by B. Alan Walton
from Contact Forum

May/June 1995

from ReptilianAgenda Website



Note: Karla Turner was a dedicated and compassionate woman who helped many abductees come to terms with their abusive alien experiences, and was not afraid to tell the truth, no matter how bizarre it might have sounded. Karla has appeared on the Montel Williams show and other programs to discuss her research. She passed away as a result of a particularly deadly form of terminal cancer.


She will be missed. Some suspect that the cancer was induced via radiation received from earlier abductions, but this cannot be confirmed. This is a rather extensive interview, so we will deal with only some of the highlights. Once you have finished reading the following you, like myself, may also become a firm advocate of "draconicide"!

- Branton



CF: You are widely regarded as one of the leading experts in the field of UFO and "alien-abduction" research. How did you get started in your study of these things?

KT: Our family knew nothing about the phenomenon when we started having UFO sightings and abduction encounters. Being a researcher, I turned to the UFO literature for an explanation. When I absorbed what was available, I found no answers that I felt were trustworthy. I decided that this was a crucial situation for my family (if not globally), and the only way I could get answers was to do the research myself.


The only way to do the research, in this case, was to go out into the field and deal with abduction cases.



CF: Was "Into the Fringe" the first result of that? [Karla's first book]

KT: Actually, "Into the Fringe" was not a result of research to gain answers. It is more of an account of my family's awakening to, and coping with, these experiences during the first year and a half, when they were very intense. It was not until after that that I started to branch out and work with other people.


I worked with Barbara Bartholic (Story of A UFO Investigator) on our case, and began working with her on other cases. Many times she would come to Texas (where I lived) and we would set up a four-or-five-day work session, during which people in that area who wanted to work with her would come to my home. She would interview them and place them under regressive hypnosis there. I began to learn by acting as her assistant.


(If Ph.D.'s were available in this field, Barbara should certainly have one. Working with her proved to be much more educational than my academic career.)


Then Barbara's caseload got so heavy that she was no longer able to handle it. It was no longer enough for me to assist, and I had to being doing preliminary investigative work myself. And that was how my involvement developed.





CF: We have been finding, in a lot of cases, that experiencers' parents, sometimes their great-grandparents have had the same types of encounters that they have. Is that what you found in your family?

KT: Yes, it is definitely "transgenerational" in Elton's family. [Elton, Dr. Turner's husband, was given the pseudonym "Casey" in the books 'Into the Fringe' and 'Taken'. They no longer feel it is necessary to protect his identity.]


Before Elton's grandmother died, in 1990 or 1991, the family knew she was near the end of her time here, so they asked her to tell some of the old stories, and videotaped her response for posterity... My mother refuses to say anything, because it is just too frightening to her. She has not yet even finished reading "Into the Fringe".


Each time she reads a page or two, she becomes so upset that she can't go any further - which tells me that there is probably a reason for her feelings. I remember that, in 1965, when I was a senior in high school, a big flap was making national news. It was one of the few times that I had ever paid attention to the UFO thing. One day, Mother and I were listening to the TV while doing something in the kitchen.


Walter Cronkite was talking about the UFO flap, and I told Mother that if a UFO landed in the backyard, I probably would go get on it. My mother, who is extremely gentle, and who never raised her voice or hit me, stopped what she was doing, grabbed me by both shoulders and shook me until I felt as if my teeth would fall out.


All the while, she was saying, forcefully,

"You swear to me, you will not ever, ever, ever get near one! Don't you dare even say that!"

It was the only outburst I have ever known my mother to have in my entire life.


I now know - from research - that extreme responses like that to this phenomenon are often indicators that a person has had experiences.




CF: You mentioned the use of hypnosis, which has been the subject of a lot of controversy. Some of the other researchers have said that people under hypnosis can come up with scenarios that did not happen, in order to please the hypnotist. Some have said that the multiple levels of experience - where one can break through screen memories and ferret out buried memories that are different - are artifacts of the process of hypnosis. What are your opinions about these issues?

KT: I think those positions are completely untenable, they grow out of what I call armchair research. I don't conceive you will find them being espoused by anyone who has actually had the experiences. If they have been through them and want to come back and talk about what happens when they undergo hypnosis, to look at what they consciously remember, then we can have a dialogue.


Right now, they are speaking without knowledge.


They are speaking hypothetically, and their opinions are based on erroneous understandings of the phenomenon, of the experiences, and of the control exerted upon abductees during these experiences. It is easy to philosophize any number of explanations, but that does not mean that those explanations have any relationship to what is really going on.


Also, there are bad hypnotists and good hypnotists.


(Note: A bad hypnosis is one who in essence takes advantage of the individuals psychological vulnerability by engaging in what amounts to 'psychological rape'. A good hypnotist will NOT violate a persons' will, or try to alter their perception of reality, or inject unsolicited post-hypnotic suggestions in the individuals mind, or attempt to make them do or believe things that they would NOT consciously accept while in a waking state. THIS is the danger of hypnosis.


