[DW = D. Wilcock - BF = B. Fulford]
DW: Hello. This is David Wilcock and I’m here with Benjamin Fulford.
I’m interviewing Benjamin Fulford today, which in my time here in Los
Angeles, California would be November 28th, 2011, a Monday - for Ben
it’s already a Tuesday.
The reason why we’re doing this interview is Ben has, for a very long
time now, been talking about a counter-insurgency against what I
lovingly call the Old World Order, which is a mélange of international
[This counter-insurgency] started out as an Asian secret society.
For those of you who don’t already know, I’d
like to establish some of [Fulford’s] bonafides so it doesn’t sound like
he’s tooting his own horn here.
Ben was the Asia-Pacific bureau chief for Forbes magazine. He has a long
history of professional, credentialed academic journalism.
As you can find out from many other interviews he’s done, some of which
are on my site, he got involved into a world of intrigue when he started
to trace where the money was going from the Japanese economy.
He realized the economic stimulus that could be generated for the world
was not being used for anything that was positive - and it seemed like a
lot of money was disappearing.
That investigative trail led to him getting death threats and getting
drawn into an Asian secret society as a counterbalance against the Old
World Order guys.
[The Old World Order] also tried to silence
him and bribe him by offering him - I forget, Ben, was it an
ambassadorship they wanted to offer you, or something like that?
BF: They offered me at one point the job of Finance Minister of Japan.
DW: Finance minister of Japan. Right.
BF: They also, believe it or not, offered me General Electric and
DW: Like you would be the CEO, or something?
BF: Yeah, and I guess the chief shareholder.
The problem, of course, is I had to go along with their plan to kill
four billion people. It’s the classic “sell your soul to the devil”
DW: Right. They just need to lighten the load and get rid of some
surplus. That’s how they like to talk about it.
BF: Well, they want to save the environment and get rid of the “useless
DW: Exactly. So look, man, I’ve been on the Internet since 1996. I’ve had my own
public presence since 1998. I watched you ever since you came out.
I noticed right off the bat - I believe you emerged in 2007 - was that
correct, something like that?
BF: Yeah, it must have been around that time. I had been researching a
lot of stuff before then, but I didn’t feel it was safe to go out in
public because I knew they would kill me.
It wasn’t until I got protection that I was able to come out and start
saying this stuff.
DW: Right. And it is true that within Japan, you are a bestselling author. How
many books do you have in print and how many units have you sold?
BF: I don’t know. More than 30 books, and I don’t know, maybe a million
in all. I haven’t kept track.
DW: 30 titles is very substantial.
You are fully bilingual. Nobody can challenge that. There are plenty of
videos they can watch of you talking fluently in Japanese.
I have seen endless iterations of every type of hate comment that
someone would lob at you.
The most frequent one is they just can’t wrap their head around the
story. They think it’s too implausible that these Asian secret societies
would contact you.
I see that you are bilingual, and you are a credible financial
journalist who then became a best-selling author. You are quite renowned
for these, as you’re saying, 30 books you have in Japan.
There’s no other gaijin - that’s the word they use for foreigner -
there’s no other gaijin in Japan, no other white guy out there that I’m
aware of who is doing what you’ve done.
So who else would they have chosen for something like this - to try to
bridge over to the Western world?
BF: Sure, look. What you have to realize is that there are a couple of
reasons why I fell into this particular niche.
One is that I wrote a lot of stuff that if I had been a Japanese
journalist, I would have been killed for.
DW: Oh really?
BF: But because I was a foreigner working for Forbes, I was off-limits.
DW: This is stuff that would have rattled the chains of the government,
or stuff that would have insulted the Emperor? What are we talking here?
BF: I’m talking in essence about the secret colonial government here.
BF: They’ve been using a network of North Koreans and gangsters and
bribed Japanese. They’ve been using bribery and murder to make this
country into a colony that is only an independent country on the
DW: Now I want to get back to that, but briefly…
BF: [crosstalk] OK, but let me just tell you how I got involved, in a
really short summary.
BF: I basically started writing books in Japanese…
DW: And this was what year, approximately?
BF: I guess the ones that caused troubles came out around 2006. I was
basically saying the 9/11 stuff that was uncovered by many researchers
in the West.
DW: So this was before you ever appeared on Rense or anything in the
BF: And then I had a book out in Japanese that pointed out that
a bio-weapon that was designed to kill non-Caucasian people.
DW: For those who don’t remember, SARS was the bird flu.
BF: I quoted from the documents written by the Neocons, like the
for a New American Century.
The documents pointed out very clearly that there was a group of Western
elitists that were planning on starting World War III and reducing the
world’s population. [I also argued that] Asians could stop this by cutting off their
money - because they required Japanese and Chinese money to finance this
An order came out in the Japanese underworld to have me killed.
DW: That’s understandable, if you start putting your finger in [places
it doesn’t belong….]
BF: The South Korean secret police then told the Chinese - and the
Chinese sent a secret society to offer me protection.
That’s how I became involved in a world I never even knew existed until
If you talked to me before that about Freemasons, you would have gotten
a nervous giggle and a shrug, and that’s about it.
DW: It’s a funny handshake, and they give money to charity, and so on.
BF: The other thing is the Chinese themselves had eavesdropped on one of
the conferences at
the Bohemian Grove.
They were fully aware of this plan to start World War III, and they were
trying to stop it.
When they realized I was being put on a hit list for trying to warn them
of something they already knew about, that’s how I got involved.
DW: OK, one thing. As I’m talking to you I’m also responding to the fact
that when we’ve published articles in the past, we get two or three
hundred written comments on them.
I’m able to read what everybody says and the feedback they have. I’m
trying to speak not just for myself, but also for the collective.
One of the stumbling blocks I think we’ve had in other interviews that
people don’t get clear on is when you say “the Chinese,” people
naturally think of this repressive government.
It’s burning people’s houses down in Tibet. It is restricting YouTube.
It is restricting freedom. It won’t let people march on Tianmen Square.
It is basically just this human-rights-crushing monster.
BF: OK. I guess I made a mistake when I said Chinese.
BF: I should have said Asia. This transcends China. It involves
Indonesia, the Philippines, Thailand, Japan, Taiwan and Korea.
In fact, it goes right to the group of non-aligned nations - a 77-nation
group that included places like Yugoslavia.
It was wrong of me to call it the Chinese. It is an Asian secret
society, not a Chinese secret society.
DW: OK. What would be the relationship between this Asian secret society
and the current Communist government of China?
BF: Believe it or not, the old royal families of Asia decided that
communism would be the best way to modernize China.
Behind and above the communist government of China and the government of
Taiwan, you’ll find an old group of families whose connections go way
beyond temporary political structures.
DW: Now correct me if I’m wrong, but China was named after emperor Qin,
who was of the Dragon Family. That was the
first dynasty of China,
DW: So these people… he’s the one who built the Terra Cotta Soldiers,
where he took every soldier and every horse in his army and built a
stone sculpture out of them.
There’s all sorts of interesting facts about how this Dragon family
showed up. They basically erased all the history from China before then,
which is now being rebuilt by certain scholars.
These Asian secret societies appear to be dynastic. They’ve largely been
behind the scenes. They’ve amassed large amounts of wealth.
That’s part of what we’re into now. That’s what we’re talking about.
BF: You’ve got to remember that there are several different competing
You have essentially a similar thing in Asia as in the West. You have
secret societies that are connected to ancient dynastic bloodlines.
In the West that would be
the Rothschilds, the
British royal families,
Freemasons and the P2 Lodge.
In Asia, it would be
the Dragon Families, I would guess. This would be
all the various dynastic families and clan groupings based on family
But, in the West you had a different group. It is confusing, because
there are several groups that call themselves Illuminati.
There is a group that has contacted me and they’ve proven to me they are
connected to various agencies as well as international drug-smuggling
They claim they started the French, American and Russian revolutions,
and that they are opposed to bloodline rule.
In the same way, the Asians have a secret society that is also based on
meritocracy. They are also opposed to bloodline rule.
The Chinese triads, the Japanese yakuza groups and various other secret
groups in Asia have strict rules against nepotism.
