from Part I



Hoagland, Hyperdimensions, Space and Time and Assorted Strange Connections

- Part II

This page continues the discussion of Hoagland - Part I


Q: (L) Okay, we want to ask about this Donestra named in the Imbrogno book.
A: Symbolic moniker. So is Solarion.

Q: (L) What is the source of this contact with this guy D F who channels this Donestra?
A: Source is partially 5th density, partially 4th density.

Q: (L) Is he really channeling Franz Liszt?
A: No. Mental imprint from hyperspace.

Q: (L) What was this device that came into his room that floated in front of his face and made the sound?
A: 4th density imprinting device.

Q: (L) What was it imprinting?
A: Knowledge.

Q: (L) Well, I would like to play like Franz Liszt! Why haven’t we had something like this? I want one of these!
A: You do not get to choose the nature of interaction with 4th density STS! Unless of course hamsters, chirpy little birds in cages and sweet, sad, dependent doggie "friends" get to choose the nature of their interactions with you!

Q: (L) So, you are comparing Mr. D F to a hamster, a bird, or a doggie?
A: It is the same thing.

Q: (L) And, he seems to be very obedient!

(T) So, they are just jerking him and other people around through him.
A: Yes.

Q: (L) Okay, another thing that Imbrogno noted was that they graphed the UFO sightings in this area, and what they found was that they occurred in these places over and over again. So, the guy goes out and investigates the sites and found, more often than not, these standing stones or stone chambers that have been connected to the ancient Celts. Now, this relates to my work with tracking the bloodlines in a way. The remark was made that dancing could charge the stones. But, some of these chambers are sometimes so small. My idea is that they are doorways.
A: Okay.

Q: (L) Well, there was a considerable series of sightings of these black boomerang type craft. Are these stones markers of doorways between densities?
A: Windows.

Q: (L) Do these windows open and close arbitrarily?
A: Electrical storm.

Q: (L) Can they be opened and closed by deliberate, engineered factors?
A: Yes.

Q: (L) What is the connection between the Celts and these flying black boomerangs?
A: None.

Q: (L) Then why is it that the Celts seem to have been the ones who erected these stones, and the stones and chambers seem to be connected with the black boomerangs?
A: If you build a house, then someone comes along and installs a 220 volt plug in it, what connection do you have with the clothes dryer?

Q: (T) Two different things. You build a house, somebody comes along and installs an improvement and uses it in another way.
A: Crystals make density and dimensional windows open from "time to time" thus making the oblivious quite obvious.

Q: (L) Are the craft always there and the crystalline structure of the stone causes the windows to open and make them visible?
A: If certain factors mitigate...


Q: Now, in a previous session when we were talking about the initial discussion about the brown dwarf, you compared the companion star to an electron. In the discussion of the electron, you said that an electron emits gravity. Recently you said that this companion star does not radiate. But, does it emit gravity?
A: Radiation is at lower end of scale, and gravity is present.

Q: I was reading about the interactions between twin star systems, and it is conjectured that when a companion star approaches its primary, that the primary star ’robs’ something from it. There are even photographs of gases flowing from the smaller star to the larger. Is this the case with this particular system?
A: Was.

Q: And it is now no longer the case?
A: Barely.

Q: I also read about these WIMPs, or Weakly Interactive Massive Particles, that they say are at the core of the sun, and that somehow they modulate the sun’s internal temperature. Do these WIMPs exist?
A: All exists which is imagined.

Q: (A) When looking for clues about Lodz, we came upon these pages of the guy from Lodz, whom I know. He speculates about faster than light particles. The main hypothesis is that neutrinos really travel faster than light. Is this the case?

FASTER THAN LIGHT: Richard Kerner (left) and Jakub Rembielinski (right) at ASI conference in Goslar, Germany, July 1996. Richard Kerner is best known as the one who developed the formalism of non-Abelian Kaluza-Klein theory, based on ideas of De Witt and Tulczyjew. Jakub Rembielinski, among other things, developed the theory of a tachyonic neutrino.

A: This is opening a doorway to hyperspace. Combine with those on the pathway of wormholes.

Q: (L) There have been a couple of movies that we have seen lately, ’The Sphere,’ and ’Event Horizon,’ about spaceships that go into black holes and then re-emerge with some very strange things going on. The whole idea of a space ship going into a black hole just sort of boggles my mind. I would like to know what would be experienced by a person or space ship that goes into a black hole? What would it be like?
A: Disintegration, followed by conversion to anti-material energy.

Q: (L) So it would not come out on the other side in another universe?

(A) It will.
A: Yes, but not as matter.

Q: (L) After something has gone into a black hole, can it then re-emerge into the material universe intact?
A: No.

Q: (L) So, once it’s gone in the black hole, it’s sayonara, hasta la vista?
A: Stars are also portals of this nature.

Q: (L) So, what we perceive as stars in the anti-matter universe would be black holes?
A: No, windows.

Q: (A) You mentioned hyperspace. What is hyperspace?
A: 4th through 7th density, except 4th only perceives it, as "living in the doorway." 

Q: (L) You say that stars are portals. What, specifically, are they portals for, of, from or to?
A: How about other dimension. Remember, density and dimensional concepts intersect. Density level relates more to conscious awareness, but dimensions house consciousness and all other.

Q: (L) So, you can have many ’houses’ along a row at one level and many at another level, in a vague sort of way?
A: Close. Think of hyperspace as 4th dimension.