While in this state, a hypnotic subject is completely at the mercy of the hypnotist. This is why a hypnotist dealing with suppressed memories must be someone WHO CAN BE ABSOLUTELY TRUSTED, and one should NEVER be "put under" unless there is at least one other trustworthy individual in the room monitoring the hypnotist. Hypnotism is serious business and should NOT be attempted by anyone who is not qualified. - Branton).


A bad hypnotist probably can foul up a number of things. I know that people who have gone to hypnotists for smoking or dietary problems have sometimes suffered more after hypnosis.


Obviously, some things can be mishandled. But my experience with hypnosis and the veracity of what is recalled has, in several cases, been proven to me to be accurate. I have been able to investigate these cases. At times erroneous material does surface, or is created because of the situation, but that is not typical. I conclude that hypnosis is, by and large, one of the most excellent tools we have.


Used properly, it may be the only tool we have to get certain pieces of information (or levels of information) back up to the conscious state. I have been able to test a number of hypnotically recalled memories against externally verifiable evidence, and they have proven to be correct.




CF: You have found, have you not, that sometimes there are multiple levels, like the layers of an onion? An experiencer undergoes hypnosis and comes up with a scenario, then, when he is regressed to a deeper level, he breaks through the first level (you find out that it was a screen memory), and a different scenario emerges.

KT: Yes, and it seems to me that, in some cases, a bottom level can be reached.

CF: How many layers are there; how deep can you go; and what's at the bottom?

KT: We have not done enough research to answer any of those questions without being an armchair philosopher. Typically (not always) the first recall deals mostly with conscious information. When the subject is taken to the next deeper level of the trance state and asked to focus, often what will be reported is that what was seen was not the same as the conscious recall.


Then a groping process begins.


The subject thinks,

"This was inaccurate; I feel that something was wrong; and when I focus, I see that it was not what I thought it was."

That is a transitional level. There may be only a couple of levels - as opposed to, say twenty levels - but there certainly is a cover level, underlain by a more solid foundation.


If the subjects are helped to program their mental computers to penetrate illusion and to speak only truthful, accurate statements, to, as Barbara has often said, "clarify vision," then they will recall radically different scenarios - not expanded versions of the firsts scenarios, but something quite different from what their conscious memories had left them with.


There are at least two levels, and possibly three.

CF: People have told us that they can break through screen memory after screen memory until they get to a scenario involving reptilians, and that is as far as they can go. Have you found that to be the case?

KT: In the few cases that I am very familiar with, when the "base line" was reached, reptilians were involved.

CF: Are the greys always involved in the top level?

KT: Sometimes the first level involves greys, sometimes humans, sometimes Pleiadians, sometimes strange animals.

CF: Abductees tell stories of seeing beings - angelic Nordics, for example - and then, when they concentrate and try to focus on their memories of those beings, they disappear, and behind them are these "lizard people."

KT: I am not familiar with a number of cases. I have heard other researchers talk about the same thing. In one case that I recount in "Into the Fringe," James had mostly conscious recollections and almost no hypnosis. He remembered being drawn into the proximity of a beautiful "Pleiadian" woman, who was very alluring and tender, and almost seductive.


She wanted him to come into her embrace. When he got into the embrace, and thought she was going to kiss him, she disappeared entirely, and what was left in her place was a purplish-black, bumpy, almost slimy-looking character with fairly asymmetrical features. I have encountered this same type of creature in a couple of other cases. The entity was very strong. Instead of embracing James, the creature threw him down on the ground and shoved a two-foot-long tube down his throat, into his stomach, and pulled up stomach juices.


The next day, he still had some of the bile taste, the interior of his throat was sore, and he discovered claw marks around both sides of his neck, where he had been held down. Whatever the entity was, there was something claw-like about it (which, of course, matches reptilians). Maybe, as close as he was to it, he could not perceive the whole figure.


But he could see a bumpy covering, which could equate to the rough, scaly exterior sometimes reported to be reptilian. It is described as bumpy, ridged, bony, strong, clawed.

CF: Apparently these beings have the ability to project different images.

KT: Some people say that they transform - that they mutate or change their own real forms. I don't accept that as accurate. I don't believe they really look like a blond, and they do something to trick you and then they suddenly look like a reptilian. I think that what they alter is human perception.


They certainly can project false images - just as Ted's [Ted Rice's] grandmother was shown her dead husband, so that she would consent to have a sexual encounter. Ted's grandfather had been dead for six years. And in the middle of having the encounter with what she thought was her restored husband, the image disappeared - I suppose because the aliens wanted to get the "emotional juice" from her - and she saw a 'reptoid' on top of her. We also have heard stories about military people being present during abduction, and when people focus on them, they change.


Budd Hopkins tells a story about a person who saw a military policeman. He wondered why on Earth the MP was there, and tried to focus very carefully on him. When he did so, the MP changed, before his eyes, into an officer of high rank, and then into a NAZI officer.