The son of a gang boss could never take over his father’s gang.
These are linked to martial arts societies and also chambers of
There’s no clear line between chambers of commerce and outlaw gangsters
being chased by police. It’s a gray zone. Light gray and dark gray, you
Both in the West and in the East, you have meritocractic secret
societies and bloodline secret societies. OK?
DW: Could you just briefly enunciate for us… A lot of people have PTSD
around hearing things like Illuminati.
As soon as you say stuff like that, the paranoia kicks in, and the fear
and the anxiety kicks in.
So when you say that these are dynastic bloodline families in Asia -
that these are secret societies - are they sacrificing babies? Are they
drinking people’s blood? Are they doing satanic rituals?
What are we talking about here in terms of: who are these people, what
do they think, what’s their philosophy, what do they want?
Do they want to take over the planet? Are they fighting against the
Illuminati to control the planet?
What is their agenda?
BF: They think that the control of the future of the planet should no
longer be controlled by a small Western elite.
They would rather have it fall under the control of the people of the
There is a group, of course, of chauvinistic people who say China should
rule the world - in China.
But, the general consensus in Asia as a whole is it should be equal for
all the people in the world - not just for a Chinese or a Khazarian-controlled
family business that runs the planet.
What they say publicly, I think, is really what they expect for now -
which is a multi-polar world, not one controlled by a single group.
DW: OK. Another question, which I think might help to allay the
skeptics. There’s a lot of them, and they’re very nasty.
Could there be the possibility of a single-point failure in what you’re
Is it possible that all of the stuff that you just told me about these
Chinese secret societies is the result of you meeting one or two guys,
and them telling you these elaborate stories?
You call the guy on the phone every other day and he gives you new
information, and that’s it.
BF: Listen. I was a journalist. I’ve been a journalist here for more
than 25 years. I’ve met most of the post-war prime ministers in Japan.
BF: I’ve met finance ministers, the heads of most of the large
corporations in Asia. Remember, I was the Asia-Pacific bureau chief for
the world’s largest business magazine.
DW: But what does that really mean? How do you get to meet the Prime
Minister? Why would they talk to you?
BF: I would go to Taiwan, I would go to China, I would go to Russia, I
would go to Vietnam, I would go to Australia and I would meet the heads
of large corporations who would want to publicize their companies.
DW: [crosstalk] Were you trying to sell ads?
BF: [crosstalk] What I’m trying to say is that since quitting that job,
I’ve literally… my sources run into the hundreds.
I know the bosses of the Triads, the Yakuza gangs. I know the heads of
the Japanese military intelligence and the police forces here.
I know the heads of the martial arts societies. I’ve talked to the
politburo members in China.
So no, it’s not me talking to one handler or two handlers feeding me
However, it’s true that they’ve thrown all sorts of disinformation my
way to try to ruin my credibility.
At the end of the day, what people need to realize is I don’t need
to prove this to the public at large. Right now we’re trying to convince
the heads of the Pentagon,
the NSA, the KGB and the Freemasons.
In other words, we’re trying to convince the people who control the
military industrial complex, and the politicians, that this is a better
plan than what is in place now.
I’m sorry, but a lot of people out there have been so brainwashed by
television that all you have to do is change what is on the TV to change
BF: I have provided tape recordings and photographs and videos and
various proofs to assorted police and investigative agencies.
So I don’t really need to prove myself at this point. Although, if there
is a legitimate criticism, I am happy to answer it.
DW: Oh, I understand that. One question that I would like to edify here.
When we see videos of you in Japan, on at least three videos I’m aware
of, you’re appearing with a man who seems to have - he is carrying a
walking stick and he seems to have kind of a raspy voice.
So who is this guy and what is his connection? Most people don’t speak
Japanese and they have no idea what is going on.
BF: His name is Chodoin Daikaku. He controls the world’s martial arts
societies. He is the head of the karate associations, the aikido
There’s a couple like the judo and the Chinese martial arts where he’s
not the head of them, but he knows the guys who run them.
So he’s a bigwig. He’s not just some flake.
DW: OK. When you say he controls the karate association…
BF: Well, he’s the head of the organizations.
DW: OK. So how many schools and how many people are we talking about
that he would be working with?
BF: I think there are like 50 million people worldwide studying Japanese
martial arts. They have karate schools in Mexico, in Iran, wherever.
BF: We’re talking very big organizations here.
DW: Couldn’t anybody just open a karate school without accreditation? Or
are you saying there is an accreditation, and he’s at the head of that
BF: If they opened a karate school, they probably got a black belt. They
did that by going to some teacher affiliated with this organization.
DW: I see. So there is some sort of centralized authority that you have
to appeal to if you want to run a karate school.
BF: If you want to get a belt, you have to study at one of these
accredited schools. Yeah.
DW: I see. So nobody could just hang out a sign and say “Here’s a karate
school and here’s your black belt,” and have you be taken seriously if
you wanted to go to a Martial Arts tournament and actually compete?
BF: It’s a meritocracy. If you just put on a black belt and go to these
tournaments and beat people’s ass, they [the martial arts societies]
will recognize you!
DW: [Laughs] OK. But within Japan maybe in particular, let’s say, this guy that you
were referring to, Chodoin Daikaku…
BF: Daikaku. Yeah.
DW: He is sort of like the kingpin of martial arts groups in Japan?
BF: A major kingpin, let’s put it that way. He is also connected to the
Japanese self-defense forces. What you need to realize is that most of the guys I talk to don’t
want their name or picture out there at all.
DW: Sure! Absolutely.
BF: They refuse to let me name them or put out their photograph. But, I
have introduced them to MI6, CIA types - and at that level they do
DW: I know it’s hard to pin you down time-wise. Could you paint for the
average listener what your day is like?
How many insiders… how many different people do you think you talk to in
a given week right now?
BF: It really depends. What happens now is I talk to people who are
connected to large organizations.
I have one guy I talk to who I know has strong Pentagon / CIA
There’s another guy I talk to who is definitely Rothschild, MI6
connected, British Royal Family type.
I’ve confirmed independently, through multiple sources, that these
people are real. Then there’s another guy I talk to who would be connected to the
Japanese right-wing groups as well as the Asian secret societies.
Then there’s this Chodoin guy I talk to.
Then less often, for example, I talk to senior people in the Japanese
gangs - like the Yamaguchi-gumi or the Inagawa-kai or the Sumiyoshi.
There’s a guy I talk to who is a KGB/Serbian intelligence type, who I
talk to quite regularly.
DW: [crosstalk] From Russia or from Serbia?
BF: Originally from Serbia. I shouldn’t say more than that.
DW: Right. I don’t want to betray your sources at all.
BF: For example, I’ve gone out drinking with the wife of the Prime
Minister Kan Naoto many times. She lives in my neighborhood.
BF: There’s a lot of people I know. There has been, though, and I’ve mentioned this… there’s been a
very, very intensive campaign to make me seem like a flake.
BF: They have a book, about as thick as a phone book - a file on me.
First of all, they tried to kill me.
Then when they realized there was protection behind me, and whoever
ordered the kill would be killed themselves in retaliation, the next
thing was they tried to drive me into bankruptcy - by blacklisting me.
When that didn’t work…
DW: Hold on. What do you mean by blacklist?
BF: OK. I used to have regular TV shows in Japan.
DW: Oh, you did?
BF: Oh yeah! Big prime-time shows.
DW: Like on NHK, or what network?
BF: NHK had a 20-minute special on me on prime time. I had various
The point is I was also able to publish stories in places in major
Western media. But I got put on a blacklist.
DW: Around what time was that? What year?
BF: I guess that happened around 2005 or 2006. It was 2006, after I left
Forbes and I started writing stuff about 9/11. That would be about it.
DW: So 9/11 was your first major book that you put out?
BF: No, it was magazine articles.
And then I was holding press conferences at a foreign correspondents’
club, explaining why I was writing
about 9/11. I was trying to get publicity in the Western media.
That’s when I realized that either they were scared of losing their
jobs, or they were working for some agency and only pretending to be a
journalist - and that the media was controlled.
