Start of interview
BILL RYAN (B): I want to thank
you for coming forward with what was immediately clear to me, once I'd
read your written debrief, that you have some highly significant
information that needs to be shared.
And it's our job at Project Camelot
to assist you in reaching people who are aware enough to understand what
you're saying, why it's important, and to put it in perspective with
other information that they may have.
And to introduce all of this, I wonder if you could say what it is that
you're prepared to say on record about your background, about your
history... just in general what you think is okay to share about how it
is that you've actually been positioned to get a hold of the information
that you're going to be reporting.
WITNESS (W): Okay. Well, the information I've shared with
you already, I feel, it's not Earth-shattering. I feel it's something
that a lot of people will already have grasped with the amount of
information that is getting put out on the internet already.
If there's any uniqueness within the information that I'm providing to
you, that I feel should be shared, is that it's first-hand information
and it's given to you freely for those who wish to use it and to inform
themselves. I think that that's my initial position on this.
For my part, I've spent a long time in the military and then held a
senior position in the
City of London, and within both institutions I
became very intimate with events that were being manufactured secretly,
covertly, on behalf of a group of people - I can't say it's on behalf
of a nation or a community because it's certainly none of that - but
it's certainly something is to do with a group of people whose interests
lie within themselves and what they're doing to coerce a series of
events to happen.
Looking back with hindsight now, I can see quite clearly they're being
most successful in doing what they're doing. And I feel, because of what
I know, that time is running out for these people.
So the timeline that I'm going to describe is somehow... and that's an
apt title, really, because a timeline starts somewhere and it ends
somewhere and these people are very well aware of it.
We're coming up to a critical time now, which everybody's discussing at
the moment. I'm very well aware of that. But the information I've
brought may put some flesh on the bones for other people to consider
And as for the veracity of it, I can only tell you that what I'm going
to tell you is truthful, albeit lots of people may think it's a
perception. I'm quite happy with that, too.
But it's been my experience,
and it's that experience that I'm going to share.
B: Yes. What would be great is if you can differentiate between
information which came at you first-hand when you were physically in
meetings with some of these people, and other information that you've
got that was through more subjective means, which you may feel very
confident in. It's important to separate out the provenance of the
But for you, of course, and for many other people who will
be reading this, it actually forms a coherent picture. Right?
W: Yes. I think that's important. I think anything like this has to be
coherent. And of course there is a subjective element to it; I mean, I
can't deny that. But, you know, all of it could be looked at as being
subjective, but it's also from a witness point of view.
I'm going to describe it, people will be able to see through any
subjective feelings I've got about it and get to the core of what's
B: Right. Now, if you could just add a little bit of detail about the
group that you referred to. Does this group have any kind of name that
they're calling themselves? Is this a group that other people reading
this would recognize when cross-referencing information?
W: I've had difficulty myself in trying to describe these people. I've
called them like a "Band of Brothers." I've also called them an
There's also other names I could call them, some of
them derogatory, and that would be deserved. [laughs]
But I think the
best way, the most sensible way to describe these people so that people
can understand what they're like, is they're like an over-government,
because that's what they're doing.
B: Are you talking about British people here, or international people?
W: The meeting that I will refer to later, it was all British, and some
of them are very well known characters who people in the United Kingdom
will recognize immediately. Those who are international who might read
this might have to do bit of research on them.
But they are national
figures, some of them.
B: Are they political figures? Or are they figures in the "noble
classes", so to speak?
W: Yes, there is a bit of aristocracy there, and some of them come from
quite aristocratic backgrounds. There's one who I identified at that
meeting who is a senior politician. Two others were senior figures from
the police, and one from the military.
Both are known nationally and
both are key figures in advising the present government - at this
B: And inasmuch as there's a political component to this, does this
political component go across both parties?
W: No, this senior political component belongs to the right-wing party
in Britain, the Conservative Party.
B: Okay. For the benefit of American readers, that would be the
equivalent of the Republicans.
B: All right. So, it's an insider group that functions in Britain as
many American readers of this transcript would recognize by analogy - it's
like the American secret government. You're talking about
politicians behind the scenes who are still very influential, links with
the police, links with the military.
Are there also American military
links in there?
W: One significant military figure, now retired, but active in advising
B: Okay. Are you aware of or did you hear any discussion of any
participation by church authorities or the Vatican or any of the
religions of the world? Was this mentioned as part of their strategic
planning for all of this?
W: No. Not at all, but I know the Church of England, especially, is
complicit in everything that's going on, totally complicit.
B: Okay. And you know this because of the close relationship between
senior figures in the Church of England and the group that you met with
in the City of London?
W: Absolutely. You don't need a forensic expert to find that one out.
That's quite open.
B: Okay. Is this all fundamentally Masonic?
W: Absolutely. There's no question about that. Everybody is vetted
through that process, through the Masonic process, and then they get to
meet one another.
That's something that people need to understand. There are levels in
Masonry. You know, most Masons don't really know anything at all, and
they're out there doing good work for the most part and they get the
benefit of a kind of "club," as it were. But that goes through various
Some people call it by "degrees" or whatever. But it's a Who's
Who. That is - who can be trusted, who can be brought together, who's
holding power, who's likely to develop more power.
And these people attract one another and they get together because they
all have a single cause. But it's not exactly like a Masonic cause, you
It's something that can be likened to it, but not the same as it.
B: Could you explain that a little more clearly?
W: Well, I think the best way to explain this is: Masonry, is to my
knowledge, is just a vehicle for these people. It allows them to come
together quietly, in secret, behind closed doors, get to know one
another, feel safe and secure knowing confidently that what's said in
these meetings go no further than those meetings.
So it's got that
Masonic element to it, but this goes to an entirely different level
Now, the meeting that I'm talking about, I don't even consider these
people to be a significant level - significant enough for me at the
time - but they were discussing things that were already agreed upon
and planned and dictated.
They were really getting together to share
information, to find out how well it was going and what was needed to
keep it on track.
B: So things had already been decided at an even higher level than this.
Is that what you're saying?
W: That was very clear. From what I heard, they weren't a
decision-making group. They were like an action group. They were people
who needed to come together now and then to discuss together what needs
to be done, or what is getting done, and what should be getting done.
And then they disperse and go back and do what they need to do, as a
result of these meetings.
B: Okay. And you attended one meeting?
W: Only one.
B: And in what capacity did you attend this meeting?
W: By sheer accident! I thought it was a normal three-monthly meeting
because I looked at the e-mail list, which had familiar names on it, and
I was on it. But by that time, because of the senior position I held
within the City, I just thought it was quite normal for me to be
earmarked for this kind of meeting.
So when I went to the meeting, it wasn't the same venue as before. It
was a livery company venue, which is quite unusual, but not too unusual
to wonder why. I went to this meeting and it was not the meeting that I
I believe I was invited... it was because of the position
I held and because they believed that, like themselves, I was one of
B: So you were included because they already knew you. You were regarded
as a safe pair of hands.
W: Absolutely. Yes. I was a safe pair of hands. I was a do-er. I was one
of the people who, at my level within the organization, got things done.
W: And I was regarded as that. Lots had known me for some time, even the
most senior figures within them. I mean, it was first-name terms, that
sort of thing. And I'd also been regularly invited to various functions,
social functions, and things like that where I became familiar with some
of them and some of them became very familiar with me.
So it was easy-going, quite professional, nothing out of the ordinary,
although bells started to ring about what they were up to and what they
were doing and the kind of decisions that they were making, which by and
large, I ignored.
