I would like to talk about, and you have mentioned the name,
Josef Mengele. What role did Josef Mengele play in developing
He is like the father of modern programming. Prior to Josef Mengele, the Illuminati had created MPD, but the training of
those personalities had been non-scientific. Mengele worked a
lot with twins, understanding trauma and how to use trauma. If
somebody is about to die and they are rescued by their
programmer, they trauma-bond with that programmer. He learned
how to trauma-bond his victims to him. A lot of victims of mind
control in Israel and other parts of the world still refer to
him as "Papa", they love him. And if the programmer knows what
heís doing, he can totally trauma-bond that victim to him to
where they love the programmer.
Itís like the Stockholm Syndrome ...
He was taking programming into the world of science. In January
1945, when it was very clear that the Nazis were going to lose,
the Illuminati smuggled him out into the West where he continued
doing programming. I have worked with a number of his mind
control victims. One of his victims, a lady here in this area,
was actually in a concentration camp with Mengele; as a child
was experimented on and watched those horrors and had mind
control done in the concentration camps. And then she was
smuggled via the Ratline actually through your country, Canada,
came through the Catholic Church collaborators, brought her
through Quebec and then to Portland. And Josef Mengele continued
his mind control here in the States.
Was Mengele involved in mind control experiments previous to
I donít believe so. He was in the Illuminati. His family is
Illuminati, but I donít have any knowledge of him doing it prior
to the War. Of course I donít know the whole story there. But
there was some reason as to why he was chosen for the position
that he received. There may be more to the story than I know.
It appears that a lot of experimentation was done on the victims
of the Holocaust. You have mentioned trauma experiments. What
other kinds of experiments were done as they relate to mind
One of the things that Mengele was doing, and his friend Ewen
Cameron continued this, was experimentation on eye pigmentation.
One might say what does this have to do with mind control? Well,
like I said earlier, this type of mind control is a total
control - the mind, body and spirit of the victim is totally
controlled. It is far more extensive than people would imagine.
This type of mind control regulates the heartbeat of the victim,
and a lot of other things. Thatís why the suicide programming
can be so powerful. He started this pigmentation experimentation
which Ewen Cameron ... by the way, Josef Mengele, when he came
to the USA was known by the programming name, Dr. Green and Ewen
Cameron was known as Dr. White within the Illuminati circles.
Cisco Wheeler (whom I brought out of the Illuminati) - her
father was known as Dr. Black.
You are saying that Cameron and Mengele were associates and
Yeah. Cisco would occasionally see these men (Drs. Green, and
White and there was a Dr. Blue) meet at her fatherís house out
here on the West Coast. They would come together and discuss
their programmings, methodologies, networking, talking with each
other, etc. They were Program Masters within the Illuminati.
Mengele spent a lot of time travelling world-wide, not just here
in the Northwest. Cameron tended to work on the East coast and
as you are familiar, the Rockefeller Foundation gave him $40,000
back in 1943 to create the Allen Memorial Institute. Even before
Mengele came to this country, Cameron was already part of their
Did Ewen Cameron have a particular role within the development
of mind control technology? I understood he specialized in
electroshock and went around the country teaching other
psychiatrists on methods of electroshock? Was that his role, or
was it broader?
They were all working on how to refine the thing - these were
your top of the line programmers. Mengele was really the father
of it all, and he taught a lot of what he knew to Drs. White,
Black and Blue. Mengele was the one who had the opportunity to
experiment on a lot of people in the concentration camp where he
did all kinds of weird and sadistic things. Cameron and the
others were both operational and experimental. If you look at
how the military and science works, when they discover something
that is workable, they will take that information and they will
make a new technology out of it, but they will continue
experimenting to improve on what they have done. So, at the same
time that Cameron was using electroshock to split the minds of
his victims, he was also looking for ways to refine what they
were doing. Eventually they came back, and after several decades
of looking at the results of the different programming - they
took the best programming scripts and the best methodologies and
upgraded their programming in general. The programming that is
being done today is far more sophisticated and far more refined
than what they were working on and operationally carrying out.
What special significance do twins have for Mengele?
If you are going to do a scientific experiment, you know you
have need of a control group (subject). How do you get a control
group for experimentation on humans? You need twins, and you
need thousands of them. Mengele experimented on three thousand
twins - that was one of the "benefits" of being within the Nazi
concentration camp system. As adults and children came through
Auschwitz, he had his subordinates indicate which of them were
identical twins. Most of the twins that he worked on died
because he was beyond sadistic. He was also developing methods
on how to bond people and he was learning how to artificially
bond people. I had mentioned earlier how Cisco had been teamed
with three other people who also escaped from the Illuminati.
They were all "twinned" together, they had artificial twinning
done to them.
Is it similar to what you were describing before about the
The twinning incorporates all of the 12 sciences of mind control
- it is pretty sophisticated in itself.