I already knew it was controlled, but I didn’t know how thoroughly it
was controlled until I had press conferences about 9/11 - and presented
I had the New York Times correspondent telling me that he would be fired
if he wrote about this!
DW: So your opinion about 9/11 is obviously not “Arabs with Box
Could you synopsize what was your conclusion that got you in so much
trouble? You’re obviously not supporting the official dogma around 9/11.
BF: I think the short story is that slogan - it was an inside job.
The evidence is overwhelming that it wasn’t done by a small group of
Saudi terrorists with box cutters.
The problem that most people encounter is that if it wasn’t, then
the implications are so mind boggling.
It involves such a large number of people and so much planning, and so
many insiders, that people go into a state of denial.
Such a conspiracy is too large to be possible. And their minds shut it
DW: My major in college was psychology. I went through a suicide hotline
internship, so I have the equivalent of a Master’s just in education.
We learned, especially in crisis counseling, about PTSD - post-traumatic
It turns out that when someone has been traumatized heavily, they create
a dissociative partition in their mind. It’s like a separate personality
that handles the trauma.
They get very defensive.
Typically if you tell them information that brings up that PTSD, that
triggers that trauma, they will attack the messenger.
The trauma is so severe that they will do anything not to actually
BF: They have always had to create fake incidents in order to get people
fired up to get into war.
You go back to historical cases, and people don’t have that trauma
associated with it.
For example, if you look at why the Spanish-American war started, you’ll
realize it was a fake incident.
Blowing up the ship the [USS] Maine, and blaming it on Spain. That’s a
nice rhyming headline there, eh?
DW: [Laughs] Yeah.
BF: And then 70 years later, they say “we actually blew it up
BF: But if you were, at the time, saying it was done by the Americans,
they would have lynched you in the street!
DW: You mentioned a mind-blowing piece of information about the Titanic.
BF: Remember a book came out a year before about a ship called the Titan
that sank on its maiden voyage?
DW: That’s right!
BF: They got rid of, in one fell swoop, about 600 industrialists who
were opposed to the taking over of the Fed. JP Morgan was saying “Hey,
let’s all talk about it as we cross the Atlantic.”
Of course, he missed the ship at the last moment.
They were prevented at gunpoint from boarding the lifeboats. There’s a lot of stuff that’s gong to come out. The conclusion I’ve reached, and it’s really quite mind-boggling, is
The story goes back to
Sabbatai Zevi, a self-described Messiah of the
Jews who lived in Turkey about three hundred and some years ago.
He said he was a Messiah. It was the job of the Jews themselves to carry
out the prophecies of the Torah. We shouldn’t wait for God to do it.
The sultan of Turkey had him called up and said,
“If you are really the
Messiah, then do some miracles. If not, then convert to Islam - or else
we will execute you.”
He couldn’t perform the miracles. So he pretended to convert to Islam.
Instead they worked on subverting the Turkish government from within.
That was the “Young Turks”, eventually.
DW: Did that become the Ottoman Empire, or is that something different?
BF: That was what undid the Ottoman Empire. Ataturk was one of their
members - the founder of modern Turkey.
There’s hundreds of pages of documents to back up what I’m saying. I’m
not just talking out of the side of my mouth here.
The point is that the Rothschilds liked this idea.
You had this group - about a million-member sect - that believes the
prophecies are inevitable. They can’t be stopped. And they’re actively
working to carry them out!
This is the really mind-boggling part of it. It’s just too big and too
ridiculous for most people to comprehend. But the evidence is
These prophecies call for a huge battle between two great nations - Gog
and Magog. Armageddon.
90 percent of humanity would be killed in this battle. The remaining ten
percent would be enslaved by the Jews, who would each have 2,800 slaves.
Now remember, I have Jewish ancestors on both sides. This is not
mainstream Jewish thinking. This is a particular sect.
DW: Would that be Sabbatean Jews?
Sabbateans I call them. I wouldn’t even call them Jews,
because their belief system isn’t really Jewish.
BF: You had Israeli newspapers… they tried to set up this war between
the Soviet Union and the West, which would have done that.
They almost succeeded in the Cuban Missile Crisis. I happened to be
living in Cuba at the time - I was just a baby.
BF: What happened then - and this is where we get into hard financial
history, international financial treaties, stuff that is very well
documented in the archives.
A lot of the nations of the world said this is crazy. They wanted
something different. I’m going to take you back a bit so people can understand what is
happening now and what specific legal actions we are taking against this
group of fanatics.
DW: Please do. Yeah. I’ve read
the entire 111-page document, thoroughly,
as if it was a contract I would be signing myself.
When we get to that, I’d be happy to dialogue about it - but yeah, go
BF: I’ve been shown many, many, many documents related to this. Nothing
to do with that lawsuit.
BF: Essentially, in the 1930s the Japanese invaded China.
Their goal was to take the gold - confiscate the Chinese gold.
DW: Was Japan at that time trying to create what they called the Greater
East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere?
BF: Yes, but Japan was also still linked to the British. It’s complex.
There were conflicting groups with conflicting goals. It’s not a
monolithic story. There are different stories with different actors.
DW: Japan was medieval up until 1877 when Captain Morgan, right, stormed
the Japanese shore with gunboats and basically said “Westernize or die.” Japan then went into an extremely rapid, almost unprecedented
industrial growth after that.
BF: It wasn’t a Captain Morgan [but you are right.] The Rothschilds
built up Japan as a military colony to use to dominate China.
DW: Beginning in the 1800s?
BF: Going right back.
DW: So as soon as they Westernized. Right. Okay. So the Meiji families - that was the Meiji Restoration where that
all started. The Meijis were apparently kids, right? It was a youth
Are you saying that the Rothschilds financed these youths and put them
BF: They [the Rothschilds] took over the southern clans of Satsuma and
Choshu, and then gave them modern weapons and used them to conquer
DW: [crosstalk] So Japan was feudal until then.
BF: [crosstalk] Anyway, that’s an interesting thing, but let’s get to
what’s happening today.
DW: OK, great.
BF: We need to go back to the 1930s. The point was that Japan was
invading China. They had these bandits run by a guy called Kodama
They go into a town. They would seize the gold and loot the treasure.
Then the Japanese army would show up and say,
“We hear you’ve got bandit
problems. We will protect you!”
By that time the gold was all being shipped off to Tokyo, and then later
to the Philippines.
DW: Very clever.
BF: The Kuomintang government didn’t want their gold to be taken by the
In 1938, seven US warships filled with Chinese gold and silver were sent
back to the United States.
A lot of gold was sent out before, too, going back to the 1920s.
The Chinese were given 60-year bonds. Let’s just stick to the 1938 ones.
They were given 60-year bonds in exchange for the gold they handed over
to the Federal Reserve Board.
DW: I just want to thread this. Are you saying that the Rothschilds, to
some degree, were still behind these criminal actions of stealing the
BF: The American families behind the US Federal Reserve Board were
trying to grab gold.
The Rothschilds were trying to grab gold.
It was a gold grab, with different people trying to grab gold for
themselves and for their groups.
DW: So Japan in some sense was acting as a proxy for [the Federal
Reserve families in America and Britain.]
DW: Okay. That’s an important point.
BF: A lot of gold was shipped to the United States. The Chinese were
given lots of US government bonds, with astronomical denominations, in
exchange for that gold.
DW: You mentioned that Kuomintang was the government at that time.
BF: That would be the nationalist Chinese government that was in power
at that time. Chiang Kai-Shek.
DW: Are these the Communists, or is that something else?
BF: No. They weren’t communists. They were the people who then fled to
Taiwan after the Communists took over.
DW: Well, here’s Taiwan - this little tiny country which has so much
That’s why China seems to be always trying to invade them and get it
Are you saying that that’s when this all started?
BF: The Taiwanese took a lot of the treasure with them when they fled
They have a museum in Taiwan which is very famous.
There are some hills behind the museum.
Every year they change the display in the museum. They’ve been doing
that for 50 years.
They haven’t even begun to make a dent in displaying all the treasures
they have hidden in those hills.
