K: So, Gordon, you are a very, letís
say, notorious individual...
K: ...and we are incredibly pleased to be able to interview you today.
And youíve got an incredible project that weíre not going to talk about at
all, I donít think. But youíve certainly got... Youíve certainly raised
our curiosity and our admiration by the amazing amount of work youíre
going into, to actually... can I say? Bring
free energy to the planet?
K: OK. Tell me a little bit about who you are, for people that have
never heard... I know itís hard to believe, but... have never heard of
G: Well, I donít know how to... My name is Gordon Novel. I have been
involved in things like Watergate, and JFKís assassination, and the
DeLorean drama, and Waco, and others that would be better not mentioned
that were more intelligence oriented, or foreign intelligence oriented,
so I kind of stay away from talking about that.
G: And I have never worked for the CIA.
G: Iím not a CIA agent. Iím affiliated, I work with, and we have a
mutual admiration society based upon my relationship with the
individuals I work with.
K: OK. And can you name...
G: But I donít work for them.
K: ...those individuals or not?
G: Uh. Iíd prefer not to at this time. I think it would be a better idea
not to mention them. Theyíre known but, thereís no... I donít need the
ego-trip of that association.
K: OK. And right now you actually have a project that youíre coming to
Hollywood to, ah... a movie. Thatís OK to say, right?
G: Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Weíre doing a trilogy... a project on a trilogy of
films called Kingdoms Come with my co-producer Doug Ivanovitch and weíre
currently in the process of funding the project in the hundreds of
millions of dollar level.
K: OK. And is it correct that the CIA is actually backing your other
project? Is that something you want to say?
G: Well, they... theyíre interested in supporting and endorsing a number
of things that Iím doing because they are capable of changing things
like global warming and getting rid of global warming, and getting rid
of the chaotic conditions of our current New World Order and that kind
of thing. Getting rid of the murder and mayhem that goes on on the
K: OK. And this is, now, would you say, the good side of the CIA? There
K: ...than one side of the CIA, is there not?
G: The CIA has multiple sides but itís been my experience over the years
that theyíre basically the only good guys in the entire United States
government. Theyíre really patriots. Most of them are patriots and Iíve
never known... I personally have never known them to do anything
criminal, ever. And they didnít kill John Kennedy and they didnít kill a
lot of people that theyíve been accused of causing the death of but I
donít know that to be true. So I can tell you that my experience with
them has been like dealing with Eagle Scouts.
K: OK. How long have you been dealing with them?
G: Since about age 20.
On the death of the Kennedys
K: Did you have anything to do with the death of Robert Kennedy or Jack
G: No, absolutely not. All that...
K: Now why do people think that you did?
G: Because I was... first became... I was working at the White House and
then on a counter-intelligence project that was kind of important. And... I got referenced over to Garrison and he made me his chief of
security. And I discovered that he was fabricating evidence. And he
found out that Iíd discovered that and he turned it over to NBC. So he
decided that the best way was to make me his most important material
witness. And he wasnít accusing me of a crime, but it cost me a lot of
grief and a lot of people thought I was involved, which I wasnít. Never
was involved in that. I have...
K: OK. And...
G: ...one of the best alibis in the world. [chuckles]
K: And you actually... You have a lot of feeling, or sympatico, isnít
that true, with what Kennedy stood for?
G: Yeah. I was in favor of
his revelations that were apparently about to
happen having to do with extraterrestrial technologies. And I think that
they kept him in the dark on a lot of stuff and it was one of the
reasons that motivated him to want to go to the moon. So I was very pro
John F. Kennedy.
K: OK. And...
G: Very pro.
K: Very pro.
K: Uh huh. And what about Robert Kennedy?
G: I was personally affiliated with the Attorney General during
the Garrison thing and afterwards, uh, when he ran for President. And my
only feeling about him is that he probably helped precipitate a lot of
the problems that caused the assassination of his brother...
K: OK. So...
G: ...by chasing the Mafia, for example.
K: Uh huh?
G: The Mafia supported his brotherís election, substantively, and they
got very angry at him, along with folks like the ex-Gehlen Org....
Gehlen Organization of the Nazis and other people like that, that were
out to... and Majestic, I might add...
G: ...were really all out to get him and didnít want him to, to do...
K: So Majestic was around back then.
Robert Kennedy was assassinated by a Manchurian
K: And did they have something to do with the death of Robert Kennedy?
G: I donít think that they had anything to do with the death of Robert
Kennedy. Robert Kennedy was murdered by assassination. It was a
Manchurian candidate type of thing and I donít know who engineered it.
But Iíve never, ever, known an individual at the CIA to ever indicate to
me that they were part of any plot. And Iíve known a lot of them,
K: And what about John Kennedy? Was that a Manchurian candidate as well?
John Kennedyís assassin was a ďpatsyĒ...
G: Uh... Nah, I think it was just a patsy. Oswald was picked for his
role in maybe one of a dozen plots that were being hatched off at the
time and he just happened to be in the right place at the right time to
get the ... to pin the tail on the donkey.
K: OK. So how many shots were fired? [smiles]
G: Well, I mean, you can... as near as I can hear there were, like,
three or four. So, you know, I donít believe that he did it, that
anybody could have done that the way they claim he did it. And I
couldnít do it and I donít know anybody that could do it. And so I donít
believe it. I donít believe the Mannlicher-Carcano did the deed. It may
have well been used in the deed, but did it actually cause the death?
Iím not sure what did it. It could have been frangible bullets coming
from somewhere else up on the grassy knoll.
K: Uh huh. And did you think that, I guess, Lyndon Johnson, or anyone
else, had a hand in it?
G: If they did, they certainly kept it away from me Ďcause I was working
with the Chief of Staff at the White House at the time. When the
Garrison thing came down I was working with the Chief of Staff and I
never knew any involvement by the Chief of Staff or Mr. Johnson, and I
was very friendly with both of them.
K: Uh huh.
G: The answer is, I donít think that... I think they were... that they
were just down the pecking order of power that runs the world and they
just happened to be conveniently in the places where they were at the
K: OK. So, well, as far as Majestic, or the Illuminati, or the
Bilderbergs or the
G: The Gehlen Org. The Gehlen Org.
K: The "Gehlen..."
The Illuminati and the Gehlen Org
G: Yeah... there was a German SS officer by the name of Gehlen who had a
continuing organization that continued on past World War Two that was
substantively involved in lots of nasty stuff. And still is today.
K: OK. And are they set up in this country?
G: Theyíre set up all over the world but they mostly answer, if not to
the Illuminati... thatís the only place I know that they answer to
anybody. Most people all answer to the Illuminati if thereís any power
in any country.
K: What about
Majestic? Do they get along with the Illuminati?
G: According to my information, Majestic and the Illuminati are not
seeing eye to eye over the idea of triaging the population of the planet
in order to bring the population down to a workable level where itís
safe to have life. Weíre approaching a very high number, around seven
billion people, and they would like to triage a bunch of the population.
And Majestic, which is mostly US military people and some other
foreigners, donít want to see that. Theyíre not in favor of
assassination by AIDS, viruses, and stuff like that.
K: So this is a good side to the Majestic-12.
G: Itís the only good side I know of.
K: OK. [laugh] Because I know youíre not real friendly with them.
G: I am friendly with a couple of the members of it, but Iím not
friendly with their program to destabilize some of my businesses.
G: They were very nasty last year and we almost ended up whacking each
other and it didnít happen because of a CIA safe house agreement that
protected me and saved my life, actually. So Iím very, very, very
indebted to the CIA.
K: So, what can you tell us about why you donít get along with Majestic?
Like, what is it that puts you guys at odds?
K: Or even, maybe thisíll tell us why the CIA doesnít get along with
Majestic and the CIA
G: We sort of expropriated their
technologies from the aliens and weíre
not giving it back and weíre just...
K: You personally...
G: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We got very lucky back about 17, 18 years ago and
we got our hands on the technology, and worked to reverse engineer it
and pretty much figured it out. At which point we began to figure out
everything that they were doing.
