Wayne Morris: 
				
				I would like to talk about, and you have mentioned the name, 
				Josef Mengele. What role did Josef Mengele play in developing 
				mind control? 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				He is like the father of modern programming. Prior to Josef Mengele, the Illuminati had created MPD, but the training of 
				those personalities had been non-scientific. Mengele worked a 
				lot with twins, understanding trauma and how to use trauma. If 
				somebody is about to die and they are rescued by their 
				programmer, they trauma-bond with that programmer. He learned 
				how to trauma-bond his victims to him. A lot of victims of mind 
				control in Israel and other parts of the world still refer to 
				him as "Papa", they love him. And if the programmer knows what 
				he’s doing, he can totally trauma-bond that victim to him to 
				where they love the programmer. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				It’s like the Stockholm Syndrome ... 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				He was taking programming into the world of science. In January 
				1945, when it was very clear that the Nazis were going to lose, 
				the Illuminati smuggled him out into the West where he continued 
				doing programming. I have worked with a number of his mind 
				control victims. One of his victims, a lady here in this area, 
				was actually in a concentration camp with Mengele; as a child 
				was experimented on and watched those horrors and had mind 
				control done in the concentration camps. And then she was 
				smuggled via the Ratline actually through your country, Canada, 
				came through the Catholic Church collaborators, brought her 
				through Quebec and then to Portland. And Josef Mengele continued 
				his mind control here in the States. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				Was Mengele involved in mind control experiments previous to 
				WWII? 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				I don’t believe so. He was in the Illuminati. His family is 
				Illuminati, but I don’t have any knowledge of him doing it prior 
				to the War. Of course I don’t know the whole story there. But 
				there was some reason as to why he was chosen for the position 
				that he received. There may be more to the story than I know.
				
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				It appears that a lot of experimentation was done on the victims 
				of the Holocaust. You have mentioned trauma experiments. What 
				other kinds of experiments were done as they relate to mind 
				control technology? 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				One of the things that Mengele was doing, and his friend Ewen 
				Cameron continued this, was experimentation on eye pigmentation. 
				One might say what does this have to do with mind control? Well, 
				like I said earlier, this type of mind control is a total 
				control - the mind, body and spirit of the victim is totally 
				controlled. It is far more extensive than people would imagine.
				
				
				This type of mind control regulates the heartbeat of the victim, 
				and a lot of other things. That’s why the suicide programming 
				can be so powerful. He started this pigmentation experimentation 
				which Ewen Cameron ... by the way, Josef Mengele, when he came 
				to the USA was known by the programming name, Dr. Green and Ewen 
				Cameron was known as Dr. White within the Illuminati circles. 
				Cisco Wheeler (whom I brought out of the Illuminati) - her 
				father was known as Dr. Black. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				You are saying that Cameron and Mengele were associates and 
				friends? 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				Yeah. Cisco would occasionally see these men (Drs. Green, and 
				White and there was a Dr. Blue) meet at her father’s house out 
				here on the West Coast. They would come together and discuss 
				their programmings, methodologies, networking, talking with each 
				other, etc. They were Program Masters within the Illuminati. 
				Mengele spent a lot of time travelling world-wide, not just here 
				in the Northwest. Cameron tended to work on the East coast and 
				as you are familiar, the Rockefeller Foundation gave him $40,000 
				back in 1943 to create the Allen Memorial Institute. Even before 
				Mengele came to this country, Cameron was already part of their 
				Illuminati system. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				Did Ewen Cameron have a particular role within the development 
				of mind control technology? I understood he specialized in 
				electroshock and went around the country teaching other 
				psychiatrists on methods of electroshock? Was that his role, or 
				was it broader? 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				They were all working on how to refine the thing - these were 
				your top of the line programmers. Mengele was really the father 
				of it all, and he taught a lot of what he knew to Drs. White, 
				Black and Blue. Mengele was the one who had the opportunity to 
				experiment on a lot of people in the concentration camp where he 
				did all kinds of weird and sadistic things. Cameron and the 
				others were both operational and experimental. If you look at 
				how the military and science works, when they discover something 
				that is workable, they will take that information and they will 
				make a new technology out of it, but they will continue 
				experimenting to improve on what they have done. So, at the same 
				time that Cameron was using electroshock to split the minds of 
				his victims, he was also looking for ways to refine what they 
				were doing. Eventually they came back, and after several decades 
				of looking at the results of the different programming - they 
				took the best programming scripts and the best methodologies and 
				upgraded their programming in general. The programming that is 
				being done today is far more sophisticated and far more refined 
				than what they were working on and operationally carrying out.
				
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				What special significance do twins have for Mengele? 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				If you are going to do a scientific experiment, you know you 
				have need of a control group (subject). How do you get a control 
				group for experimentation on humans? You need twins, and you 
				need thousands of them. Mengele experimented on three thousand 
				twins - that was one of the "benefits" of being within the Nazi 
				concentration camp system. As adults and children came through 
				Auschwitz, he had his subordinates indicate which of them were 
				identical twins. Most of the twins that he worked on died 
				because he was beyond sadistic. He was also developing methods 
				on how to bond people and he was learning how to artificially 
				bond people. I had mentioned earlier how Cisco had been teamed 
				with three other people who also escaped from the Illuminati. 
				They were all "twinned" together, they had artificial twinning 
				done to them. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				Is it similar to what you were describing before about the 
				"mirroring"? 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				The twinning incorporates all of the 12 sciences of mind control 
				- it is pretty sophisticated in itself. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				To your awareness, did the German Nazis use mind control 
				operatives within WWII? 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				Oh yes. They were using them since the early thirties. The 
				Germans and the British both were creating multiples for 
				intelligence work, assassination, and so forth. Prior to the 
				outbreak of WWII, the Nazis were foresighted, and brought 
				Germans to the USA who were trained multiple personalities. They 
				created a settlement of them in Upper New York State. That group 
				of people continues to live there as a group. These multiples 
				who were brought into our country had alters that were 
				programmed to assassinate by sticking picks into people (key 
				places in the body) and things like that. They created this 
				settlement with the idea that if Germany ever would manage to 
				defeat the USA, that these people would be in place to help 
				them. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				Is there any indication that the USA government had used mind 
				controlled operatives in WWII? 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				I have not found any indication that they used programmed 
				multiples, but remember that the leadership of our country was 
				in the hands of the Illuminati down through our history. To a 
				large degree our Presidents are related to each other. A lot of 
				people don’t realize how related they are. Ulysses S. Grant, the 
				18th President, was related to Franklin Deleno Roosevelt. The Deleno family is an ancient aristocratic family that originates 
				in Venice. Ulysses Grant was related via the Deleno family. His 
				greatgrandmother was Susannah Deleno. Grant was also from the 
				Collins family. In one of my videotapes, I go into the Grant 
				family and how they tie in with the Illuminati. One of the 
				reasons I do that is because Cisco is a descendant of the 
				Ulysses Grant bloodline, a descendant of the Collins bloodline. 
				This was her ticket into the Illuminati. 
				