Q: (A) Now, this business that space/time geometry builds a kind of singularity, changes the algebraic structure of the metric tensor; and I was trying to relate it to changing of density at some point...
A: Yes. The answer is in the pentagon.

Q: (L) Do you mean ’pentagon’ as in the government building, or as in the geometric structure?
A: Why do you suppose they are linked? Why is the "pentagon" a pentagon?

Q: (L) I don’t know. Why is it?
A: Answers are within your grasp.

Q: (A) What was this answer ’yes’ to the changing of density? Do you mean that it relates to what S___ was working on or that it connect to Kaluza Klein theories?
A: Both. Geometry... pentagon and hexagon, algebraic equations...


Q: (A) Now, I was following another clue, Einstein’s 1936 paper then describing Einstein-Rosen Bridge.
A: Yes.

Q: (A) This is a bridge between two different realms, so to say.
A: Yes.

Q: (A) But there is nothing in this idea, really, that relates to hyperspace in the sense of fifth dimensions, pentagons, hexagons. At least I could not see it.
A: Yes.

Q: (A) So there is another piece of information which has to be put together with this idea?
A: Yes.


Q: There is a remark in this Graham Hancock book about the pyramids which says here regarding the issue about iron:

’It is unsettling to discover in the Pyramid Texts, supposedly the work of Neolithic farmers who had hardly begun to master copper, that there were abundant references to iron. The name of it was B’ja, or the ’Divine Metal.’ We always encounter it in distinctive context to astronomy. For example, B’ja is frequently mentioned in the text in connection to the ’Four Sons of Horus,’ presumably related in some way to strange beings known as the Shemsu Hor, or the ’Followers of Horus,’ or the ’Transfigured Ones.’ At any rate, these very mysterious ’Sons of Horus’ seem to have been made of iron or to have had iron fingers. [...] It is clear that iron was somehow seen by the composers of the Pyramid Texts as being imperative in the rituals aimed at ensuring new life cosmic and stellar. The verses of the Texts connect the metal and its uses to the ancient prototype of all such rituals by means of which Osiris himself, Egypt’s ’Once and Future King,’ died and was restored to immortal life as Lord of the Sky Region of Orion. ’The doors of iron which are in the starry sky are thrown open for me and I go through them.’ It appears to be nothing less than an iron stargate intended to admit Osiris and all the dynasty of dead kings after him into the celestial realms of the belt of Orion. But, if the Pyramid Texts are describing a stargate, they are also describing a timegate for they express no doubt that by passing through the iron portals of the sky, the soul of the deceased will attain a life of millions of years.’

So, they are describing the Pyramid as a stargate, a timegate, a portal. However, they are doing so in figurative terms, that the person could mentally travel, or use this in some way. Could you comment on this bit about the iron stargate?
A: Iron is highly magnetic.

Q: Yes, we know that...
A: Opens doorways or portals.

Q: Were the Egyptians using the Pyramids to travel in time?
A: Maybe in a crude sense, more like an oracle.

Q: They say that there is a subterranean chamber under the sphinx that leads to all the other pyramids. Is this correct?
A: Yes. But more importantly, there is a buried capsule of sorts.

Q: Has this buried capsule been found?
A: Not uncovered, but the evidence exists.

Q: Are those Egyptians over there who are banning all the other people from excavating aware of this?
A: They fear ramifications.

Q: (L) Now, you said that the pyramid was built 10,643 years ago. That would be 8,649 BC. Is that a correct figure, or was there any corruption?
A: Yes. Correct.

Q: Then you talked about the pyramid as a focuser of energy to do ’all things’ or many things. Later we asked about Stonehenge and you said that StoneHenge was built 8,000 BC by Druids, an early Aryan group, as an energy director to do ’all things.’ This seems to be that both structures had similar design functions. Is that correct?
A: No. Stonehenge is a vector of energy derived from Solar and Cosmic rays. Pyramids focus electromagnetic energy from the atmosphere ambiently.

Q: If it was built in 8,000 BC, and the Pyramids were built 8,649 BC, which is 10,643 years ago, more or less, that means that they were built at almost the same time, or at least within 600 years of each other. If they were built at almost the same time, were they built by the same, or similar groups of people?
A: Atlantean descendants.

Q: Obviously the Great Pyramid is a marvel of engineering - and Stonehenge is as well - yet the two structures are so dissimilar. The Pyramid presents such a finished and sharp and elegant appearance, and Stonehenge might give a person - of course that is based on how it appears today - a more primitive presentation.
A: Was not originally.

Q: Did they work in conjunction with one another and did the two groups that built them in communication with one another?
A: No and yes. Offshoots of same group.

Q: Were they antagonistic toward one another or were they friendly toward one another?
A: No, yes.

Q: If the flood of Noah, as you have said before, occurred 10,662 BC, that means that the Pyramid and Stonehenge were built more than 2,000 years after this event.
A: Yes.

Q: Did it take 2,000 years for them to develop or create the technology?
A: No.

Q: What were they doing in those 2,000 years?
A: Reassembling.

Q: In that 2,000 years of reassembling, do you mean reassembling as a group through reincarnative processes...
A: All. Built using sound wave technology.

Q: When you say that it was built using sound wave technology, were these sound waves produced by human voices or by instruments or mechanical devices of some sort?
A: Mostly latter.

Q: What kind of a device would this be? What would you call it?
A: Something like tuning fork.

Q: It would be something that could be struck and would produce a sound that could then be directed in some way?
A: A sound enhancing collector/focuser. Must be like a two-way antenna; solidly brass or bronze.