DW: My goodness. You’re saying these are subterranean vaults inside the
BF: This is the ancient imperial treasure of China.
BF: And that’s just one of the many treasure hordes that are out there.
DW: Was this from the Mongolians? Where did all this treasure come from
in the first place?
Did they conquer people and get it that way, or what?
BF: OK. For example, if you look at the old archives and history books,
you will see that the Romans were buying silk and ceramics and spices
from the Chinese… and paying for it in gold.
DW: Oh my God.
BF: And so were the Spaniards. They took all the gold they stole from
the Aztecs and the Incas - and they spent it on Asian stuff!
DW: Oh my God!
85 percent of the world’s gold ended up in Asia over the past
[few] thousands of years.
DW: I’m really getting it now. This is amazing! Go ahead.
BF: Part of what World War II was about was a grab for this gold.
DW: Wow. Do they have military fortification around these hills in Taiwan?
Obviously they would have to guard that very extensively, if you are
saying there are that many assets there.
BF: Sure. Their big plan for when China invades is to scoot out the back
side with all their gold! [Laughs]
BF: [Laughs] Getting back to the thread…
DW: So the Kuomintang fled China to Taiwan.
BF: What happened was the Western powers - the Western oligarchs, let’s
call them - planned to take all the gold out of private hands in the
DW: What timeframe are we in now? 1938?
BF: This is in the 1930s. Remember, in 1934, Roosevelt banned the
private ownership of gold.
DW: Right. Allegedly due to the Great Depression and the need to [save
the economy by pooling everyone’s gold assets into the Federal Reserve.]
BF: Right. The Jews didn’t want to give up their gold. That was one of
the reasons why they were rounded up and sent to concentration camps.
The Asians didn’t want to give up their gold. That’s why they sent the
Japanese army to come in and take it.
DW: With the Federal Reserve, the basic idea was that Roosevelt said,
“Everybody [has to give up their gold.]”
Some people may still not know this if they’re that ignorant. The
Federal Reserve confiscated everybody’s gold.
Even if you had it in a safe deposit box in a bank, they looted your
safe deposit box and they took your gold away. Correct?
BF: Yeah. They’re doing that now, too.
BF: If you have gold in a safety deposit box and they haven’t taken it
yet, get it out! ASAP!
BF: Anyway, let’s go back to the history. In 1944, they had the
Bretton Woods agreement. At this agreement,
the gold-backed international financial system was set up.
Most of the gold that was not being controlled by the Western powers was
removed from the market.
DW: How do you mean “removed from the market?”
BF: It was blacklisted, or hidden in caves, or buried in sunken ships at
the bottom of the ocean.
DW: Wow. So you’re saying that this equity did not count towards
whatever currencies were created worldwide.
BF: No. It was taken off-market. This is a question of control. So, for example, the Thai royal family had lots and lots of gold.
They are not allowed to cash that - even to this day.
The same with the Persian gold, which was shipped to Thailand when the
Shah of Iran fell.
But again, let’s try to get to the thread. Let’s stick to the plot here.
We’ll go back to this stuff later.
BF: So in 1944, Britain, France and the United States were given a
fifty-year control over the global financial system. A fifty-year
They were supposed to develop and modernize the planet.
However, Roosevelt was poisoned - killed. He didn’t just die.
There was a fascist coup.
The military-industrial complex guys, instead of developing the planet,
they wanted this cold war between the Soviet Union and the West.
This was part of this Gog/Magog plan.
BF: In 1955, the non-aligned nations - that’s a 77-nation group,
including China, Indonesia, Yugoslavia, India - said this is crazy. We
don’t want to be part of this Cold War.
They had the historical rights to most of the Asian treasure.
DW: Were most of the Asian countries represented in the non-aligned
BF: Oh yeah! Pretty well all of them.
DW: How about South America?
BF: Yeah. A lot of the countries are there. Brazil was a part of
DW: How about Africa?
BF: Africa was still a proxy colony.
BF: The point is that 77 nations - I don’t have the list in front of me
now, but it included most of the people on the planet.
Just not the Soviet Union and North America - the European peoples,
They [the non-aligned nations] said they wanted to finance a Marshall
Plan for Asia and Africa - to modernize these regions.
DW: This is the non-aligned nations that wanted this.
BF: Yes. They pooled their treasure to finance this. There’s an international treaty that people who dug me can look up.
It’s called the Hilton Green Memorial.
DW: Right. I’ve seen you talk about that.
BF: [The Hilton Green Memorial] was the treaty where they wanted to
finance a Marshall Plan for developing Asia and Africa and the rest of
DW: And they had as their asset base these black-listed gold funds that
were in Thailand?
BF: Yes. And the signatory to all this money was President Sukarno of
Indonesia, who happened to be related to most of the royal families - at
least in Asia.
DW: Oh! So that’s why Indonesia, then. It’s because he had a blood
connection to these folks.
BF: Yes. They designated him as a signatory. When the Cuban Missile Crisis came, and the world nearly went to
all-out nuclear war, a guy named Benjamin Freedman came out.
He basically admitted these insane Gog-Magog plans [were real].
Kennedy and a lot of people in the US said,
“All right, this is
crazy. We don’t any more of this secret society craziness.”
He agreed to work with the non-aligned nations to end the Cold War, and
to finance the development of Africa and Asia.
To keep the military industrial people happy, he was going to send a man
to the moon - and do that kind of stuff.
DW: Did Benjamin Freedman also blow the whistle on what was going on
behind the Cuban Missile Crisis? Is that why you mentioned that?
BF: He said they’re trying to create this war so they can take over the
planet. There is plenty of evidence for this.
Kennedy got gold from Indonesia.
He put out Kennedy bonds and notes - dollar bills that were controlled
by the US Department of Treasury, not the Federal Reserve Board.
DW: That was
Executive Order 11110, right?
BF: Yeah, something like that. [Kennedy] was killed.
Then Sukarno was driven from power.
DW: By whom, are you saying? Who drove Sukarno from power?
BF: By the West. By the military-industrial complex. By the Cabal, as I
The people who own the Federal Reserve Board. These Sabbatean sectists.
DW: Couldn’t the Asian societies designate a new signatory that would
bring these blacklisted funds online and create a new currency that
would compete with the dollar?
BF: Well, they didn’t have the military power.
BF: What they did is they went underground. They didn’t sign over
anything. We have Sukarno’s nephew. [He] has signed over the rights to us now.
We’ll get back to that. What happened was that in 1968, they set up a fake heir. A fake
DW: “They” is the Asian societies?
BF: No no. This would be
the Rockefellers and all these
The Bushes. The people behind the murder of Kennedy. The members
of this Sabbatean cabal.
DW: They set up a fake heir [who would allegedly gain the rights] to
BF: They forged the rights to use that money as a basis for issuing
currency. For creating dollars.
They didn’t have the historical rights to 85 percent of the world’s gold
that was owned by the Asians - but they faked the rights.
They forged documents to claim they had the rights.
DW: So they wanted to repatriate this gold they had taken out of the
market before Bretton Woods was convened.
BF: Some of it was laundered
by BCCI, Chase Manhattan Bank, Black Eagle
Trust and a few other of these groups.
It was this gold that was illegally laundered from these Asian stashes
that financed the black ops and the various secret doings.
DW: So this gets back to what you were saying in the 1930s, where the
Japanese troops were confiscating gold from the Kuomintang.
BF: Right. That was taken either to the Philippines or to Japan. At
first to Japan, and then when it got too iffy, they
(the gold) it over
to the Philippines.
DW: Now that wasn’t kept in any type of Federal Reserve Bank for those
countries. That was kept in some kind of private storage that was
BF: It was hidden. There are about 125 known sites where it was hidden.
DW: Wow. How much tonnage are we talking about here? How much gold was it?
BF: What I’ve been told is [this].
The story we’ve all been told about how all the gold ever mined in
history could fit into one or two Olympic swimming pools… is a total
There’s at least nine times or ten times more off-market gold than there
is officially tradable gold.
DW: My God!