To your awareness, did the German Nazis use mind control
operatives within WWII?
Oh yes. They were using them since the early thirties. The
Germans and the British both were creating multiples for
intelligence work, assassination, and so forth. Prior to the
outbreak of WWII, the Nazis were foresighted, and brought
Germans to the USA who were trained multiple personalities. They
created a settlement of them in Upper New York State. That group
of people continues to live there as a group. These multiples
who were brought into our country had alters that were
programmed to assassinate by sticking picks into people (key
places in the body) and things like that. They created this
settlement with the idea that if Germany ever would manage to
defeat the USA, that these people would be in place to help
Is there any indication that the USA government had used mind
controlled operatives in WWII?
I have not found any indication that they used programmed
multiples, but remember that the leadership of our country was
in the hands of the Illuminati down through our history. To a
large degree our Presidents are related to each other. A lot of
people donít realize how related they are. Ulysses S. Grant, the
18th President, was related to Franklin Deleno Roosevelt. The Deleno family is an ancient aristocratic family that originates
in Venice. Ulysses Grant was related via the Deleno family. His
greatgrandmother was Susannah Deleno. Grant was also from the
Collins family. In one of my videotapes, I go into the Grant
family and how they tie in with the Illuminati. One of the
reasons I do that is because Cisco is a descendant of the
Ulysses Grant bloodline, a descendant of the Collins bloodline.
This was her ticket into the Illuminati.
Many of our presidents tie back into these Illuminati
bloodlines, more than people realize. There were multiple
personalities in our government during WWII. But it wasnít until
Mengele came over that the Illuminati had somebody with the
scientific sophistication to really get into scientifically
programs. The "benefit" we received from Mengele and Operation
Paperclip was advancing our governmentís knowledge of how to
program innocent children.
I would like to change the topic a little bit. How has popular
culture been used for programming, and why has it been used?
There are different levels that you lock a person into and
control. One is to control their milieu, their environment. It
is extremely difficult for me to talk about all of these issues.
They build a personís frame of reference from the time they were
little. I ask people, "who built your frame of reference? who
built your world view?" From the time you were little,
establishment groups - churches, schools, and so forth - have
been steering your education so there isnít a frame of reference
for people to hang the information I would like to give them. If
you donít have a frame of reference to understand any of this
information, it is hard to break through of the control. By
controlling information and what society does, they steer
society as a whole. The schools are used, entertainment,
Hollywood, everything is used. The programming a person will
receive will use the items of everyday life to control them. For
instance, Cisco was taught to smoke as a little child by her
father who was her programmer, her master. With every puff, she
was to think about how much he loved her, and then when she
exhaled, she was also to think a programming thought. So the
very act of smoking reinforced the mind control. They will take
buildings in the area the mind control lives in and they will
use those to reinforce the programming. They will use many
common items from the slavesí everyday lives to reinforce the
programming messages that have been layered.
Maybe we can talk about one film that seems to come up in a lot
of survivorsí programming - thatís íThe Wizard of Ozí. How has
that been used?
It is one of the standard programming scripts that has been
used. A lot of people donít realize that Frank Baum actually
wrote 14 Wizard of Oz books - The Tin Woodsman of Oz, The Land
of Oz, Glinda of Oz, Ozma of Oz. Actually the books were used
more in the programming than the movie. If one goes through and
looks at the books, and I extracted some of the programming
scripts and put them in the Volume 2 book so people could see
how Frank Baumís books, whether they were specifically written
for mind control or not, apparently fit in beautifully with
creating mind control scripts. The movie then would reinforce
the scripts that were put in.
Would these scripts be used mainly for manipulating the reality
of the identities being programmed?
Most of the personalities that are created within a mind
controlled slave, do not live in reality. They live in a
fictional world. They work off scripts. For instance if I was
going to have a particular personality pick up drugs, they may
hypnotically see the person handing them the bag of drugs as The
White Rabbit and they might see the bag as some treats or
something. They live in a totally fictional world and since
these personalities only hold the body at isolated points in
time, they donít have any cohesive life in which to challenge
the hypnotic programming script they have been given. They live
their entire lives in trance. These scripts are very important
to use to control the personalities that live in their fictional
Can you give some other examples of popular culture that have
been used for programming?
Batman, Bewitched, Disney movies. One of the very important
Disney movies was "Fantasia" and in my recent book, "Deeper
Insights" I have eleven pages where I go through minute by
minute, scene by scene, in the movie "Fantasia" and show how
Fantasia was created and used to be a programming foundation.
Star Wars movies, My Fair Lady which was used in the finishing
schools for slaves, Stephen King horror movies are used,
Startrek, The Love Boat has been used for the mind control of
their cruise prostitutes, E.T. - alien programming of their
slaves, Alice in Wonderland.
All of these are really prominent in our culture and I am
wondering what the effect is on someone who has been programmed
if they see these movies again on television or in video rental,
or in a movie theatre?