Q: Other than a solid piece of metal, were there any other internal parts such as a mechanism of some sort?
A: Silicon arterial wand.

Q: (A) Can we see somewhere a picture of this?
A: No pictures exist to where you have access.

Q: (L) Was the pyramid itself ever used as a sounding mechanism, the chambers?
A: Not exactly.

Q: How many chambers or cells are there in the Great Pyramid?
A: 19.

Q: So, there are some that have not been found yet. Now, according to this book, the ’Message of the Sphinx,’ they are saying that the orientation of the pyramid complex which includes the Sphinx, designates or denotes a time, or replicates on the ground the pattern of Orion related to the constellation of Leo exactly 10,500 years ago. What is the significance of this date 10,500 years ago?
A: Complex, but what about Orion?!?

Q: What about Orion?
A: For you to surmise. No. Now you should study all you can about supernovae.

Q: Okay, there was a mention of a supernovae in this book. Was there a supernova at that particular time?
A: Maybe, but the real question should be: Will there be one again, and soon?

Q: They have said that this designates the lowest point of Orion in the precessional cycle, the nadir of the cycle, and that the midheaven would be 2400 AD. If you have the representation of this precessional nadir, what is the next ’notch’ on the clock? Is it going to be the midheaven of the cycle 400 years or so from now?
A: Best not to assume without adequate date.

Q: Okay. Well, the other thing that they mentioned was that this orientation of the Sphinx and the Pyramids dealt with what is called ’Zep Tepi.’ It says:

’In their most profound and beautiful religious texts, the ancient Egyptians spoke of the Time of the Gods, Zep Tepi, or the First Time, with the unshakeable conviction that there had indeed been such an epoch. In other words, they believed that Zep Tepi had been an actual historical event. In line with their prevailing dualism, they also believed that it had been projected and recorded in the catalogue of the starry sky, and it was a story that was reenacted endlessly in the cosmic setting by the cyclical displays of the celestial orbs and the constellations. What they had in mind was a kind of Cosmic Passion Play in which each main character was identified with a specific celestial body. Zep Tepi was regarded as a mysterious and golden age that had immediately followed creation.’

What can you comment about this Zep Tepi? Was Zep Tepi the time of the first civilization that had existed immediately after creation?
A: You are pursuing a "dead end" there.

Q: Okay, we will study supernovae.

(A) I have a question: A piece from Einstein’s biography says that in 1931, Einstein and Mayer re-formulated Kaluza five dimensional theory, retaining a four-dimensional space-time. I would like to know if it was a step back or a step forward when they did this?
A: Step back, then forward.

Q: (A) Next question: three weeks ago you mentioned pentagons and hexagons. I have here a pentagon and a mathematical formula under pentagon which for me, relates to a pentagon, and it has x, y, z, three dimension; time, which is one dimension, and perhaps the fifth dimension, which corresponds to the fifth. Is this association of pentagon with this mathematical symbol below correct?
A: Yes. Gravity waves, pentagon is the foundation; hexagon is the conclusion.

Q: (A) I want to go back to this little mathematical formula here. I have here a plus or minus and I don’t know which sign to take in front of this field variable. Should it be plus like x,y and z, or should it be minus, like with t?
A: Minus.

Q: (A) Related to these gravity waves, in 1936 Einstein wrote a paper which was rejected, in which he claims to have discovered that there are no gravity waves. Should gravity be quantized as other fields?
A: It can be.

Q: (A) But, if it is quantized, it will be gravitons, and you said that there are no gravitons...
A: Gravitons are really electrons within a time vacuum.

Q: (A) Physicists today and for the past 5 or 10 years have been trying to build a theory of everything which is built on the idea of strings - that everything is composed of oscillating strings - they call it SuperString Theory. Is the idea of strings any good?
A: No.

Q: (A) Now, in many of these internet papers we find the name of Bearden. I have here a page: Utilizing Scalar Electromagnetics to Tap Vacuum Energy. [Reads abstract] This guy wrote several books and several papers. Is there any truth in what he is saying?
A: Yes.

Q: (A) Is it worthwhile to study?
A: Yes.

Q: (A) Is his idea of scalar electromagnetics sound?
A: Close.

Q: (L) Okay, going back to the pyramid. In the Pyramid Texts (
The Book of The Dead), when they talk about the ’Boat of Millions of Years,’ what are they talking about?
A: Time machine.

Q: (L) Who were the ’Followers of Horus?
A: Those who held the 3rd "insight."

Q: (L) What was the third insight?
A: There are 10. The 3rd involves transcendental existence.

Q: (L) The Pyramid Texts also talk about the ’Duat.’ What is this?
A: Scene of martyrdom.

Q: (L) They also talk about the ’Seven Sages.’ You once said that Perceval was ’knighted in the Court of Seven’ and that the sword’s points signify ’crystal transmitter of truth beholden.’ Do these seven sages relate to this ’Court of Seven’ that you mentioned?
A: Close.

Q: (L) When you said ’swords points signify crystal transmitter of truth beholden,’ could you elaborate on that remark?
A: Has celestial meaning.

Q: (L) Also since the layout of the pyramids and the Sphinx seems to indicate that the constellation of Leo is in some way very significant, does this relate in any way to your remark that your ’next stop: Leo,’ that we should ’call Leo?’
A: Getting warmer.