				Many of our presidents tie back into these Illuminati 
				bloodlines, more than people realize. There were multiple 
				personalities in our government during WWII. But it wasn’t until 
				Mengele came over that the Illuminati had somebody with the 
				scientific sophistication to really get into scientifically 
				programs. The "benefit" we received from Mengele and Operation 
				Paperclip was advancing our government’s knowledge of how to 
				program innocent children. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				I would like to change the topic a little bit. How has popular 
				culture been used for programming, and why has it been used? 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				There are different levels that you lock a person into and 
				control. One is to control their milieu, their environment. It 
				is extremely difficult for me to talk about all of these issues. 
				They build a person’s frame of reference from the time they were 
				little. I ask people, "who built your frame of reference? who 
				built your world view?" From the time you were little, 
				establishment groups - churches, schools, and so forth - have 
				been steering your education so there isn’t a frame of reference 
				for people to hang the information I would like to give them. If 
				you don’t have a frame of reference to understand any of this 
				information, it is hard to break through of the control. By 
				controlling information and what society does, they steer 
				society as a whole. The schools are used, entertainment, 
				Hollywood, everything is used. The programming a person will 
				receive will use the items of everyday life to control them. For 
				instance, Cisco was taught to smoke as a little child by her 
				father who was her programmer, her master. With every puff, she 
				was to think about how much he loved her, and then when she 
				exhaled, she was also to think a programming thought. So the 
				very act of smoking reinforced the mind control. They will take 
				buildings in the area the mind control lives in and they will 
				use those to reinforce the programming. They will use many 
				common items from the slaves’ everyday lives to reinforce the 
				programming messages that have been layered. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				Maybe we can talk about one film that seems to come up in a lot 
				of survivors’ programming - that’s ’The Wizard of Oz’. How has 
				that been used? 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				It is one of the standard programming scripts that has been 
				used. A lot of people don’t realize that Frank Baum actually 
				wrote 14 Wizard of Oz books - The Tin Woodsman of Oz, The Land 
				of Oz, Glinda of Oz, Ozma of Oz. Actually the books were used 
				more in the programming than the movie. If one goes through and 
				looks at the books, and I extracted some of the programming 
				scripts and put them in the Volume 2 book so people could see 
				how Frank Baum’s books, whether they were specifically written 
				for mind control or not, apparently fit in beautifully with 
				creating mind control scripts. The movie then would reinforce 
				the scripts that were put in. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				Would these scripts be used mainly for manipulating the reality 
				of the identities being programmed? 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				Most of the personalities that are created within a mind 
				controlled slave, do not live in reality. They live in a 
				fictional world. They work off scripts. For instance if I was 
				going to have a particular personality pick up drugs, they may 
				hypnotically see the person handing them the bag of drugs as The 
				White Rabbit and they might see the bag as some treats or 
				something. They live in a totally fictional world and since 
				these personalities only hold the body at isolated points in 
				time, they don’t have any cohesive life in which to challenge 
				the hypnotic programming script they have been given. They live 
				their entire lives in trance. These scripts are very important 
				to use to control the personalities that live in their fictional 
				world. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				Can you give some other examples of popular culture that have 
				been used for programming? 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				Batman, Bewitched, Disney movies. One of the very important 
				Disney movies was "Fantasia" and in my recent book, "Deeper 
				Insights" I have eleven pages where I go through minute by 
				minute, scene by scene, in the movie "Fantasia" and show how 
				Fantasia was created and used to be a programming foundation. 
				Star Wars movies, My Fair Lady which was used in the finishing 
				schools for slaves, Stephen King horror movies are used, 
				Startrek, The Love Boat has been used for the mind control of 
				their cruise prostitutes, E.T. - alien programming of their 
				slaves, Alice in Wonderland. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				All of these are really prominent in our culture and I am 
				wondering what the effect is on someone who has been programmed 
				if they see these movies again on television or in video rental, 
				or in a movie theatre? 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				It just locks in the control and emphasizes the hopelessness. 
				For a mind controlled slave who is living in a whole culture 
				that is controlled by these people, why would their mind ever 
				think of trying to get free? Their spirits were broken when they 
				were children, and everywhere they look they see the control and 
				the programming. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				This isn’t to say that some of these tv programs or films have 
				been deliberately made with mind control in mind, but that they 
				have been used by the programmers? 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				Deliberate is more accurate. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				So some of these expressions of culture have been deliberately 
				created. Have you looked into the backgrounds of some of the 
				people involved in producing them? 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				Ducktail Cartoons which is put on by Disney contains deliberate 
				triggers for the children. Deliberate triggers in the 
				advertisements; deliberate messages and codes. In "Deeper 
				Insights" I spend about fifty pages going into Disney, who 
				Disney was, what they did behind the scenes, what the movies are 
				all about. Look at "Beauty and the Beast" you will see an 
				enchanted ____clock, or you will see the character Doorknob - 
				protrayed as a person. That’s used in the cartoon, "Alice in 
				Wonderland". Those particular sections will be seen by an alter 
				in a person’s system, and the mind will be made to believe that 
				they were a doorknob. These are specifically, creatively put 
				into the films for those reasons. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				Some of these alters that are created are not even animals or 
				people, they can be inanimate objects. 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				Only a few of the front alters of an alter system will realize 
				that they are human. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				You have gone into in the book that I have, "The Illuminati 
				Formula ..." quite a bit about Star Trek. What have you learned 
				about the technical manuals published about Star Trek? 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				I have observed programmed multiples - some that have been 
				untreated, and some that have been untreated - who are totally 
				obsessed with everything involved with Star Trek. A former 
				deprogramming assistant gave me information on the Star Trek 
				programming and I could sit and confirm it by my own 
				observations of multiples. Over the years a number of highly 
				technical manuals on Star Trek equipment and themes have been 
				published. When you look at these manuals - the best way of 
				explaining all the money and time that was spent to develop 
				these complex manuals is that they are serving a mind control 
				purpose. Knowing how the programming is put in, I know why they 
				were done a certain way. 
				
				Boeing Plant in Seattle has a lot of tunnels underneath it, and 
				some of those tunnels are used for programming. Someone who 
				worked at Boeing was telling me how workers would, on a normal 
				day it was standard for them to sneak off to go into the 
				underground tunnels and watch Star Trek movies. I thought that 
				was interesting. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				Can you describe the technical manuals and the level of 
				technical detail that they went into? 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				They have maps of the universe. Where a map of the Milky Way 
				could be used is when you are splintering the mind of a victim 
				and you are looking for some kind of a pattern to restructure 
				it, you would use something like a galaxy map to recreate their 
				mind. You have star clusters, planets. When you wanted to have a 
				whole group of alters, personalities that would only relate to 
				themselves, you could put them on one planet and the only way 
				alters could communicate from one "planet" to another would be 
				through some type of "beam me up" type of thing. When you were 
				being "beamed", you would actually be dissociated and going into 
				trance. 
				
				And you have different locomotion devices that are built into 
				the system which are actually methods for the mind going into 
				dissociation. When you are electroshocking someone, and a flash 
				of light is hitting them at the same time you are applying 
				electroshock, you can tell the person that they are travelling 
				through space, or who knows what, different scripts can be built 
				in. 
				
				The technical manuals will have section indexes and when they 
				structure the mind controlled slaves they build sections and 
				those sections are coded and you will find the technical manuals 
				have number codes, colour codes which is another aspect of the 
				mind control all the way through. I talked about the 13x13x13 
				grid earlier within Cisco’s system. If you want to add another 
				dimension to your cube, then you add colour coding for certain 
				alters. 
				
				Each of your alters typically will receive a colour code and 
				that ties back in to computers that are built within their 
				minds. These computers are built by taking dissociated parts of 
				the mind and making them into a computer - computers that 
				control each section - and then those computers are in turn 
				controlled by deeper computers. It’s very complex but you can 
				certainly see when you look at the technical manuals put 
				together for the Star Trek theme that they dovetail perfectly 
				with what the programming needs are. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				These things are purportedly just paraphernalia items for a very 
				limited market of hardcore Trekkies - the price tag seems to be 
				incongruent with the amount of work that has gone into making 
				them. 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				Exactly. That was my thought. My Dad was an engineer and I have 
				looked over a lot of drafting projects. I worked for the Federal 
				Highway Administration for a while so I know the type of 
				engineering work that would go into building a highway, and I am 
				just amazed at the technical detail, engineering, graphics and 
				everything that goes into these technical manuals for something 
				that is a "fiction", a movie ... we are not talking about 
				something that is real life. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				Since we are talking about movies, I would like to ask you what 
				has Hollywood’s involvement been in mind control slavery? 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				The Illuminati and the Mob have controlled Hollywood. Another 
				aspect of this is that a lot of your slaves are actors, eg. 
				Roseanne Barr, who I mentioned earlier; Madonna; Marilyn Monroe; 
				each of these women was a programmed multiple. You have a lot of 
				slaves who are acting for them. One of the benefits of having 
				programmed multiples is the way their minds have been 
				structured. Some of them are very good at memorizing scripts or 
				getting into fictional roles. As I mentioned earlier, some of 
				the movies, like "Fantasia" - Disneyland itself was a 
				programming centre. It was more than their just putting out 
				movies that were for programming, but they actually created a 
				lot of these movies with the codes. Another one I didn’t mention 
				is "I Dream of Jeannie" - which is the Delta alter "Jeannie" 
				programming with the trigger "your wish is my command." 
				