It seems unusual, but there was a part of me that
wanted to ignore what was going on.
B: Are you saying that in this particular meeting we're talking about,
the people who attended the meeting were familiar to you, largely, and
you'd attended other meetings with them before; but this was a meeting
with a difference because it was in a different location and with a
different agenda, although the delegates to the meeting were basically
the same group?
Is that what you're saying?
W: No, not exactly. I knew most of the attendees at the meeting, but not
all. There were about 25 or 30 people were at the meeting. And it was
looked rather informal, you know, people getting to know one another,
re-acquainting themselves as people do. There was nothing unusual about
It was when the subjects started to come up that my astonishment
started to rise at what was being said.
B: Was it like a formal chaired meeting around a table, with notes and
water glasses, and all of that kind of stuff?
W: None of the sort. There were no notes taken - nothing. It was really
a behind-closed-doors meeting with people talking over one another, some
people holding the audience, spelling out what their concerns were,
catapulting onto other things that they thought were of concern to them.
And then describing, which I can only say is the "timeline of events"
that they had anticipated to be happening, to be on course, and lots of
concerns because it wasn't. And what was meant to happen on the timeline
that hadn't happened, and what actions were going to be taken for it to
And this is where things started to get quite surreal - because I'd
never been in the company of people like this, talking like that.
Now, the group of people who I was most familiar with, the people who do
the work within the City, they belong to various well known financial
committees; some of them quite diverse committees, but they all belong
to the same organization. These are people who go unseen; most people
don't know who they are. I know them. I know them by sight, know them by
name. I know them by what they do.
It was the other people who were there at the time that surprised me.
Three others in particular. There were more people there who were at
their type of level as well who I couldn't really identify, but three of
B: Okay, now when was this meeting? Let's put a date on it.
W: Okay. We're talking 2005. It was after the May general election
- that's when Blair was voted back in again. That meeting definitely took
place some time in June of that year.
B: It is okay to put on record that it was in June?
W: June 2005 is fine. Yes.
B: All right. Now I wonder then if you could spell out what it was that
was discussed at that meeting.
W: Well, as I mentioned, I was quite surprised to see the amount of
people who were there. The meeting ranged from several discussions
covering several items or things that were happening at the world in the
time, so there was quite a big discussion about security within the
And one of those three key persons there has now assumed the
role over this... is actually doing it now. He's there now. He's in that
position right now.
The big thing at the time was Iraq. That was on their agenda, but also,
surprisingly, there was lots of conversation and talk about Iran. And
what surprised me and really raised my eyebrows, was mention, open
mention - this was people talking comfortably to one another, not
arguing or shouting - but talking comfortably about the Israeli
reluctance to strike and provoke Iran into armed action.
something that really raised the hairs on the back of my neck.
And it seemed as if the Israeli government was tied onto what was going
on here and had a role to play which was being dictated outside Israeli
borders. A year later, Israel attacked Iranian-backed Hezbollah bases in
And then the second thing that came out that I recall quite clearly was
mention of Japanese reluctance to create havoc within the Chinese
I really couldn't understand why they were talking about that and why
that had any importance. What I picked up from this seemed to be the
Japanese government, or those in Japan, being coerced or ordered into
doing something that would wreck or slow down the Chinese rise to
It was mentioned that China was growing too quickly and the main
beneficiary of that growth was the Chinese military, which was getting
modernized, mostly through the money that they were getting from the
And then things... and this is where I can't help but be subjective,
Bill. Because at the time I recall I started to feel quite sick about
what was being spoken about, and very anxious about what was being said.
I was on the periphery of this meeting and I could feel the anxiety just
rise up inside me because this was stuff that was getting spoken about
off the cuff. It wasn't getting announced to anybody. This was things
that they already knew about.
So then there was open talk about the use of biological weapons, where
and when they would be used, and the timing. And timing always appears
to be crucial.
And then there was more talk centered on how Iran must be engaged
militarily in order to provoke the desired military response from China.
There was a clear expectation of goading Iran into some sort of armed
conflict with the West, with China coming to the aid of Iran. Through
this goading, either China or Iran would use a tactical nuclear weapon
of some sort.
And, as I mentioned, these people weren't making decisions. They were
discussing something that had already been planned, so they were simply
sharing their information between themselves. And it became clear as
these discussions went on that the central issue of this meeting was
when the balloon would go up - when all this would happen.
Other talk centered on dealing with finances, resources, protection of
assets, and a control of these resources and bringing in outlying
And I can go through this chain of events with you now, Bill, if
B: I'd be really happy to go into as much detail as you feel you can.
W: Okay. Now, as I previously mentioned, they needed either the Chinese
or the Iranians to be guilty of the first use of nuclear weapons in
order to justify the next stage.
Now, I've already added, and this is anecdotal, so it can't be
confirmed. But my information coming through in this meeting, and from
elsewhere, positively indicates that the Iranians do indeed have a
tactical nuclear capability right now.
They're not developing it.
They've got it.
B: Some say they might have got it from the Russians, maybe. Do you have
any idea about that?
W: I believe it's from the Chinese.
B: From the Chinese... okay.
W: It's because the Chinese technology has been, for many years, used in
their missile systems. They're getting missile technology also from the
Russians as well, but this is mostly ground-to-air missile systems, that
sort of thing - defensive weapons.
Tactical missile weaponry - that
technology is coming via China.
B: Do you have some expertise in this subject from your own military
W: Yes, I do.
B: Okay, so this means that in this meeting where you were hearing this
information, you were able to hear this wearing your military hat, with
your military experience, and understand strategically and tactically
what it was they were talking about and why.
W: Oh, absolutely. I could have even stepped in and corrected their
terminology because I believe they were getting it wrong, but they were
just describing it the best way they could.
W: So yes, I do have quite a deep knowledge of those types of weapons,
and weapons systems in general.
B: Weapons systems in general; sure. Okay, back to where we were, that
was a little footnote that you put in there, saying that you felt,
anecdotally, but you're also confident in that opinion, that Iran did
actually have a current nuclear capability.
W: Yes, if I can put this in here, Bill, before this escapes me... it's
anecdotal in the sense that the discussion didn't mention that Iran
didn't have them.
The discussion leant toward the Iranians having that
type of weapon and not having them. I think the distinction would have
been made there - if they didn't have them.
It wasn't mentioned that
they DIDN'T have them. It leant towards them having such weapons
B: I understand. Now, I don't want to get you off track, but there's the
potential analogy with the Iraqi situation, where Western governments
and military, whether they really knew the truth or not, were certainly
telling the public that the Iraqi military capability was far greater
than it really was.
Is it possible that there was some delusion here
with respect to Iran's capability? Or do you think they really did know
what the Iranians have and could do?
W: Making a comparison with Iraq is a natural thing to do. However, in
this context, I think it could mislead.
The backing that Iraq got during the Iran-Iraq War was mostly Western.
And of course "Western" we must include Israel, so the likelihood of
Iraq getting a nuclear weapon that they haven't produced themselves, but
getting it imported to them, would be extremely low.
Now, the other side of the coin is Iran. Now, Iran is being continuously
backed by China and then later by the Russians; and also by other
The military market is quite an open one and in that we
can even include the French, who quite independently export their
weapons out wherever they can.
W: Even in defiance of conventions in place about the sale of weapons
abroad. But this goes a bit beyond that. We're talking about a country
that's being used quite well by another country throughout the
revolutionary period - where they have been seen as an enemy of all the
Western states, and also the Gulf states as well.