So they donít like the fact that I have
that and I have put up a protective wall that they canít beat. So. They... killing me is just going to cause it to go all over the web. So the
CD-ROMs are all packaged real well against that eventuality.
hope I never have a heart attack.
K: OK. So you set that up so youíre protected.
G: Yeah. I have a lot of friends in foreign countries who have copies of
the CD-ROM which is basically a green mail, one-on-one type of document
ďAs long as you leave me alone Iíll leave you alone. You fool
with me, Iíll eat your lunch.Ē
K: So tell me a little bit about how you came across... I mean, youíre
really a big-picture thinker. And how did you actually start thinking
along these lines?
G: I started off as an aeronautical engineer when I was in college and I
got real interested in what makes UFOs go and so I just kind of pursued
the trail of the technology as opposed to the aliens and that kind of
stuff. And thatís all I do is pursue the technology. I got lucky. I got
very very lucky and I got my hands on a cutaway of their birds and then
used the cutaway... the engineering cutaways, to reverse engineer the
K: But youíre not basing your theories on, say,
Tesla or... or
Carrís, isnít that right?
G: No. No, we base it on what we can see is functional and works, we
know is real. Weíve got about 12,000 frames of film of the bird dancing
around the skies of
K: So, this is an ARV... isnít that what itís called?
RAM - Replication Alien Machine
G: Uh. Thatís what some people call it. We call it RAM,
K: Oh, I see.
G: We donít... they call it Alien Reproduction Vehicle, and we donít do
that. We are into the universality of the circuit design that they use
to negate gravity, inertia, and time.
K: OK. So you know something about
time travel as well.
G: Yeah. A UFO is probably very much like the cars back in ďBack to the
Future,Ē a flying time machine.
G: Theyíre capable of going backwards and forwards in time.
K: And whatís your vision for the world? Could you tell us in general
G: Our vision is to get the energy out there so that we can eliminate
oil, coal, and gas and nuclear fuels from polluting the atmosphere and
causing the carbon dioxide thatís creating the global warming. That and
a concomitant reduction in the cost of living by about... eighty percent
of the cost of living is attributed to paying for energy. So if you
donít have to pay it out you get to keep it.
K: OK. But arenít you worried about the economy? Youíre actually trying
to safeguard certain aspects of the economy in the process?
G: Yeah. Thereís the... we are interested in, ah, the Plutopian
enhancement of the economy from about 44 trillion GDP currently to about
a quadrillion a year in about ten years, and making everybody about 100
times more wealthy and spreading the wealth out and causing an
equalization. And people donít have to work if they donít have to pay
K: OK, so... but youíre also... youíre worried about the bankers? Isnít
that what you told me?
G: Yeah, weíre definitely worried about the paradoxes that are
associated with time travel in terms of its interference, and how youíd
run an economy and how youíd have government if you knew what the
futureís going to be. How do you have interest? How do you have stocks? How
do you have bonds? How do you have banks? How do you have taxes? How do
you have government? ĎCause thatís all...
K: OK. Why just because youíre going to build a vehicle are you going to
know the future?
G: The vehicle creates those problems that you must resolve before you
can introduce the technology. Youíve got to know what the resolution of
those paradoxes are. We call them, ah... they create mindsets that are
very dramatic in terms of how peoplesí brains function.
K: Is that because when you get in a vehicle youíre actually time
G: Well, to negate gravity, youíve got to negate time and so time is the
power of the... of the bird and thatís where the power... We donít
believe it comes from space or zero point. We believe it comes from
time, purely and simply, and that energy and time are the same thing.
K: And isnít
Bill Hamilton working with you at this time?
G: Oh, yeah.
K: Uh huh.
G: Heís one of my science team.
K: Because heís written a book on time travel, I know.
G: Yeah, yeah. Itís quite accurate, I might add.
K: Oh, very good. Thatís nice to hear. And what about
Whatís your relationship with Ramsey?
G: Ramsey and I have been friends since I was in my early 20s working at
the White House in counter intelligence measures, electronic
countermeasures for the Johnson administration. Iíve subsequently been
associated with the Republicans, with President Johnson, I mean
President Nixon and President Reagan.
K: OK. Now, didnít you call yourself a libertarian anarchist? Is that
G: Yeah. Iíve gone from being originally a Democrat to a Republican to a
Libertarian to a Libertarian Anarchist. Iím in favor of massive change.
Iím in favor of the... what I call the extraterrestrial revolution which
gets rid of the need for government and all of the crap that goes with
it, these decision makers that basically screw with our lives every day.
G: And I donít think theyíre necessary. If we know the future we donít
need people to make decisions for us. The decisionís already made.
K: OK. Why arenít you working with
Bob Bigelow, for example?
G: ĎCause Mr. Bigelow is worried, apparently, about his funding from the
Senate and the Congress for his inflatable habs that heís putting up in
the Shuttle and some of his satellite work. And if he does work on alien
technology, then he wonít get funded. Heíd be... They donít want to fund
you if... The government canít fund you if youíre trying to...
K: Is that because Majestic holds the rights over the alien technology?
G: No. Th... we own the intellectual property these days and we tell
them that so I guess they probably figured out that weíd figured out how
to get a grip on the intellectual property, but they donít want it out
for many many reasons. I mean, youíre talking about destabilizing oil,
coal, gas, nuclear and the banks that are associated with the cash flow,
which is huge. Itís 80 percent of the economy for the energy. And that
money all flows through banks and if the banks donít get it, what do
they get? They lose about 80 percent of their cash flow.
K: So. Is the idea that theyíre letting... say, the CIA is working with
you on this now because itís basically coming to an end game? Is that
G: Yeah. I mean, itís... Thereís an evolution toward the revelation of
what the technology is to the world, and... In my opinion the CIA is
probably going to be the only agency that survives the revolution. I
havenít known one that wasnít a patriot, one that... I mean patriots
that walk into bullets. Theyíre very brave...
K: OK but are you talking about patriots in the sense that the United
States is going to run the world?
G: Patriots in the sense that the United States is going to evolve along
with the rest of the nations of the world into some type of new, what we
call New Earth Order, a better system of, ah, of how things work which
is not necessarily a world government but probably is more like a system
where the future is known. God writes the scripts before, time passes,
and he knows...
In most of your religions they claim that God knows the
past, the present and the future. Well if he knows the future itís
because he wrote the script. If you can see the script, then all you can
do is live the script. So thatís what we believe happens, that the
forward time scanning capabilities of the technology allow governments
to not have to be governments, because thereís no need for decisions by
bureaucrats. You donít need them to tell you how to live. Itís all
written out how itís going to be.
All aliens, or extraterrestrials... I
donít like to use the word alien...
probably all go through the exact same revolution. Oil seems to be a
part of the evolution of planets to get their energy and then the oil is
no longer needed because it creates problems like the global warming
problems that we have today.
K: So are you building a craft to go to Mars?
G: Uh... Weíre building power generators and technology to build
starships. Thatís whatís... thatís our objective.
K: OK. To go to the edge of the solar system?
G: To go to the edge of the universe. Weíre not interested in the solar
system. The solar system... thereís nothing out there of any
K: OK. And have you met any aliens?
G: No. No, I know people who claim they constantly communicate with
though and are in touch with them, but, no, I havenít had the pleasure or
K: Have you ever talked... have you ever communicated with them through
your friends, say?
G: Mm, yeah. We attempt to have these surrogate little discussions, but
K: Oh yeah? Because you work with Lisette... Whatís her last name?
K: Yeah. And she wrote the book Talking with Extraterrestrials?
G: Uh huh.
K: And... sounds like she communicates with someone out there.
G: Yeah, Sheís... you canít attribute her level of intelligence to going
to school. Itís just not there, that type of thinking and the type of
philosophy that she says that they advocate. And the way that they see
life and how we should live it is completely... itís not anything that
we currently enjoy. Yeah. So.