				Another aspect of Hollywood that comes in here - there are 
				fictional movies, at least they purport to be fictional movies, 
				which are actually showing, amazingly, top secret Illuminati 
				ceremonies and Illuminati history, methods. It’s really blown me 
				away to watch some of these things. "Hellraiser 3" shows 
				gatekeepers. Watch "Bell, Book and Candle" or "Curse of the 
				Voodoo". Not only do they show Illuminati ceremonies, but some 
				of these movies actually show the mind control. I would 
				recommend that the listeners, if they wanted to learn more, 
				watch the Charles Bronson movie, "Telethon", or you could watch 
				"The Manchurian Candidate" or "Videodrome", "Labyrinth." I go 
				into explaining how "Labyrinth" is a programming script in the 
				Volume 2 book. "Transfer 2", "Attack of the Robots", "Attack of 
				the Puppet People" ... we could go on and on. Jane Fonda’s "The 
				Point of No Return" - that connects in with the OTO. That’s one 
				of the occult fronts of the very high-up, powerful organizations 
				involved with the Illuminati. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				What do you think is the purpose of having mind control slaves 
				in the Hollywood industry in terms of the impact on the public? 
				What are they trying to accomplish with these films, and are 
				they manipulating these actors in some way to have some effect 
				on the public? 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				There is manipulation in many different ways. I guess one thing 
				I could say that builds upon your last question and also answers 
				your current question, is the late Anton Lavey, for instance, 
				who was the head of the Church of Satan. He was a mind control 
				programmer and he was very close with Hollywood. By using him in 
				Hollywood as an advisor to movies, and in other ways (he tied in 
				with some underground film-making too) it gave him legitimacy. 
				Another person who also connected in some with Hollywood, who 
				was also connected with Anton Lavey, was Michael Aquino who 
				connected in with military intelligence. He was another 
				programmer and he was in charge of another Satanic organization, 
				The 
	
				
				Temple of Set. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				Which is an offshoot of Anton Lavey’s Church of Satan ... 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				Aquino was one of Lavey’s henchmen until he formed his own 
				organization. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				And Michael Aquino has been implicated in the Presidio daycare 
				child abuse scandal as well ... 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				A very disgusting person like the rest of these programmers. 
				Another tie-in here with Hollywood is Kenneth Anger who was a 
				member of Lavey’s group, and he was a film-maker. He is also 
				someone who was infatuated with 
				
				Aleister Crowley. Kenneth Anger 
				danced with Shirley Temple when he was a child, and Shirley 
				Temple as you know ties in with Walt Disney, and with the mind 
				control too. I believe she was a victim. There is something they 
				do to the children, it’s called brainstem scarring and when they 
				scar the brainstem they create photographic memory. That’s a 
				whole other subject, but I believe that this child prodigy, 
				Shirley Temple, was also one of their mind control victims. That 
				was prior to WWII. She was, I believe, a multiple. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				I wonder if you could just explain briefly how you think that 
				works in terms of damaging the brainstem and how that would 
				affect these memory abilities ... 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				An analogy would be like when somebody does weightlifting - the 
				idea of lifting weights is that you are destroying the muscles 
				and the body overcompensates for the destruction and builds the 
				muscles bigger next time around, like callouses. You damage your 
				skin until your body overcompensates and creates callouses. When 
				your brainstem is electronically scarred, the body 
				overcompensates and rebuilds the brainstem in such a way that 
				you have a photographic memory. So then if you scar somebody’s 
				brainstem to start with, and then you traumatize them so the 
				mind splits into multiple personalities, each of those 
				personalities generally takes on the characteristics of its 
				predecessor and has a photographic memory. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				It seems that would be very useful in terms of some of the ways 
				operatives are utilized, eg. for espionage. Was that a common 
				technique used in the conditioning, scarring of the brainstem, 
				photographic memory? 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				It is now. During the 1930’s when they were creating multiples, 
				they knew that trauma itself helped mental abilities, so there 
				were a lot of just scientists, who weren’t part of the 
				Illuminati who were traumatizing their kids to improve their 
				thinking abilities. It’s really a warped way of thinking, but 
				there is some efficacy to the methodology. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				Just to jump back to the culture industries, and how they have 
				been involved, how has the music industry been involved in mind 
				control? 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				Good question. That takes us back to WWII when first the UK, 
				then Canada, then our country was totally mobilized for the war 
				effort, and they mobilized Hollywood for the war effort. The US 
				military hired all these entertainers for the USO shows - it was 
				placed under the Special Services Division of the Army. They 
				brought in people like Bob Hope who was working for MI-6. Bob 
				Hope is very skilled with mind control. You had earlier asked me 
				if the USA was using programmed multiples? The USA was using 
				mind control during WWII, but not the type of programmed 
				multiplicity that Mengele developed. But during WWII, they were 
				using the USO magicians to pass coded messages to the troops. To 
				say and do things for their intelligence work. What group of 
				people can move from one military unit to another without 
				causing suspicion of the enemy? Entertainers. They used them for 
				US and British intelligence. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				So they would be used to pass messages to people in the know ...
				
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				Right. Bob Hope was an intelligence operative for British 
				Intelligence. He was used in the USO a lot. The USO created at 
				least 200 bands. A lot of the bands we know of now Guy Lombardo, 
				Lawrence Welk, Sam Donahue - these were all created in the USO 
				program. When the USO program ceased at the end of WWII, you had 
				this whole music industry that was basically created by the 
				Intelligence organizations, and it was heavily salted with their 
				intelligence operatives. It was a natural thing for the CIA - 
				created out of the OSS - and the NSA to continue to use the 
				music industry as it had been used in WWII for intelligence 
				purposes. Our entire music industry here in the USA is actually 
				an intelligence front for the Illuminati. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				Hmm. I know you have written specifically about the country 
				music industry. I wonder if you could talk about that industry’s 
				involvement. 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				I am not trying to single out country and western music. Some 
				people might think Fritz has it in for country and western music 
				- no, I actually enjoy a lot of that music, so I don’t have 
				anything against that particular brand, or that particular 
				industry. I mean, the rock and roll music industry is also 
				heavily used and ties in with the mind control too. A lot of the 
				songs in country and western music are deliberately written for 
				programming, but the songs evoke thoughts of god, country - so 
				you have your front there. You have to understand how these 
				people work. They try to play upon things that we get knee-jerk 
				reactions to. If I sing a song about god, how can anybody accuse 
				me of being bad? If I sing patriotic songs, how can anyone 
				accuse me of not being a good person? I sing about god and 
				country ... 
				