Q: (L) Okay, since you said that the Sphinx symbolized a religion, or worship of a god named Endurra which just ’fizzled out,’ how can this be reconciled with the obvious celestial relationship to this monument and this whole Giza complex. It seems that there is a far deeper meaning to the Sphinx than just the worship of a feline principle that just ’fizzled out.’ Comment please?
A: It "fizzled" because the kept secrets faded.

Q: (A) Here is a picture of a pyramid, and they ask what this hieroglyph means. [Picture of a man pointing to something] What does it mean?
A: Passage to higher levels.


Q: (L) In the middle of the night the other night as I was going to sleep, I thought of something that you guys once said about the Denver airport, TDARM, that both sides can use airports and that the meaning was ’much, much deeper than that.’ It made me think of what you had said before about planets and stars being windows or doorways. Is it possible that there are points in deep recesses or underground places of our planet where one can enter a portal and emerge through a portal on another planet or system. Are the centers of planets and stars the emergences of wormholes or something?
A: If utilized as such.

Q: (C) So it would have to be intentional. Is anyone utilizing them as such?
A: Maybe...

Q: (A) What is so particular about the center of a planet as opposed to the center of a snowball. Both are balls, one is just a little bit larger than the other. A planet is a big ball, a snowball is a small ball.
A: Have you ever tried to melt a planet in your hand?

Q: (A) No, because a planet is a little bit bigger than my hand. What is so particular about a planet. It is just a piece of matter like a snowball is a piece of matter.
A: Magnetic field gravity profile.

Q: (L) What is the magnetic field gravity profile?
A: Intensity and... here comes that word... density.

Q: (L) Well, off to the side, just what IS at the core of our planet?
A: Fluid crystalline gas core.

Q: (L) And what is this fluid crystalline gas core composed of?
A: Methane and ammonia.

Q: (L) How does methane and ammonia be crystalline?
A: They can be under the correct magnetic conductivity.

Q: (C) Can the condition found at the core be duplicated on the surface of the planet?
A: No.

Q: (C) So you couldn’t achieve the proper magnetic conductivity?
A: Right.

Q: (L) What is so particular about methane and ammonia that it composes the core?
A: Methane binds to the ammonium crystals.

Q: (L) Well, that’s the bizarrest thing I ever heard!
A: No.

Q: (L) Well, it’s right up there in the top ten!

(C) Was that the beginning of the formation of the earth when the methane bound to the ammonium crystals?
A: No.

Q: (L) Well, how did it get there?
A: Methane collected at the core after cooling. Buoyancy is determined by gravitational profile. This is why Jupiter and Saturn, for example, both of which are less dense than the Earth, but have immensely stronger gravitational fields, have atmospheres consisting of ammonia as the dominant gas.

Q: (L) How does this very strange core in the earth relate to gravity waves?
A: Well, the wave is an integral factor of the excitation of the basic substance.

Q: (L) Are you saying that excitation of these substances produce gravity waves?
A: Excitation of the environment produces a wave of the foundational entity of that environment.

Q: (L) What is the foundational entity of the environment of this core?
A: Same as all others. 7th density.

Q: (A) I have a problem with this Saturn and Jupiter. If they are less dense, but have stronger gravitational fields. According to what I know their gravitational field is stronger because they are bigger. So, even though they are less dense, they have more mass and their gravitational field is stronger. And that is all.
A: Yes this is true.

Q: (A) Well, they said that this is true what I said...
A: How does what we said conflict with what you said?

Q: (A) What they say, if they are really gasses then the planet must be bigger, but they say it has a stronger gravity field because of that.
A: No, no, no. We did not say it has a stronger gravity field because of that. Review, please!

Q: (C) Okay, buoyancy. I guess that if we were to walk on Jupiter or Saturn we would be more or less buoyant than on the Earth?

(L) Now wait a minute. We were asking about this core, and we were curious as to how this methane could be at the core because we perceive methane as being ’fluffy,’ or buoyant...

(C) But it is bound to the ammonium crystals...

(L) And they said that buoyancy was determined by gravitational profile. Jupiter and Saturn have atmospheres consisting of ammonia as the dominant gas because buoyancy is determined by gravitational profile.

(C) What does buoyancy have to do with the binding of methane and ammonia or with the gravitational profile.

(L) That is HUGELY confusing! What is the gravitational profile of Jupiter or Saturn, for example, as contrasted to the gravitational profile of the Earth?
A: They are much stronger gravitationally.

Q: (L) Is this gravitational profile of Jupiter and Saturn related in a direct way to the ammonia?
A: Indirectly.

Q: (C) Why didn’t their ammonia bind with the methane and sink to the core?
A: Because density affects buoyancy.

Q: (L) The buoyancy of what?
A: The gases.

Q: (L) Why are they less dense?
A: Because of their size juxtaposed with their environment relative to their distance from Sol.

Q: (L) Why did the impact of the comet Shoemacher-Levy, in this ammonia environment produce superluminal effects that were measured on these instruments by these Russian scientists?
A: Ponder based upon what we have given you. Now refer to your knowledge base regarding microdynamic atomic physics.

Q: (A) I want to ask about this macrodynamics. In microdynamics we have Planck’s constant and it is very small, and this is why we have quantum jumps and quantum events in microdynamics. But there is this concept of macrodynamics, perhaps we have probability waves and quantum jumps on a macro scale. This is something which we don’t know...
A: Yet.

Q: (A) So there is something like Planck’s Constant but much bigger that converts on a macro scale?
A: Something like that. And if this is food for thought, you have been presented with a veritable feast tonight.