It just locks in the control and emphasizes the hopelessness.
For a mind controlled slave who is living in a whole culture
that is controlled by these people, why would their mind ever
think of trying to get free? Their spirits were broken when they
were children, and everywhere they look they see the control and
This isnít to say that some of these tv programs or films have
been deliberately made with mind control in mind, but that they
have been used by the programmers?
Deliberate is more accurate.
So some of these expressions of culture have been deliberately
created. Have you looked into the backgrounds of some of the
people involved in producing them?
Ducktail Cartoons which is put on by Disney contains deliberate
triggers for the children. Deliberate triggers in the
advertisements; deliberate messages and codes. In "Deeper
Insights" I spend about fifty pages going into Disney, who
Disney was, what they did behind the scenes, what the movies are
all about. Look at "Beauty and the Beast" you will see an
enchanted ____clock, or you will see the character Doorknob -
protrayed as a person. Thatís used in the cartoon, "Alice in
Wonderland". Those particular sections will be seen by an alter
in a personís system, and the mind will be made to believe that
they were a doorknob. These are specifically, creatively put
into the films for those reasons.
Some of these alters that are created are not even animals or
people, they can be inanimate objects.
Only a few of the front alters of an alter system will realize
that they are human.
You have gone into in the book that I have, "The Illuminati
Formula ..." quite a bit about Star Trek. What have you learned
about the technical manuals published about Star Trek?
I have observed programmed multiples - some that have been
untreated, and some that have been untreated - who are totally
obsessed with everything involved with Star Trek. A former
deprogramming assistant gave me information on the Star Trek
programming and I could sit and confirm it by my own
observations of multiples. Over the years a number of highly
technical manuals on Star Trek equipment and themes have been
published. When you look at these manuals - the best way of
explaining all the money and time that was spent to develop
these complex manuals is that they are serving a mind control
purpose. Knowing how the programming is put in, I know why they
were done a certain way.
Boeing Plant in Seattle has a lot of tunnels underneath it, and
some of those tunnels are used for programming. Someone who
worked at Boeing was telling me how workers would, on a normal
day it was standard for them to sneak off to go into the
underground tunnels and watch Star Trek movies. I thought that
Can you describe the technical manuals and the level of
technical detail that they went into?
They have maps of the universe. Where a map of the Milky Way
could be used is when you are splintering the mind of a victim
and you are looking for some kind of a pattern to restructure
it, you would use something like a galaxy map to recreate their
mind. You have star clusters, planets. When you wanted to have a
whole group of alters, personalities that would only relate to
themselves, you could put them on one planet and the only way
alters could communicate from one "planet" to another would be
through some type of "beam me up" type of thing. When you were
being "beamed", you would actually be dissociated and going into
And you have different locomotion devices that are built into
the system which are actually methods for the mind going into
dissociation. When you are electroshocking someone, and a flash
of light is hitting them at the same time you are applying
electroshock, you can tell the person that they are travelling
through space, or who knows what, different scripts can be built
The technical manuals will have section indexes and when they
structure the mind controlled slaves they build sections and
those sections are coded and you will find the technical manuals
have number codes, colour codes which is another aspect of the
mind control all the way through. I talked about the 13x13x13
grid earlier within Ciscoís system. If you want to add another
dimension to your cube, then you add colour coding for certain
Each of your alters typically will receive a colour code and
that ties back in to computers that are built within their
minds. These computers are built by taking dissociated parts of
the mind and making them into a computer - computers that
control each section - and then those computers are in turn
controlled by deeper computers. Itís very complex but you can
certainly see when you look at the technical manuals put
together for the Star Trek theme that they dovetail perfectly
with what the programming needs are.
These things are purportedly just paraphernalia items for a very
limited market of hardcore Trekkies - the price tag seems to be
incongruent with the amount of work that has gone into making
Exactly. That was my thought. My Dad was an engineer and I have
looked over a lot of drafting projects. I worked for the Federal
Highway Administration for a while so I know the type of
engineering work that would go into building a highway, and I am
just amazed at the technical detail, engineering, graphics and
everything that goes into these technical manuals for something
that is a "fiction", a movie ... we are not talking about
something that is real life.
Since we are talking about movies, I would like to ask you what
has Hollywoodís involvement been in mind control slavery?
The Illuminati and the Mob have controlled Hollywood. Another
aspect of this is that a lot of your slaves are actors, eg.
Roseanne Barr, who I mentioned earlier; Madonna; Marilyn Monroe;
each of these women was a programmed multiple. You have a lot of
slaves who are acting for them. One of the benefits of having
programmed multiples is the way their minds have been
structured. Some of them are very good at memorizing scripts or
getting into fictional roles. As I mentioned earlier, some of
the movies, like "Fantasia" - Disneyland itself was a
programming centre. It was more than their just putting out
movies that were for programming, but they actually created a
lot of these movies with the codes. Another one I didnít mention
is "I Dream of Jeannie" - which is the Delta alter "Jeannie"
programming with the trigger "your wish is my command."