(Note: Under regressive hypnosis Barney Hill - who along with his wife Betty claimed to have been abducted by reptilian 'grays' from Zeta Reticuli - also reported seeing a "German Nazi" military officer on the craft, working with the aliens. This is suggestive that the CIA more-or-less inherited the alien collaboration agenda that was initiated by the 'Baverians' in or around 1933. - Branton)


The aliens cannot allow us to be involved with them in our normal state of mind because we would be under our own control, and that is not what they desire.




Further statements from Karla Turner by subject



"...She was told, 'If you don't cooperate, we'll replace you with this and nobody will know the difference.' When Ted was a teenage, he and a number of other teenagers were abducted together and shown copies of their bodies. In this instance, too, the clones were used as threats."


(Note: The cloning of lambs and monkeys is a documented FACT in our society, so it is not beyond the limits of possibility to suggest that a hi-tech alien culture might, unfortunately, succeed at cloning human beings. - Branton)

"Ted recalled a process whereby his original body was killed. They first gave him a glowing, green, fiery substance to drink. It made him extremely nauseated. He vomited it immediately, and then they cut off his head [and his vital fluid was drained from his body into a container]. When his soul energy - or whatever you want to call it - came up out of his body, it remained attached to the body at this lumpy, glowing, green liquid area. It appeared to be unable to get free of that.


They sucked it into a little black box, which was set on a counter while the aliens readied his new cloned body. Then they put probes into the shoulders, neck and feet of the new body to activate it. Once it began to breathe, the soul energy could be put into it.


His soul energy, which had been stored in the little black box ever since they killed his first body, was introduced into the new body, and because the body was breathing, it was trapped there."

(Note: During this abduction Ted encountered two other 'clones', a young boy and a girl. This took place inside a MASSIVE space station, dark green in color with 'spikes' reaching out of it like one might see on a old World War II floating 'mine'. Smaller ships would enter and exit via these 'tube' extensions.


He only encountered a few humanoids on board the massive ship, a red-haired women with little or no emotional expression, a dark haired hybrid type 'man' with a malevolent disposition, and a 'kind' man with short blond hair who attempted to nullify his apprehensions throughout it all.


Although there were some 'Bigfoot' type people, some dwarfish hairy humanoids, large 'Mantis-like' insectoids with remarkably 'human-like' facial features, and numerous bizarre or grotesque beings which seemed to be genetic hybrids composed of both human-like and animal-like features within this massive station, the greater majority of the aliens were of the common reptilian-insectoid 'Grey' variety. - Branton)




"Evidently, a body that has had soul energy in it - one that absorbs certain kinds of emotional energy - is more nutritious than a 'flat' body that has not been through life processes. Let's say that, at eight or nine years old, you have lived some already, and you have some emotional storage going on already.


If they kill your nutritionally 'yummy' body for their use and put your soul material into a cloned body that has not had life experience, then they can let you go through several more years in that body and build up emotional energy in it. Then it will be ready for them to eat, and they can continue the process again, many times."

(Note: The reason the reptilians feed off of human vital fluids in a vampirial-parasitic manner, it seems, is because they are in symbiotic relationship with astral parasites which use the reptilian bodies as 'hosts'. The astral parasites have absolutely no connection to the Creator or the Divine, who is the source of the essence of all life force/manna energy, and so they exist in an anti-life field/state and must steal life force second hand, much like a black hole or a sink hole or wallstreet or a cancer tumor vampirizes everything around them to feed their insatiable hunger... in so doing they grow ever larger and deformed, moreso than God or nature intended, and therefore 'require' ever more energy, which is usually stolen from the weak and defenseless. In a sense, these kinds of symbiotic aliens operate as individual cancer cells within a collective alien 'tumor', and they should be dealt with accordingly!!! - Branton)





"Abductees are put through other kinds of programming and compulsions. The only commonalty that I can see in all of them, so far, is that they all cause great upheaval and produce great amounts of emotional energy. And maybe tastier bodies. But certainly immediate energy production."



"Personally, I believe one could control political leaders more easily with implants. Now, if they wanted to use one of their own souls (although some would debate whether these reptilians have souls at all, other than the astral entities possessing them - Branton), perhaps to inhabit the body of a politicians and work full-time through it, that could be done.


Perhaps they could simply take the soul out and stick another soul in. They have the ability to retrieve what we call the soul, to store it in a container, and to put it back into another body. They can put it in any body they wish."



"I do accept there are intelligent forces that can contact and inform us - perhaps to help us help ourselves."

(Note: Contactee Alex Collier says that there are. He was told by his alleged friends' from Zenatae Andromeda - who like most federated human-occupied worlds are descended from the ancient Lyran-Terran alliance in the times of Lemuria and Atlantis, to which most if not all human-like ETs can trace their ancestries - that three federated carrier ships, Andromedan, Pleiadean and Tau Cetian, had intercepted a huge Dow-Gray alien carrier ship that had emerged from the ocean floor and was trying to skip-planet with a load of hybrids, human children in cryogenic freeze, and literally thousands of human 'souls' that had been 'harvested' and which were discovered trapped-contained WITHIN SMALL ELECTROMAGNETIC BOXES, apparently to be used as ectoplasmic energy sources by the aliens.