Q: (A) At some point we were asking about this magnetic grid of the earth, and we were told that the grid lines are located about every 200 miles, and that it is a regular pattern of lines...
A: Yes, but those are primary. What happens at the poles?

Q: (A) At the poles, these lines converge, and the pattern becomes more complex, I suspect.
A: Convergence.

Q: (A) Okay, they converge at the poles, and probably go inside.
A: In atmosphere, there is undulation. At core, there is primary convergence, and that is also your doorway/bridge.

Q: (A) Core of the Earth?
A: Yes.

Q: (A) These lines that are being drawn, are they just one dimensional lines, or are they a plane that crosses the Earth along these lines?
A: Latter.

Q: (A) Well, I wanted to make sure because, when we were directed to this place and the term ’magnetic meridian’ was brought up, and we asked the question as to where the zero magnetic meridian was located, we were told that it was at about 90 degrees East longitude which is in the Indian Ocean. Is this correct?
A: All those lovely, shimmering oceans intersect around a lovely island with really inexpensive real estate!

Q: (A) I have no idea what that means! [Laura stops and gets the Atlas and examines the area in question.]

(L) Okay, the only island I can see that those lovely shimmering oceans intersect around, in the terms in which you have expressed it, is Antarctica.
A: Yes.

Q: (A) Okay, this brings us to the question about the Piri Reis map. We wanted to know the origin of this map?
A: Complex, but the origin would date back to 14,000 B.C.

Q: (A) Atlantis?
A: Close.

Q: (L) Was this map drawn when Antarctica was NOT covered by ice?
A: Yes.

Q: (L) Why was it not covered by ice?

(A) Because the climate was warmer.
A: Technologically achieved.

Q: (L) Why would somebody want to technologically warm Antarctica if the whole rest of the planet was available for use? What is so special about Antarctica?
A: The whole rest of the planet was available for use? Not hardly.

Q: (L) Why was the rest of the planet not available for use?
A: Ice.

Q: (A) Much of the planet was covered by ice, but not all.
A: Yes.

Q: (L) So, instead of using the areas that were NOT covered by ice, why, in particular, was Antarctica...
Q: (L) What I am getting at is: why go to all the trouble to thaw out a whole big island if it might have been easier to have been somewhere else?
A: Is it not obvious by now? Magnetic power grid physics. EM utilization. Crystals, and the like. Seeking paths to the interior? The "Poles" know best! EM generators usually employ a grid. ’Tis for field creation

Q: (A) When you say this, you mean A grid, not THE grid?
A: Yes. Looks like a waffle iron.

Q: (A) You mean like a waffle iron that is used in transformers?
A: Okay. Why? To duplicate nature. Earth has a web, and so doeth thee!

Q: (A) Now, Earth’s grid is just an imaginary grid related to field, or just a mathematic grid... no, it must really exist....
A: Yes.

Q: (A) If it really exists, is it a field of grid, or is it a grid made out of some matter, like these waffle irons? Just field, or matter?
A: Both. The iron is attracted, not attractive.

Q: (A) Okay, I want to ask about the Whittaker papers of 1903, about solutions of wave equations, and this relates to this Bearden who is talking about anti-gravity and zero point energy devices. At some point, you told us that there was something in this. Bearden speculates that this Whittaker’s ideas were useful. I obtained copies and I am studying them, and they are quite interesting.. Is this something that is worthwhile or another red herring?
A: No. They are worth it.

Q: (A) Recently, by a strange chance, I was pointed to a guy in Brazil who wrote some papers about superluminal waves. He writes a lot of papers about it... and he even says that he believes that superluminal waves can be used technologically pretty soon. Any comment this particular guy, is he on the right track?
A: Yes.

Q: (A) What about quaternions? Lord Hamilton invented quaternions, and this Bearden tells us that Maxwell wrote his equation using these quaternions, and his original papers are hidden from us by the government; that Maxwell knew more than we are told. Is this really the case?
A: Yes.

Q: (A) Are these quaternions useful?
A: Partly, but there is a missing link.

Q: (A) Sure. Now, I was thinking today about this Whittaker discovery, and whether I should work on linking it to the pentagons and hexagons. Is it the missing link? Or, did you mean another missing link?
A: Well, linking the geometric factors you speak of is wise, but there are other links missing as well.


Q: My first question is regarding this diagram of the pyramid here and this second diagram of the pyramid as we know it and this book about the pyramid where it says:

’In 1974 the Danish professor, Hubert Paulsen, a retired architect, announced following extensive research within the pyramid, his theory that an undiscoverd chamber existed, probably beneath its foundations. He based his theory on the geometric principle upon which the pyramid was built. This chamber may have been the pharoah’s tomb and may contain treasures even more remarkable than those found in Tutanhamen’s tomb.’

Anyway, this was a 1974 study of the pyramid. This is the only 1974 study I have come across since you suggested that we look for something done in 1974 regarding the pyramid, though you mentioned an ’engineer,’ so I was first thinking that it must be Robert Beauval’s work, since he is an engineer. I suppose that an architect could be a sort of engineer. Is this the study that you had in mind?
A: Paulsen could use further perusal.

Q: Of these two diagrams of the interior of the pyramid, this one was taken from a booklet published in 1861 which describes a great cavity in the center of the pyramid. When people were visiting the pyramid at that point in time, was this, in fact, the configuration of the interior of the pyramid?
A: Close.

Q: Is it still configured that way but that portion of it is blocked off or concealed from visitors at the present?
A: Close.