BF: Some of it, like I say, was laundered by the CIA types to finance
BF: Now again, I want to take a little side trip here. One of these
Asian secret society groups I contacted worked in
the Golden Triangle
during the Vietnam War.
DW: Where is that?
BF: That’s the area between China and Vietnam where they were producing
all the heroin in those years.
DW: Oh goodness.
BF: And they were selling heroin to the CIA. And the CIA was selling the
heroin to finance their black ops.
DW: So they had quite a markup off of the original price that they were
BF: It was a big business that was out of the control of governments.
What happened was the Asians contacted their old CIA contacts.
“What the hell are you guys doing? Why are you spreading diseases
and trying to start World War III?”
So a lot of these CIA bad guys came out and started helping us. It
was kind of ironic, but it’s still welcome.
DW: Maybe they’re trying to avoid the hangman’s noose, right? [Laughs]
BF: They realized they were being fooled by this fake anti-communism.
They didn’t like being fooled and used.
DW: I did speak to one guy who worked in the CIA and actually worked
with one of the recent American presidents in cocaine smuggling.
He explained to me, in quite some detail, the rationale behind why they
felt it was necessary to try to control the flow of cocaine.
They have all these rationalizations. “We don’t want people to die from
bad cocaine.” “If we can control it, then we know exactly where it’s
BF: “Plus we get these Swiss bank accounts, with all this money.” You
DW: Right! Exactly.
BF: …Which helps lubricate your conscience a little bit… but still.
BF: [Laughs] Anyway, let’s get back to the main flow.
In 1994, the Bretton Woods mandate expired.
DW: Right. You said this was a 60-year commission that started in 1944.
BF: A 50-year commission. Before that, they stole the money from the
foreign holdings, the dollar holdings of the Soviet Union.
DW: I’m sorry, I want to ask you one dumb question, though. You’re
saying 1944, but World War II didn’t end until 1945.
BF: The Bretton Woods conference was in 1944. They already knew what was
going to be the result [from World War II]. That’s open history. Bretton
Woods is an open secret.
DW: So you said that the mandate expired in 1944 after a 50-year term.
BF: Yes. It wasn’t renewed. They said, “Hey, France, United States and Britain. You didn’t
modernize the world. You didn’t keep your promises.”
DW: Who is “they” in this case?
BF: It would be all the other countries. Remember, you have [about] 200
countries that have sovereign rights still.
DW: So they would have to ratify the agreement to get it to renew. They
would have to sign off on it.
BF: Right. So there has been no real agreement at the top of the global
financial system since then.
DW: So the only reason why it hasn’t changed any faster is they don’t
have the military muscle to do anything about this.
BF: That’s part of it. President
Clinton, he started… these guys were thinking,
with it. We’re just going to start World War III and get ourselves out
of this mess by killing everybody.”
Clinton started off by allowing 100 times leverage. Gambling 100 times.
So with one dollar, you could buy 100 dollars’ worth of tickets.
If it goes from 100 dollars to 200 dollars, then your one dollar is
multiplied by a hundredfold.
turned the financial system into extreme gambling.
DW: Were they using these confiscated gold accounts from the Kuomintang
to back that up?
BF: Yeah. They didn’t have any legal backing anymore, but they were
going ahead with it anyway. Now what happened was in 1998, the Chinese sued the Federal Reserve
“Hey. You’ve got to give us back our gold. We have these contracts. We gave you the gold. The sixty years is up.
Give us back the gold!”
DW: Why would they have waited four years? Why 1998?
BF: 1938 was when the seven shiploads of gold was sent to the United
States from China.
BF: There were many shipments, but in 1938, seven battleships evacuated
Chinese gold from China to the United States to avoid it being taken by
They gave the Chinese all these Federal Reserve Board bonds, promising
to give the gold back in 60 years.
DW: Is there any recorded history of that?
BF: Oh yeah! The Chinese have elaborate documentation, which is why this
whole lawsuit is taking place.
DW: Is any of that documentation public domain, though? …Yet.
BF: It’s all going to be there
in that lawsuit, so it’s public domain
once it goes into the lawsuit.
I’ve seen lots of pictures. I don’t know, I’m not an expert in arcane
DW: Right, but as a financial journalist you have certainly had contacts
Would the average Western economist have known about these shipments in
BF: Yeah, that would have been headline news. I’m sure if you go back to
a newspaper archive, you would find stories about it.
DW: Terrific. OK, great.
BF: This is something you can find. Just go to an archive. I’m sure
you’ll find stories about Chinese gold being evacuated.
DW: So this was done by the US military to protect the Kuomintang gold
from the Japanese army.
DW: …Which was actually the Rothschilds.
BF: Let’s leave all that stuff out for now.
BF: The point is that in 1998, the Chinese owners of the gold sued the
Federal Reserve Board, and said “Give us back our gold.”
The Federal Reserve Board people argued that they didn’t have to give
back the gold.
[They said they had paid in full] because they gave a bunch of gold to
Chairman Mao in the 1970s when the United States renewed relations with
DW: Could you be more technical than what you said… “a bunch?” What are
we talking, here?
BF: Two hundred thousand tons?
DW: Geez. But two hundred thousand tons is not going to fill seven
BF: That’s the point. They lost the case.
BF: The International Court of Justice said “You guys have to give back
the gold you took.”
They said “Okay.” The first shipment of gold they were supposed to give
back was due to be sent back on September 12th, 2001.
DW: Jesus Christmas!
BF: And of course, as you know,
the World Trade Center got blown up on
The gold that was in the basement went missing. Cantor Fitzgerald Securities, the company that was handling the
paperwork, was blown up - and all 600 of their employees were killed.
DW: Was that in Building 7?
BF: No, this was in [one of] the [two main] World Trade center
Building 7, where the Treasury police and all these people were, was
blown up - and all the paperwork there was blown up.
Basically, they were saying, “We’re not giving back the gold!”
DW: It leads one to reason that if charges were placed in the World
Trade Center when it was constructed - I believe it was constructed in
the 1970s, right?
BF: Look, I don’t want to… there was plenty of evidence.
President Bush’s brother was in charge of security at the World Trade
Center. There was all sorts of construction going on there.
DW: I’m just trying to think with the audience here. We’re talking
really fast, and some of these things are just going to make them go
head over heels.
They’re going to be reeling when they hear this.
You are exposing an absolutely incredible through-line that shows more
compellingly than any other motive I’ve ever heard of why, specifically,
did the World Trade Center come down. There was this massive gold cache underneath the World Trade Center,
and they snuck it out - I guess by some kind of railroad tracks or
something, right, on a train?
BF: It was shipped to California and then I believe to Paraguay.
DW: Oh my God. So China must have known they got rolled. When they saw
the World Trade Center come down, they must have suspected something
BF: Of course they knew! They said “These bastards aren’t going to pay
us back. They’re trying to start World War III.”
DW: Holy cow!
BF: And what happened was they quintupled the US military budget with
War on Terror.
DW: Right. And you’ve got this Patriot Act, which is five inches thick
of paper that just spontaneously showed up.
BF: Yeah, which is identical to the Nazi constitution, OK?
DW: Oh my God.
BF: And more to the point is that they had this… and there’s a lot of
insider evidence about this.
They had this plan to start this whole Gog and Magog thing again.
This time the plan involved starting a limited nuclear war between Iran
They were going to use that war as an excuse to set up martial law in
the G7 countries.
DW: What’s the timeframe you are talking about for when this was being
BF: They’ve been trying it for quite a long time now - ever since 2001,
DW: So just to set up the chessboard now, we’re post-9/11.
The Chinese know that they’ve been rolled - that this gold has once
again been stolen.
China wants to get their gold back. In the meantime, the Rockefeller
faction in the US…
BF: 'They' are building up their military.
are trying to get the
Western countries on a full, militarized basis to prepare for World War
DW: And what’s that going to do for them? 'They' want to reduce population
and they want to wipe out the Chinese?
BF: And they don’t want to lose control. 'They' don’t want to lose power.
'They' still have their Messianic, fascist, cultist beliefs that they are
destined to rule humanity.
The Israeli newspapers openly referred to China and Russia and Iran as
Magog, and the G5 and G7 as Gog.