K: All right. So youíve had dialogues through her...
G: Anyhow, weíre currently trying to set up
K: OK. Right.
G: And I donít know if weíll ever have any success at it.
K: OK. So you... You donít know what the ET thinks of you.
G: I... No, and I donít know whether or not they even think on that
level. We are trying to find out if they do. And itís been our
experience that women seem to run the future and... extraterrestrial
societies are supposedly lead and directed by women. So, the female side
of the equation. So weíre very pro that idea because itís... Women donít
like war and donít like the consequences of war. We should have more
women in Congress. Weíd have a much more peaceful business of
K: And doesnít a woman figure pretty prominently in your movie scenario?
G: Yeah. Weíve got to... the judges and the prosecutors are women. And
weíve kind of looked at them as the ďultra-terrestrial,Ē the folks that
donít need spaceships to move around... they just think and theyíre
there. So yeah, yeah. Iím... weíre very avant garde toward the idea of
women being the leaders of tomorrow, not men.
On John Lear
K: Now didnít you used to be friends with
G: Yeah. Yeah, we were good friends for a long time.
K: OK. So, did you go to
Area 51 with him? Or...
G: No, I refused. The night that he and Bob Lazar got stopped out there
Wackenhut guys and all that... and all that whether or not it all
happened... If it happened, it seemed to me to be a kind of a set up
routine. And Dr. Uhlig... George Uhlig and I were friends, the Director
of Research and Development at Hercules, and we didnít want to go there.
We didnít want to go with John. We thought there was something smelly
about it, so we didnít go.
K: You didnít go...
G: And it pissed John off no end.
K: Uh huh.
K: But you... you remained friends after that?
G: We... I knew his mom and dad before that time period. I go back to
the late Ď60s with being affiliated with his father and knew his mother,
Moya, because she was very close to my friend John DeLorean and that
kind of thing.
On John DeLorean
K: Uh huh. So what can you tell us about
G: Itís a great sadness, believe me, when I say that heís gone. Because
he was one of the great men of all... of the twentieth century in terms
of his thinking... The idea of non-obsolescent cars by building cars out
of stainless steel and making cars where they didnít wear out. Which is
very possible. And they donít want to do it... And so. I thought... I
worked very closely with him.
Weíd been friends since I was 15 years
old. I met him out on the Bonneville Salt Flats when he was sponsoring
Mickey Thompsonís land speed record car. John and I go way, way back. I
thought he was one of the great men of all time.
He really was.
K: Sounds like heís to some degree an inspiration for what youíre doing
G: He was grand mentor. He knew how to fight once he knew what he was
fighting and he and I were very close friends. And he allowed me to kick
the crap out of the FBI [smiles] so it was fun, to be very frank. And
the FBIís quite a formidable group of folks. But when I had John
DeLorean as my associate and client, it was easy to beat their brains
out. And we beat them.
K: But youíre not a lawyer, so when you say he was your client, in what
way was he your client?
G: I was his chief of strategic planning. You might call me a chief
investigator, like I am for Ramsey Clark. Iíve been Ramseyís chief
On Ramsey Clark
K: Youíre using present tense. Youíre still working with Ramsey?
G: Yes, yes, yeah. Still wor... But I didnít do Saddam. Iím not
affiliated with the Saddam defense. I left him out. Iím not bulletproof.
Ramseyís got a halo and nobody wants to kill a Ramsey. But Iím not sure
they wouldnít do it to me. So... letís put it like this. I... The
stories I could tell you I donít want to tell you about that. Itís a very
dangerous game. Very, very dangerous, the defense of Saddam Hussein.
had a couple of his lawyers murdered by the Ministry of Interior and I
think that the whole trial... Iím not saying that Saddamís a good guy...
That the whole trial was a charade and it should been in the Hague a la
Milosevic. And that trying him without a Sunni judge on the bench and,
ah, assassinating lawyers is not the way you conduct a trial. You donít
conduct a trial by killing off somebodyís defense lawyers. Iím amazed
that they didnít kill
K: OK. But didnít we set Saddam up to begin with anyway?
G: Yeah, yeah. I mean,
Saddam was like a saber-tooth tiger. And after the
Iran/Iraq war and he was starving. And he jumped out in the middle of
the road to grab an antelope out there he thought he was going to eat. And
the next thing he heard was ďBeep-BeepĒ and an 18-wheeler aimed at him,
which was us invading him, you know.
G: Kuwait. Yeah. I donít think Saddam shouldíve gone to Kuwait. That was
a dumb move and a very big mistake. But you got to realize, they called
his loans and he didnít have any money to pay them, so he called their
country. You know, they should left him alone and let him restore his
economy so that he could pay them off.
K: What about the
stargates? Do you believe in that?
G: I donít believe in the stargates. Iím not a fan of stargates. Iíve
heard that they exist from people who claim that. But... in fact, we use
it in the movie, the technology of the weapons delivery system of the
first magnitude because thereís no way to stop it. Bang. Opens up over
your planet and youíve got a nuke going off. How do you stop that?
Thereís no defense against a stargate for a weapons delivery system. So,
if they exist, theyíre the most formidable weapons delivery system,
other than a UFO, that could ever be. So, philosophically Iíd like to
see... Iíd like to see the elimination of the forms of government that
we have today that basically.... Theyíre all over our rights. You know,
the Constitutionís out the window.
Patriot Act is a joke. Itís a
K: So what do you think of the neocons?
G: Gangsters. Iíd call them gang-banksters. I donít think of anything...
Anybody that can go off and put a war like Iraq together and kill
150,000 people all
deserve to be tried for war crimes.
K: Uh huh.
G: Thatís what I believe. They all ought to be hung for war crimes.
K: But you were very involved in Waco, isnít that right?
K: So what can you... What happened with Waco? Because you have a very
interesting story along those lines.
G: They murdered them.
G: They mass murdered them. The ATF attacked them and they got the
response that they asked for because they knew what they were going up
against. And they blew off the front door and they killed everybody
standing around the front door.
And, ah, they then hid the front door
after they... after they filled them full of bullet-holes and actually
came and got them and got rid of them. They set the place on fire and they
blew them up and....
K: Why? I mean, why? Do you know why?
G: Apparently part of the games that theyíre playing
to set us up for
911 and some of the other things in order to create us into a
political police state...
K: So that was something at the beginning?
G: ...a quasi-military political police state.
K: OK, but didnít you, ah, tell me that you got the FBI sort of into a
corner in that?
G: Yeah. I got them with the FLIR [Forward-Looking Infra-Red]
Myself and Bill Colby got together and we discovered that there was a
gunshots in the FLIR tape and the government then put on a
charade test of it. The judge was the real culprit in the whole thing.
He engineered the whole assassination of all those people. Obliteration.
Janet Reno had complete control, didnít she?
G: She did, but she was just there when the truck went by, or the bus
went by. And she wasnít there when they did it. And she came in a little
later and did it and she covered it all up. And she doesnít like me a
whole bunch and I donít like her a bunch.
K: Uh huh.
G: So thatís... thatís about the way we... I consider her a criminal,
you know, a major league criminal. So, I consider all those people that
assassinated those people... Ďcause those were a bunch of innocent
K: There were children in there as well.
G: Yeah, they killed 28 kids. I mean, but theyíve killed 25,000 kids in
Iraq, so whatís the big deal?
G: Maybe more. Thirty, 35,000 children have been murdered in this war
over there on terror. How do you have a war on terror? Terror and war
are all the same. Itís all the same thing. One guyís terrorist is and
another manís freedom fighter and visa versa. So itís a BS war and those
people have... we should get out of there.
K: OK. What about
G: Iím a fan of Jim Marrs. You know... Iím a believer that we probably
had a big hand in doing that too, based upon the demolition of the
buildings. You can see those puffs of smoke coming from the demolition
charges off the building. So thatís not, you know... Do I believe that
they would do something like that? Yeah. Do I believe that they would
set it up? My answer is: Whereís
Osama bin Laden? I mean, this
government could find a roach in the Brazilian rain forest if it wanted
G: ...so where is Osama? And I donít believe weíre trying to catch him.