So we may very well have friends out there, which is probably why some reptilian ETs [for instance the 'greens' and the 'greys' within the Dulce - Los Alamos - Kirtland AFB megabase that are working with the 'OMEGA AGENCY'] insist that there are no 'nordic' or 'human federation' ETs out there. Of course the LAST thing these dracs desire is for us Terrans to join up with these federated human starfarers, especially in an alliance AGAINST their reptilian collective. - Branton)



"Abductees report seeing other humans in these facilities being drained of blood, being mutilated, flayed, and dismembered, and being stacked, lifeless, like cords of wood. Some abductees have been threatened that they, too, will end up in this condition if they don't cooperate with their alien captors."

(Note: We've had "Operation DESERT Storm"... anyone for "Operation DUNGEON Storm"!? - Branton)



"Aliens come into homes and temporarily remove young children, leaving their distraught parents paralyzed and helpless. In cases where a parent has been able to protest, the aliens insist that 'The children belong to us.'"



"Aliens have forced their human abductees to have sexual intercourse with aliens and even with other abductees while groups of aliens observe these performances. In such encounters, the aliens have sometimes disguised themselves in order to gain the cooperation of the abductee, appearing in such forms as Jesus, the Pope, certain celebrities, and even the dead spouses of the abductees."



"Children abductees sometimes show a new and obsessive interest in their own genitalia after alien encounters, saying that their abductors who come at night have been touching these parts of their bodies."



"Aliens perform extremely painful experiments or procedures on abductees, saying that these acts are necessary but giving no explanation why. Abductees' eyes are painfully removed from the sockets, allowing the aliens to scrape the area or implant devices into the area before the eyeballs are replaced, for instance.


Some abductees are subjected to painful constrictions, often around the head, chest and extremities. Painful genitalia and anal probes are performed, on children as well as adults."



"Aliens make predictions of an imminent period of global chaos and destruction. They say that a certain number of humans - and the number varies dramatically from case to case - will be 'rescued' from the planet in order to continue the species, either on another planet or back on earth after the destruction is over.


Many abductees report that they don't believe their alien captors and foresee instead a much more sinister use of the 'rescued' humans."

(Note: This reminds me of the vision/dream one man related of a mass alien landing and 'harvest' amidst global chaos, with aliens encouraging humans to board their craft so as to escape to a better place, however in the vision/dream this man had the distinct impression that those who boarded these craft would be entering a living hell... Satan's rapture? - Branton)



"In every instance from this list, there are multiple reports from unrelated cases, confirming that such bizarre details are not the product of a single deranged mind. These details are convincing evidence that, contrary to the claims of many UFO researchers, the abduction experience isn't limited to a uniform pattern of events.


This phenomenon simply can't be explained [exclusively] in terms of cross-breeding experiments or scientific research into the human physiology."



"And it becomes clear from these details that the beings who are doing such things can't be seen as spiritually enlightened, with the best interest of the human race in mind. Something else is going on, something far more painful and frightening, in many, many abduction encounters.


There is a theory current in ufological research that says abductees who perceive their experiences in a negative way only do so because they themselves aren't spiritually or psychically advanced.


Persons with higher cosmic development have positive alien encounters, so the theory goes, and those who have painful or frightening experiences are merely spiritual Neanderthals. This is a pet theory of researchers who claim that aliens, whether objectively real or not, serve as 'mirrors' of our spiritual nature, on an individual or a species-wide basis.


Streiber has voiced this theory, for instance, in Majestic, where he says, 'In the eyes of the others [the aliens], we who met them saw ourselves. And there were demons there'.

(Note: On one segment of the STRANGE UNIVERSE TV show, Whitley Streiber commented on a reputed video-tape of a military interrogation of a reptilian 'grey' alien at Area-51. Streiber showed extreme rage and stated in essence that he was astonished that one of these "wonderful people" could be in such a situation, and that the interrogation was "one of the most evil" acts in human history.


Streiber did relate time and time again in his writings about the absolute stark terror and evil he encountered in relation to the aliens. He also stated in essence that the terror and pain consumed him to the degree that he felt that the 'old' Whitley disappeared and something else took its place. Could it be that 'Whitley Streiber' is no longer home, in a certain sense, and that the 'person' who reacted to the video was NOT exactly the same 'Whitley' who resided there before his major abduction experiences began?


The use of pain, torture and terror is a common and well known means of mind-control and mental fragmentation among 'insiders'. In the throes of pain and emotional intensity or even sexual stimulation it is easy to induce hypnotic programming or even an alternate or "alter" personality within a mind-controlled subject. - Branton).

Having worked with so many decent, honest, positively oriented abductees, however, I believe this theory is wrong. It is worse than wrong - it is despicable, as despicable as blaming a rape victim for the violence committed against her.