Q: Do the present excavators and archaeologists and workers over there know about these other chambers in the pyramid?
A: Some.

Q: Is there a large chamber under the pyramid concealing some sort of artifacts?
A: Yes.

Q: Is this a treasure or is this information?
A: Either/or.

Q: Are the people who are working in or around the pyramid at the present time aware of this deeply hidden underground chamber in the pyramid?
A: Only a few.

Q: There is one woman whose writings are posted on the internet and she claims that the pyramid is a ’great clock’ and that it would ’reset the time’ of the planet.
A: No.

Q: Well, she claims that she has been given information that there once existed some kind of a great gear or wheel that was set in the Grand Gallery and that it would roll or something in the notches found there. If that is not the case, what were these notches for?
A: Levelling principle.

Q: Levelling of what? They were used to set a level of something? When something was put in the notches, it set the level of something?
A: Close.

Q: Was what was placed in these notches, these holes some type of a bar-type object that crossed the gallery from side to side?
A: You do not have the base data yet. Be patient. It will come to you.

Q: What is the base data?
A: Clues will lead you there, not proclamations.

Q: I would just like to have some sort of visual image of what was placed in this gallery...
A: We know you would.

Q: Everybody in the world is posting crazy, bizarre theories on the internet, and writing these elaborate web pages about their visions and their information from other ’sources,’ and that the pyramid is a giant bell, or a clock that resets time, and so on and on....
A: Hoagland.

Q: Fine with Hoagland! He was on the radio the other night saying that Leedskallen moved his Coral Castle because he wanted to align it with Hoagland’s proposed theory about the Miami circle. That is clearly foolishness since Hilliard told us the whole inside story about the moving of the Coral Castle as it was told to him directly by Leedskallen, and that it was because of some county regulatory reasons. Yet Hoagland is out there trying to squeeze even THAT into his ideas! I think he is just capitalizing on the publicity! I mean, Hoagland and a whole slew of them are out there asking for "scientific attention." We sent two faxes from the University offering to become involved, even at risk of losing face in the mainstream scientific community; the offer was free - no strings attached - and we did not even receive the courtesy of a "thanks very much, but we already have someone!"
A: Whatever else you find true about Hoagland, just remember that genius resides adjacent to insanity!

Q: (A) What is the meaning of this remark about Hoagland?
A: Some of his stuff may be "poppycock," but some is right on the money, honey!

Q: (L) Well, what did Hoagland ever say about the pyramid?

(A) He said that the way the Coral Castle was built was the same way the pyramid was built.

(L) Well, we know that because Leedskallen said that himself! That’s not news. Hoagland talks about this 19.5 degree latitude line and this double tetrahedron, but I don’t know how that relates to something that is located at about 29 degrees of latitude such as the pyramid. That’s about 10 degrees off. Has Hoagland ever opined about the pyramid itself?
A: Look it up!

Q: Okay. We will. But there’s only so many hours in the day! We don’t have time to waste pussyfooting around.


Q: (A) Now, next question relates to the story of creation which L wrote for the website, and I was reading it and trying to make sense, to make it not contradictory, and I found that it is not easy because many of the concepts that are used during these sessions are somehow contradictory to each other or they don’t quite fit with the standard meanings of these concepts, so I wanted to ask for some explanation. First, we were told that gravity is essentially the most universal force and that it is from this that everything originates...
A: Gravity is the binder.

Q: (A) But, my question is: gravity is a term that is defined in dictionaries and encyclopedias and is a term which has a very precise meaning for physicists and mathematicians. I want to know if you are talking about the same thing or if you are using the term ’gravity’ to describe something completely different that we know as gravity. Are we talking about the same thing?
A: Well, are you certain these "definitions" you speak of are not limited?

Q: (A) Yes, I am sure they are limited. Nevertheless, they are precisely defined concepts and you are using the same term ’gravity,’ so I am asking if we are talking about the same thing, or if you are talking about something completely different?
A: How about a great expansion upon the same concept?

Q: (A) Okay. That answered my question. So, we are using the same thing, but for you it is more adequate or so. Now, I want to ask about mathematical modelling of gravity. The gravity that we know about is modelled by geometry of a curved space. Is the gravity that you are talking about, which is an expansion of this concept, capable of being modelled in a similar way: by geometry?
A: Geometry is the correct model.

Q: (A) Now, the question is: if gravity can be modelled in this way - geometry is the correct model - what do we need more to model also consciousness? Will it be automatically implied in such a model of gravity, or is it something extra?
A: Consciousness is contained within the expanded realization of the gravity model. The model, if completed, would give one an insight into the synchronous relationship between gravity and consciousness.

Q: (A) If gravity is modelled by curvature or torsion of geometry, mathematically, how would consciousness come out of geometry?
A: That is a broken question. What we can say is this: if one could visualize the inverted representation of the gravity geometric model, one would be squarely on the path to understanding the geometric model of consciousness.

Q: (A) Now, there are claims, more or less, shared by many scientists that quantum theory is necessary to model or understand consciousness. From what was said before, it seems that quantum theory is not necessary, that it is sufficient to have the right geometric model of extended gravity.
A: No, not extended, expanded.

Q: (A) Does that mean that quantum theory is irrelevant for understanding the modelling of consciousness?
A: Quantum first needs to be graduated from the realm of theory. Proving is a concept we should now be moving beyond. The currently imposed protocol for "proving" theories is a bit passe, we think. Can you imagine trying to fly a plane if you must first prove that there is a sky?