Another aspect of Hollywood that comes in here - there are
fictional movies, at least they purport to be fictional movies,
which are actually showing, amazingly, top secret Illuminati
ceremonies and Illuminati history, methods. Itís really blown me
away to watch some of these things. "Hellraiser 3" shows
gatekeepers. Watch "Bell, Book and Candle" or "Curse of the
Voodoo". Not only do they show Illuminati ceremonies, but some
of these movies actually show the mind control. I would
recommend that the listeners, if they wanted to learn more,
watch the Charles Bronson movie, "Telethon", or you could watch
"The Manchurian Candidate" or "Videodrome", "Labyrinth." I go
into explaining how "Labyrinth" is a programming script in the
Volume 2 book. "Transfer 2", "Attack of the Robots", "Attack of
the Puppet People" ... we could go on and on. Jane Fondaís "The
Point of No Return" - that connects in with the OTO. Thatís one
of the occult fronts of the very high-up, powerful organizations
involved with the Illuminati.
What do you think is the purpose of having mind control slaves
in the Hollywood industry in terms of the impact on the public?
What are they trying to accomplish with these films, and are
they manipulating these actors in some way to have some effect
on the public?
There is manipulation in many different ways. I guess one thing
I could say that builds upon your last question and also answers
your current question, is the late Anton Lavey, for instance,
who was the head of the Church of Satan. He was a mind control
programmer and he was very close with Hollywood. By using him in
Hollywood as an advisor to movies, and in other ways (he tied in
with some underground film-making too) it gave him legitimacy.
Another person who also connected in some with Hollywood, who
was also connected with Anton Lavey, was Michael Aquino who
connected in with military intelligence. He was another
programmer and he was in charge of another Satanic organization,
Temple of Set.
Which is an offshoot of Anton Laveyís Church of Satan ...
Aquino was one of Laveyís henchmen until he formed his own
And Michael Aquino has been implicated in the Presidio daycare
child abuse scandal as well ...
A very disgusting person like the rest of these programmers.
Another tie-in here with Hollywood is Kenneth Anger who was a
member of Laveyís group, and he was a film-maker. He is also
someone who was infatuated with
Aleister Crowley. Kenneth Anger
danced with Shirley Temple when he was a child, and Shirley
Temple as you know ties in with Walt Disney, and with the mind
control too. I believe she was a victim. There is something they
do to the children, itís called brainstem scarring and when they
scar the brainstem they create photographic memory. Thatís a
whole other subject, but I believe that this child prodigy,
Shirley Temple, was also one of their mind control victims. That
was prior to WWII. She was, I believe, a multiple.
I wonder if you could just explain briefly how you think that
works in terms of damaging the brainstem and how that would
affect these memory abilities ...
An analogy would be like when somebody does weightlifting - the
idea of lifting weights is that you are destroying the muscles
and the body overcompensates for the destruction and builds the
muscles bigger next time around, like callouses. You damage your
skin until your body overcompensates and creates callouses. When
your brainstem is electronically scarred, the body
overcompensates and rebuilds the brainstem in such a way that
you have a photographic memory. So then if you scar somebodyís
brainstem to start with, and then you traumatize them so the
mind splits into multiple personalities, each of those
personalities generally takes on the characteristics of its
predecessor and has a photographic memory.
It seems that would be very useful in terms of some of the ways
operatives are utilized, eg. for espionage. Was that a common
technique used in the conditioning, scarring of the brainstem,
It is now. During the 1930ís when they were creating multiples,
they knew that trauma itself helped mental abilities, so there
were a lot of just scientists, who werenít part of the
Illuminati who were traumatizing their kids to improve their
thinking abilities. Itís really a warped way of thinking, but
there is some efficacy to the methodology.
Just to jump back to the culture industries, and how they have
been involved, how has the music industry been involved in mind
Good question. That takes us back to WWII when first the UK,
then Canada, then our country was totally mobilized for the war
effort, and they mobilized Hollywood for the war effort. The US
military hired all these entertainers for the USO shows - it was
placed under the Special Services Division of the Army. They
brought in people like Bob Hope who was working for MI-6. Bob
Hope is very skilled with mind control. You had earlier asked me
if the USA was using programmed multiples? The USA was using
mind control during WWII, but not the type of programmed
multiplicity that Mengele developed. But during WWII, they were
using the USO magicians to pass coded messages to the troops. To
say and do things for their intelligence work. What group of
people can move from one military unit to another without
causing suspicion of the enemy? Entertainers. They used them for
US and British intelligence.
So they would be used to pass messages to people in the know ...