I believe we have a deal with him and his family. The bin Laden family
and the Bush family are like that [shows crossed fingers], so... Do I
believe that this is an honorable government? The answerís no. Do I
believe that theyíre murderers and mass murderers? Yes. Do I believe
they ought to be prosecuted in an international tribunal as war criminals?
Yes. I think we need to get out of Vietnam... I mean, not Vietnam but
Iraq. Itís not much different. Itís just a horror show. Weíre just over
there murdering people. We havenít got any justification for it
whatsoever. Thereís no just cause.
K: Since that, you talk about... I donít know. I donít even get the
lingo, but youíre talking about ďwet...Ē
G: I mean, when people try to kill you, you do what you got to do to make
sure they donít or if they try to intimidate you and you make sure that
they donít do it.
K: Well, Do you have a body guard? I mean youíre pretty brave.
G: No, no, no, no. Iím pretty good at that myself.
K: Oh, you are...
G: I donít need... You canít trust bodyguards. They always end up
getting you killed.
K: And so... well, do you ďcarryĒ, as they say?
G: No. No, no, no. I carry a relationship armed with the big guy that
protects me against assholes.
G: Thatís a good way to describe it.
K: Whatís... whatís MJ-12ís absolute, sort of, agenda, in your view?
ĎCause I got a feel... I got a feel that you guys are at cross purposes
to some degree.
G: Yeah, we are at cross purposes but itís because I want control of
their technology so I donít have to go through the R&D process on it.
And we just want to deploy it in order to prevent global warming Ďcause if
you get rid of oil, coal, gas and nuclear youíre going to get rid of all
the pollution of the planet.
K: But why wouldnít
MJ-12 want the same thing? Part of them do....
G: Because they click their heels to
the Bilderbergers who basically
would... are... Theyíre power... theyíre green power. I mean, theyíre
bankers of the world. So, their desire for power is greater than
their desire to protect their children and grandchildren from being
buried in the same grave with them. Thatís how I look at it.
K: Well, youíre familiar with
Dan Burisch, right?
K: And youíve expressed interest in working with him. Isnít that true?
K: So... why?
G: Because heís got wires.
K: Heís got what?
G: Heís got wires in the places where weíd like to have wires.
K: Oh, you mean contact?
K: OK. Are you also interested in what he knows?
K: As a scientist?
G: Mm. Some of itís interesting. But I am into the idea of being able to
contact with extraterrestrials because I think itís an excellent
idea, that they could be helpful.
G: They certainly have the knowledge of how to get past... they got past
the trial and tribulations this planetís going through...
G: ...in their own society and they evolved into what we believe to be
somewhat of... We donít call it utopian. We call it plutopian. Sort of a
madhouse of ideas that are completely different from what we view as
what we would call utopia. But the idea of getting rid of the cost of
energy in our economy is really good because that keeps 80 cents out of
every dollar you keep... you spend... stays in your pocket. You get rich
that way. Quick. Everybody gets rich.
K: OK. So, when did you start working on this?
G: Oh, probably in the early 70s I got involved in really trying to run
it to ground and doing the investigation in terms of trying to get our
hands on their technology and then we lucked into it one day and...
K: When you say ďwe,Ē whoís we?
The Knights Temporal
G: Well, I have a group of folks that I call the
Knights Temporal, that
are, ah... the most prominent aerospace engineers and physicists in the
world today are all part of a team we call the RAM group. We call
ourselves the Knights Temporal. We took a page out of the idea of the Templars who basically
blackmailed the Pope to give them the fiefdoms
They created the banking orders we have today. And so, but,
that... Since we believe the technology is rooted in time, we call
ourselves the Knights Temporal. The alien technology,
the UFO, is
basically a flying time machine. Thatís what we believe, and itís all be
know about it. It indicates that.
K: OK. So you believe in time travel but you donít believe in wormholes.
How is that possible?
G: Well, because I donít need to worm-travel if I can get across the
universe fast enough. I mean, who wants a wormhole? I mean, a wormhole
is an idea that nobody has been able to show me any physics whatsoever
that can be happening. Maybe it can. I donít know, but it seems like
itís going to take a lot of energy to keep that hole open.
K: So do you have a degree in physics?
G: No. I research it like I do all of my intelligence operations. I...
K: Well, come on, are you a genius? [smiles]
G: I always will say that the most unpleasant thing in life is to have a
200 IQ in a 100 IQ world. So... do I? I donít know. I know that I am
constantly offended by the ignorant bastards that live on this planet
that I have to deal with all the time. And theyíre very dumb.
K: And one of those ignorant bastards stole your girlfriend? Is that
G: Which one? Which one stole...?
K: I donít know. Iím asking you.
G: Oh... what they did was they basically knew that I was working on
paradox research for a university... one of the universities that we
have involved in it... and that they knew that I was fooling around with
something that was very psychologically dangerous. And they took the
advantage to take some love letters and rewrite them like you would fake
a tape, and sent them off to her and she took umbrage and I havenít been
able to put it back.
K: And youíre looking, maybe, with your movie, to, ah, rekindle your
love of your life?
G: Yeah... I mean, Iíd give my right arm to do that but, you know, if
she wants to... As Iíve told her, sheís going to have to stand behind the
Ashley Judds and the...
K: Oh come on, now.
G: ...the Janine Turners and the Salma Hayeks to get the job unless
K: OK. So what else can you tell us about why you pursue this with such
really almost... I donít know... fanaticism.
G: Pursue what?
K: Your idea for this craft. Building a UFO and...
G: Well, weíre not really interested so much in building the craft as...
I mean, building a starshipís wonderful because the craft are
shuttlecraft. The UFO is the shuttlecraft for a starship...
G: ...in most instances. And not to say that they canít get across as
quick. Itís just a lot more dangerous when you donít have a support
system. So, what we believe is... is that the idea is to make power,
make electrical power, be able to replace... be able to put what might
look like a silo at a utility grid site where they have a relay station
and just put that there and get a gigawatt out of it.
And that... if you
can mass produce those toys and get rid of the need to pump oil into the
fuel reactors that we have out there to... that make power and cars and
planes and boats and trains and everything else is unnecessary. You can
get rid of all that at. You donít have to fly it initially but you
definitely have to get rid of it.
We donít need petro-burning machines
and we donít need to waste a lot of time going through all of this
evolution of hydrogen economy Ďcause it takes a barrel of oil to make a
barrel of hydrogen and thatís a charade.
K: OK. But whatís going to happen, if thereíre
Earth changes, to your
G: Well, weíre in favor of being able to make changes to the Earth
changes. Quickly. Weíre in a race to try to get this technology
developed before the Earth is... I donít call it global warming. I call
it global burning. I mean, itís getting hot. Itís getting really hot.
And itís... I mean, when you see the...
K: Well, isnít this the sun and the solar flares got something to do
G: Some people say that. But, I mean, itís obvious that... from Vice
President Goreís film, Unintended Consequences, or
whatever he called
it... we are heating up the upper atmosphere by pumping carbon dioxide
out the tail pipes of our cars and out of our planes and out of our
trains and out of our boats and out of our everything.
K: So this is the time bomb that you think youíre up against, is global
G: Yeah. I mean, Iíve heard the tales about the black planet coming
G: ...and all that. You know, show me. Iím from Missouri. You got
me a picture of it coming, and then Iíll buy it. But they tell me itís
there and, I mean, Iíve heard stories about it, but I mean, for me,
itís... you know, I think ET keeps us here.
ET created us and ETís
purpose is to keep this little laboratory, uh, called Earth going
forward toward evolution so that we can grow up to become
extraterrestrials and spread our seed out through the universe and
basically spread life, which is the prime directive.
Not to go where no
manís gone before. Just to go. And to take life out there because
thereís probably more places to put life than there is people to put on
it. A lot of planets.
K: OK. Well, thatís actually a beautiful idea.