B: You mean, you're referring to Iran being used by China?
W: China. Yes. They're both using each other, of course. China's economy
is skyrocketing. I don't know if it's reached its plateau now or not,
and I'm not talking about that.
But the amount of weaponry and the level
of technical expertise that Iran is receiving from the Chinese military
- it seems inconceivable that nuclear weapons haven't been included
within any package that goes there; whether that comes under the direct
control of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards or jointly by the Iranians
and the Chinese. One can't be sure.
But I go back to what I said before, that at that meeting, the
assumption was - and it was quite clear - that the Iranians HAD such
weapons in their possession because it wasn't mentioned to the contrary.
B: Understood. And what you're going to go on to talk about is how this
cooperation between Iran and China was going to be used as a way to get
at China - because China's the main target. Is this correct?
W: That's correct. China has been the main target since at least the mid
70s - and again, this information it's through third parties so I can't
give you any direct first-hand evidence of this - but it's always been
It was always China that is to be the big one in this timeline.
B: Mm hm.
W: It's China that they're after right now, and it's all about how to
coerce and create the scenario where this type of - well, it's going to
be war, Bill; there's going to be a war - how this can be realized and
how it can be made credible to everybody here living in the West?
And the way it's going to be made credible is by a state like Iran being
used as a patsy to use a nuclear weapon in order to elicit an exchange.
B: And the whole justification of this, then, is to provide or to trick
China into a war, with what reason?
W: China will then come to the aid of Iran, very quickly. And what we're
talking about is these "Roads to Jerusalem," as it were.
And it should
be no surprise that the Chinese have got their own "Road to Jerusalem,"
so to speak, because that's where the oil is - their lifeline - and
that's where their power could be extended far more than where it is at
B: I didn't understand what you meant there by Jerusalem. Was that a
metaphor, talking about Iran?
W: Yes. It was my metaphor. Although I haven't mentioned it to you
previously, you know, they talk about "the road to Jerusalem," as it
were. People like Benjamin Netanyahu use it quite a lot. Obama has used
it. The Chinese president has actually used it, I believe, too. Hu
Jintao, his name is.
They've actually used this metaphor.
B: I didn't know that.
W: Yes, they have. It's where that road lies. Does it lie through
Tehran, going one way? Or does it lie through Tehran again, coming the
B: Okay, so you're using it basically as a metaphor for a desired goal,
something that's reached and attained.
W: That's right.
B: Okay. So what you're saying, then, is that there's a long-term plan
which has being decided quite a while ago to set up the situation, to
set up the chessboard, the global chessboard, so that there will be a
war with China. This is what you're saying.
W: Yes, in a nutshell. You've got it. It's a whole series of events, and
a lot of them have been realized. And again I can only emphasize that
time seems to be critical.
B: What has happened, and what is yet to happen, and what is the
eventual roll-out plan that they want to happen if everything that they
wanted were to occur?
W: Well, the plan is for the fuse to be set off in
the Middle East
again, in a way that would make the previous conflicts in the Middle
East look like playground scraps.
It will involve the use of nuclear weapons and, again, it's to create an
atmosphere of chaos and extreme fear, not just in the West but
throughout the world, and to put in place what I've mentioned as unified
totalitarian Western governments; and to do this China needs to be taken
out, politically and socially, for this to happen.
B: So what they're doing here, they're killing two birds with one stone.
They're using this as a justification to create what many on the
Internet have called the
One World Government, except that's not
including China. You're talking about the Western nations in lockdown
alliance against this new threat.
W: It's specifically the Western nations, but I think we've also got to
include Japan in this too.
B: And how about Russia? Where does Russia stand?
W: I believe Russia is a player, but I've got no evidence. For some
reason or other Russia really doesn't get a look in here; and it's just
an assumption of mine that that Russian government that's in place at
the moment is hand-in-hand with the controlling players that are here in
B: Hm. So you're saying that because in this meeting that you attended,
Russia wasn't mentioned as a major factor.
W: No, none at all. The only way it was mentioned is that the whole idea
is to create a condition of chaos throughout the world. It would mean
the later use of biological weapons, widespread food shortages, which
will affect vulnerable countries across the globe, followed by mass
starvation and disease.
The only mention that Russia gets in here is an odd one which I can't
explain and maybe someone else can. I can't really get my head around
But within this meeting it was mentioned:
"to cause the Chinese
military to attack Eastern Russia".
Now, I can't qualify that and why
that was mentioned at the meeting - I just don't know.
B: Okay. So just to go back to what I mentioned a minute ago, about two
birds with one stone. One goal here, then, is to establish a united
alliance of Western countries with a kind of totalitarian "emergency war
footing", heavy control aspect to it.
And the other aspect is actually
to light the fire of this war, which will result in all kinds of chaos
and presumably an enormous number of people dying somewhere.
B: The Chinese population? Or everyone on the planet? Is this part of
population reduction plan? What did they say?
W: Well, there was talk about biological agents being used, described as
being flu-like and it would spread like wildfire. Now, they didn't
mention it at this meeting, but I know now that it will attack people
genetically, not everybody together. How that would happen... I'm not a
geneticist, I really don't know.
One can only assume that it's linked to
DNA in some way.
B: Mm hm.
W: And the differences that are found in DNA. These differences have
been identified and the viruses can be made that could kill a person off
and do it quite quickly.
B: And so
the viruses are genetically targeted is what you're saying?
B: Genetically targeted for racial type, or more specific even than
W: Racial type. I can be quite definite on that. They're talking about
extinction of a whole part of the human race, doing so genetically.
B: Really? Did they mention that in this meeting, in those terms?
W: Not exactly. Those are my terms. But this is how it was mentioned,
and this is my recall of it and how this came out and how I've
W: But that's what it most definitely alluded to.
B: Are they talking about getting the Chinese out of the way because
they're an inconvenient major group that's not playing ball with the
global plans? Or are they talking about this as an excuse to thin down
the entire world's population, including that in the Western countries?
W: Well, it's a very good question and as far as I can see, it's a
Again, I can't give you an answer to that one. From a
personal point of view, it definitely appears to be a thinning of the
world's population and it's getting it down into a controllable size for
this government that's going to come, in order for them to have the
control that they wish for.
Otherwise, they wouldn't have it.
It even sickens me to speak about this now, it really does. It sickens
me no end that they would go ahead and do this sort of thing; that such
things have actually been spoken about.
They're bringing the population
down to what they coldly believe to be a "manageable level".
B: Can you reference in this meeting that you attended to those levels,
or the numbers, or the percentages, or anything tangible that you can
W: Yes. They're talking about half.
B: Wow. That's a lot of people.
W: Yes. It is.
W: That's bringing it back down by half.
B: So that's more than the Chinese, then. That answers that question,
W: Well, in a nuclear exchange - and I believe there will be a limited
nuclear exchange - there will be some sort of ceasefire. That was
spoken about; they anticipated a quick ceasefire, but not before
millions had already died, principally in the Middle East.
So we're probably talking about Israel here, the population in Israel
being sacrificed. Also places like Syria, Lebanon, possibly Iraq,
definitely Iran, you know, the towns and major cities, power plants and
so forth, that sort of thing.
And then a ceasefire before it goes
B: A cease...? Wow. Sorry, I'm interrupting you, I do apologize. A
ceasefire before it goes full-out?
W: Yes, it's like some sort of game of poker where they already know
what hands are going to be dealt. They know what's going to be dealt.
They know that scenario could be brought about and that scenario can be
ended again with a ceasefire.