Right. Bob Hope was an intelligence operative for British
Intelligence. He was used in the USO a lot. The USO created at
least 200 bands. A lot of the bands we know of now Guy Lombardo,
Lawrence Welk, Sam Donahue - these were all created in the USO
program. When the USO program ceased at the end of WWII, you had
this whole music industry that was basically created by the
Intelligence organizations, and it was heavily salted with their
intelligence operatives. It was a natural thing for the CIA -
created out of the OSS - and the NSA to continue to use the
music industry as it had been used in WWII for intelligence
purposes. Our entire music industry here in the USA is actually
an intelligence front for the Illuminati.
Hmm. I know you have written specifically about the country
music industry. I wonder if you could talk about that industryís
I am not trying to single out country and western music. Some
people might think Fritz has it in for country and western music
- no, I actually enjoy a lot of that music, so I donít have
anything against that particular brand, or that particular
industry. I mean, the rock and roll music industry is also
heavily used and ties in with the mind control too. A lot of the
songs in country and western music are deliberately written for
programming, but the songs evoke thoughts of god, country - so
you have your front there. You have to understand how these
people work. They try to play upon things that we get knee-jerk
reactions to. If I sing a song about god, how can anybody accuse
me of being bad? If I sing patriotic songs, how can anyone
accuse me of not being a good person? I sing about god and
You look at the front they create, and then they do what they
want to behind that front. The whole C&W industry is just part
and parcel of the mind control, and of drug running. Because
these C&W singers travel from one city to another, they are the
perfect vehicles for moving drugs. They are a very important
part of the Illuminati drug running.
In your book you have alleged a lot of the leading C&W figures
are involved in this activity?
Yeah, some of them are victims of the mind control; some are
abusers of the mind control; some of them are programmers. One
of the worst mind control programmers within the industry is
Jerry Lee Lewis. He has a very bad reputation. He is infamous
among victims of mind control for being an extremely sadistic
programmer. When slaves manage to escape, they are very often
sent to Jerry Lee Lewis and his cousin, a minister, and also
ties in with this as a programmed multiple.
Do you feel that the use of popular culture and these
entertainment industries serves another purpose in terms of
preconditioning society as a whole, or manipulating social
Oh yeah, definitely. The whole long-range goal of this, and when
I say long-range, itís not going to take them long to get us
there at the rate they are going - the end goal of all of this
is to eventually create an entire planet of mind controlled
slaves that can be controlled by one super computer. They are
manipulating our thoughts and our attitudes, and steering us,
herding us (they consider us animals - the Illuminati consider
themselves god, god men and us to be the animals) they are
herding us in the direction they want to us to go. So yeah, the
music is definitely playing a role in dehumanizing us,
conditioning us, as well as a lot of mind control triggers and
messages are passed via the singing. In the Volume 2 book and in
the "Deeper Insights" book, I spend quite a few pages going into
the codes and the triggers, and I spend several pages explaining
what the different songs that are played over the radio - how
they are used in triggering mind controlled slaves.
Again, I guess itís part of having a culture permeated with the
kind of triggers that just reinforces the programming for the
Right. And if they are going to have their programmed slaves go
to a ritual, there is one song, "A Heartache Tonight", which
will be played over some radio stations. And if I am a mind
controlled slave, and itís Friday night, and I hear that song
over the radio, I may be programmed to switch alters and go to a
pre-arranged location where I am picked up or whatever, and
participate in a satanic sabbat. They are able to use the music
industry in a whole number of ways.
To you knowledge, Fritz, what groups are involved currently in
using mind control slavery?
Currently, mind controlled slaves are used by intelligence
organizations; occult groups; military groups; big and small
religious groups. Many various criminals who are in each of
these groups network together and in fact, their own word to
describe themselves is "The Network". If we are a little bit
more specific about what groups - I was giving you the broad,
general categories. Examples within the US military are Delta
First Earth Battalion, are mind controlled units. Then
youíve got mind controlled slaves scattered throughout all of
the regular branches. Within your intelligence organizations
some of the big offenders are MI-6 and of course their P-4
section, and Naval Intelligence which is ONI. A lot of
government organizations like Bureau of Narcotics, FBI, NASA.
When we look at what kind of occult groups are using this
trauma-based total mind control you will see the KKK, Neo-Nazis,
OTO. You will see groups like the Freemasons and the Oddfellows.
Then you get more hardcore occult groups like the Church of
Satan, the Children of Lucifer, Society of the Dark Lily.
Religions? Youíve got your smaller religions like this group
that was so interested in
Hale Bopp to the extent they
committed suicide. Small groups like that. According to the
information I have, David Koresh and his leaders were mind
controlled slaves who were conducting group control methods over
their Branch Davidian group. Youíve got your small groups like
this clear up to your large groups like the Catholic Church, the
Mormon Church, and the Charismatic Movement.
Some of the branches of the military you mentioned - the Delta
the First Earth Battalion - are you saying that all
of the people involved in these forces are mind controlled?