G: Well, the best thing I can think of to do. I mean itís... Iíve got
enough time in my life to do it.
K: And do you think youíre going to last? That youíre going to deliver
G: Well, you know, all you can do in going up Everest is try, you know.
I mean, do you make it to the top or do you donít? I mean, itís not the
accomplishment of getting to the top. Itís the doing of trying to do the
deed. You know, if you donít do the deed, at least you tried, you know.
They canít say that you werenít a serious type of human being, you know.
K: Weíre going to kind of backtrack a little bit and weíre going to ask
you about Watergate...
K: ...because, now, if I understand, you wired the Oval Office?
G: Yeah. I put in an electronic countermeasures system to defeat people
bugging the Oval Office...
K: OK. And that was...
G: ...bugging conversations and recording any conversations in the room.
K: Right. But were you involved in also, supposedly...
G: Erasing all the tapes. Yeah.
K: ...erasing all Nixonís tapes. Right.
G: Uh huh. It was a good idea.
K: It was a good idea.
G: I wish I have done it.
K: OK. But they werenít erased. You heard them then, right?
K: You must have heard...
G: All 4004 tapes.
K: Yeah... and so what can you tell us? What do you know?
G: I think if I had, knowing the level of intrigue that was going on...
and what Watergate was really all about was much of a cover-up of why we
lost the war in Vietnam. It was... they were about to have Senate
hearings ... [gestures at camera] Is this on?
G: They were about to have Senate hearings about a postmortem on Vietnam
and they... The powers that be elected to create Watergate to take our
attention away from the postmortem. And the Senate and the House
intelligence committees became so busy with Watergate that they couldnít
do the postmortem on Vietnam, which I believe was the crime of crimes.
It was a terrible crime. We were over there to just get money and take
the money out the Golden Triangle for dope and take it out to
K: So youíre saying that the money for dope went straight to Area 51.
G: The whole Vietnam exercise and killing 55,000 Americans and about 2
million Vietnamese was for the purposes of operating the Golden
Triangleís heroin operations in order to pump the money into Area 51,
because it had... They couldnít fund it except by going off balance
sheets. They did Vietnam and then they did Afghanistan in the 80s and
then they did Columbia in the 90s with the cocaine, the crack cocaine
crap. Which is as evil as evil gets.
K: And so basically youíre saying that our government is running the
G: [shakes head no] Iím saying that Majestic is an arm... is no longer
part of the government of the United States. Itís run... Itís been
privatized and itís run by
the people that run the world.
K: OK. So youíre alluding to the fact that Majestic is responsible for
running the drugs. Is that what youíre saying?
G: Yeah, with the help of other agencies, the government. They moved a
lot of that money.
K: The FBI?
G: Sort of. Maybe. Probably. Probably.
K: And not the CIA? I mean, everyone...
K: ...says the CIAís involved in all that.
G: Yeah. But Iím not going to throw rocks at them. They did what they did,
but, you know, they thought that they were doing the right thing. Mark
Felt, when he told Bob Woodward that the whole reason for Watergate was
all about covering up the Vietnamese operations, the drug sales, and the
Golden Triangle, to supply the money to do the back engineering of the
UFO, which cost billions upon billions upon billions, hundred billion
K: To back-engineer the UFO.
The Crash at Roswell
G: Yeah. The
crash at Roswell and other places. Crashes.
K: So what do you know about the crash at Roswell?
G: Watch and read. Itís all out there.
K: Did Nixon know?
K: Are you saying ďprobablyĒ Ďcause you know or are you saying
ďprobablyĒ because you donít want to be...
G: Iím just saying probably.
K: ...on the record saying...
G: I donít want to go on the record. I donít know that he knew for a fact
but I had information when I was at the White House that he was doing
McCord and Liddy
G: That he recognized that Watergate was an exercise that he didnít
understand, by intelligence operatives that were just a bit sharper than
him. Like McCordís finding the... putting the tape on the door twice so
that the guard would get him arrested, and that kind of crap. Itís
beyond the pale.
Anybody that... if you find that somebody has taken the
tape off the door that youíre using so that you can exit the place, and
you go put it back, then all youíre asking for is to get arrested. So
McCord, in my opinion, set the President up.
And Liddy was the pawn and
he was used miserably by the guys who gave him the Gemstone graphics
that were used that caused all of Watergate.
Just what I know.
K: Uh huh. And can you tell me about the... didnít they develop the
whole idea of the
Manchurian candidate during the Vietnam war?
G: Well, Laurence Harvey, the actor, probably might be able to tell you
more about that than me. But the answer is that that technologyís
probably been around a while. So, you know, the ability to get people
who are... Iím trying to get the word. Somnambulistic Ö where theyíre
subject to being hypnotized in a second and whatever you tell them to
do, theyíll do.
K: But this is
MK-ULTRA weíre talking about.
G: Yeah. MK-ULTRA had a major league play in all of this. So, you know,
whoís running MK-ULTRA type of research now? Itís anybodyís guess. It
isnít the CIA any more. I like to think I had a hand in causing that go
to away from Langley.
K: You want us to believe that Langleyís not involved in that and other
K: Because you know, the idea is that you had started working with them
G: Iíve never known the CIA to be a bunch of assassins. Theyíre just too
classy. Theyíre not into whacking people as a course of reality.
K: And youíre not holding onto any kind of notion of honor because this
is the only shred of honor left on the planet that you can believe in?
G: I have never known anyone that Iíve ever been associated with in the
CIA to be a criminal. Ever. Ever. Ever.
On J. Edgar Hoover
K: OK. Can you tell us about J. Edgar Hoover?
G: Heís not a nice guy. I donít think he was a nice guy.
K: OK. He wasnít a nice guy. He spied on everyone, right?
G: Mm. Thatís indicated. Yeah.
G: Thatís probably true.
K: And... but what did you had some kind of real dealings with Hoover,
K: Do you want to tell us about that?
G: All that youíre going to do is youíre going to... This is
going to piss off
the FBI and theyíre going to want to fight some more, and I donít want
with them. I mean, Iíd like to think that Iím the guy who put the dress
on him. He deserved to wear the dress. So letís leave it at that.
K: Howíd he die?
G: He drowned in three feet of water. [smiles]
K: How do you do that?
G: You get pushed... you get your head pushed under the water.
K: I see. And you know who did this deed, so to speak?
G: Ah... there was a lot of dying going on around the FLIR tape at Waco.
And the chief, he guy that did the forensic work, he croaked at his
desk, sitting at his desk. He just suddenly decided to die and nobody
ever gave me a decent pathology report on his autopsy. Colby was right
in the middle of it. He was the one who helped me get it all out. And so
we thought it was going to sink the FBI. I mean, the CIA was very anti-FBI
in that timeframe, and they were in my corner. I mean, itís a well known
fact... they were really in my corner.
So what we were doing was trying
to prevent any more assaults on religion by the FBI. We were not... you
know... leave the kids alone. Donít kill the kiddies. And that was,
ah... Mr. Clark is, in my opinion... and a lot of people think heís the
grand contrarian. He may well be, but Iím... and remember, I come from a
Republican background so when people talk to me about Ramsey, I tell
them, ďLook, heís got a halo.Ē
Far as Iím concerned, if I can get him
canonized as a saint when he dies, Iím going to do it. ĎCause I think heís
a saintly man. Heís represented all the bad guys over... But they
deserve to have the best representation they can get. Everybody deserves
a lawyer, OK? I donít care what you accuse people of, they deserve the
best representation they can get.
And Iíve known a lot of them over the
years, including directors.
On Bobby Ray Inman
K: And what about
Bobby Inman? Whatís he involved in?
G: [smiles] Heís reputedly ah, MJ-4, but whether he is or not I donít
know. Heís a nice guy. He and I are friendly, so Iím not going to say
anything negative about Bob. I donít know anything negative.
K: So, isnít he part of
Disclosure. Didnít we hear that?