'They' were trying to get all these countries to kill each other. 'They'
were trying to start World War III.
I’ve seen a map where 'they' were trying to divide China into six
DW: Like balkanize it. Yeah.
BF: Post-World War III. What happened was that the Pentagon realized through their game
scenarios that if they started all-out World War III, 90 percent of
humanity would die - including most of them.
So they didn’t want to go along with it. They constantly prevented
attacks on Iran. They stopped Israeli air
They invaded Georgia to stop an Israeli attack on Iran from there.
They didn’t want to start World War III, because they realized it was
DW: You’re talking about the South Ossetia war now?
BF: Yeah. That was an Israeli air base that was designed to attack Iran
and start this whole thing.
DW: Oh, wow.
BF: It’s truly crazy stuff, but the evidence is right there in front of
Like I said, the Israeli newspapers openly talked about it - in Haaretz,
and places like that.
What happened now was a counter-plot. They sent these people to cash
a trillion dollars’ worth of these bonds that were given to them by the
DW: So [when you say “They”,] you’re saying now that the Asian Secret
[They] control enough gold that if it were repatriated, it would be
thousands of trillions of dollars - that’s what it says in the legal
DW: They created a sting operation with these guys…
BF: Together with the CIA guys who they used to work with in Southeast
DW: Who don’t want
the Powers that Were to still be running the show.
BF: Yeah. They realized they were insane and incompetent. They were one
level below these guys and knew that they were crazy.
DW: When we write this up and we have this all transcribed on my
website, I’m going to embed videos for people and the original articles
[These articles and videos] demonstrate the mainstream media - to a
limited degree, because hardly anybody would touch this story - saying
that these guys were detained on the border in Italy, I believe, with
134.5 billion dollars in 1934 bonds. Right?
BF: Yes. Now this is very important. There are a couple things you need to
let people realize when they try to create disinformation about this.
DW: OK, great.
BF: The guys’ names… I have talked to both of them.
I was involved because I got called by the P2 Freemason lodge. I talked
to some of the Italian Treasury police who arrested them.
First of all, they said the bonds were forgeries - but neither Yamaguchi
nor Watanabe were arrested. They were let go. Then the Italians said that there was a trial, but there is no
record of a trial.
There is no record of these bonds being officially confiscated. We do have evidence that Prime Minister Berlusconi tried to cash
We do have evidence that Ban Ki-Moon, the head of the UN, came
forward and said “We’ll give you 100 million dollars to go away and
forget about this whole thing.”
BF: We have the Davos World Forum [as well].
In other words, we can prove that the head of the UN, the UN, the
Davos World Forum and Prime Minister Berlusconi, among others, were
involved in this theft.
And that’s a provable case, OK?
These people [such as Berlusconi, Ban-Ki Moon and others] were followed.
They were recorded. They were videotaped.
This is all provable in a court of law - which is why we went through a
DW: OK, but let’s get one thing clear, though. These bonds were
generated in 1934, by the Federal Reserve.
But, in 1934 they made sure that if China ever actually tried to use
these bonds, they would appear fraudulent when they were attempted to be
BF: Yeah. There are deliberate typos. And the numbers themselves are
astronomical. You’ve got to understand that there are two financial systems in the
The stuff that’s on the books, in there, according to the official
government statistics, the world GDP is 63 trillion dollars, right?
DW: Mm hm.
BF: And then we have these bonds that are supposedly worth 371 trillion
There’s a disconnect.
DW: What bonds are worth 371 trillion?
BF: The total amount held by the Dragon Family. The 85 percent of the
world’s gold and treasure. That’s how much it was assessed at.
DW: OK. So this is the stuff that was blacklisted - prior to Bretton
BF: This is what Sukarno’s nephew gave us power of attorney to sue over.
DW: And that power of attorney was specifically given to
Neil Keenan, as
cited in your document.
BF: Yeah, and Keith Scott. That [power of attorney was granted] just to
say “Hey, you guys stole gold and treasure that doesn’t belong to you.” What makes this lawsuit scary to the people who run the financial
system is they have the legal right now to open what is known as a
This is esoteric stuff. You’ve got to remember that 95 percent of the
money in the world exists only as numbers in a computer. Only five
percent of it exists as cash money.
DW: That’s like most people’s bank account too, right? Unless you
withdraw the money, it’s just in a computer.
BF: Yeah. But otherwise what you get is a book entry with numbers.
BF: There’s high-level codes that allow you to punch in… you go through
the secret stuff, you punch in your access code and whatever.
Then you type in a billion dollars, and bingo - there’s a billion
dollars. Now that’s a pretty nice little thing to have your hands on. You can
see why these guys don’t want to give it up.
DW: These guys meaning the Western powers.
BF: Not the Western powers, but the Sabbateans who are above and behind
the Western powers.
I’m talking about the Rockefellers, the Rothschilds and all these kinds
DW: So these "black screens" are part of the same financial system that
was created by Bretton Woods.
BF: It’s the current version. It’s the ultimate high-tech computer
network where the money is all supposedly hidden.
BF: The problem is because no one was in charge at the top, and there
was no agreement, different groups started creating ridiculous numbers.
I’ve heard that there are now quintillions of dollars that they’ve tried
to put into the system.
DW: I’ve heard that as well.
BF: And that’s like 33 orders of magnitude more than there is of real
So the system is broken. It has mathematically malfunctioned at the
DW: Now one of the insider things that I have heard… it’s something I’ve
never said publicly before, but it’s an important point.
It’s my understanding that as a result of Bretton Woods, central banks
were forbidden from directly trading with one another.
They had to have civilian intermediaries who were actually the bond
holders - who actually kept the equity in their own private accounts.
Part of Bretton Woods was that these people were supposed to deposit 80
percent of the yield, as this money was created out of thin air, into
humanitarian relief programs.
Would you agree with that?
BF: I have heard something along those lines. And I know at least a
couple of people who do this trading between governments.
[I know] one of 20 people at
the BIS who are authorized to do this
stuff. I talk directly to them.
BF: The problem is that if they open these screens - and we have the
access codes now - they will realize that the money wasn’t used mostly
for humanitarian purposes.
It was stolen and used for military-industrial purposes.
DW: When you say “open the black screens,” is that the equivalent of
what you were calling
the Book of Maklumat that came from Suharto in
BF: The Book of Maklumat is one of several physical account entries that
would allow people to open up this can of worms and prove that money was
DW: Is there one copy of it only?
BF: No, there are many copies of it hidden all over the place now, of
course, because it’s such a sensitive issue.
DW: But who has the jurisdiction to go after these guys? That’s one of
the problems with this.
BF: That’s the problem! We are in kind of uncharted territory. We don’t
have the structures right now.
The United Nations are run by a bunch of gangsters. A lot of the world
leaders have been bribed and blackmailed into obeying these people.
So what’s happening is we are entering into a kind of vacuum. We need to
set up new structures, new systems, a new way of running the planet.
DW: But if the Euro and the dollar become bankrupt, people are going to
be really pissed - and those changes could happen pretty quickly.
BF: The Euro is already bankrupt. You can see the IMF, which is
supposedly the highest financial body on Earth, is saying they don’t
have any money.
DW: [Laughs] That’s scary.
BF: When Russia was bankrupt, it was the IMF that bailed them out. And
the so-called IMF doesn’t have money.
That’s because they don’t have a legal mandate. It expired in 1994.
They’re just a bunch of people claiming to have the right. No one gave
it to them.
DW: That means these non-aligned nations you’re referring to, they are
not accepting the bubble money that’s being created in the computers
They are not accepting that equity?
BF: It’s all being blacklisted - kept out of the system.
That’s why the dollar hasn’t… you haven’t had hyperinflation in the
United States. That money is not being put into the system.
Otherwise, all these numbers announced by the Fed - if you do the math,
there should be hyperinflation, but there isn’t - because it’s not being
allowed into the system.
It is a mess - but here’s the real point.
The creation of money, in a way, is the process of deciding what we
as a species will do in the future.