Within Delta Forces, 100% of them are. Within the
Battalion, from what I understand, that could also be 100% of
its units are under mind control. Within the Army - the Army has
special task groups that - for instance - I am sorry to say, but
unfortunately itís true - the US Army has select squads of
assassins that travel even around the USA and eliminate people.
From my inside information on that, these squads are not
entirely made up of mind controlled slaves - they have a variety
of control methods over these types. I guess what I am saying
is, that although you may find a smattering of mind controlled
slaves used in various branches of the military, those first two
that I mentioned are the only ones that I know of that are
entirely made up of mind controlled robots.
These military operatives - would they have been subjected to
the trauma-based conditioning from childhood?
Yes. Thatís what I am talking about.
How typically do people who end up in these forces get
introduced to the mind control? Through their families?
Well these are victims of mind control that would have been
placed under mind control in childhood.
Typically would they be from military families?
They would be from a wide variety. If you have looked at the way
the military does things, there is a lot of what they call
"military brats" - the children of military men that then are
put into positions of responsibility.
To your awareness, has the corporate world used mind control in
Yes, the corporate world does use mind controlled slaves.
Several examples that pop immediately into my mind are ARCO -
some of your listeners may have read "Angels donít play this HAARP" by
Begich and Manning. If they havenít, I recommend the
book. You will read quite a bit about ARCO which did all kinds
of HAARP research. ARCO did a lot of research and the branch of
ARCO which is APPI held some of the patents. They also worked
with E Systems which held some of the patents for HAARP
research. ARCO is one of the worst offenders, at least in terms
of what I have discovered from victims of mind control that I
have been in contact with. They are one of the worst, so that
probably explains why they were given a highly sensitive
Another company that was given sensitive work to do was
Gunderson. Here in Portland Gunderson Steel has been making a
large number of special order rail cars which have shackles and
cupolas for guards. It is a very sensitive secret project which
has been farmed out to 11 major railcar producers. Gunderson is
one of these.
And these railcars are to be used to transport civilians to all
these already-built concentration camps across America.
Gunderson is another one of these companies that uses mind
control slaves. I am speaking with firsthand knowledge about
that because I have spoken with some of the programmed multiples
that work at Gunderson.
Another corporation that comes to mind is a big, corporate
conglomerate - Disney, Capital Cities, ABC - the three of them
went together and made themselves a nice, big corporate
conglomerate. They produce porn and they do some other
activities with the programmed multiple slaves.
Just getting back to ARCO, we are actually going to be
interviewing Nick Begitch in a future show and talking about the
HAARP project in particular. I understand there are mind control
elements to that project in particular. The information you
found is in addition to that - they have been using mind
controlled, trauma-based conditioned slaves as well?
Right. His book doesnít talk about mind controlled slaves being
used by ARCO - his book is about this technology that they are
installing in Alaska. It is a Star Wars-type technology that
works in the atmosphere and manipulates things electronically -
Yeah. Itís a huge antenna array that shoots high frequency
energy into the ionosphere.
Besides communicating with satellites, it can actually change
the weather. It can also manipulate the way people think in a
geographical area that has been hit by its electromagnetic
One of the side effects apparently is extra low frequency energy
that is reflected back to earth which is the frequency that our
brain operates on.
What typically would these companies use mind controlled slaves
Sensitive projects that have to be kept under wraps by the New
World Order. The production of railcars to haul civilians to
concentration camps. Our government has kept the concentration
camp project pretty low key.
So these people would be used to work on these projects and the
company ensuring that they donít talk about it outside.
You spoke of the Illuminati being an extension of mystery
religions and I wonder if you could tell our listeners what were
the mystery religions, and what was their role in history?
You have asked two questions. One of the people who is well
worth quoting is Manley P. Hall. He is both a Grand Master
Illuminati and a Grand Master in the Freemasons. In his book,
"The Secret Teachings of All Ages", he said that the mystery
religions were the channel through which the light to mankind
was disseminated. (p.29) The mystery religions claimed to the
ancient world that they had revelation knowledge that would help
enlighten and save people. They claimed that by joining them,
and then going through the secret rituals, that you would
elevate yourself. They claimed that you would become divine, or
that you would reunite with your divine self if you went through
the rituals and got to the highest, deepest levels of their
secrets. Thatís what they were telling people on the outside.
There are a lot of different ways to look at a phenomenon and I
want to bring in a couple of other angles. First, Swinburne
Kleimer, a high ranking Freemason and Rosicrucian leader, said
that there was a secret body that ruled and controlled all the
various ancient mystery religions in the ancient world - Europe,
Egypt, Babylon, clear over to Indian. You can read this claim in
his book "Ancient Mystic Oriental Freemasonry" on p. 84-85. I
can agree with him. What he is referring to here - the one
secret body that will control all the various mystery religions
- was what we call today The Illuminati. The Illuminati is the
continuation of that secret controlling body. Freemasonry is the
outer symbology of the ancient mystery religions, but if you
want the hardcore rituals of the ancient mystery religions,
those are the ones that are performed by the Illuminati.