G: We hear it, but, you know, itís one thing to hear it and itís another
thing to do it. You know, itís one thing to say it. Itís another thing
to do it. So...
On John Gannon
K: What about John Gannon? You know who he is?
G: Yeah, but I...
K: Do you think heís involved in Serpo?
G: I donít know. Iím not a fan of
Serpo, you know. Iím kind of negative
toward ďBeyond DisclosureĒ and that kind of stuff.
K: Youíre negative... what do you mean youíre negative to ďBeyond
G: I think that the people who... that there are a lot of people out
there that supposedly are pro-disclosure are nothing but
disinformation ops. And they probably operate under the cover of the DIA,
who I have a great admiration for also. Iíve never known those guys to
be really bad other than... do this disinformation thing. They seem to
be a heavy hand in the disinformation game, you see.
On Paul Bennewitz
K: What about Bennewitz. Did you know
G: Yes. Yeah, yeah. We met him. We thought that somebody had spun his
loop and put him into a condition where...
On Rick Doty
K: What about
Rick Doty? Did he have a hand in that?
G: He obviously had a hand in it. Did he do it and was Bennewitz already
on the slippery slope of mental disorder? I donít know. But apparently
if he was they made sure they greased the slope a bunch for him. So I
always thought Bennewitz was a terrible crime. Just criminal activity
On Bill Cooper
K: Did you know
K: What did you think of him?
G: I thought that he ought to... to be very blunt with you, I think Cooper
was a patriot in his own way but he was a bit more aggressive than I am
and wanted to fight at every drop of the hat. He once threatened to kill
John Lear over me, and... I was there the night they did it and he
thought that I was Majestic and that was just BS in the maximum. And so
Cooper probably peed-off the cops enough to get himself shot. So... you
K: Well, he was heavily involved in outing Waco the way you were.
G: The difference between him and me outing Waco is I was actually
physically doing it and putting it into the record of the case. I was
actually doing the investigations that brought up all the crap, that...
you know... burning them up and gassing them and shooting them and just
basically murdering them.
K: When you say you were involved in the investigation, does that mean
you do your own investigation or you have somebody do it for you?
G: Mm. I did my own investigations for Mr. Clark. Yeah, and I provided
K: Does that mean interviewing people? Does that mean researching...
G: That meant everything. I interviewed all of Koreshís wives and got to
talk about his sex habits and da-da-da-da, which was cute. And, so yes,
I got to interview everybody and I was well known for doing that. I was
very proud of it... The fact that we lost says something to do with our
fascist judicial system.
K: So do you think that...
Operation Paperclip... they brought a bunch
of Nazis over here...
G: [nods head yes]
K: I mean... Tell me youíre not using some of those Nazis in your group.
G: Well, theyíre not part of my group and theyíre gone. Theyíre mostly
dead. I mean, all those Nazis from World War Two, the scientists that...
Bethe and all those guys, theyíre all gone. Kammer, theyíre gone. So
K: But they had a big hand...
G: Theyíd be 90 years... theyíd be 105 years old.
K: OK. But they had a big hand in the development of the atomic bomb.
G: Yeah... man, Iím a strong believer that Farrell wrote a good book
when he wrote SS: Brotherhood of the Bell recently. Good. Very good. So
I believe the Nazisí influence is out there. We can see the neocon
fascism in our government today is out there, so do I believe the Nazis
are gone? No, I think theyíre still active. Many of them. And they still
believe the same evil crap they did then.
K: So youíve never met an ET. Have you been curious? I mean, youíve got
hands in every pot, it sounds to me. Canít you get an introduction to an
G: Yeah, weíre working on that. Weíre...
K: You are?
G: Weíre doing the best we can with the tools weíve got to do it with.
But yes, weíre...
K: Have you been to Area 51, underground?
G: Have I been inside of it? No. Dulceís the... We did a thorough search
for the underground
area of Dulce. And I mean thorough. And itís
bullshit. Itís pure unadulterated BS. Thereís no underground base at
Dulce. We wanted to get in. [laughs] We just wanted to get in. We bought
into the disinformation long enough to get close enough. And we spent
four, five days trekking the Archuleta Mesa and went all over the place.
And used seismometers and everything to try to find out if there were
underground holes. And we didnít find any of that.
K: Did you use any native Americans to help you out?
G: Yeah. Yeah. We talked to all the Apaches out there and itís just BS.
Just BS. Itís a disinformation operation.
K: And you wouldnít be pushing disinfo right now by telling me that.
G: No. Iíll bet you a billion that you canít find a hole in the side of
Archuleta Mesa in which you can access an alien underground base there.
And Iíll bet you a billion and Iíd bet my life on it Ďcause I went over
the place with a fine tooth comb.
K: OK. What about underground LA?
G: Well, I mean, anythingís possible. I mean, they got tunnels thatíll
... They got
tunneling equipment that is nuclear powered. They can drill
tunnels anywhere they want from anywhere, so...
K: What about
under the Capitol?
G: I believe anythingís possible if you want to spend the money.
K: No. Iím not interested in what you what you believe. Iím interested
in what you know.
G: No. I donít know of any underground systems. Iím sure that they
exist, I just donít know where they...
K: You wired the White House and you donít know if thereís an
underground base there?
G: Well, yeah, remember I did that when I was the guy who built the toy
that made it work and so that was why I was there. There was no other
reason for me to be there than the fact that I supplied the checkmate
system to do it.
So obviously when they needed an installer to put it
in... I put it in there and put it in Ellis Ranch and other places.
Montauk and the Philadelphia Experiment...
K: What about Montauk? Are you familiar with
G: Yeah, and I donít believe it.
K: You donít beli... What about the Philadelphia? These are...
G: I believe that the
Philadelphia experiment probably took place and
that they may have done it but I have no proof that they did do it. I
havenít seen a scintilla of an iota of really substantive evidence that
any of thatís true. It sounds to me like a disinformation story meant to
lead you away from the technology.
K: OK. Are you familiar with Wilhelm Reich?
K: What about
Wilhelm Reich and orgone?
G: I think he just made... I think he probably got the Food and Drug
Administration really angry at him, with his cures. And maybe his cures
were real and they didnít want him to do it and they just said,
ďHey you got to go. We canít afford you around. Youíre
going to put the doctors out
of business so weíre going to get rid... Weíre going to put your ass in jail.Ē
They have the capability to frame their mothers. And they will. So. Iím
a real fan of their ability to create fake tapes and fake documents and
fake this and fake photographs and fake videos, fake anything. They can
fake it all to the point where forensically you canít tell reality from surreality and bullshit.
K: OK. Well, along those lines, I understand that Majestic had a hand in
faking emails between you and John Lear that added to the animosity
between you. Is that right?
G: Yeah. They did that and Iím not sure John Lear didnít have a part of
it himself, you know? So... yeah, they actually did that and they faked
some other videos, and...
On Kit Green
K: Are you able to talk about
Kit Green at all?
G: No. I have nothing to say about Dr. Green. I believe heís the worldís
greatest neurobiologist and one thing and another. I think ...
K: Is he called in on alien autopsies? Do you know that much?
G: Iíve heard it but I donít know what to believe. He has never said it
to me. I know that he recently notified me that a bunch of his emails
were being faked and that there was stuff that was being attributed to
him that was obviously coming out of Majesticís gang. Probably using an
NSA cutout to do it.
G: NSA technology... They can bug your phone, bug your computer and they
can figure it... They can read all your email traffic and they know
exactly what they want to put in your next email in order to destabilize
your relationship with whoever youíre talking to. So yeah. But Kit
Greenís a great guy as far as Iím concerned. I have no problem with Kit.
Heís not an enemy. Contrary to public...
On Jim Marrs
K: OK. So, Jim Marrs... heís a wonderful Ufologist, heís a wonderful
G: Heís a member of our team.
K: Heís a member of your team...
G: Heís a historical scribe for the RAM group and heís hopefully my
biographer. They tell me that heís going to do my biography and thatís as
complimentary as I can get.