And it’s being controlled by religious fanatics who wanted to carry out
Old Testament prophecies. It’s really wacko and mind-boggling.
Most of us ordinary humans, like any Miss America candidate, or pretty
well any guy you pick off the street, will say, “End poverty, stop
environmental destruction, and make everyone rich and happy.” Stuff like
It’s not rocket science. What we want in the future is not what the
current set of leaders has in mind.
They want World War III and killing four billion people, and the rule of
an elite over a slave population. We don’t want that!
DW: We’ve revealed something in this interview that I’ve never heard you
say publicly before.
The amount of gold that is here [is huge]… all of the confiscating of
the Roman Empire, [as well as the Spanish conquistadores,] pulled it out
of these ancient places where it already was.
It somehow all made its way over to China because of silk trading, and
this and that, and opium.
BF: [crosstalk] Asia. Asia. Spice, silk, ceramics…
DW: Right. So there’s this massive amount of gold that could put us back
on a gold standard, where currency is tethered to something of real
BF: The problem with a gold standard, if you talk to the people… and one
group that supported us are the people who used to control the gold.
As far as they’re concerned, the “Golden Rule” is “He who has the gold…
makes the rules.”
BF: Well, that’s not really a viable alternative to fiat money, if you
BF: What I personally support is we need multiple different groups that
have some kind of planning function into the future.
Whatever they do has to be based on stuff that exists in the real world.
There is a discipline in reality that you cannot escape. If you grow
wheat, that wheat exists. And then you can put out a receipt that says
“This is good for wheat.”
But, if you just put out a receipt that is backed by nothing, it doesn’t
exist. It’s just a fact of nature. What I’ve supported… I came here in the 80s when Japan was number
one. It was the country of the future.
They had a system which I thought was the best we’ve seen so far on this
They had what was known as an economic planning agency. They would draw
an idea of where we want to be as a country five years from now.
Everyone would be consulted. People would say we want more roads, we
want more sewage, we want more schools, we want a space station,
Then they would draw up plans. The Bank of Japan would go around and
figure out how much money they could print that was backed by real
stuff, without causing inflation.
Backed by real stuff means real estate, gold, rice, anything real. Then
private industry would actually carry it out.
What they had was fast economic growth, for decades - close to ten
percent a year.
They had the lowest gap between the poor and the rich in any developed
country, and probably any country on Earth. It was the Americans who came in and bullied them and forced them to
dismantle that system.
This is why they’ve had stagnation for the past 23 years.
The Chinese are still using a system similar to the old Japanese
system, which is why they still have fast economic growth!
DW: Wow. Okay.
BF: So what I’m saying is that you need some people who are selected
because they are very smart, because they passed a good exam, who are
given the job of carrying out people’s wishes in a realistic manner.
So everybody says “This is what we want the world to be in five years.”
Then these guys try to make it real by focusing on numbers and stuff
that can actually be done.
Now I’m not saying we want a single planning agency for the whole
planet. I’m saying this could be one of many competing groups trying to
create new projects for the future.
The CIA guys and these people I talk to, and the Rothschild faction that
is helping us, they want their own new offshore centers where they can
carry out their own plans and projects for the planet.
And that’s fine. I don’t think we want a centralized control network. But we do need
to make sure that anything that does exist is disciplined by reality.
It has to be based in something real.
The system should be that if someone takes a log and carves it into a
totem pole, they have created money.
DW: [Laughs] Yeah.
BF: It shouldn’t be some guy with a computer, some powerful oligarch
with a computer punching numbers and acting like God - which is what we
have now. The other thing, of course, is that if you look at reality right
now, the fact of the matter is that the European countries, the United
States and Australia have been getting more stuff from the rest of the
world than they have been giving.
DW: Right. The only export they have is “Financial Products,” which is
basically bubble money.
BF: And weapons. The United States has the world’s best universities still. They have
a very intelligent, well-educated, hardworking population.
And, they have all this high tech that has been suppressed for so-called
national security reasons.
So if we can get these scumbags out of power in the Federal Reserve
Board and free the people, the potential for a boom such as has never
been seen before is right there. It’s ready!
But first, we have to let the old system collapse. These guys are not
going to go quietly into the night. They are threatening war still. They
are still trying to attack Iran.
I’ve had reports now that they are planting nuclear bombs in the seabed
off the shore of Tokyo to create another tsunami here.
BF: They’re up to all sorts of nasty stuff. And we have to stop them.
DW: Now you’ve said before that one of the enforcement arms that could
come into play, now that you’ve driven the wedge with this lawsuit, is
The good guys in the Pentagon could at some point actually do mass
arrests at gunpoint of, as you’ve said, I believe most of the House of
Representatives and the Senate.
[This is] because these guys have private accounts in the Vatican Bank
and they have been bribed, right?
DW: You’re [also] talking about the heads of the top five media
companies that have been controlling the media to promote this agenda.
These guys [in the Pentagon] are preparing to move on that at some
BF: They’re not quite sure what to do next. That’s the problem. There’s
a lot of confusion. It’s one thing to say “All right, let’s put these
guys in jail” - but then they say, “Well, now what?”
There’s no coherent plan in place for what’s next. Keenan and his people
have their ideas. I’ve got mine. Other people have their own plans
they’re all pushing.
What I do believe, though, is that yes - you do need to get the
out-and-out criminals out of power. Put them under house arrest. You
don’t have to put them in jail.
Most of them… it’s one of those systems. I don’t know if you’ve seen
the movie The Scorpion King.
It’s one of those movies where you come in to the top of the pyramid,
you beat the guy in a swordfight, you show up at the top of the stairs
with his head in hand and everybody bows down to you. [Growling voice:]
BF: Most of these guys are used to that pyramid system. If you change
the top, they automatically go along with the new program.
They say “Hey, I was just following the pharaoh”, you know?
BF: So it could be a system where you don’t even have to put anybody in
jail. You just say “OK, we’ve changed the plan now. There’s a new game
plan. Now instead of building pyramids, you’re going to be building
And they say, “OK, let’s go for it!”
But, having said that, there are a lot of incompetent gangsters at
the highest levels of power who shouldn’t be there. They don’t know how
to run a country and they don’t know how to run a planet.
And they don’t belong in that job.
And I mean
Obama among others. His
record proves it!
I think he’s folded way too many times to the pressure groups around
him. Well, he’s just a puppet. That’s the fact of the matter. What we do need to have, as quick as possible, is an open debate. We
want to get everybody in on it, so that we can say, “What are we going
to do next?”
It’s one thing to get rid of the old system, but if you don’t have
anything ready in place, you end up with chaos.
You end up with a loss of civilization. You end up with collapse of
That’s one thing we all agree we don’t want.
There has got to be a transition towards a better way of running the
planet that’s not going to destroy, but build.
DW: I don’t mean to play devil’s advocate here, but [you have said] the
Asian Secret Societies and the non-aligned nations have put this squeeze
play [on the Western economy.]
[Now,] as of our interview, November 28th, there’s stuff
in the news
saying the Euro isn’t even going to last ten days. [That means] we don’t have a lot of time to make those decisions.
People are going to start suffering when these collapses that you guys
apparently have helped to engineer finally happen.
BF: Unfortunately, because the people in power in the United States, in
Washington, in Wall Street and in Europe are being very stubborn, they
are acting like Hitler was at the end of World War II:
“I will let Germany collapse before I will move from power.”
There is going to be a really tough winter in the United States and in
Europe as things stand now.
These guys are not going peacefully and quietly into the night. They are
not accepting that we need a fundamental change in how we run this
That is why it is going to be a tough winter unless you hurry up and get
these guys out.
DW: Well, they’re going to have incredibly powerful disinformation
campaigns that will do everything they can to make you appear to be a
fool, and that everything you are saying is a lie.
DW: [They will strongly argue] that if this [Asian] group actually
succeeds, it’s the New World Order, it’s the Illuminati, it’s fascism,
martial law, FEMA camps and all the things they’ve been trying to get
people afraid of.
So how do you counter that?
BF: The reality of the situation is stronger than the propaganda.