				You look at the front they create, and then they do what they 
				want to behind that front. The whole C&W industry is just part 
				and parcel of the mind control, and of drug running. Because 
				these C&W singers travel from one city to another, they are the 
				perfect vehicles for moving drugs. They are a very important 
				part of the Illuminati drug running. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				In your book you have alleged a lot of the leading C&W figures 
				are involved in this activity? 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				Yeah, some of them are victims of the mind control; some are 
				abusers of the mind control; some of them are programmers. One 
				of the worst mind control programmers within the industry is 
				Jerry Lee Lewis. He has a very bad reputation. He is infamous 
				among victims of mind control for being an extremely sadistic 
				programmer. When slaves manage to escape, they are very often 
				sent to Jerry Lee Lewis and his cousin, a minister, and also 
				ties in with this as a programmed multiple. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				Do you feel that the use of popular culture and these 
				entertainment industries serves another purpose in terms of 
				preconditioning society as a whole, or manipulating social 
				beliefs? 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				Oh yeah, definitely. The whole long-range goal of this, and when 
				I say long-range, it’s not going to take them long to get us 
				there at the rate they are going - the end goal of all of this 
				is to eventually create an entire planet of mind controlled 
				slaves that can be controlled by one super computer. They are 
				manipulating our thoughts and our attitudes, and steering us, 
				herding us (they consider us animals - the Illuminati consider 
				themselves god, god men and us to be the animals) they are 
				herding us in the direction they want to us to go. So yeah, the 
				music is definitely playing a role in dehumanizing us, 
				conditioning us, as well as a lot of mind control triggers and 
				messages are passed via the singing. In the Volume 2 book and in 
				the "Deeper Insights" book, I spend quite a few pages going into 
				the codes and the triggers, and I spend several pages explaining 
				what the different songs that are played over the radio - how 
				they are used in triggering mind controlled slaves. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				Again, I guess it’s part of having a culture permeated with the 
				kind of triggers that just reinforces the programming for the 
				victims. 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				Right. And if they are going to have their programmed slaves go 
				to a ritual, there is one song, "A Heartache Tonight", which 
				will be played over some radio stations. And if I am a mind 
				controlled slave, and it’s Friday night, and I hear that song 
				over the radio, I may be programmed to switch alters and go to a 
				pre-arranged location where I am picked up or whatever, and 
				participate in a satanic sabbat. They are able to use the music 
				industry in a whole number of ways. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				To you knowledge, Fritz, what groups are involved currently in 
				using mind control slavery? 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				Currently, mind controlled slaves are used by intelligence 
				organizations; occult groups; military groups; big and small 
				religious groups. Many various criminals who are in each of 
				these groups network together and in fact, their own word to 
				describe themselves is "The Network". If we are a little bit 
				more specific about what groups - I was giving you the broad, 
				general categories. Examples within the US military are Delta 
				Forces, 
				
				First Earth Battalion, are mind controlled units. Then 
				you’ve got mind controlled slaves scattered throughout all of 
				the regular branches. Within your intelligence organizations 
				some of the big offenders are MI-6 and of course their P-4 
				section, and Naval Intelligence which is ONI. A lot of 
				government organizations like Bureau of Narcotics, FBI, NASA. 
				When we look at what kind of occult groups are using this 
				trauma-based total mind control you will see the KKK, Neo-Nazis, 
				OTO. You will see groups like the Freemasons and the Oddfellows. 
				Then you get more hardcore occult groups like the Church of 
				Satan, the Children of Lucifer, Society of the Dark Lily. 
				Religions? You’ve got your smaller religions like this group 
				that was so interested in 
				
				Hale Bopp to the extent they 
				committed suicide. Small groups like that. According to the 
				information I have, David Koresh and his leaders were mind 
				controlled slaves who were conducting group control methods over 
				their Branch Davidian group. You’ve got your small groups like 
				this clear up to your large groups like the Catholic Church, the 
				Mormon Church, and the Charismatic Movement. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				Some of the branches of the military you mentioned - the Delta 
				Forces and 
				
				the First Earth Battalion - are you saying that all 
				of the people involved in these forces are mind controlled? 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				Within Delta Forces, 100% of them are. Within the 
				
				First Earth 
				Battalion, from what I understand, that could also be 100% of 
				its units are under mind control. Within the Army - the Army has 
				special task groups that - for instance - I am sorry to say, but 
				unfortunately it’s true - the US Army has select squads of 
				assassins that travel even around the USA and eliminate people. 
				From my inside information on that, these squads are not 
				entirely made up of mind controlled slaves - they have a variety 
				of control methods over these types. I guess what I am saying 
				is, that although you may find a smattering of mind controlled 
				slaves used in various branches of the military, those first two 
				that I mentioned are the only ones that I know of that are 
				entirely made up of mind controlled robots. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				These military operatives - would they have been subjected to 
				the trauma-based conditioning from childhood? 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				Yes. That’s what I am talking about. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				How typically do people who end up in these forces get 
				introduced to the mind control? Through their families? 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				Well these are victims of mind control that would have been 
				placed under mind control in childhood. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				Typically would they be from military families? 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				They would be from a wide variety. If you have looked at the way 
				the military does things, there is a lot of what they call 
				"military brats" - the children of military men that then are 
				put into positions of responsibility. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				To your awareness, has the corporate world used mind control in 
				any way? 
				
				Fritz Springmeier: 
				
				Yes, the corporate world does use mind controlled slaves. 
				Several examples that pop immediately into my mind are ARCO - 
				some of your listeners may have read "Angels don’t play this HAARP" by 
				Begich and Manning. If they haven’t, I recommend the 
				book. You will read quite a bit about ARCO which did all kinds 
				of HAARP research. ARCO did a lot of research and the branch of 
				ARCO which is APPI held some of the patents. They also worked 
				with E Systems which held some of the patents for HAARP 
				research. ARCO is one of the worst offenders, at least in terms 
				of what I have discovered from victims of mind control that I 
				have been in contact with. They are one of the worst, so that 
				probably explains why they were given a highly sensitive 
				
				project 
				like HAARP. 
				
				Another company that was given sensitive work to do was 
				Gunderson. Here in Portland Gunderson Steel has been making a 
				large number of special order rail cars which have shackles and 
				cupolas for guards. It is a very sensitive secret project which 
				has been farmed out to 11 major railcar producers. Gunderson is 
				one of these. 
				
				And these railcars are to be used to transport civilians to all 
				these already-built concentration camps across America. 
				Gunderson is another one of these companies that uses mind 
				control slaves. I am speaking with firsthand knowledge about 
				that because I have spoken with some of the programmed multiples 
				that work at Gunderson. 
				
				Another corporation that comes to mind is a big, corporate 
				conglomerate - Disney, Capital Cities, ABC - the three of them 
				went together and made themselves a nice, big corporate 
				conglomerate. They produce porn and they do some other 
				activities with the programmed multiple slaves. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				Just getting back to ARCO, we are actually going to be 
				interviewing Nick Begitch in a future show and talking about the 
				HAARP project in particular. I understand there are mind control 
				elements to that project in particular. The information you 
				found is in addition to that - they have been using mind 
				controlled, trauma-based conditioned slaves as well? 
				
				Fritz Springmeier 
				
				Right. His book doesn’t talk about mind controlled slaves being 
				used by ARCO - his book is about this technology that they are 
				installing in Alaska. It is a Star Wars-type technology that 
				works in the atmosphere and manipulates things electronically - 
				electromagnetic radiation. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				Yeah. It’s a huge antenna array that shoots high frequency 
				energy into the ionosphere. 
				
				Fritz Springmeier 
				
				Besides communicating with satellites, it can actually change 
				the weather. It can also manipulate the way people think in a 
				geographical area that has been hit by its electromagnetic 
				radiation. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				One of the side effects apparently is extra low frequency energy 
				that is reflected back to earth which is the frequency that our 
				brain operates on. 
				
				What typically would these companies use mind controlled slaves 
				for? 
				
				Fritz Springmeier 
				
				Sensitive projects that have to be kept under wraps by the New 
				World Order. The production of railcars to haul civilians to 
				concentration camps. Our government has kept the concentration 
				camp project pretty low key. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				So these people would be used to work on these projects and the 
				company ensuring that they don’t talk about it outside. 
				
				You spoke of the Illuminati being an extension of mystery 
				religions and I wonder if you could tell our listeners what were 
				the mystery religions, and what was their role in history? 
				
				Fritz Springmeier 
				
				You have asked two questions. One of the people who is well 
				worth quoting is Manley P. Hall. He is both a Grand Master 
				Illuminati and a Grand Master in the Freemasons. In his book, 
				"The Secret Teachings of All Ages", he said that the mystery 
				religions were the channel through which the light to mankind 
				was disseminated. (p.29) The mystery religions claimed to the 
				ancient world that they had revelation knowledge that would help 
				enlighten and save people. They claimed that by joining them, 
				and then going through the secret rituals, that you would 
				elevate yourself. They claimed that you would become divine, or 
				that you would reunite with your divine self if you went through 
				the rituals and got to the highest, deepest levels of their 
				secrets. That’s what they were telling people on the outside. 
				There are a lot of different ways to look at a phenomenon and I 
				want to bring in a couple of other angles. First, Swinburne 
				Kleimer, a high ranking Freemason and Rosicrucian leader, said 
				that there was a secret body that ruled and controlled all the 
				various ancient mystery religions in the ancient world - Europe, 
				Egypt, Babylon, clear over to Indian. You can read this claim in 
				his book "Ancient Mystic Oriental Freemasonry" on p. 84-85. I 
				can agree with him. What he is referring to here - the one 
				secret body that will control all the various mystery religions 
				- was what we call today The Illuminati. The Illuminati is the 
				continuation of that secret controlling body. Freemasonry is the 
				outer symbology of the ancient mystery religions, but if you 
				want the hardcore rituals of the ancient mystery religions, 
				those are the ones that are performed by the Illuminati. 
				