And what was their role in history? They played an exceptionally
role in history. If one thinks about the power that kings have,
who are kings dependent on? Kings must work through other people
and they are dependent on their advisors, and their financiers.
You canít have a king going off and making a war unless he has
money, so he is depending on those financiers. The financiers
are dependent on trade and production of goods. The mystery
religions, or secret societies, had so much power because they
controlled the trade guilds with the trade secrets on how to
produce the different goods. For instance the art of making
armour, or the art of making a long bow, or the art of making a
venetian war ship, or getting closer to home - the roots of
Freemasonry go back to the masonic builders guild and the
architectural knowledge to design and build a cathedral was
controlled by trade guilds which were controlled by these
mystery religions, these secret societies. You could be the king
of a country, but you were still under the control of these
mystery religions and secret societies. The man who supposedly
converted the Roman Empire over to Christianity was the head of
the Mithra mystery religion. They have played an extremely
powerful and important part in history. They have controlled the
priesthood and the trade guilds. But also there are a couple of
ways they have played a continuous role in history in that they
have guided human endeavours because the Illuminati, the mystery
religions, have what they call "The Keepers of the Great Plans".
Thatís not just my own opinion. Manley P. Hall, the Illuminati
kingpin, in at least one of his books, goes into how the mystery
religions of the great plan to bring in this great New World
What was this great plan?
Part of it goes back to the idea of the Golden Age of the Millenium. Thatís an important concept for me to talk about. I
will be stepping on a few peopleís toes here. Your Christians
are really unaware of where their concept of the millenium came
from. They think that it comes from the bible, but if they go
back historically they will see that William Miller, who started
the Adventist movement and started talking about millenium, was
a high ranking Freemason. He predicted that Christ would return
in 1844. The question is, did Christ return in 1844? Most
people, because we have a limited perspective on things, would
say no, he didnít. But there was a man called Nabob who appeared
in Persia, and he said I am Christ, and he started the Bahai
religion. He fulfilled William Millerís prophecy. The Freemasons
were the ones who introduced the Bahai religion to America, and
they did it through the Chicago Masonic Temple around the turn
of the century. The Bahai religion is committed to a one world
government, a new world order, and a one world religion. There
was this Masonic Oriental Order of the Magi and they were the
hardcore group within the Chicago Masonic Temple who started the
Bahai religion in this country. These are the kinds of things
that I tried to expose so that people see how this all
A very brilliant man, James H. Billington, who was the librarian
of the Library of Congress, wrote a book, "Fire in the Minds of
Men" and the Illuminati didnít realize what he was doing. He
kind of blindsided. He was a member of the Council of Foreign
Relations so he as one of them. They thought he was one of
theirs. This book goes through and it talks about where the word
"revolution" came from - it came from the occult societies. The
word "revolution" which we use today to mean "armed rebellion"
didnít have that meaning in the beginning. The way it began to
be used to mean armed rebellion to overthrow the old order and
establish something new, was because occult societies, like the
Freemasons who had been behind all of the revolutions of modern
history from the American Revolution on - have all been created
by the Freemasons and the Illuminati. Billington goes back in
and traces how all the revolutions were started by this occult
elite. The term revolution came from the occult idea that we
were going to revolve ourselves back to the Golden Age. There is
this great quest for the Golden Age, this millenialism. Thatís
what communism is about. If you look at the early founders of
communism - they were trying to revolve us back through
revolution to the Golden Age that had been lost.
What was their idea of what a Golden Age consisted of?
Socialized communistic type society. This is why when you read
masonic prophets, like H.G. Wells who wrote a number of books on
how the New World Order could be brought about, the Fabian
Socialists, etc. who have all these detailed plans - itís always
for a socialistic, communistic type utopia.
But with a fascist leadership it seems ...
Yes. (laughs) On the surface it sounds really hunky-dory. It
sounds really great. But it ends up more like Animal Farm and
I would also like to talk about what the relation of
intelligence groups such as the CIA, the DIA and the
MI-6 is to
Thereís a very close relationship. You will notice with MI-6, in
the first few decades of their existence (they came into
existence at the turn of the century), they hired only women who
came from elite Illuminati families. If you were a female
working with MI-6, you were referred to as Queenie, and they
really were Illuminati queens. We go back and look at who set up
these organizations, who runs these organizations. Look at the
CIA for instance. People that understand what the Council for
Foreign Relations is all about and how thatís an Illuminati
front will understand better what I am talking about. You look
at Dulles, McCone, Helms, Slesinger, Bush, Turner, Casey - you
just go down your list of directors of the CIA - and they were
members of the Council for Foreign Relations. Not only that, but
they were members of other organizations that are Illuminati
fronts. Turner was a Rhodes scholar which is an entry point for
Illuminati. The Astors helped found the Rhodes scholars. Casey
and McCone - both of whom were Knights of Malta. Look at the
membership of the Knights of Malta, 50% black nobility. I am
talking about black in the context of the black (guelph)
European aristocratic bloodlines - the black (.....s) were a
very powerful bloodline that have controlled Europe for many
centuries. General Walter Bedell Smith was head of the CIA -
from 1950 to 1953 - working in US intelligence - he was one of
the co-founders of the Bilderbergers.