They can talk all they want. They say “Well, now I’ve got a quadrillion
dollars. A quintillion dollars. See, it’s in my computer!”
Then go try to spend it. See what happens! See how far you get with
Bush was trying to flee to Paraguay, and they stopped him.
See what happens when he takes his black card, or whatever they have,
and he goes to the store, and they say “Sorry. You can’t buy anything.”
These guys will be just street trash once their money is frozen. And
it’s being frozen.
DW: Right now you’re saying there isn’t really a consensus within the
Pentagon as to when or if to do these so-called mass arrests.
BF: I don’t know. What I do know is these Pentagon people always told me
they are waiting for this lawsuit to be a trigger.
Now there’s a lot of, “OK, well, it’s there. We understand that the
system is rotten and broken, but we’re not quite sure what to do next.”
There’s a lot of behind-the-scenes negotiating and talking and running
As things stand, unfortunately it looks like things are going to have to
get more chaotic before these people’s minds are concentrated enough
that they’re ready to start building new systems, new agreements to
share this planet.
DW: The basic [idea] that I have said as an operating principle is that
Western and Asian civilization need to start out with an exactly 50-50
deal that underlines whatever it is that we start building on top of the
We don’t want, suddenly, Europeans and Americans to be taking orders
from Asians. And the Asians are tired of having the Europeans tell them
what to do.
We need to have a forum where we reach a consensus. We both agree, “Yes,
that’s a good idea.”
Build a space colony? “Yes, that’s a good idea.” What side would all the Islamic countries be in that 50/50?
BF: The Islamic countries are basically with us, except for a few
colonies that are still controlled by the cultists, pretending to be
Essentially, they’re just afraid of ending up the way Khadafi did, so
they are keeping their heads low - but they are essentially with us.
BF: What we really need to do now is to get the Jewish people to realize
that their leaders, a lot of them, were a part of an insane cult.
They shouldn’t allow those people to speak for them as a people. These
are the same people behind the Holocaust, you know?
DW: Right. The atrocity is too boggling for most people’s minds to even
BF: Exactly. That’s what they were counting on. It’s just too big for
people to wrap their minds around.
But all this is provable, you know?
DW: Right. One thing I want to make sure we cover before we would end this
interview is this presentation of this legal document.
The law firm that is listed on the document is Bleakley, Platt and
Schmidt LLP, in White Plains, New York.
The principal attorney behind it is William H. Mulligan, Jr.
I’ve been to their website. They are definitely a very bonafide legal
firm. I haven’t actually called them yet, but I plan on calling Mulligan
and asking him just to verify that this suit is real.
It’s a hyper-complex document. It’s loaded with numbers,
documentation, with names.
I’m still on the receiving end of tons of hateful comments people are
directing towards you.
I hope this document will do a lot to allay those concerns - because it
is very comprehensive.
BF: You’ve got to remember [this].
The people behind that lawsuit are an important group within the West
that support a move towards a more sane international financial system -
but they are not the only group out there.
A lot of people know that something needs to be done. Like I say, it’s a situation right now.
My understanding is that chaos is the best word to describe what is
happening right now within the leadership circles of the Western world.
I would even include Japan in that. There’s a lot of confusion. People
don’t know what to do next. It’s important to have a lot of open debate and truth disclosure, so
that people can make informed decisions.
I don’t think this should be handled behind closed doors anymore. I
think this should be open to the public.
If people have specific things where they think I am either wrong or
crazy, I am happy to answer it.
There is no point responding to slander, but if there are real arguments
there, I would be happy to listen to them.
DW: When I did my due diligence on the document, my biggest concern,
which I published on your forum, was that in section 33, there is a
series of eight sentences regarding the World Economic Forum.
When I was concerned about whether the document was legitimate, I looked
up World Economic Forum on Wikipedia.
The sentences on Wikipedia were almost exactly the same as what is in
the legal document.
BF: Sure! The guy writing the legal document says,
“All right. We know
the Davos World Economic Forum [is involved], because there is a tape
recording of a conversation with Giancarlo Bruno, who is the head of
financial services at the World Economic Forum, [discussing it].”
So we have evidence, forensic evidence, that they are linked.
But then [we say] OK, so what is the World Economic Forum, anyway?
So the lawyer goes to Wikipedia and cuts and pastes eight sentences.
Sure. That’s what people do. Even lawyers writing up legal documents.
DW: The other mistake that I made publicly, which I want to correct, to
your credit, was that in the document, the Office of International
Treasury Control was referred to.
I didn’t read the document carefully enough when I wrote my comments to
see that in the legal document, the legitimacy of this OITC and its
alleged UN charter is challenged. In other words, they attack the OITC.
When you look at
the OITC website, it is painfully amateur. It made me
have to reload my browser in 32-bit mode. The videos were done in Power
Point. There are lots of grammatical errors on the website. It’s a joke!
BF: Yeah. It’s a joke. The guy
R.C. Dam, who they supposedly put up as the
guy who was in charge, is some Cambodian guy… he’s on the run now. He’s
fled. People don’t know where he is.
He was raised by the CIA. He was just a front man.
DW: If you actually look up OITC, Office of International Treasury
on Wikipedia, you read about this massive fraud that these guys
- posing as the OITC, which was allegedly where the equity of the
world’s banks is being kept - instilled a fraud on Fiji.
They were allegedly going to finance Fiji with billions of dollars -
which obviously did not come to pass.
Any conventional con-man would have to have really brass balls to try to
defraud an entire country like that!
BF: These guys probably realized that the people who actually control
the financial system themselves were basing it on fraud. So they were
trying to get a piece of the action.
That’s my reading of it. What I do want to emphasize is that even though
Keenan and Scott have power of attorney right now, they shouldn’t be put
in charge of running the planet. We need an open discussion involving lots of people. That discussion
is going to take place at the forum of 117 nations, the Monaco Accords,
who have agreed to set up a new financial system.
We need to get the G5 nations and their satellite countries to
participate in these discussions, so we can as quickly as possible come
up with new global structures to replace the corrupt and rotten UN,
World Bank, BIS and IMF with something more representative of the people
I don’t mean a global government. I mean a common set of rules for the
planet we all share, the air we all breathe and the oceans we all use.
Not some centralized New World Order control grid. All right?
DW: Absolutely! Now is the Malaysian war crimes tribunal that
found Bush and Blair
guilty of war crimes, is that in any way related to this 117-nation
BF: No. It’s just another sign that humanity is waking up, and they are
tired of being controlled by this criminal cabal.
But, no consensus has been come up with about what to do next.
However, I can say this. There is a lot of support for my idea for a
new international economic planning agency to do things like turn the
deserts green and replenish the oceans with fish, and stop environmental
Not as a world government, but simply as some group that carries out
big, long-term and large-scale projects for the benefit of the people
and the living organisms of this planet.
DW: Yeah. And I think that a lot of the people in these groups don’t
want to be working for the bad guy. They want to save face.
BF: Exactly! They all want to save the planet, so let’s do it!
Listen, I have to go, but thanks for talking to me.
DW: I really appreciate it, Ben. This has been a great interview. My
prayers and support are with you guys. There was one other thing I just wanted to toss in briefly about the
Office of International Treasury Control. And that is that I made a
When I went back and read your document, it clearly states that this was
a fraudulent organization, but that the UN is at fault because they
allowed this organization to prosper without ever publicly refuting
their alleged charter.
BF: That’s because Ban Ki-Moon himself, the head of the UN, is using
fraudulent documents as we talk to try to take over African countries -
just as they’re trying to use the same fraudulent documents to take over
DW: My God.
BF: Okay? He’s citing “seven families” as his authority.
families are the ones who founded the Federal Reserve Board.
And they have no authority! They’re a bunch of crooks and gangsters. And
we need to kick the bums out. All right?
DW: Thank you very much, Ben.
BF: I don’t want to end on a bad note. What we really need to do is end
poverty, stop environmental destruction, and create a wonderful new
future for the planet and the species on it.
DW: Well, we’re all behind you, and we look forward to the next update.
Thank you so much, Ben.
BF: Thank you very much.
DW: All right. Take care.
[END OF INTERVIEW]