So we'll have the ceasefire, and it's
during this time of the ceasefire that events will start to really take
B: Do you know how?
W: Yes. This is when
will be used.
W: This will create the conditions where biological weapons can be used.
And here you've got to imagine a world, now post-nuclear war, or limited
nuclear war, in chaos, financial collapse, totalitarian governments
coming into place.
B: And a lot of damage to infrastructure.
W: People living in total fear and panic - this is what's going to
happen next. You'll have a scenario... and this again was talked about,
and I can go into some detail about how people will become more
controllable with no one coming out in contention about what's going to
happen because their own safety and security has now being placed firmly
in the hands of those who are saying they can protect it best.
And it's in this ensuing chaos of a post-nuclear exchange that these
biological weapons will be deployed in such a fashion where there will
be no structure, no safety-nets, for anybody to counter this type of
And it should be mentioned, for those who are not aware, that biological
weapons are just as effective as nuclear ones; it just takes a while
longer - that's all.
B: Yes. Now, the deployment of the biological weapons following the
ceasefire, is that something that happens covertly, like all of a sudden
people will start getting ill and no one knows where it came from? Or is
this an overt weapon deployment that would be very obvious?
W: I don't think it would be overt, because the Chinese people are going
to be hit by the flu! So there'll be a worldwide flu epidemic, perhaps,
with a country like China - or China, because China is mentioned - being the one that's going to suffer most.
B: Okay. Now, if you were a Chinese military commander, what would you
do in this situation? Presumably you would retaliate.
W: Yes, indeed. The type of retaliation the Chinese armed forces could
provide is not the same as those that are held in the West. The type of
weapons that the West can deploy very, very quickly far outstrips
anything that's within the technological grasp of the Chinese armed
forces at the moment - although they're getting better as time goes on.
But when I'm talking about China, we're talking about the People's
Liberation Army, the People's Army, getting together quite quickly, and
you're talking about mass movements of troops somehow into zones where
they can engage with their opposite number.
And in this type of exchange that's going to be nuclear... that's why I
mentioned right at the very beginning... there will be a conventional
war to begin with, then it will quickly go to nuclear with either Iran
or the Chinese being provoked into first use, is because they won't be
able to be in a position to defend themselves properly against what the
West can deliver conventionally without going nuclear first.
B: Okay. So the Chinese are going to be obliged to go into a preemptive
W: Yes, all their options will be taken away from them... the
retaliatory options will be taken away from them quite quickly and they
wouldn't have time to recover.
B: Okay, now, what you were describing there was the situation before
the ceasefire, when China was going to be provoked into using nuclear
W: I think it's best to look at this in stages. So we're talking about a
conventional war of sorts; that war then eliciting the use of a nuclear
weapon either by the Chinese or by the Iranians.
W: Probably more likely by Iran, to stop it going any further. Then
we're talking about an exchange of weapons and then a ceasefire before
we have something that's no longer confined to a geographical area.
B: What does that look like? Is this global? For instance, are you
talking nuclear weapons on American territory, in Europe, and so forth?
W: No. Global nuclear war wasn't mentioned.
W: It was just purely geographical, Middle East.
B: Okay. So actually some people would refer to this as the Armageddon
war, the war that's been prophesied.
W: Yes. That's right. For those who are looking down those roads, you
know, it certainly highlights a time where this sort of thing is going
to occur. But probably not the way they thought, because I can't
emphasize this too much: people in general are going to be placed into
such a state of panic and fear that they're going to wish for a strong
They won't call them totalitarian governments; they'll be military
governments with the civil government still there but in a redundant
mode. The military will call the shots - the same way as a general does
in Afghanistan, or previously in Iraq.
The general in command takes over
the scene. He makes the calls.
So we have to imagine the same sort of thing within a country where
you've got a military-based civil government, calling the shots, with
the so-called elected government almost redundant.
government will provide the security for the people who are living in
these countries who have yet to be affected by this type of onslaught.
B: Okay. What's the timing for this series of events, as best you know?
W: As best I know... 18 months. It's definitely before
W: Or around 2012, sometime in that year.
B: Now somebody reading this will ask: Okay, so this is what they were
discussing in 2005.
How can you know that this plan is still on track,
that things haven't changed radically, that they haven't abandoned it
completely, that there hasn't been some big U-turn or epiphany here?
What makes you so certain that this is still on track?
W: Because of the events that have taken place since 2005. I think
that's probably the most coherent way to look at it.
We've already had a
It wasn't a collapse at all. It was a
centralization of financial power. That's happened. It's certainly
happened in the United States. It's most certainly happened in the
United Kingdom. It's most certainly happened in France and in Germany.
So all the key players in the Western world centralized their financial
B: Was this talked about in the meeting?
W: Yes! It took up quite a large part of that meeting about how it was
going to happen. Bear in mind where the meeting took place - in the
City of London. The City is the financial hub of the world, beyond any
B: So what you're saying then is that all of these things have happened
according to their roll-out of this plan.
W: That's right - and all the preparations that need to be in place
before this type of conflict takes place, that's already been put in
B: Such as what? What are you referring to?
W: Well you're talking about key figures taking over. Let's take a good
example here and this is one that probably most people in the United
Kingdom are unaware of, is that the British private security industry
employs somewhere in the region of 500,000 people, which is far more
than the UK military.
The UK military is far smaller than that. The UK
military is only a couple of hundred thousand. You're talking 500,000
people working in private security industry at the moment.
Now prior to 2005, there was no regulation for that. There was no
training for them. There was no unification of that force of people. And
behind the scenes - and this is something people should be able to be
aware of, especially living in the UK - there was the
Security Industry Act.
Now, that act meant that anybody working within the private sector had
to undergo certain training. They also had to be police-checked. It
makes a kind of civilian sense for people who are working in areas of
such security responsibility should be police-checked.
These police checks... everything gets found out. It's not just if
you've committed a crime or not. Believe me, you can find out far much
more about that individual through a police check.
And then there's training. This training is all about managing conflict:
what to do in times of conflict, how to manage it, how to control it.
And then they're taught how to use controlled force.
It extends from
B: So you're talking about handling problems of civil unrest and so on.
This is all a setup for that.
W: Indeed. You can take the protests that took place after the 2003
invasion of Iraq, here in the United Kingdom and in Western Europe and
also in the States, but mostly in Western Europe. It was almost like a
mass uprising against the war in Iraq. That won't be repeated again. It
But the people in this industry need to be lawfully empowered in order
to do their job because they'll still be working protecting assets, so
they'll still be doing their job.
And at the moment as we speak the
Security Industry Association is seeking and receiving more powers on
top of the powers that they've already been given. They've already been
licensed to operate legally within the civilian environment. Now they're
getting the additional police powers they need.
It's not just for those in the British security industry; it's also
those who are called "civilian enforcement officers": parking
attendants, that sort of thing; community police officers; those who are
aiding the police in order for them to do their job, they're getting
powers commensurate with the responsibilities that's required to enable
them to do the job effectively.
So we're talking about powers of arrest;
powers of detention; we're talking down those lines.
And that's going to
B: Is this happening in other Western countries as well, do you know?
W: Well, it's already occurred in other Western countries, places like
France and Germany, where you've got several police forces working
together. You don't have one police force, as it were, that you could
identify and say: Well, they're the police. They've got other agencies
and they all carry similar powers.
But those powers within the UK security industry just do not exist at
the moment. They already exist in the United States and it's a United
States model that's principally being used here.