G: Heís the worldís greatest conspiracy theorist.
On Eric Julien
K: Now isnít it true that youíre working with
Eric Julien a little bit
G: Yeah, yeah. So...
K: Heís written a book on... Supposedly he had ET visitation. He went up
and flew a craft. He knows how they work. Is he going to help you?
G: Mm. Yeah, and Iím going to help him. Iíll be helping him more than heís
helping me right now. But the answer is yeah, heís a very bright guy. He
may be the Copernicus of the 21st century. But weíve got to find out
that. He and Iíve got to have a lot of dialogues about reality. So. But
weíre getting there because a lot of the stuff that heís talking about,
weíve already found out about.
On Hal Puthoff and Jack Sarfatti
K: OK. What about
Jack Sarfatti and
Hal Puthoff? You working with these
G: Hal and Jack are like Mike & Ike...
G: ...or Alfonse & Gaston or Abbott & Costello, Laurel & Hardy. I mean,
all they do is fight each other and castigate and criticize each other.
K: Well, do they know anything? Come on, these are... Hal Puthoff is a
G: Yeah, they got a... itís sort of like everybody... itís like theyíve
got a little piece of the puzzle. Itís like Iíve got the proverbial
elephant. Somebodyís got a piece of the tail, another guyís got a leg,
another guyís got a trunk. Everybodyís blindfolded. So they all have a
little piece of the elephant but they donít know the whole elephant. So,
K: Do they try to work with you?
G: Oh yeah, yeah. We get along fine. I get along fine with Hal and Jack.
Jack doesnít... Jack is sort of a bit of a... monumental maniacal ego
with a huge NIH Ė not invented here Ė factor and Hal is a much more
level guy with different ideas. And one of them is into white zero-point,
and the other oneís into dark energy zero-point and they have their
And we donít even believe in any of that. So. We have our own
theories. Our theories are based upon having discovered what we have
discovered. But... Hal is the chief scientist and Sarfattiís welcome to
come aboard, but heís got to stop throwing rotten tomatoes at Hal.
K: What do you mean? Halís your chief scientist?
G: The last time I checked.
K: How about that.
G: How Ďbout that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Itís a matter of record.
G: So, they all attend the meetings of the gang, whenever the gangís
coming together and they stay tuned to it because itís an alternative to
what theyíre doing and theyíve got to keep a bet on that horse. Itís a...
in a horse race of three or four horses youíve got to keep a bet on all
K: Youíve got some remote viewers on your team?
G: Well, Hal Puthoff is pretty much of a
remote viewer. I mean, he
pretty much... him and
Ingo Swann invented the stuff, so the answer is
K: Are you saying Ingoís part of your team?
G: No. Iím just saying that weíve got remote viewers. We use remote
viewers... for security purposes.
K: OK. So you know youíre going to be successful?
G: I proctoscope the government every so often with remote viewers,
K: Uh huh.
G: Just like, they proctoscope me, I proctoscope them. Except I...
K: OK. Are you going to be successful? I mean, are they telling you the
G: I think the only reason Iím not dead at this point is that they know
Iíll win. They know from forward time scanning that me and, weíll call
it me and my coterie of... ah, patriots... we call ourselves the Earth
Patriots in the film. And so we went... you know, we canít lose.
G: The planet must continue. God didnít develop and go through all of
this and create this giant civilization just to wipe it out just because
somebody didnít want to stop burning oil.
K: What is this about Starport that youíre trying to tell us about?
G: Well, you logically canít go forward toward the development of
starship technology unless youíre going to build starships. And where you
going to build starships? Thereís only one plant big enough on the planet
to do that and thatís the Mitsu facility where the Saturn S1B and the
Saturn Five Ė those were the moon rockets Ė and the Shuttle main tank
are done because itís got the largest bay area.
And thatís where we
believe theyíre going to be built. And it sits in the middle of a piece of
property that weíre working now with the governor of Louisiana to
develop into a project called Starport, which is an air, sea, rail,
truck, container, and space port for launching starships into... as
freighters and as aircraft to move passengers. And like, you know, weíll
probably make it, with the right alien... with the right antigravity
technologies... you can probably make a trip from New Orleans to
Shanghai or Osaka in 20 minutes or less.
We see a completely different
civilization coming. Completely. Of an extremely revolutionary condition
thatís inevitable. It has to happen.
K: Uh huh. What year do you think this is going to happen?
G: Well, as fast as we can get our little programs rolling along, and
theyíre rolling along real well. So I can only tell you that we look to
see the technology begin to go into mass production before the end of
K: Well, who runs this little consortium that youíre putting together?
Is it you?
G: Iím sort of director general of the project right now, but that
doesnít mean that I want to stay there. Iím just doing the thing. Weíre
trying to take a former minister of defense from another foreign
country, to have him take over the project and get me out of the loop of
having to deal with the daily mundane problems and the daily development
of the consortium. Itís like Airbus...
K: Can you tell us who that is?
G: Weíre there. I mean, weíre dealing with them and they know weíre there
and they know what we have. There are a lot of people that know that we
borrowed, expropriated, pirated the technology from Majestic and weíre
not giving it back. Itís that elemental. And so weíre developing it and
weíre doing it in a way that overcomes the problems that they recognize.
One of the big reasons that they donít want
to do it is time paradoxes.
Time paradoxes is a huge problem for them because if you know the future
then how do you have markets? How do you have interest? How do you have
taxes? How do you have government? How do you...
K: How do you have free will?
K: Isnít that one of your issues?
G: Well... Iíve been Nietzschean until I discovered this and Iím now at
the point where if somebody could give me a script and I could go out
tomorrow and enjoy my life and just carry out my tomorrow diktat from
the... weíll call it the time forward scan TV, that I could see what
Iíve got to do next month, thatíd be fine. Go live my life and follow the
God wrote the script. Why not do it? He knows what heís doing.
Weíre all apiece of him and... why not do it his way? I mean, his way
may be a lot better than our way. Free will may not be all that big a
deal. You know, who cares...
K: Come on. Arenít you the biggest rebel of all time?
G: [long pause] But Iím not a rebel against the stuff that I believe is
the reality we may have to live with. I mean, so what...?
K: So you mean youíre a practical rebel?
G: Iím a pragmatist. Iím a pragmatic rebel. If I see that this is the way
itís got to be and if I can facilitate making it happen and it makes the
world a better place to live, then great, you know. I mean, Iím not anti
K: So, am I to understand that you killed a man?
G: No. Never.
G: Never, never, ever.
K: Have you ever ordered a man to be killed?
G: No. No, no.
K: So youíve got a lot of threats going back and forth, but no....
G: There are a lot of threats, but thereís the... You know... Thereís
ďYou hurt me, Iím going to hurt you back and how I hurt you back may
not be the way you hurt me.Ē
And so they know, that if youíre that... If
you have those kind of capabilities of doing dirty tricks... Most people
donít want to have a guy who has a philosophy of,
ďIf you have nothing to
do for the rest of your life, go ahead and pick a fight with me.Ē
I was there when the bus went by and the little door opened on the bus
and a mechanical arm grabbed me and said, ďYouíre going to take this ride
down on this bus in history.Ē And that was it, I couldnít get away from
it. It was meant to happen. It was there. If I had to do it over again,
Iíd avoid it.
If I could go back and say Iím not going to be Garrisonís
chief of security, Iím not going to get involved with the White House, Iím
not going to get involved with the CIA, I am not going to get involved with
picking fights with Mr. Hoover, and that kind of stuff, I would avoid it
like the plague. ĎCause it cost me. It cost me a wife, three kids, 10 or
15 million dollars and five years of my life.
So I donít want any more
K: When do you think youíre going to actually be successful? I mean ...
G: If we get the money for this movie, we are successful. We will be
making a movie about what weíre actually doing. Itís basically a
docudrama hidden inside of a drama, wrapped inside of an enigma and on
and on, and a mystery. And so thatís what weíre doing.
K: And have you gotten anybody in Hollywood interested?