This attitude [that they have negative experiences because they are not spiritually developed enough] leaves many abductees feeling doubly violated, first by the aliens who took them and then by the UFO researchers to whom they turn for explanations and help. But it is easy to understand why such a theory would be so popular. Humans have a deep need to believe in the power of good. We need for the aliens to be a good force, since we feel so helpless in their presence.


And we need for some superior force to offer us a hope of salvation, both personally and globally, when we consider the sorry state of the world. I think the aliens know this about us - they know that we want and hope for them to be benevolent creatures - and they USE our desire for goodness to manipulate us. What better way to gain our cooperation than to tell us that the things they are doing are for our own good? But looking at the actions, the results of alien interference such as the long list above.


There is a great discrepancy between what we desire from them and what they are doing to us."



"Not all abduction reports are filled with frightening or painful events, of course. Many people say that their alien encounters felt benevolent, that their ABDUCTORS treated them kindly or at least with a scientific detachment.


Some abductees recall being told that they were 'special,' that they were 'chosen,' and that they have an important task to perform for the benefit of humanity. Given such a positive message, the abductees may ignore the fear and the pain of their encounters and insist to themselves and to others that a higher motive underlies the abduction experience.


And, in some cases, all that an abductee REMEMBERS is a benevolent encounter and so has no reason to assume any negative action has occurred."



"Intensive research shows that at the core of the human-alien interaction there is a clear pattern of DECEPTION. We know, for instance, that "screen memories" are often used to mask an alien abduction. Such accounts abound, in which a person sees a familiar yet out-of-place animal, like a deer or owl, a monkey or a rabbit, and then experiences a period of missing time.


The person often awakens later to find a new, unexplained scar on his body. Uneasiness about the encounter will persist, however, and far different memories may start to surface in dreams or flashbacks, and then the person seeks help to explain the uneasiness. Quite often, hypnotic regression is used to uncover the events behind the "screen memory," and that is when a typical alien abduction surfaces.


The most recent research in which I've been involved has turned up yet a second sort of screening process. If it turns out to be accurate, then thousands of abduction cases are in urgent need of re-examination. The typical scenario of undergoing the regressive hypnosis usually results in penetration of the initial blocked memories.


The abductee then recalls an encounter, hitherto unremembered, such as undergoing a physical examination of some sort, perhaps having body tissues removed or having a gynecological exam. Other typical reports include the taking of sperm and ova, of being told of an important task to be carried out, or of receiving a warning of upcoming disaster. And in most cases, both the abductee and the investigator come away from the hypnosis session feeling that they have discovered the truth about the experience.


Rationalization leads them to believe that the aliens' purposes must be scientifically objective or benevolent. The less threatening and more benevolent the hypnotically recalled event seems, the more satisfied are the investigator and the abductee.

"That wasn't so bad, now, was it? These beings are our friends, or at least they are not our enemies."

And everyone goes away with a sense of relief. I have yet to hear of a researcher who actually questions the uncovered scenario. But from several recent cases, it is apparent that these recovered memories may well also be yet another screen, masking events that are much more reprehensible.


I will explain one such case, to make the point clear."



"A man in his late 40's came to us to explore several alien-related events in his life, and in the interview he told of a strange, although not apparently alien-oriented, episode that had haunted him since childhood. When he was ten years old, his grandmother came to visit in his home, and since the house was small, she shared his bed on the first night of her visit.


During the night, the boy was awakened by a loud male voice. He couldn't understand what the voice was saying, but it sounded angry and was addressing the grandmother lying beside him.


The next morning, he asked his grandmother,

"What was that voice in the bedroom last night?"

His grandmother, with tears in her eyes, pulled him tightly to her and said,

"That was the devil."

She said nothing more about the episode, but she did insist that her son take her back to her own home immediately. It was an unreasonable request, and her son tried to talk her out of it. But the grandmother was adamant, and finally her son agreed to take her home the following day.


The entire family made the trip of over a hundred miles back to the grandmother's farm, and within an hour of their arrival, the grandmother suffered a massive stroke and died. Ever since that event, the man had felt a heavy burden of guilt associated with his grandmother's death. Yet there was no conscious reason for him to have felt that way.


The entire event was poignant and mystifying, but in all the alien encounters he had subsequently undergone, he had felt that the aliens were his friends and were helping him by expanding his psychic abilities."

[Interview continued. In response to a question about the 'psychic vampire' nature of the aliens, Karla states]:

KT: ...Yes. Now you are getting to why may be the crux of the 'harvest.' That may be that they not only need emotional energy, but also at least one faction [and I would be tempted, if I were to guess, that they would be reptoids] actually uses the physical bodies. They are trying hard to get us detached from our bodies by telling us that they are "only containers."


Why? Because they eat our bodies. If a cow knew you were going to eat it, you would want to tell that cow [if they could understand], "Your body is not important. It doesn't matter."

[In response to a question about the spiritual nature of the Greys and the Reptiloids]:

KT: I think it is something to think about. I don't believe the grays have souls, but are more like 'Frankensteins' or 'zombies' or whatever term you want to use for the "living dead." When I have been with them, I have had an overwhelming feeling that they are not alive - that they are dead.