				And what was their role in history? They played an exceptionally 
				role in history. If one thinks about the power that kings have, 
				who are kings dependent on? Kings must work through other people 
				and they are dependent on their advisors, and their financiers. 
				You can’t have a king going off and making a war unless he has 
				money, so he is depending on those financiers. The financiers 
				are dependent on trade and production of goods. The mystery 
				religions, or secret societies, had so much power because they 
				controlled the trade guilds with the trade secrets on how to 
				produce the different goods. For instance the art of making 
				armour, or the art of making a long bow, or the art of making a 
				venetian war ship, or getting closer to home - the roots of 
				Freemasonry go back to the masonic builders guild and the 
				architectural knowledge to design and build a cathedral was 
				controlled by trade guilds which were controlled by these 
				mystery religions, these secret societies. You could be the king 
				of a country, but you were still under the control of these 
				mystery religions and secret societies. The man who supposedly 
				converted the Roman Empire over to Christianity was the head of 
				the Mithra mystery religion. They have played an extremely 
				powerful and important part in history. They have controlled the 
				priesthood and the trade guilds. But also there are a couple of 
				ways they have played a continuous role in history in that they 
				have guided human endeavours because the Illuminati, the mystery 
				religions, have what they call "The Keepers of the Great Plans". 
				That’s not just my own opinion. Manley P. Hall, the Illuminati 
				kingpin, in at least one of his books, goes into how the mystery 
				religions of the great plan to bring in this great New World 
				Order. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				What was this great plan? 
				
				Fritz Springmeier 
				
				Part of it goes back to the idea of the Golden Age of the Millenium. That’s an important concept for me to talk about. I 
				will be stepping on a few people’s toes here. Your Christians 
				are really unaware of where their concept of the millenium came 
				from. They think that it comes from the bible, but if they go 
				back historically they will see that William Miller, who started 
				the Adventist movement and started talking about millenium, was 
				a high ranking Freemason. He predicted that Christ would return 
				in 1844. The question is, did Christ return in 1844? Most 
				people, because we have a limited perspective on things, would 
				say no, he didn’t. But there was a man called Nabob who appeared 
				in Persia, and he said I am Christ, and he started the Bahai 
				religion. He fulfilled William Miller’s prophecy. The Freemasons 
				were the ones who introduced the Bahai religion to America, and 
				they did it through the Chicago Masonic Temple around the turn 
				of the century. The Bahai religion is committed to a one world 
				government, a new world order, and a one world religion. There 
				was this Masonic Oriental Order of the Magi and they were the 
				hardcore group within the Chicago Masonic Temple who started the 
				Bahai religion in this country. These are the kinds of things 
				that I tried to expose so that people see how this all 
				interconnects. 
				
				A very brilliant man, James H. Billington, who was the librarian 
				of the Library of Congress, wrote a book, "Fire in the Minds of 
				Men" and the Illuminati didn’t realize what he was doing. He 
				kind of blindsided. He was a member of the Council of Foreign 
				Relations so he as one of them. They thought he was one of 
				theirs. This book goes through and it talks about where the word 
				"revolution" came from - it came from the occult societies. The 
				word "revolution" which we use today to mean "armed rebellion" 
				didn’t have that meaning in the beginning. The way it began to 
				be used to mean armed rebellion to overthrow the old order and 
				establish something new, was because occult societies, like the 
				Freemasons who had been behind all of the revolutions of modern 
				history from the American Revolution on - have all been created 
				by the Freemasons and the Illuminati. Billington goes back in 
				and traces how all the revolutions were started by this occult 
				elite. The term revolution came from the occult idea that we 
				were going to revolve ourselves back to the Golden Age. There is 
				this great quest for the Golden Age, this millenialism. That’s 
				what communism is about. If you look at the early founders of 
				communism - they were trying to revolve us back through 
				revolution to the Golden Age that had been lost. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				What was their idea of what a Golden Age consisted of? 
				
				Fritz Springmeier 
				
				Socialized communistic type society. This is why when you read 
				masonic prophets, like H.G. Wells who wrote a number of books on 
				how the New World Order could be brought about, the Fabian 
				Socialists, etc. who have all these detailed plans - it’s always 
				for a socialistic, communistic type utopia. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				But with a fascist leadership it seems ... 
				
				Fritz Springmeier 
				
				Yes. (laughs) On the surface it sounds really hunky-dory. It 
				sounds really great. But it ends up more like Animal Farm and 
				George Orwell. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				I would also like to talk about what the relation of 
				intelligence groups such as the CIA, the DIA and the 
				MI-6 is to 
				the Illuminati. 
				
				Fritz Springmeier 
				
				There’s a very close relationship. You will notice with MI-6, in 
				the first few decades of their existence (they came into 
				existence at the turn of the century), they hired only women who 
				came from elite Illuminati families. If you were a female 
				working with MI-6, you were referred to as Queenie, and they 
				really were Illuminati queens. We go back and look at who set up 
				these organizations, who runs these organizations. Look at the 
				CIA for instance. People that understand what the Council for 
				Foreign Relations is all about and how that’s an Illuminati 
				front will understand better what I am talking about. You look 
				at Dulles, McCone, Helms, Slesinger, Bush, Turner, Casey - you 
				just go down your list of directors of the CIA - and they were 
				members of the Council for Foreign Relations. Not only that, but 
				they were members of other organizations that are Illuminati 
				fronts. Turner was a Rhodes scholar which is an entry point for 
				Illuminati. The Astors helped found the Rhodes scholars. Casey 
				and McCone - both of whom were Knights of Malta. Look at the 
				membership of the Knights of Malta, 50% black nobility. I am 
				talking about black in the context of the black (guelph) 
				European aristocratic bloodlines - the black (.....s) were a 
				very powerful bloodline that have controlled Europe for many 
				centuries. General Walter Bedell Smith was head of the CIA - 
				from 1950 to 1953 - working in US intelligence - he was one of 
				the co-founders of the Bilderbergers. 
				
				Prince Bernhard 
				(Illuminati) was the Chairman of the original Bilderbergers. One 
				of the late Chairs was Peter Rupert (Lord Carrington) was Order 
				of St. John which is the Protestant version of the Knights of 
				Malta. He was a director of a number of the Rothschild 
				organizations like the Rio Tinto Zinc Corporation. He was a 
				member of the Order of the Garter, which is very significant; 
				and a member of the Order of Osiris. The 
				
				Order of the Garter is 
				one of the primary organizations which was given the 
				responsibility to be in charge of the plans to bring in the New 
				World Order by the Illuminati, and to give continuity from one 
				generation to another. The Order of the Garter is extremely 
				powerful. Your coat of arms etc. is all controlled by the Order 
				of the Garter which is set up in covens of 13, groups of 13. If 
				you have ever looked at heraldry you will know how important 
				this is. The Bilderbergers is also set up in groups of 13, the 
				inner committee is 13. 
				
				Wayne Morris: 
				
				Henry Kissinger is a prominent member of the Bilderbergers. What 
				is his involvement in that group, to your awareness? 
				
				Fritz Springmeier 
				
				I don’t know that he is a member himself, but he is a member of 
				MI-6, he has been a member of P2 Freemasonry, involved with a 
				lot of things. He is a big player for them to implement their 
				agenda. I do not know whether he’s an actual member within the 
				Illuminati or not, but he has sure been a big player. In fact 
				one day I listened to Henry Kissinger speaking and he said, 
				
					
					"We 
				will get a New World Order. We may not get it in our generation, 
				but if we do not get it in our generation, we will get it in the 
				next generation." 
				