B: Okay. Now, before you got into those details, we were talking about
the timeline - and I was asking you about what was your response to
somebody who wanted to know how you could be so sure this was more or
less on track, even though the meeting you attended was four years ago.
W: Almost five years ago now.
B: Almost five. Yes.
W: Yes. All I can say, Bill, is that just take on board what I've
mentioned, and if it does ring any bells with anyone - the veracity of
what's said can then be checked by themselves if they wish to do so.
W: Not everything's hidden. They can't possibly hide everything, and
then they can put the pieces of the puzzle together themselves and then
they'll find out that it's quite credible.
B: Yes. I have to admit, it is very credible, which is very sobering.
Right at the start of our conversation, you said that... this is my
paraphrase... you said that this was a race against time from their
point of view. Why?
W: There's lots of things going to be happening within the next few
years and it's all to do with power.
Some of it, I don't fully
understand myself, to be honest with you. But from what I do understand,
there is quite a lot of power-brokering going on, and it's principally
that those who have been in control of most of society for not just
hundreds of years, but for thousands of years, wish that control to
continue. And in order to do that, a sequence of events has to be
manufactured in order for that to happen. What I've just described to
you is probably the first part.
So we're going to head into this war, then after that... and I can't
give you a timescale for when this is going to happen... there will be
geophysical event taking place on Earth which is going to affect
Now, by that time we will all have been through a nuclear and biological
war. The Earth's population, if this happens, will be drastically
reduced. When this geophysical event is going to take place, then those
remaining will probably be halved again. And who survives that is going
to determine who takes the world and its surviving population into the
So we are talking about a post-cataclysmic-event era. Who's going to be
in charge? Who's going to be in control? So it's all about that. And
that's why they're so desperate for these things to happen within a set
Otherwise they'll lose out.
B: Okay. Let me play devil's advocate here, and talk to me from your
standpoint of having quite a lot of in-depth military experience and
familiarity with military thinking.
Why is the war and the establishment
of the totalitarian government, and the atmosphere of fear, and so on
and so forth, why is all that needed if there is going to be a
geophysical event, as you put it, which would further disrupt
infrastructure, result in a lot of deaths, result in all manner of
emergencies all over the world, earthquakes, tsunamis, goodness knows
That alone would justify martial law in most countries and states
of emergency and those same factions could easily justify assuming power
in that kind of an emergency. Why is the war part of this scenario?
don't understand that.
W: I think you have to look at it from a different point of view. After
a cataclysmic event, there will be little or no structure. And if
there's no structure, that means a structure has to be put back in
A structure needs to be in place before that happens with some sort of
certainty that it will survive what's going to come - so that it can
land on both feet the day after, and then remain in power and have the
power that it's enjoyed previously.
B: So, it's a justification for strengthening the critical parts of the
infrastructure actually in preparation for the cataclysm which in
routine civilian times might not be so strong. This is what you're
W: Indeed. And I'm going into an area where I can only give subjective
views the same as any other person could, but the feeling, and it's a
very intuitive one, is that they've got to get their act together now.
They've got to get their powerbase properly in place. And the only way
they're going to do that is to create the circumstances for that to
happen, i.e., a conflict.
And we can all look back through history. Every war has achieved an aim.
Besides the suffering, the human suffering that goes on, it's always
achieved an aim. And the aim is always on the side of the victor.
So, we're looking at this totalitarian regime, which I believe is
already totalitarian anyway. I mean, we do not have a democracy at all.
Nobody's got a say. This has already been decided over and above
We don't matter, as it were. We really don't matter. They matter, and
their power matters, and that's the only thing that's being thought
And I believe if you tapped into the mindset of someone who
operates in that type of way, you'd understand what they're going to do
and why they're doing it and why they want to control the endgame and be
in power at the end of it, intact, because this geophysical event is
going to be survivable.
B: Do you have any indications when this is? This implies, from what
you're saying, that they're kind of expecting something to happen in
2012. Is this a 2012 event?
W: No, this isn't really centered around
21st December, 2012. I don't
know what's going to happen on 21st December, 2012.
I've got strong suspicions that it's going to be something else, maybe
something nice for everybody. I really don't know. But certainly around
that time we're going to be in a conflict that's going to take as long
as it takes. But we're talking about some years after 2012 when this
geophysical event is going to take place.
I've judged that to be in my
B: Okay. So let me feed this back to you, this roll-out of events you
describe: the nuclear exchange and the ceasefire, and then the use of
biological weapons... what you're saying is that this is going to result
in such chaos actually that it will take a generation of humanity to
rebuild all of that.
And during all of that time there will have to be
some kind of a heavy totalitarian infrastructure in order to cope with
this on-going emergency and re-build. And then sometime in there,
there's going to be this major geophysical event, but they've got to get
started as soon as possible.
Is that right?
W: That's correct. That's right.
B: Do you think that they know when this is happening? Or do you think
they think it's just happening "sometime"?
W: Yes. I think they've got a good idea of when it's going to happen. I
don't know when that is. However, I've got this very strong feeling that
it's going to happen in my lifetime, say within 20 years. You could
probably bring that back even further - between now and ten years;
between now and five years.
W: You know, I really don't know. I wish I did know.
It's something that
I'd love to know, but we've now entered into that period where this
geophysical event is about to take place, when we consider the length of
time that's passed since the last one which happened about 11,500 years
ago (the last deluge?), and it happens round about 11,500 years, cyclically. It's now due
to happen again.
W: To what degree it's going to affect the world, one can only imagine,
and I'm sure there's contingency plans in place right now for that event
to happen because I believe that is widely known within these circles.
They understand it's going to happen.
They have a certainty of knowledge
that it's going to happen. They may have a timeframe, and it appears
likely that they have. Again, it's one of these things - it would be
inconceivable if they didn't know. I mean, the best brains in the world
will be working for them on this. You know?
And they know all about it,
and personally, I don't.
B: Was this talked about in your meeting at all?
W: No, it wasn't openly spoken about. Let me summarize what was
discussed at the meeting:
Iran will be attacked, possibly within 18 months
China will come to the
aid of Iran, to protect its own interests
Nuclear weapons will be used
either by Iran or China, with Israel provoking the first use
the Middle East will be laid to waste
Millions will die within a very
short period of time
And for some reason this is here, and I can't tell
you why: China will move forcibly into parts of Russia to extend
Thereafter, biological weapons will be deployed against
China. China will "catch a cold".
And my own understanding is that there's some sort of
alliance at work for 50 years by the UK and US and other Western powers,
and this includes Japan.
And, again, when we talk about a malevolent ET alliance that's in the
black projects, and this is an exchange of technologies
that's been going on for some considerable time. So there is an
involvement there, and that involvement I can't fully explain myself.
And I also understand that there are more humanitarian and altruistic ET
entities working against this timeline and are somehow maintaining a
precarious balance without taking any direct intervention themselves.
And again, I can't fully explain that but it's a certain intuitive
feeling that this is working and there's other aspects of my experience
that's led me to make that statement - but that's another story.
So what we're talking about is the Western powers seeking a 'perfect
war' - doing so throughout the 20th century right up till the present
day, because this timeline goes way back. So we're talking decades or
hundreds of years of time where this timeline has been in use.