(Note: Or... as investigator Val Valerian puts it, they have an "anti-life" field. - Branton)

Dr. Gregory L. Little has added the following in regards to Karla Turner's experiences:

Karla told of walking into her home at night when a being grabbed hold of her arm. The creature told her it was her mother, but Karla stated that it looked like a giant grasshopper.


Another time, Karla was coming home through her back yard when she felt like she,

"...had hit an electric fence. I wasn't feeling right...wasn't moving right ...there was a glow everywhere...I stopped...and saw four gray beings standing side by side in my backyard. I assumed I was having a hallucination (but) I'm awake - why? I felt I could see through them and they talked to me telepathically.


"'Greetings, we are your ancestors,' they said. 'We are a part of you, but we are real.'

"I couldn't move as I normally do," Karla continued. "Then two females behind me came up close - they started buzzing."

"'They are giving you some instructions,' they told me."

Karla and Casey [her husband] have become involved with a variety of MUFON investigators since the uncovering of their memories as well as conducting a variety of their own investigations. They have somewhat specialized in sexual abductions and been influenced by the popular books Intruders, Missing Time, and others...

The 'modern' aliens associated with sexual abductions now appear to fall into three broad categories. The traditional grays are nearly always present. Male grays seldom engage in intercourse, but some female grays do. The grays often connect bizarre devices to the sex organs of abductees and insert needles in an apparent attempt to collect sperm and ovum samples.


Then there are the more sinister creatures described as reptilian, grasshopper-like, or mantis-like.


These creatures, whose sexual organs are described as ice cold, often have intercourse with humans. Finally, there are creatures that, except for their dress, would be indistinguishable from humans. They are sometimes described as Nordic in appearance - tall blondes with blue eyes.


These abductors have, at times, had intercourse with abductees.

(Note: At this point, Dr. Little attempts to bridge the gap between the technological and metaphysical aspects of the UFO phenomena by revealing the direct links between many modern UFO encounters and ancient encounters with incubi, succubi, faeries, elementals and other deamon-like supernatural beings and the many similarities between these ancient 'demonic' abductions and the modern 'alien' abductions.


Since the 1950's, UFOlogists have engaged in MAJOR disputes over whether the 'aliens' are supernatural beings or physical beings. Sometimes these disputes have been so divisive that one might think the aliens themselves were engaged in some type of 'divide and conquer' strategy to keep people from finding the truth. The fact is, most UFO encounters STRONGLY suggest that the beings involved ARE physical beings, yet at the same time they are CHANNELS for other supernatural forces that are seemingly possessing and controlling the physical hosts.


These exterran-quanterran-subterran aliens might be referred to as techno-sorcerers. In other words - although most would be appalled at even the thought of it - it would seem that 'demons', if you will, have somehow managed to incarnate within a group of PHYSICAL beings to the point where they could have absolute control of these beings and in essence attain physical 'bodies' through which they could manipulate third dimensional material reality.


This would involve the terrifying prospect that demons who have attained 'physical bodies' might in turn work to prepare more bodies for their discarnate comrades, so that these too could engage in technological-psychological-supernatural warfare against mankind and attack our physical-mental-spiritual natures simultaneously. If God is Infinite, which I firmly believe, then no matter how much of a threat these "repti-geists" become, IF WE BELIEVE, we can counter that threat and more!


If one were viewing the alien phenomena from an eschatological perspective one might correctly think that this would all involve some ancient Luciferian agenda to 're-conquer' the heavens, if the 'aliens' possess interplanetary or interstellar travel technologies [see: Revelation chapter 12].


In the case of the 'reptilians', the Edenic drama of Genesis chapter 3 may have been repeating itself over and over again since ancient times, with the Luciferians [poltergeists] incarnating the Reptilian Greys [serpents] and deceiving mankind [the serpent's lies] into accepting their occult technology [forbidden fruit] which would give the 'elite' godlike powers over their fellow man ["ye shall be as gods"]... with fallen elements from all three creations - angelic, human, and beast - collaborating together within underground bases like Dulce, which are layed-out in an unusual tree-like manner [the tree of knowledge, or the tree of 'da-ath' - i.e. 'cunning' in the original Hebrew], where these fallen beings conspire together against God Almighty and his plan for perfect order and equality. - Branton)


"Just like modern UFO abductors do, demons have long been collecting sperm samples from male victims. According to the ancient reports, the succubus gathers semen from the male victims so that the demon can fully perform the sex act and sometimes impregnate its female victim when acting as an incubus.


In Thomas Aquinas' 13th century book Summa Theologica he wrote:

"'...if sometimes children are born from intercourse with demons, this is not because of the semen emitted by them, or from the bodies they have assumed, but through the semen taken from some man for this purpose, seeing that the same demon who acts as a succubus for a man becomes an incubus for a woman.'"