				
				In other words they are just going to keep 
				trying. That’s what the Order of the Garter has been assigned to 
				do. When we look at these different intelligence groups, like 
				the KGB and the CIA, we think we are looking at two groups that 
				are fighting a covert war against each other. However that is 
				only what we are meant to see. 
There is a recent book by a 
				Colonel Corsell, "Day After 
				Roswell". His book is eye opening in many ways, in fact it may 
				be hard to get after a little while. There seems to be a 
				movement to suppress it. In his book he talks about how the CIA 
				and the KGB are essentially one organization, and this was back 
				in the 50’s. He was tailed by CIA agents even though he was a 
				Colonel in the US Army - he’s got the CIA spying on him, trying 
				to find out what he is doing. He has to keep secrets from the 
				CIA. I had an acquaintance whose father is high up in the CIA 
				and he said when he was a teenager, one day his father came by 
				and dropped a bombshell on him in that he couldn’t even 
				understand what his father was talking about. His father said 
				out of the blue that the Cold War was a hoax. This teenager who 
				had bought into the appearances the common people are supposed 
				to accept was really confused. He didn’t understand. He said it 
				took him years to understand what his father was secretly 
				referring to. 
We see these different groups and they appear to be different 
				teams. But it’s sort of like coming up to a football field and 
				seeing two teams playing each other - you can’t automatically 
				assume they are not from the same school. It may be a scrimmage 
				or an intervarsity game. You will see the hidden hand of the 
				Illuminati in the creation of both the CIA and the KGB. In MI-6 
				you will see Lord Victor Rothschild running things; Admiral Sir 
				Hugh Sinclair - the Sinclairs are one of these families. MI-5, 
				which is internal security for Britain - their first Director 
				General for many years was Major General Sir Vern Keele. He was 
				a Freemason, and a number of other Director Generals of MI-5 
				have also been Freemasons and also have been tied to these other 
				organizations. The Director of MI-5 during WWII was Knights of 
				Grace of St. John. You could go on and on showing the 
				overlapping connections. 
If you look at Allen Dulles who was the Director of the CIA from 
				1953-1961 you will see his role with Hitler prior to WWII, 
				working with the international financiers - the bankers of these 
				Illuminati kingpins. You will see his connections to the elite.
				
Wayne Morris: 
And certainly the information about the CIA facilitating the 
				flight of Nazi war criminals to North America - Dulles was 
				involved in that. 
Fritz Springmeier 
Dulles was the man the Illuminati used to inform Hitler that the 
				financiers would support him in his bid for power. He was the 
				guy who brought the good news to Hitler ... hey, you can go for 
				it, we will finance you. 
Wayne Morris: 
I would like to talk about another CIA director who was actually 
				recently in Toronto accepting an Honorary Degree at the 
				University of Toronto - George Bush. I wondered if you could 
				talk about his affiliation with Skull & Bones ... 
				Fritz Springmeier 
Skull & Bones is an entry point into the Illuminati. Researchers 
				have noticed the 
				
				Skull & Bones, but there are a lot of other 
				organizations which are entry points. Rhodes Scholars, a group 
				in Oxford, there are number of different fraternal 
				organizations. Skull & Bones is not the only one - but that’s 
				the one George Bush joined. There is also Scroll & Key, Rezilius, and some other fraternal organizations. One of the 
				things George Bush did in his initiation ceremony for Skull & 
				Bones was to lie in manure and recount all of his sexual 
				exploits. 
Wayne Morris: 
I understand that’s an initiation ritual for all members of 
				Skull & Bones. 
Fritz Springmeier 
Right. 
				
Wayne Morris: 
You mentioned at the top of the interview that 
				
				George Bush was 
				related to some royal family - is that the House of Windsor? 
				
Fritz Springmeier: 
He is a distant relative of Prince Charles and Queen Elizabeth. 
				It’s a distant relationship. 
Wayne Morris: 
				
In your opinion, what has George Bush’s role been in attempting 
				to implement a global government? 
Fritz Springmeier: 
				
He’s been a criminal, and he has provided leadership for 
				criminal activity. He’s been involved with creating wars, with 
				drug running, with pornography and mind control. 
Wayne Morris: 
				
Are you aware of any information that George Bush is also a 
				pedophile? 
Fritz Springmeier: 
Oh yeah. 
				
				Cathy O’Brien for instance, who I have visited with, 
				her daughter spent time with George Bush and other people that 
				are familiar with the mind control and what’s going on have also 
				said that the man was a pedophile. 
Wayne Morris: 
				
Do you think that people in groups trying to bring about global 
				control are planning a take-over attempt at a certain point in 
				time, or do you think they will continue this New World Order 
				more gradually as they have been doing through expanded economic 
				blocks and so forth? 
Fritz Springmeier: 
It’s a combination of gradual, spiced with some cataclysmic 
				events. From the vantage point of being a planner, and having 
				the actual plans and details, you would see that things are 
				being implemented on a continuous basis. For instance, I have 
				mentioned previously that the Panama Canal and Suez Canal were 
				planned by the Illuminati back around 1800 if not before. Those 
				were things they wanted to implement on the way to a New World 
				Order. 
When you see cataclysmic events occur, let’s say there is a 
				nuclear exchange or aliens all of a sudden arrive, they seem 
				cataclysmic and instantaneous to those of us who are the common 
				people. But the planning for these events has gone on for a long 
				time. So yes, it will be gradual, if you are looking at the 
				implementation of these plans - but the appearance of some of 
				these things will be rather cataclysmic. In order to bring in 
				the New World Order as they would like to implement it, they 
				want us to ask them to bring in what they want. So for instance 
				in WWII when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour, the Americans 
				wanted to give away their freedoms to make their government more 
				powerful. They will be implementing things that will cause us to 
				ask us to do what they want to do. 
Wayne Morris: 
				
What kinds of scenarios are possible? 
Fritz Springmeier: 
				
For instance in Australia - where this madman went in and he 
				gunned down a lot of innocent people - children and families - 
				boy - right after that they ramrodded through gun legislation 
				and approximately half a million weapons were turned in without 
				a fight by the Australians because of this horrendous massacre 
				that took place. The same things are going to happen in this 
				country and on this surface it’s going to appear like this is 
				just a madman who flipped out and he gunned down a lot of 
				people. But from "their" vantage-point, they have spent a lot of 
				years planning and programming. 
Wayne Morris: 
				
And one could argue that it has already started to happen in 
				terms of things like the Oklahoma City bombing and bringing in 
				the counter-terrorism bill immediately after. 
Fritz Springmeier: 
				
Yes. Exactly. I would say yes to both aspects. It will be both 
				gradual and it will have a cataclysmic impact. 
Wayne Morris: 
				
How, in your opinion, could mind control be used in one of these 
				scenarios to create cataclysmic events? 
Fritz Springmeier: 
				
I use the term "New World Order" but you could also use "World 
				Order" because the same people who are bringing in the new world 
				order have actually been controlling the world all along. It’s 
				really not "new" at all - it’s just going into a more intense 
				phase where the control is going to be more intense, and the 
				mind control is going to be more pervasive and powerful. These 
				people have been controlling things from behind the scenes for a 
				long time. We go back and look at the power the British Empire 
				had and the power that the French Empire had - and you ask 
				yourself, well who was running the British Empire and the French 
				Empire? And you see the same people, the same families. I had 
				mentioned earlier how many American presidents were related and 
				how we have really been controlled by these oligarchal families 
				here in the USA. 
Wayne Morris: 
How would mind control possibly be used in a take-over scenario?
				