Q: (C) So, don’t try to prove quantum theory, just go ahead and use it, I guess.
A: Pretty close.

Q: (A) Are you laughing at quantum theory?
A: No. We are laughing at 3rd density scientific protocol!

Q: (A) Okay, we are coming to densities. But, before that, one more question: what is matter? How is matter built out of gravity? What forms of gravity correspond to matter in terms of the geometric model?
A: First of all, you live in a "matter" universe, from your perspective. There is an accompanying energy universe which you largely are unable to perceive as of yet.

Q: (A) But, my question was ...
A: Who/what is Mandlebrot??

Q: (A) Okay, you are talking about fractals now, certainly...
A: Are we?

Q: (A) Mandlebrot is the name of a French mathematician who is famous because he discovered fractals and some laws that govern fractals and chaos. But, as to ’what’ - some fractal images are also called ’mandlebrot.’
A: And where does this lead, Ark?

Q: (A) That brings us to fractal properties of space time and such things.
A: What if matter were the "half-life" of energy?

Q: (C) What if energy decays into matter? Is that what they are saying?
A: Be careful of the quotemarks, they bring you to the crossroads. As in: "you take the high road, I’ll take the low road, and I’ll be in Scotland before ye."

Q: (L) I guess that means that we are not to use the usual interpretation of ’half-life,’ but that there is a pun, a clue intended here that is to be deciphered.
A: Look folks, we cannot just spill the secrets of all existence all over this board, but we sure can open the doorways, yeah.

Q: (L) That brings me to a little question that I want to insert here. You have said that Service to Others means ’giving all to those who ask.’ We are asking, so why aren’t you giving all?
A: Not quite. Cannot abridge free will!

Q: (L) Well, my free will says that I want all the secrets of existence! I mean, other people are channeling sources that just dump endless answers to anything and everything...
A: Other people are channeling ________..

Q: (C) It’s a new breakfast cereal!

(A) Now, the two main concepts that we are using are dimensions and densities. Again, you use the concept of dimension in not quite the way physicists and mathematicians use it.
A: Phi.

Q: (A) Well, I have no idea what this phi is doing here which is probably related to Fibonacci and the Golden Ratio...
A: Carbonari.

Q: (A) Yet, still there is my question about dimensions. Phi is not an integer number and we will look into it. But, what I said was that the way you are using the term ’dimensions’ is not what physicists are familiar with in using this term.
A: The trouble here is with semantics: the general public uses that word to mean different things from the physicists!

Q: (C) Okay, phi is a Greek letter but I don’t see how that is connected.
A: No, not phi, dimensions!

Q: (A) I have tried to guess what you mean by dimensions from all the things that you have said about it...
A: Our "meaning" is closer to that of the general public definition.

Q: (A) Very good, yet you have said certain things in a context that was more related to the structure of the universe. And we were talking about dimensions also in the context of Kaluza-Klein theories. At one point, you said there are infinitely many dimensions, and at another point it was implied that different dimensions meant different universes, which would mean that there are infinitely many universes. I would like to represent these dimensions in some mathematical model. My idea was that these dimensions were like slices; and each slice is a universe and, indeed, there are infinitely many possible slices. So, that was my idea of dimensions: slices. Is it correct?
A: That is good.

Q: (A) There are infinitely many dimensions because there are infinitely many slices. Now we come to densities. There are not infinitely many densities, there are only seven. Or, are these seven just for the general public and there are really infinitely many of them as well?
A: No.

Q: (A) Good. So, there are seven densities. Now, how come, there are seven, and not three or five, or eleven? Does it follow from some mathematics?
A: What form of mathematical theory best describes the concept of balance?

Q: (L) Algebra.

(A) So, I had the idea that these seven densities were related to what Gurdjieff relates to the number of laws that apply in the various densities; the higher the density, the fewer the laws that apply, which means there is more freedom?
A: That is very close. Consciousness is the key here.

Q: (A) Yes, so my question relates to the geometric model of gravity and consciousness.
A: Picture an endless octagonal... in three dimensions.

Q: (A) A lattice, you mean?
A: Okay.

Q: (A) Are these densities related to the mathematical concept of ’signatures of the metric?’ I would like to model densities with slices of different geometric properties, in particular slices with different properties of the distance.
A: Yes...

Q: (A) There are several people who essentially think the same direction as we have been discussing... they are almost on the same track. Matti Pitkanen is one of them and Tony Smith is the other. How can these two guys have these similar ideas without having access to channeling?
A: Who said they they have no access to channeling? Some channel without knowing it.

Q: (A) Today, on this list there was a guy by the name of Boyd who talks about his shamanistic experiences in talking to rocks. He doesn’t sound whacko, but he talks to these stones on a daily basis and these stones talk to him, and these rocks have consciousness, they have memories. I wrote to him, but I would like to know if his experiences are authentic and not just his imagination?
A: That is a very broad question, which assumes limits or barriers where none may exist.

Q: (L) Is anyone able to tune into the consciousness of rocks?
A: What if they are really tuning to a consciousness through the rocks?

Q: (A) To A consciousness? Whose consciousness or what consciousness? Universal consciousness?
A: Another.

Q: (A) Another consciousness.

(L) Do rocks have consciousness?
A: Refer to material re: 1st density.

Q: (L) Yes, well it has been previously said that 1st density does have consciousness... that even rocks have consciousness and can learn. That brings us back to Boyd, is he, can he, does he tune into the consciousness of rocks and/or other consciousnesses THROUGH rocks?
A: The latter is closer.