"...For several thousand years there have been reports of alien abduction for sexual purposes. Because of the number of reports coming from early church members, much attention was given the phenomenon during the 1200s and 1300s. Here are a few summaries by the church from this time period:

"De Trinitate:

'Devils do indeed collect human semen...therefore devils can transfer the semen which they have collected and inject it into the bodies of others.'

"Bonaventura wrote:

'Devils in the form of women yield to males and receive their semen; by cunning skill, the demons preserve its potency, and afterwards,...they become incubi and pour it into female repositories.'

"Just as in modern UFO reports, the incubus desiring to have sex with a human will adjust its shape to one that lowers resistance of its victim. In 1698 Johann Klein reported on a court case where a woman claimed to have been impregnated by her long-gone husband. A creature taking his form appeared to her at night in her bedroom where she simply couldn't resist. Many other victims of an incubus claimed that the incubus appeared to them as a person (deceased) they knew and loved.

[So then, might not the above - that is, various levels of interaction between demons and 'Dracos' or other 'engineered' physical forms - explain the various unusual, although morbid, encounters that have been reported by abductees, such as the following incident that the late Karla Turner reported, as paraphrased by Greg Little?]:

Karla told a story about a grandmother with her young grandson. The grandmother had been a widow for several years when she was forced to drink a liquid handed to her by an alien who appeared in her bedroom late one night.

After she drank the thick fluid, she became young again.


A reptilian-like alien then attempted to have intercourse with her but she resisted. Then the alien brought in her 'dead husband' who began making sexual advances to her. The grandmother had intercourse with the creature that appeared as her husband, but eventually saw that it was a reptilian.


After finishing with the grandmother, the reptilians had anal and oral intercourse with her young grandson...

(Note: Now you can begin to see why I am a firm advocate of 'draconicide'. Sure, if it comes down to all-out war, UNCONDITIONAL surrender should first be offered to the reptilian nemesis, however if they refuse, dracocide should be carried out to the fullest against these alien 'cancer cells'.


Trying to negotiate a truce with creatures that have NEVER honored a truce - at least there has never been any evidence forthcoming that these creatures of the 'Draconian Hive' have done so - is nothing less than suicide, for as their cousins of old, these dragon-people demand human sacrifices as part of any negotiation, whether it be in the form of a government turning a blind eye to human 'abductions', or an ancient king in the times of Camelot sacrificing virgins to appease the creatures of chaos who plagued their kingdoms.


Perhaps these ancient tales have a lesson for us, namely that the only way to negotiate with such tumorous creatures is with the point of the sword and the lance. Whether the stories of the ancient dragon-slayers are literal or symbolic, they nevertheless contain valuable truths in either case... as we can see from the following account of St. George, as recorded in the TIME-LIFE series, 'THE ENCHANTED WORLD' - Branton):


"...In an age abrim with valiant deeds, dragon fighters - men and women who vanquished the mighty beasts one by one - established an unmatched standard of courage. And among that glorious company of warriors, Saint George was the nonpareil. Clad in silver armor, riding a horse caparisoned in gold and always displaying the sign of the Christians - a red cross on a white field - he galloped through the stories and songs of the European lands, the harbinger of Christianity and its civilizing order, and the hammer of the dragon race. The fame of this soldier-saint was such that for centuries after his death, he was claimed as the protector of England, Catalonia, Aragon, Italy and Greece, and revered in such diverse parts of Lithuania, Portugal and Constantinople.

"In England, his feast day, April 23, was a national holiday, celebrated with splendid processions, with pageants and plays. And England's highest honor, the Order of the Garter, was established in his name.

"Saint George was the patron of all who had to do with battle - knights, archers, saddlemakers and swordsmiths...

"Yet who was he? Few knew, for a panoply of legends shone around him: He was said to have slain dragons at Mansfeld in the center of Germany; he was also said to have killed a dragon in England, in Berkshire, where the people pointed to a place called Dragon Hill, made grassless and barren by the venomous blood of his (St. George's) victim. Yet the first account of Saint George's slaying of a dragon is set not in Europe at all, but far south, in Africa...

"It was a savage dragon, sprung from somewhere in the bleak hills that divided the fertile coastal plains from the desert, and it settled in a marsh not far from the walls of the city.

"The evidence of this presence appeared only gradually. Mangled carcasses of sheep and cattle were occasionally found in remote pastures; from time to time, also, the bloated corpses of travelers and shepherds were seen lying at the edge of the desert. Then the deaths began to happen closer to home, near the villages and hamlets that lay on the outskirts of the city. Children died, and the cows in their byres and the sheep in their pens. In Silene, whispers began. The curfew was rung early in the evenings, and the great gates were closed. Few people were so reckless as to stay outside the walls at night.

"The dragon was thus deprived of easy game. But when it struck Silene, it came in broad daylight. A watchman at the gate felt the ground shudder; he squinted into the distance and saw the sloughing beast, its scales shining in the African sun, trails of smoke curling around its head, and he gave the alarm. The gates were closed and barricaded. People crowded the walls as the armored serpent approached - on massive legs tipped with curving claws.