Fritz Springmeier: 
One way that it could be used is if people look at the 
				Charles 
				Bronson movie, "Telethon", you will see the end result of this 
				mind control. A housewife is called, given a fairy-tale ditty, 
				and she goes out and blows up a military installation. There are 
				a lot of people with programming to do acts of sabotage and 
				assassination. 
There are a lot of things that have to be accomplished. The 
				weakest link in the chain is going to bust - and in order to 
				implement all of these things from behind the scenes - you have 
				to have mind controlled people salted in at all different levels 
				to ensure that nobody reveals the secrets, that people do the 
				job they are supposed to, that people forget the things they are 
				supposed to forget. For instance banking - in the last few years 
				a lot of banks have gone bankrupt. That has been very quietly 
				covered over by bank mergers. A bank goes belly-up - they will 
				bring in a bigger bank and swallow it up and call it a merger 
				instead of a bankruptcy. How do they keep these things secret? I 
				know some programmed multiples personally working in the banking 
				system, and I do not know the full extent of what these people 
				are used for, I can only speculate. They are definitely using 
				mind controlled slaves within the banking system to hide their 
				manipulations. 
Wayne Morris: 
Quite a number of victims of mind control have spoken about 
				end-times programming. What can you tell us about that? 
				Fritz Springmeier: 
The end-times programming refers to programming geared to 
				bringing in New World Order and the reign of the anti-christ. It 
				has a lot of colour programming - the list of people who are to 
				be dealt with includes a red list comprised of those who are 
				anti-new-world-order opposition leaders who are to be executed 
				about two weeks before martial law. The blue list are people who 
				are against what is being done, but they are going to attempt to 
				program them, arrest them to see if they can correct their 
				thinking. Probably a lot of them will be killed in the midst of 
				reprogramming. The final list, the yellow list, is people who 
				will be rounded up for re-education camps after martial law. 
				
In the programming there are yellow flags at half-mast; yellow 
				dog on run; blue fish at home; and I know this from work with 
				mind control victims. Colour codes are used because they will be 
				using a lot of mind control slaves, including foreign troops 
				(eg. Russians) to implement these things. It is easier to use 
				colour coding. Things will be implemented with activation codes 
				which also use colour codes, eg. blue ray, red ray, purple ray, 
				green ray. Those will go to team leaders. If the listeners are 
				familiar with Amway they understand uplines and downlines - a 
				team leader can have perhaps four people under him - he calls 
				them - each of them calls four people. Those will be 
				colour-coded. Each one of the eg. four will have a colour (blue 
				ray, red ray, purple ray, green ray). And then some of the sites 
				are colour coded. Internally within the minds of the slaves, 
				some of them have internal crystals -- these crystals are timed 
				-- they could also be rocks -- they are timed to explode or 
				release certain programming at a certain point in time. These 
				crystals will have colour codes as well. 
If the therapist begins getting into end-time programming, 
				that’s one of the things they are going to notice. They are also 
				going to notice mountain-tops are used quite a lot for meeting 
				place or significant places. A lot of international cooperation 
				is involved in their plans and programming. Common news events 
				are often-times triggers -- eg. Lady Diana dying -- Princess 
				Di’s death caused certain mind control slaves to trigger off 
				that news event. 
End times programming also involves (because of the ushering in 
				of the reign of the anti-christ) demonology involved -- the 
				Demon "Purson" involved with the programming. His job is the 
				Revelator of the anti-christ. He will know a victim’s system. 
				You will see "Apollo" -- Son of Apollo is the anti-christ -- so 
				Apollo is the father of the anti-christ. You will see Escolapius 
				(sp) - he is the Demon of healing. You see a lot of healing 
				going on in the Charismatic Movement -- some of the ministers in 
				this Movement are actually satanists and I know from eye 
				witnesses that in secret they carry out satanic rituals where 
				they attempt to gain the power of Escolapius which is a demonic 
				healing power. When they go into these churches they use mind 
				control and this demonic healing power to heal Christians and 
				then tell people "God healed you". They don’t state to them 
				which god ... 
Another aspect that is characteristic to the end-times 
				programming is the involvement of the aliens. A lot of alien 
				programming, plans with aliens, and a whole series of 
				programming categories related to catastrophes. I am now 
				speaking to therapists - when you get into the part of the 
				system that is involved with end-times catastrophes, you will 
				get into working with _____ alters. And another area involves a 
				lot of computer control of people. And I am still only in the 
				beginning of understanding all of this. There is an actual 
				computer at 666 Connecticut Avenue in Washington, DC which is 
				called the Janus 2 computer. When victims start spewing out 
				their programming they start talking about the Janus coding 
				which has something to do with tracking and reprogramming, and 
				ties in with computers. 
Then there is the Ambassador coding (sub-codes include setting 
				fires; suicide; doing an act of violence against somebody). 
				Emperor coding. Morse coding. 
Wayne Morris: 
				
What in a general sense would they be programmed to do. 
				
Fritz Springmeier: 
We are not talking about just running drugs or prostitution -- 
				we are talking about control of society as a whole. One of the 
				scarier options they have is to bring in a mock alien invasion. 
				They will have flying saucers with aliens arrive. Because they 
				control so many different aspects of society, even though a 
				number of people like myself would say "beware of this, beware 
				of that" we would be drowned out by this orchestra of people in 
				different sectors of society (congressmen, newsmen, religious 
				leaders) saying whatever the plan is for them to say. Of course 
				there will be controlled opposition. There will be a few people 
				saying, "I distrust these aliens, or this agenda, or what the 
				government is doing" but they will be controlled opposition who 
				will gather all the opposition to what they want to do and raise 
				the hopes of people who are against this hidden agenda but will 
				not actually carry through and stop it. 
Wayne Morris: 
				
Do you believe that the governments of the world have UFO 
				technology that they have been developing? This alien invasion 
				would be a staged invasion using their own military technology 
				... 
Fritz Springmeier: 
There is no question in my mind about it. Another agenda they 
				have is to destroy faith in national governments. That has been 
				divided into thousands of different projects. Jehovah’s 
				Witnesses who go door to door. If you look at their literature, 
				it works very hard at destroying faith in nationalism. But who 
				would suspect the Jehovah’s Witnesses? Their Watchtower Society 
				is actually an Illuminati front. In fact one of their members 
				accidentally stumbled on to a big clue to this - he noticed 
				there were thousands of hidden occult symbols in the Watchtower 
				artwork. There would be a picture of a waterfall in a Watchtower 
				magazine, but when you looked at it really closely you would 
				realize it was a skull. It’s like Currier & Ives used to have 
				these hidden pictures - look at a tree and see other pictures. 
				They have these occult messages hidden in the Watchtower 
				literature - like a goat leading a herd of sheep, things like 
				that. Or a thief running off with occult jewellery with an 
				all-seeing eye and things like this. 
They have a lot of hidden messages. Who would think of 
				Jehovah’s 
				Witnesses being used? They use J-W’s to access some of their 
				slaves. Who can go door-to-door without suspicion? I brought 
				Cisco out of the Illuminati. It doesn’t mean I am the only 
				person who ever helped her, but these J-W’s will come to the 
				door, and I will say, "No, don’t answer the door." Her natural 
				inclination would have been, "oh they are just Jehovah 
				Witnesses." Interestingly the same couple who came to our door, 
				to try to talk to Cisco, showed up the next day clear across 
				town at another victim’s doorstep - very strange. I know the 
				Jehovah Witnesses from the inside and how they map out their 
				territories and how they go door to door - and what happened was 
				not normal. You had to have a team of people who were trying to 
				access slaves that were getting free, and their cover was to be 
				Jehovah Witnesses. 
It sounds like I am getting a little bit off track, but what I 
				am trying to say is - it is in their objective to destroy faith 
				in the national government. How do you destroy a national 
				government? You create civil war, create distrust of that 
				government, bankrupt that government. There are all these 
				different projects to bring down the American government, and 
				bring down respect for our government - they play both ends 
				against the middle. 
Implementation of the end-times agendas involves a lot of 
				agendas and a lot of people scurrying around doing different 
				things -- until you see the whole picture and how it all fits 
				together, it just looks like a lot of chaos. 
Wayne Morris: 
				
I wanted to come back to your point about them creating a 
				chaotic situation, such as some of the scenarios you have been 
				talking about. In order for the public to then ask for the 
				military to step in, or for the United Nations to step in, and 
				basically ask for a state of martial law -- is that your take on 
				how they are going to do this? 
Fritz Springmeier: 
				