And also I think it's quite important to associate the timeline with its
other reference which I've heard several times now: it's called THE
I feel that's important to add because that may
ring some bells with some people as I don't think it's been mentioned
B: I've heard that phrase before. I don't want to digress here, but the
flag which I've got against that - and actually which I'm really
starting to understand and it's as chilling as it gets, from what you're
saying - that the reason why it's called The Anglo-Saxon Mission is
because basically the plan is to wipe out the Chinese so that after the
cataclysm and when things are rebuilt, it will be the Anglo-Saxons who
are in a position to rebuild and inherit the new Earth, with no one else
Is that right?
W: Whether that's right I really don't know, but I would agree with you.
Through the 20th century at least, and even before into the 19th and
18th centuries, the history of this world has been predominantly run
from the West and from the Northern region on the planet. Others have
tried but failed.
And it's safe to say that World War One and World War Two
manufactured wars. I'm quite sure of that. And they were used as
stepping-stones to get to where they are now. Any historian will tell
you that if that didn't happen, this wouldn't have happened.
the United Nations; we wouldn't have had the United States of
America becoming a superpower in such a short period of time. They
became a superpower within four years of war. And they ended up with
People, I feel, have got to bring this into their own personal agendas.
The West becoming the predominant force in the world is there.
B: Retrospectively looking back on it, you can see a sort of long-term
strategy that extends over a number of generations even though one
couldn't see the wood for the trees at the time.
W: That's the nature of people - really. You know, we just live our own
lives with those of our families and those close to us and do the best
we can. It's not very often that we stick our heads above the parapet
and have a good look around to see what's really happening. We're not
very good at doing that, I'm afraid.
I'm a good example. I've been involved in so many things, I've just got
my head down and just got on with what I was doing, ignoring what was
going on, possibly subconsciously denying what was happening until I
really had to say something about it.
B: Yes. Just on a personal note, it must be quite hard living with this
personal experience that you've had of being party to these
conversations and knowing that this isn't just some fantasy because you
heard these people talking about this, laughing about it.
W: Well, it was quite informal. I mean, they were very comfortable
talking about this.
How can I describe the people who I'm talking about better? The people
who I'm talking about are people who exude power. They elicit fear. They
demand obedience and by God do they get it! And by the way they talk
they're dictating to the so-called elected governments that we've got in
Parliament or in Washington or in Berlin or in Paris. These people exude
that kind of power, and beyond that what can I say?
I'm sure other people have come across characters like that in their
lives. There's not a compassionate bone in their body. They do not
resonate any spiritual warmth whatsoever. They're cold, they're
To use a phrase that's common here, "butter wouldn't melt
in their mouth".
B: A lot of people out there speculate that at some level, maybe not at
the level of the people who you were meeting with in the room, but at
some level, in this behind-the-scenes government that is orchestrating
this entire plan, lies a non-human intelligence.
And one of the arguments for that is that it takes an enormous amount of
long-term thinking, strategic cunning, to plan going over many
generations, which is the result of an extremely high intelligence just
to play this chess game on such an enormous scale.
So some people,
myself included, suggest that this must be a non-human intelligence
that's behind this.
W: Yes. And my perception is that this intelligence is incredibly
logical, without any empathy, without any love, care, understanding or
They're cold and calculating and logical beyond any logic
that we could muster normally. They go well beyond that - they're such
supremely intelligent people. These are people who can produce answers
to really difficult questions without blinking an eye.
They are very,
very bright people, but bright only in the sense that their logic is
B: What can ordinary people do? How should they react? How should they
think? Do you personally feel that this is inevitable? Do you think
we're all doomed in some way?
W: No, absolutely not. I've often thought about this, Bill, and this of
course is a personal view: We will endure. But to endure, from one
person to the next, is not to work for them anymore. It's to stop
working for them. It's not to react violently against them because
They would love that to happen, then it gives them an
excuse. They breed on fear and violence - the reaction from fear. That
would be like bees to honey for them. They would love that to happen.
What's needed is non-violent reaction: simply just not doing the job for
them any more. To give a comparison, Bill. There was a man who history
has largely ignored. He was a Frenchman, by the name of
It's always surprised me why this incredible character has never entered
the history books. He's quite well known in France in some circles, but
not widely known.
He predicted the First World War happening. He wanted the International
Workers' Movement to not comply with the
royal families and aristocracy,
and when you read about him you'll find this out yourself.
Just a couple
of months before the outbreak, when the assassination of Archduke
Ferdinand took place in Serbia, Jaurès was assassinated in a French
café. They killed him. He was shot dead, and with him went that
Prior to World War One, he saw the writing on the wall. He saw the
aristocracies and the royal families of Europe pitting themselves
against one another, in a big battle. He knew that France and Germany,
the United Kingdom were all industrialized nations. He further realized
that being industrialized, the next war will be an industrial war where
millions of people might be killed.
He formed a movement which some have termed as communist. It was the
International Workers' Movement, and it's got nothing to do with
politics. His idea was for the ordinary person not to do anything, not
to go to war, just stay at home and they wouldn't have the war they
I personally believe that if non-violence is adopted and people become
more awake to what's happening, then these people very, very quickly
lose the power that they've got.
They feed on power. They feed on
So if you take these elements away from them they become powerless.
need us to do what they're doing. They can't do it on their own even
though they'll be damn dangerous in any event, but they can't do it all
on their own.
And that would be my message is just to wake up a bit, see what's
happening about us, put our heads above the parapet and without fearing
to do that, without feeling afraid, take a deep breath, have a look
around, see what's happening, and then people will soon realize: Oh
yeah. Okay. This is where we're going to go. This is where we're heading
and there's not much I can do about it. But they can!
As I've said, it's not to react violently. And if people are in
positions where these people need them, just don't work for them. Just
stop working for them. Take your labor away because they need the troops
who are going to do this work. We're not just talking about people in
the military. We're talking about every civilian member in all the
populations right across the globe.
Just say: No, because this is not
us. This is not what we want to do.
And it's making that choice. It sounds ridiculously simple. I think the
execution of it is that simple and it's well within our power as human
beings, conscious living, breathing, human beings who have a shared
compassion for one another to do that.
Because if we don't, they'll
carry on and then they'll realize their endgame.
B: Do you think, from your own military experience, that there are
enough people in the military who are saying: You know what? I didn't
sign up for this. I'm not going to do this. Or do you think that they'll
buy into all the justifications that are being set up at the moment?
W: Well, by and large the Western military is not a conscripted army.
It's a professional army, and it prides itself on its professionalism.
It prides itself on acting on behalf of the people who elected the
government who sent them out to do the job that they're doing. It's a
very difficult question to answer.
And of course, these troops are
superbly trained and they believe, they wholly believe, as I did when I
was in the military, that you're doing the job for all the right
If it became clear to people who are in such professions - this is not
just the military; we're talking about the emergency services, the
police, all those who've made their way into the security industry,
we're talking about all these people. If enough voices were heard, then
those in the military who have not achieved any significant rank, who
have no particular stake in the game, will then wake up themselves just
as soon as anybody else.
But it's got to be borne in mind that the Western powers have
professional military services, and it's a difficult thing to do to make
it clear and let these guys and girls know that they're not fighting the
B: Sure. Let me ask a different question. Was there reference to "safe
or safer places to be"? Physically, I mean.
W: No. None at all.
B: Nothing like the southern hemisphere is okay, the northern hemisphere
is going to be a problem? Nothing like that?
W: No, not at that meeting. That wasn't mentioned at all.
B: Okay. Another question I'd like to ask you, and it's a fascinating
one to debate among people who are tuned in to this whole area, is a
personal one: why do you feel that the benevolent ETs, and I'm sure that
they exist, why do you think that they don't step in to say: Okay, guys,
normally we're hands-off, but this is getting serious here and we're not
going to allow this to happen.