"The dragon did nor attack at once. It slithered along the base of the walls, nosing at crevices, trying its strength on the gates. The gates held, however. High on the walls, the watching people of the city stirred and sighed. But then, the dragon threw back its head and howled. A spurt of foul-smelling, flaming liquid shot from the cruel mouth, snaked up the walls and poured over the battlements. The citizens who had gathered there were bathed in the caustic liquid. Writhing and screaming, they fell from the walls. The dragon devoured them on the spot.

"That was the beginning of a time of terror. The (Libyan) city was besieged: Every day the dragon clawed at the gate and spewed its noxious venom over the ramparts. Outside the walls, the villages were silent and the fields untended; all the farmers had fled or been killed by the beast. Inside the city, people kept to their houses. The streets were empty, the markets vacant, the squares deserted. And no one ventured forth in an attempt to slay the creature, for its poison killed agonizingly and quickly. Sword and lance were useless against it.

"Casting about for a means of appeasement, the king who ruled Silene decreed that two sheep be tied up outside the walls as a daily offering. The tactic seemed to work at first. Each day at dawn, soldiers led the sheep to a stake outside the gates and tied them there. The men then, retraced and stood shivering behind the ramparts with the rest of the citizenry as the dragon claimed its gift with a horrible crunching of bones and smacking of lips. Well-fed, the beast left Silene alone. But the day came when the city had no more sheep to offer, and the dragon began to circle the walls ceaselessly, spitting its deadly venom at any living target.

"And thus began the lottery. Every day in the chill hour before down, the people of Silene gathered in the square before the King's palace. From a great brass urn, they drew ivory counters that in happier times had been used for gambling. But this gamble was desperate, for the one who lost by drawing a marked counter was condemned to die so that the rest of the citizens might live one more day. Wailing and lamentation arose in the dusty square as the victims name was revealed. The person was tied to the stake outside the gates, just as the sheep had been, and died no less cruelly.

"One morning, the marked counter fell to the daughter of Silene's King. The crowd - now much reduced by daily sacrifice - moved away from the ruler and his child. The King stood motionless, a man turned to stone. He shook his head from side to side, and tears coursed down his face. But when the people began to murmur, he bowed in assent, and two of his guards moved toward the Princess.

"They led her into the palace, and there her maidens clothed her all in white, as if to meet a bridegroom. Then they took her through the quiet streets, out to the slaughter ground. In the charred and bloodied landscape, among the bleaching bones of earlier victims, the soldiers bound her to the stake and left her to die.

"But while the beast still slept in its lair, a man on horseback appeared on the eastern horizon, just ahead of the rising sun. Its rays struck his silver armor and formed a nimbus of light around his body as he rode toward the Princess, across the withered and treeless fields where no birds sang to greet the day. He was George, a Roman knight - BUT a Christian, as the red crosses on his sword belt showed. He was riding abroad in search of adventure, and he had come to the place of his trial. He drew rein beside the Princess and bent from his saddle to hear her tale.

"The Princess begged the knight to leave her to her death. He only laughed - a strong and joyous sound in that place - and wheeled his horse towards the dragon's den. The hoofbeats roused the beast, and it sprang screaming from its lair, head thrown back to spit venom and fire. But the knight was upon it before it could draw breath. As it reared to strike, his lance pierced its side, and the poison from its jaws trickled harmlessly to the ground. The knight moved in for the kill.

"How the dragon died is a matter of debate. That the knight killed it, all chronicles grant. But some accounts say that he gave the death blow on the spot, while others declare that he cut the sign of the Cross into the wounded creature's belly and led the dragon back into Silene. There he demanded as payment the conversion of the people to Christianity, and when the religion was accepted, he struck off the dragon's head. It was said, too, that the Princess became the bride of her rescuer..."




In tortured lands, where cowards cry
And fall along the road to die
A man must live the way of right
Pure and chaste, with Godly might

For lesser men will live not long
But in a wisp of smoke, be gone
For lesser men do not but cower
When they contend with dragon power

Then what will be of maidens fair
If heroes die in dragon's lair?
And where will all the children play
If thundering wings chase them away?

Here the dragons rule the sky
And search the earth with evil eye
To foist upon the sons of man
Their vile intent and wicked plan

Then, in their reptilian glee
Into their earthen holes they flee
With naught of guilt or recompense
To eat their captive audience

In such a land, where man doth roam
And plow the earth to make a home
It takes a man of Godly faith
Who fights with supernatural strength

Whose armor 'gainst each foe defends
Whose shield each arrow's fall portends
A man who'll spit at evil's taint
Who'll not back down, nor weary, faint

A man who's steed will battle brave
And hold his foot in deepest cave
He’ll never for his life take care
And run not from the dragon's stare

Such man, who's deemed a Saintly Knight
Would storm the dark to bring the light
He'll not retreat from scorching flame
But quench the fire in God's Own Name

Of such a man the bards will sing
A man of fate who would be king
If such a man your mirror sees
Then come, for Here There Dragons Be
-- Donald P. Harris