We will ask them for what they want to do. People have sat in on 
				Illuminati meetings where they gave their 20, 30, 40 year plans 
				-- the key word to all of those plans was that it would happen 
				"naturally" - as if it was naturally happening. In order to 
				implement that, you have a lot of mind controlled slaves out 
				there. Another example, they want to destroy the continuity of 
				religious beliefs in the USA. The USA was basically founded by a 
				Protestant majority, there were very few Catholics when the USA 
				was started. In other words, the people of this country had a 
				common agreement -- one outlook on morality. 
Fritz Springmeier: 
				
When people have a moral belief system, Buddhist or whatever, if 
				it’s a very strong belief system, it’s hard to change them. What 
				they are trying to do is fragment our belief system. They have 
				brought in a lot of foreign belief systems into the USA but you 
				also have all of these New Age gurus popping up and creating 
				their own little New Age groups. In the bigger picture, it’s to 
				destroy the fabric of a unified moral response, and a lot of 
				these New Age leaders (eg. Elizabeth Claire Prophet - Church 
				Universal and Triumphant) are mind controlled slaves. Jay Z. 
				Knight, that’s who she goes by - the entity she channels - she’s 
				a mind control slave. These are New Age leaders and they are 
				gathering flocks. One of the gals who became a friend of mine 
				who left the C.U.T. and became a Christian, in having worked 
				with her, I noticed some red flags that maybe she, as one of the 
				leaders of Elizabeth Claire Prophet’s group, was a mind control 
				victim, and she’s not the only evidence I have that not only are 
				the leaders under mind control who start the groups, but part of 
				their flocks are mind control victims who are being programmed 
				to join these cults. 
Imagine if you are a religious leader and you get secret help 
				from the establishment and you have people being programmed to 
				join your organization, how that gives you an edge over you or I 
				starting a religion. So that’s one reason why we have such a 
				chaotic religious atmosphere out there where all of these gurus 
				and religious leaders are starting all these small weird groups.
				
Wayne Morris: 
You talked about Dr. Ewen Cameron as being one of the mind 
				control programmers. I would like to know specifically what his 
				and McGill University’s contribution to the development of 
				trauma based mind control is, to your awareness. 
Fritz Springmeier: 
				
I don’t know that I have a great deal to share. I know that St. 
				Mary’s Hospital there in Montreal was used by these people for 
				programming. In the basement they had what was known as The 
				Zombie Room, and an isolation room and the Grid Room. From 
				various victims of mind control I know that various Catholic 
				Church institutions were used in Quebec. As far as Cameron’s 
				personal contribution, I know that he worked for years assisting 
				in the programming and research. The things that he researched 
				were classified, and I don’t have a good grasp of what he 
				discovered. I know that if we read "Journey Into Madness" by 
				Gordon Thomas, in a couple of places in his book he makes fun of 
				Dr. Cameron. He says that Cameron’s grants hadn’t produced any 
				tangible value to the CIA or that there was a Dr. Gottlieb who 
				was supposedly investigating the doctor and questioning whether 
				Cameron had done anything to help the agents. I consider those 
				kinds of statements the typical kind of CIA disinformation that 
				is put out. They typically say "we did research but we didn’t 
				find anything of value." I have a hard time believing that Dr. 
				Cameron who was on the leading edge of mind control and who was 
				in touch with the top mind control programmers of his day and 
				learning techniques from them - that the man was of no value to 
				the CIA. I am not trying to put down Gordon Thomas’ book because 
				I would recommend it to people, but this is the type of 
				disinformation that spews forth from so many different sources. 
				Why was he head of the prestigious American Psychiatric 
				Association, and the World Psychiatric Association? Why was he 
				put in charge of so many very powerful organizations by the 
				establishment if he was so worthless to their agenda? 
				Wayne Morris: 
Just in a general sense, what were the types of institutions 
				that were involved in the development of mind control across 
				North America? 
Fritz Springmeier: 
Good question. I can quote them. 
				Admiral Stansfield Turner, on 
				August 3, 1977, told a Senate Investigating Committee that in 
				the USA, prisons, pharmaceutical companies, hospitals, 44 
				medical colleges, American universities and corporations were 
				helping the CIA carry out the mind control experiments. I 
				believe that using the word "experiments" is a little bit of 
				disinformation. This was operational programming. They were 
				taking the people who were coming out of these mind control 
				experiments and using them. They were far more than just 
				experiments. But those were the kind of institutions that were 
				assisting in the programming. 
Wayne Morris: 
				
Can you make a statement about the role of psychiatry in the 
				development of mind control? 
Fritz Springmeier: 
				
They have been very important to develop the mind control from 
				being more what we would call training to being placed on a very 
				scientific basis. There has been extensive research into the 
				mind by psychiatrists. That research has been invaluable for 
				developing the mind control technologies. Behavior modification 
				(Skinner, Pavlov, etc) findings were directly implemented in 
				teaching various alters to do certain things. If you read our 
				Volume 2 book and the Deeper Insights book, I go into how each 
				of the different alters are created (ie. Gatekeepers). At some 
				point a Gatekeeper alter will be taken to a door and then using 
				behavior modification techniques, severely torturing the alter, 
				they are taught not to step beyond the door, but hold their 
				place at that door. The research that shows that this type of 
				training would be effective came from behavior modification and 
				psychiatrists. 
Wayne Morris: 
Do you think that some psychiatrists may have been unwitting in 
				helping develop this technology? 
Fritz Springmeier: 
				
There are several different levels of participation. People who 
				are just plain evil; people who are coerced, blackmailed, mind 
				control victims themselves; then a level of people below that 
				who are unwitting dupes of the system. My father was never part 
				of the system in the sense of he never joined any occult 
				societies, he is not in favour of a New World Order, 
				philosophically he’s not aligned with them. He’s just somebody 
				who believes in science and he believes science can help the 
				world. He wanted to help the world, make a positive difference. 
				The Illuminati deflect what these researchers want for good and 
				use it for evil purposes. I have a hard time with one scientist 
				I was talking with earlier this year. He developed biological 
				weapons for the USA (viruses, anthrax, etc.). He said knowledge 
				is neutral, it is neither good nor bad. It’s how it’s used. I am 
				thinking in my head, "are you that stupid, that you don’t 
				realize the people you are working for and who are going to use 
				this stuff are going to use it for evil? ..." A lot of these 
				scientists are so focused on the tiny little details of what 
				they are trying to research, and ego plays a part in this. They 
				want to discover something - their ego, pride, concentration in 
				the research doesn’t allow them to step back and say "what is 
				this going to be used for?" 
Wayne Morris: 
				
The information that we have been talking about has been quite 
				depressing, and I think a lot of people are going to be affected 
				by it. What message of hope do you have for people after 
				learning about all of this? 
Fritz Springmeier: 
				
There’s two sides to a coin, and we have been talking about the 
				negative side of the coin. The positive side is that a lot of 
				the technologies that have been developed could actually be used 
				for the advancement of mankind, to benefit mankind. Another 
				positive is that in spite of the forces that are trying to 
				destroy humanity, there are a lot of positive forces. There are 
				quite a number of independent researchers, and they haven’t 
				gotten much media attention except ridicule - people have been 
				researching free energy, and they have made a lot of 
				advancements - so the common person would not be dependent upon 
				the establishment for any of its energy. Another area of 
				research is alternative medicine, amazing discoveries that 
				really liberate people from establishment medicine. You have the 
				internet and photocopy machines which have given the common 
				person the ability to transmit and gather a lot of information 
				without being part of the establishment. You have home 
				schooling. There are developments that are taking place that do 
				not rely on the establishment monopolies. These monopolies are 
				fragile and they can be broken. 
Another positive is that in spite of the monumental power they 
				have, people like myself have been able to slip through their 
				control cracks and have been able to free people from the 
				deepest depths of the organizations. I have been able to get out 
				so much information exposing their methods and their agenda. I 
				am saying this to show these people are not invincible. 
				Wayne Morris: 
I would like to thank you very much for joining us on this radio 
				series. It’s been absolutely fascinating talking to you, and I 
				would like to thank you for bringing this information out. 
				
Fritz Springmeier: 
I very much appreciate this chance, and I want to congratulate 
				your courage and your love for the truth in bringing this to the 
				Canadian and the American people.