Is that possible? Why do they maintain
such a distance?
W: Well, first things first. "These benevolent ETs" - I don't actually
like calling them "ETs"... I believe that these people are us and we are
W: They've been around for a lot longer than the regime that's in power
at the moment. This present regime, this power-based regime, some have
reptilians, and I've got no problem at all calling them that
because that's exactly what they're like - totally cold-hearted.
They've been around much, much longer and they're the ones who have
really made humanity what it is today.
Interventions? I believe they've been intervening in the best ways that
they can. But we're talking about very spiritually evolved beings, as
the human race is very spiritually evolved - maybe that's why we come
back here so often, back to this planet.
But for these people who are us and we are them, as I mentioned, they
don't see time the same way that we understand time here within the
physical world. For them, 11,500 years ago was a blink of an eye. It was
nothing, and they already know what the endgame is going to be. They
believe, as I believe, that this regime that's in power at the moment
who wish this total dominance over the Earth and everything that's in
it, are not going to win.
They're having their time now and their time
is about to end.
B: On what basis do you feel that? This is very important for people
reading this transcript because some people will be feeling numbed and
shocked at the information that you've presented, thinking: Oh God,
we're really stitched up here.
W: Yes, I think if you take it from the purely physical point of view.
It doesn't mean that we've all got suicidal minds or something like
that. We all want our lives; we all cherish our lives; everybody does.
We love our lives and we want to experience them fully in all ways, in
the best way we possibly can.
We're currently being prevented from doing so because of this regime,
which is based in fear; it's all about fear. And the greatest fear that
we've got physically is fear of death, and that's part of the greatest
power that they've got over us, is this type of fear, this anxiety that
they can raise or lower - which they're doing all the time.
I can't think of a moment when this hasn't happened, when this fear
doesn't come out and then we react to it the way that we do. It seems
perfectly natural. But what happens when we don't, stop feeling this and
say: Well, it's only fear. We can get over this, then that's tapping
into who we really are.
I don't yet believe there are enough people around at the moment who
know who they are. They define themselves by their own physical
existence, which is all fear-based, and it's cyclical, and they just
can't get out of it. And obviously they need to find their way out of
I believe, personally, that come this shift - I call it a shift because
that's what I believe is going to happen; the Earth's crust is going to
shift round about 30 degrees, about 1700 to 2000 miles southwards, and
it will cause a huge upheaval, effects of which will last for a very
long time to come.
But the human race isn't going to die off. We're
still going to be here. It's who we are at the end of that - is where
my mind is. And as for this regime, that's where their mind is. This is
why they're doing what they're doing because they want to be in control
at the end of it.
Now, if we're talking about intervention, this is when there will be an
intervention by the "benevolent ETs." The people who are really us, this
is when it may happen, but I don't know. I've got a strong intuitive
feeling it will, but at the moment the situation that we have right now
is not conducive for that type of intervention. Not right now.
They don't feel it's the right time. And in any event, physical life is
only a very, very small part of who we really are, so how much
importance do you place on that, knowing that when you walk from this
door into the next door, you're back home anyway?
So all that's got to be taken into consideration, and I'm sure there's
people out there who could articulate this far better than I'm
articulating this right now. I can only articulate this from a very
personal point of view and that's what I feel intuitively might happen.
And I say might knowing full well that I can be certain within my own
self that that sort of thing will happen, and it's just the pain that we
have to go through of reaching that point where this regime will no
longer have the power that they've got.
People wakening up, finding out what's going on around them and really
having a good look, and raising their conscious levels as they've never
done before, and then everything will click into place quite quickly.
And when it does, the power that these people have will just fall off
them like a towel, you know, just fall right off them, and they'll be
exposed for what they are.
B: That's a very inspiring thought. Do you feel personally that... Let
me specify a number of alternatives: That the whole war might not happen
at all; that the whole thing will just fall apart? Or that all of this
will fall apart after the war but before the cataclysm?
Or that all of
this will fall apart after the cataclysm and that the Meek will inherit
the Earth, let's say?
W: Yes. This is an extremely good question. Let's consider two things:
the first thing is the sheer determination on the part of this regime,
for want of a better word, the sheer determination that they have to
have this done. They're desperate. They're going full-out for this to
They're creating the scenarios, the in, the out. It's
relentless; it's non-stop; there's no breathing space. And when there is
breathing space, I mean, when people start to relax about things,
something else will pop up to keep us within that grip of fear that
That is a hugely powerful force that they have, massively powerful, and
it should never be underestimated. It's the sort of thing that drives
good, honest people around the bend, putting people early into their
graves through stress and anxiety. It's coming away from that and seeing
it for what it is.
If there's enough people who can raise the levels of awareness and just
see what's happening, then everybody else will bring their heads up. I
think it only needs one or two people to put their head up and just say:
Yep. All's clear, and everybody else will come up. Then you'll see them
all around the world, in various countries, just a new feeling, a better
feeling than what we've had before, and that's all about individuals
empowering themselves by acknowledging who they really are.
And it's nothing mystical. It's nothing deeply cultish or anything like
that. It's got very little to do with religion.
It's all about the human
spirit and the consciousness which we live through and that we all share
and knowing that consciousness is undoubtedly shared by all of us - but
is presently suppressed. And we have to get past those suppressive
forces in order to realize who we are.
When that happens - all else
will follow quite naturally and that regime, dangerous as they are - I
can't emphasize this too much: These are damn dangerous people,
extremely dangerous - their power will go.
B: This is extremely close to what
David Icke talks about. It's
extremely close to what Dr.
Bill Deagle talks about, and to what we've
talked about a number of times.
B: That there's a rise in consciousness going on on the planet, but
they're desperately trying to close the lid and to accelerate their own
plans so that they can put in place the iron fist of control.
get worse before they get better, but they're not going to win out in
the end because consciousness transcends all the force and all the
military might and all the strategic planning that they could put into
place. And it's a question of that collective consciousness continuing
to expand, as it seems to be.
And this interview here that we're doing needs to play a part in that.
Because it's not about scaring people witless and having them all hide
in bunkers with emergency food. It's actually about saying: Listen, it
doesn't have to be like this if we can be as big as we are, and as brave
as we can be, and as strong as we can be, and realize who we really are.
And if enough of us do that, then this just isn't going to roll out like
W: That's right. I'm coming out saying exactly this. I realize I'm not
saying anything that's unique at all, but as you're indicating, it's got
to be repeated. People have got to be aware that there's hope, and
things need not be the way they are. They never needed to be the way
they are. It can be far, far better.
It's getting over the fear; it's this fear that people need to get over.
We don't have to be psychiatrists or psychologists or anything like that
- they only deal with the mind. We don't have to be religious leaders
or great spiritual thinkers to be aware of this, because we all have it
within us. It's inherent within us. So it's a matter of looking into
oneself and then becoming comfortable with who you are; then you'll have
a knowing of what's going on and know that it's wrong.
else... it will just spread.
Even those who've been indoctrinated into this regime of fear will not
be able to resist it because to do so is just resisting themselves and
who they really are. And it's a wonderful thing; it's what this universe
is all about and what this whole experience is all about. And it will
make these periods, these last so many thousands of years, be just...
not even a bad memory... just like: Hm!
Well, we've learnt from that.
Okay? And we'll make sure that doesn't happen again, and that these kind
of characters who can produce this kind of fear, you know, don't ever
get a power base here again.