Q: (L) So, the consciousness of a rock might not be amenable to communicating.
A: Right.

Q: (L) What other consciousness might a person tune into through a rock? ANY other or a specific other?
A: Closer to former.

Q: (A) If there is consciousness, it means that there is a consciousness unit, and this conscious unit can be within or associated with some body of some density. Can one tune to consciousness that resides, so to say, in higher densities than third, using rocks? Is it possible?
A: Close.

Q: (A) So, you can tune to dead dudes or Cassiopaeans.

(L) Is the consciousness of human beings something that has cycled from minerals to plants through animals to evolve into consciousness of 3rd density mind, as we understand it?
A: In a roundabout way.

Q: (L) Was each of us, sitting here, at any point in the remote past, using time loosely, a critter, so to speak, or a plant or a tree?
A: You still be a critter, baby!

Q: (L) So, leaving out time, the stream of consciousness that makes us as individual units, branches out and extends into lower densities, or connects to them like a tree?
A: Maybe.

Q: (A) Concerning these rocks, I want to ask about this DNA phantom effect that some Russians recently discovered. They shoot with lasers into this vaccum and record photons with detectors. It detects noise because there is nothing coherent. Then, they put a little piece of DNA there. This DNA has a certain regular structure. So, the photons from the lasers scatter from this DNA molecule in a certain wavy pattern which corresponds to the internal structure of the DNA. Now, they remove the DNA and for a month or two they continue to obtain a coherent pattern from the vacuum as though something was still there. They call it the ’phantom DNA.’
A: The "phantom" is a remnant of the consciousness residue contained within the DNA structure.

Q: (A) Where does this remnant reside? In the vacuum, in the vibrations of the vacuum, in a gravitational field that is inside the vacuum, in some nonlinear electromagnetics? Where is this remnant? What keeps it? Space itself?
A: You hit it pretty close with the last three.

Q: (C) Wouldn’t it be like leaving an impression in a cushion?

(A) Yes, but this is a vacuum.

(L) I guess that a vacuum isn’t what we think it is. There is something there that is not amenable to our perception.

(A) So, consciousness resides in a DNA structure.

(C) Well, going back to the rocks, is not all consciousness connected?

(A) Yes, but the funny thing about these rocks is that they have the ability of tuning one consciousness to another consciousness so that even if, in principle, all consciousness is one consciousness, yet there are separate consciousness units, which at some level they connect, yet at our level they seem to be separate, so there is something about rocks.

(C) Maybe its the fact that they are so simple.

(A) Yes. But, it seems that a rock would do it, but dirt would not, so what is so special about rocks?

(L) Okay, this anthropologist, Michael Harner, was doing some field work, and it says here that Harner went to the Peruvian Amazon to study the culture of the Conibo Indians. After a year or so he had made little headway in understanding their religious system, when the Conibo told him ’if he really wanted to learn, he had to drink ahayahuasca. Harner accepted, not without fear because the people had warned him that the experience was terrifying. The following evening, under the strict supervision of his indigenous friends, he drank the equivalent of a third of a bottle. After several minutes he found himself flying into a world of true hallucinations. After arriving in a celestial cavern where a supernatural carnival of demons was in full swing, he saw two strange boats floating through the air that combined to form a huge dragon headed prow not unlike that of a Viking ship. On the deck he could make out large numbers of people with the heads of bluejays and the bodies of humans, not unlike the bird-headed gods of ancient Egyptian tomb paintings. After multiple episodes, which would be too long to describe here, Harner became convinced that he was dying. He tried calling out to his Conibo friends for an antidote without managing to pronounce a word. Then he saw that his visions emanated from giant reptilian creatures that resided at the lowest depths of his brain. These creatures began projecting scenes in front of his eyes while informing him that this information was reserved for the dying and the dead.

’First, they showed me the planet Earth as it was aeons ago before there was any life on it. I saw an ocean, barren land, and a bright blue sky. Then black specks dropped from the sky by the hundreds and landed in front of me on the barren landscape. I could see that the specks were actually large, shiny black creatures with stubby pterodactyl-like wings and huge whale-like bodies. They explained to me in a kind of thought language, that they were fleeing from something from out in space. They had come to the planet earth to escape their enemy. The creatures then showed me how they had created life on the planet in order to hide within the multitudinous forms, and thus disguise their presence. Before me, the magnificence of plant and animal creation and speciation and hundreds of millions of years of activity, took place on a scale and with a vividness impossible to describe. I learned that dragon-like creatures were thus inside all forms of life, including man.’

At this point in his account, Harner writes in a footnote at the bottom of the page:

’in retrospect, one could say that they were almost like DNA, although at that time, in 1961, I knew nothing of DNA.’

So, I would like to know what was the source and nature of these nearly universal visions that occurs in these shamanistic practices; the various creatures including serpents and bird-headed dudes, and so forth? What is the source of these hallucinations?
A: Be more specific.

Q: (C) In these chemically induced trances, why is there the common experience of seeing these bird-headed or serpent-like creatures?
A: While you have physicality, some part of you will maintain the connection to its roots.

Q: (L) Are you saying that all these people who say that human beings have reptilian genetics, are telling the truth? Do we have reptilian genetics?
A: Yes.

Q: (L) Do we also have bird genetics?
A: Yes.

Q: (L) And that is our physical connection or basis?
A: Yes, as third density bioengineered beings, you lead the smorgasbord parade of that which surrounds you in the physical realm.