G: Oh yeah.
K: Anyone weíd know?
G: Like... all of them... the brass. The moguls, the titans.
K: Oh yeah?
K: So they take you seriously.
G: They take me and my friends at Langley seriously, is a good way to
put it. And they take our relationships and our evidence and all the
rest of it... Weíve got it... This is all well documented. Very well
K: So when do you start filming?
G: Ah. I would hope that it might be the middle of next year sometime
after we finish the scripts and get ourselves into production. Scripts
as opposed to just fat treatments for directors and stuff like that. So
the answer is: as fast as we can go there.
G: So weíre making headway. And there isnít much that the Majestic gang
of... ah, sick bastards can do about it. And they know what the
consequences these days are going to be if we catch them playing in our
backyard any more. I mean, it doesn'tí... they canít send... Itís
counter intelligence proactive.
Same crap that was done in
the Ď60s against the peace movement is done now except itís much more
sophisticated and very strange and very psychological operations
oriented. So they know what the price of dealing with us is going to be.
Itís going to be very expensive. Because we know exactly where to put our
torpedoes. Theyíre all exposed. We know who they are.
K: OK. But isnít it true that the government, or... the secret
government ... already has crafts up there?
K: I mean, in essence theyíve got the technology.
G: Yeah, but they canít...
K: Theyíve been dealing with ET for 40 years...
G: So what? I own the intellectual property. I...
K: So what do... I mean, theyíve been manufacturing craft that we see in
G: Theyíre not manufacturing a lot of them.
K: Theyíre not?
G: You see them in a lot of places Ďcause they move quick but thereís not
a lot of them and...
K: Black triangles?
G: So what? You know, thatís nothing more than a UFO inside of something
that looks like an F117A to be able to bullshit the public as they come
down the rural farm roads:
ďGee, thatís an F117. Itís just going slow.Ē
Itís bullshit. Itís all a game. Itís all psyops. Psyops 101.
The very realistic image
shown is an artistís impression of a classified
ďblack triangleĒ aircraft which is said to exist,
utilizing very advanced
K: Uh huh.
G: So. No, Iím not worried about them. Iím not worried about them a bit.
Theyíd better be worried about us Ďcause we are serious guys and the
team is... most of my team are all ex-NSA, CIA, DOD, White House, and
weíre not somebody youíd wanta go picking a fight with.
G: And Iím not somebody youíd want to pick a fight with unless you got
nothing to do for the rest of your life.
K: [laughs] OK. Well, I have no desire to pick a fight with you.
G: Iím not saying Iím a badass. Iím just telling you that Iíve had a lot
of experience dealing with gangsters,
gang-banksters and gangsters of
every level of society and in our government. And whatís the difference
between the Mafia and the government if theyíre trying to kill you?
Theyíre all the same. Theyíre all gangsters. If I had to
do a biography today, Iíd title it Government by Gangster, my Experiences
as a Citizen of the United States of America.
K: Howís your conscience?
G: I sleep well.
K: You sleep well?
G: Yeah. I used to know
Paul Tibbets and he bombed Hiroshima and I used
to ask him, I said, how do you sleep?
ďI slept well.Ē He said,
ďSo I killed 200,000 people. So what?Ē He says, ďI stopped the war from
killing another 2 million Americans.Ē
So... my conscience... I have no
problem with my conscience. I have never done anything that I am really
ashamed of. And notorious or quasi-famous or interesting fellow, you
know, that type of thing.
All Iíve done is I was there when the bus went
by and the bus of history brought me aboard and I just took the ride.
K: Why do you think youíre not actually interviewed all over the place?
ĎCause you know a hell of a lot.
G: Because I avoid it like the plague. If it wasnít for you and I
getting along, I wouldnít do this. And the fact is, I want some fatuous
advantage right now, which is put out enough of this to keep the guys...
Because weíre getting really close to snagging the golden ring, you
know, and off the carousel and I would like to stick around a while. And
if you hurt me youíre going to cause a lot of grief and my friends are
be very angry and my friends are going to be very angry and those little
CD-ROMs are going to fly all over the planet.
And youíre not even going to be
able to protect the revolution if you have the revolution without
preconditioning the situation. Youíll have chaos thatíll make the crash
of Ď29 look like a tea party. So, do they want a fight? Go ahead. Pick a
fight. You got nothing to do for the rest of your life, go ahead. Iím
here. Iím easy. Iím not hard to find.
So the bottom line is that we need to go way beyond the Peace Corps and
we need to form entities within our governments, all governments, with
the prime directive to establish peace on this planet in this decade.
K: So you want to put on your sun glasses and... ?
G: What for?
K: Just to give us the sort of, the incognito...
G: Yeah. Iím not James Bond. Iím, ah... weíd like to think we eat those
guys for breakfast. But the bottom line is that weíre just human beings
that have learned how to fight.
G: I wrote her over... it was right before the first Crash Retrieval
Conference in 2004. And so I wrote her some letters, some love letters. I
thought I was writing her love letters Ďcause she didnít show up on time
for the Crash Retrieval Conference. And as a result, the... when I went
back to my computer to look at my letters that I wrote her, I could not
believe that I wrote them. OK?
Now, what weíve just discovered, and I can
show you the discovery by Kit Green, is that Majestic... he caught
Majestic altering his e-mails. Completely like you would fake a tape. I
had caught them doingí that last year when John Lear and I got into it
over Lear threatening my life. OK?
Bill: How did they alter...
G: Well, I wrote John an e-mail and the next thing I know, the e-mail is
completely... the e-mail that I wrote is not the e-mail that I wrote!
Itís on my computer, but it delays... it doesnít come right back. They
take them.. and they sit there and the re-modify them. And I remember some
of the changes. So I call my friends up, and I call up Ron, and I said
Ron, theyíre actually altering my e-mails! And he says, I donít know how
they can do that. I said well, theyíre intercepting them and doing it.
Bill: Did they do that with the intention of creating conflict?
G: Oh yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Kit writes a letter
saying donít tell anybody thatís fooling with these paradoxes... be very
very careful because theyíll create a psychomimetic state akin to LSD,
mescaline, and psilocybin... alter your mindset for a period of time. We
didnít know how long. It lasted about four or five days. Because I just
wrote a blitz of letters to her and didnít remember writing them.
A, must have been on the phone. B, they knew about this paradox thing
from prior work, so they knew when all of the conversations were going
on between me and the university where I was doing them that they
would... ah... theyíd alter my psychology.
[Finding document on his laptop.] Here we go. Secret Anthologies of an
American Enigma. Hereís my Ďblackí curriculum vitae. But it doesnít have
the supporting documentation. But if you will sit down here you can read
all about the Ďblackí side of me. Iíve got a Ďwhiteí curriculum vitae
too, which is... but this is my Ďblackí curriculum vitae which is
supported by nothing but documentation. I have it, but I donít have the
documentation scanned into the computer.
Bill: And thatís absolutely not for the public domain.
G: Absolutely. This is the truth.
"Mr. Novel was retained as Chief of Security for New
Orleans District Attorney former FBI Agent Jim Garrisonís official
investigation into the assassination of President Kennedy. Because of
Mr. Novelís secret relationship with the Johnson White House, he quickly
discovered that the alleged facts of Jim Garrisonís official State of
Louisiana [JFK] conspiracy investigation were being entirely woven out
of whole cloth.
At the direction of his White House contacts, Mr. Novel
secretly supplied this information to a former high level FBI agent and
chief aide to former Attorney General Robert Kennedy, then working for
the NBC White Paper special news unit. District Attorney Garrison
immediately responded by accusing Mr. Novel of being a CIA agent,
calling him ďthe most important material witness in his alleged
conspiracy to assassinate President KennedyĒ.
Mr. Novel had absolutely
nothing to do with the Presidentís assassination and was not then, and
never has been, an agent or employee of the CIA.
Until this time in his
life, Mr. Novel, like all the rest of us, had believed that the FBI was
the good guys."