So, yes, I think those days are coming and if it does happen in time - and 'time' is one of those words that you use very carefully because
this regime is very time-based, where the human consciousness isn't
really concerned with time so much, but they definitely are because of
the physical nature of the Earth. It does things at certain times. You
know, we have seasons: spring, summer, autumn, winter. The shift that's
coming is just like another season.
What's going to happen is geophysical change; it's another season, and a
very aware humanity could most possibly take this in their stride and
come out the other end of it very well indeed.
I know you mentioned about safe places for people to go. I really don't
know. But from a personal point of view, I know where I should be, and
where I should be is where I am right now.
Whether it's safe or not is
immaterial; it's where I should be right now, and I feel comfortable
B: Yes. When people ask us that question about where they should be, we
always reflect it back and point out that the answer is going to be
different for every individual, based upon things that no one else apart
from them can really know.
Some people may need to stay put; some people may need to travel, but
the reason for that might be because they've got somebody to meet and
something to do in some other location. It really depends on so many
factors, not just a question of: what's objectively safe and where
should we hide? It's got more to do with: how can we best deploy all of
the abilities that we have here and now to do whatever it is that we're
here to do?
And that's going to be individual to everybody.
W: Absolutely. It is. I think the more aware that people become, the
fear factor goes. We don't live in that fear, so what you previously
feared may no longer be a fear for that individual or for that group of
people, for that matter. It just won't be there.
That's not to say there won't be any concerns, there won't be any pain
or things like that; of course there will. But on top of all that, the
fears that we currently experience, the physical fears of the
uncertainties and the unpredictable nature of things, will be gone - they'll just go.
We'll be left being the people who we are, and I think
the human race as a whole is pretty damn wonderful.
B: Yes. That's a wonderful thing for people to take with them, something
that we've often mentioned. There's a wonderful movie. It goes back to
1984, a Jeff Bridges movie called
The starman is an alien
visitor who's here for peaceful purposes, trying to understand the human
race because he's got caught up in a strange situation. And he's trying
to get back home.
Towards the end of the movie he says: Would you like to know what I find
beautiful about your species? You are at your best when things are at
I've never forgotten that line. It's got to do the with the fact that
what's marvelous about the human race is the ability to transcend
problems and reach deep within themselves to produce the very best out
of themselves in the worst situations.
And of course, in the military
that kind of situation is almost a tradition, that under extraordinary
pressure you have people behaving with incredible heroism, and it's that
response to pressure that makes us wonderful.
W: Yes, it's more noticeable in the military because that gets reported
out. Human consciousness and how we exist through this physical world is
A good point to consider is that we may think
sometimes we've got a deadlock in ethical thinking about some things,
but we don't really. Things simply differ from one person to the next
which I think is another wonderful thing because it can keep
conversations going for ever and ever, which is fantastic. The dialog we
have helps us to understand ourselves so much better.
But it transcends deadlock, I think. It goes beyond that. It goes beyond
what we know to be ethically right and so forth. It takes it to a
different level when these things happen, when our resilience is tested
to this extreme. We're all capable of doing very wonderful things and it
looks likely, very likely, that we're on the cusp of where that
resilience is going to be tested to the extreme.
I'm going to emphasize again that we're playing against very dangerous
people, extremely dangerous people, incredibly powerful people. And I
know from my own experience that not many people have had first-hand
experience with that type of power and how it exudes, and how it affects
one's person... it can make you very, very sick, make you ill to the
point of breakdown.
Or you join in with them, become subservient and be
sycophantic to everything that they want to do, because the people who
do work for them and do their bidding - and there's quite a large
number of them - are incredibly obedient and incredibly servile.
They're not what you call "free spirits" at all.
You know, they've been
taken in, taken in by them.
Maybe that's something that people should begin to be aware of, of the
kind of power that they hold at the moment, and I don't think that's
been fully grasped yet. People are trying to see in between the margins
to find out what's going on and getting snippets of information, and
those snippets are going to be very, very important.
But to act against them in any way, it can be quite disastrous. I've had
that experience and I think many, many other people have too. So this is
maybe why we should tell exactly who they are, should announce ourselves
and be fearless about it.
It's because of that fear... that's at the
base of all that still exists.
B: Something that we spoke about earlier when we had a conversation a
few days ago was there's a supreme arrogance in these people, which
you've experienced at first-hand, which George Green described when we
first met and talked to him about a year and three-quarters ago: He
said: They think they've won.
They're not worried about anything any
more. They're not trying to silence all the alternative media. Not
really, you know. It's not going to make any difference. What difference
is a couple of voices going to make?
The plan's still going to roll out.
It's not going to make any difference at all, they believe, what you or
I might say.
W: Well I go along with what
George Green said. He's painted a far
better picture than I could, because that's exactly what it's like. They
are incredibly arrogant. Along with their other attributes that they
have, there is that arrogance there. It's quite tangible. Yes. And
they're just comfortable about what they're doing, totally comfortable.
They're not hiding around and sneaking about. I mean, these are quite
open people, some of them, public figures.
B: Okay. Now, is there anything that we missed? Is there anything that
you wanted to say but didn't have a chance to fully enlarge on? Is there
anything you want to add that I haven't even asked you about?
W: There's still such a story to tell, I think, because I'm very aware
that people need to see a decent level of credibility in what I've been
describing to you, and I guess that's always a difficulty.
But all I can
really say is I've been aware of this timeline since the early '70s, too
young to understand what it was at the time. In fact it seemed to me
quite an exciting thing that was going on, and that was the first time I
ever heard of the existence of the "Anglo Saxon Mission."
And details of what I know, I feel if I started mentioning names in
particular and what was mentioned and where I was at the time, might
compromise the Official Secrets Act, which I'm still party to in so many
aspects. I say the military. Where it's in a civilian environment, then
no; I feel happy talking about that.
I wish there was a way that I could describe other events, which you're
aware of, and do so in a manner that would allow people to understand me
far better than I've explained here. Then they'd see exactly where I'm
coming from, where I've been, and what I've been through. I feel that
then people could rationalize what's been said far better.
But I do feel that what's been said so far is enough for people, if they
so wish, to have a look themselves and uncover a few stones. And if
anything of significance does come out of it which other people can
corroborate, that would be fantastic. That would be good, because
evidence... You know, I know it's so crucial to do things like this, and
there's no smoking gun as such.
There's only one person reporting
something that happened five years ago, principally, but there is a
much, much larger story around that which you are aware of, and we need
to be extremely careful about where we go with that.
B: There are many people, of course, who do have access to the same
information you do. This is something that is known by thousands of
people in finance and the military and politics. It's widely known. It's
a very small proportion of the world's population, but it's still very
W: Absolutely. Yes.
B: And something that we've always encouraged, and we say it again here,
is that we encourage anyone who has experienced it first-hand or even at
second-hand, any aspect of this, to please step forward and know that
there's safety in numbers.
Know that the more people who break ranks and
have the courage that you have to speak out, the more will be heard, the
more will be understood, and the whole thing will be like a gradually
The snowball is rolling. It's quite small, but it is
W: Oh, it is. It is. There'll come a time where names will be named if
there's enough public support, and we will demand answers from those
So when enough fruit from the tree of evidence comes off, then these
people can be properly challenged, and then we can see a far different
story, you know, emerge from the one that people like myself are giving
you. It'll become more real, far more real. We can do that.
We can take
people to task.
B: Okay. All right. This is very, very important. I want to close by
saying: thank you for your courage, and thank you for your spirit.
W: Thank you very much, too, Bill.