(Illuminati) was the Chairman of the original Bilderbergers. One
of the late Chairs was Peter Rupert (Lord Carrington) was Order
of St. John which is the Protestant version of the Knights of
Malta. He was a director of a number of the Rothschild
organizations like the Rio Tinto Zinc Corporation. He was a
member of the Order of the Garter, which is very significant;
and a member of the Order of Osiris. The
Order of the Garter is
one of the primary organizations which was given the
responsibility to be in charge of the plans to bring in the New
World Order by the Illuminati, and to give continuity from one
generation to another. The Order of the Garter is extremely
powerful. Your coat of arms etc. is all controlled by the Order
of the Garter which is set up in covens of 13, groups of 13. If
you have ever looked at heraldry you will know how important
this is. The Bilderbergers is also set up in groups of 13, the
inner committee is 13.
Henry Kissinger is a prominent member of the Bilderbergers. What
is his involvement in that group, to your awareness?
I donít know that he is a member himself, but he is a member of
MI-6, he has been a member of P2 Freemasonry, involved with a
lot of things. He is a big player for them to implement their
agenda. I do not know whether heís an actual member within the
Illuminati or not, but he has sure been a big player. In fact
one day I listened to Henry Kissinger speaking and he said,
will get a New World Order. We may not get it in our generation,
but if we do not get it in our generation, we will get it in the
In other words they are just going to keep
trying. Thatís what the Order of the Garter has been assigned to
do. When we look at these different intelligence groups, like
the KGB and the CIA, we think we are looking at two groups that
are fighting a covert war against each other. However that is
only what we are meant to see.
There is a recent book by a
Colonel Corsell, "Day After
Roswell". His book is eye opening in many ways, in fact it may
be hard to get after a little while. There seems to be a
movement to suppress it. In his book he talks about how the CIA
and the KGB are essentially one organization, and this was back
in the 50ís. He was tailed by CIA agents even though he was a
Colonel in the US Army - heís got the CIA spying on him, trying
to find out what he is doing. He has to keep secrets from the
CIA. I had an acquaintance whose father is high up in the CIA
and he said when he was a teenager, one day his father came by
and dropped a bombshell on him in that he couldnít even
understand what his father was talking about. His father said
out of the blue that the Cold War was a hoax. This teenager who
had bought into the appearances the common people are supposed
to accept was really confused. He didnít understand. He said it
took him years to understand what his father was secretly
We see these different groups and they appear to be different
teams. But itís sort of like coming up to a football field and
seeing two teams playing each other - you canít automatically
assume they are not from the same school. It may be a scrimmage
or an intervarsity game. You will see the hidden hand of the
Illuminati in the creation of both the CIA and the KGB. In MI-6
you will see Lord Victor Rothschild running things; Admiral Sir
Hugh Sinclair - the Sinclairs are one of these families. MI-5,
which is internal security for Britain - their first Director
General for many years was Major General Sir Vern Keele. He was
a Freemason, and a number of other Director Generals of MI-5
have also been Freemasons and also have been tied to these other
organizations. The Director of MI-5 during WWII was Knights of
Grace of St. John. You could go on and on showing the
If you look at Allen Dulles who was the Director of the CIA from
1953-1961 you will see his role with Hitler prior to WWII,
working with the international financiers - the bankers of these
Illuminati kingpins. You will see his connections to the elite.
And certainly the information about the CIA facilitating the
flight of Nazi war criminals to North America - Dulles was
involved in that.
Dulles was the man the Illuminati used to inform Hitler that the
financiers would support him in his bid for power. He was the
guy who brought the good news to Hitler ... hey, you can go for
it, we will finance you.
I would like to talk about another CIA director who was actually
recently in Toronto accepting an Honorary Degree at the
University of Toronto - George Bush. I wondered if you could
talk about his affiliation with Skull & Bones ...
Skull & Bones is an entry point into the Illuminati. Researchers
have noticed the
Skull & Bones, but there are a lot of other
organizations which are entry points. Rhodes Scholars, a group
in Oxford, there are number of different fraternal
organizations. Skull & Bones is not the only one - but thatís
the one George Bush joined. There is also Scroll & Key, Rezilius, and some other fraternal organizations. One of the
things George Bush did in his initiation ceremony for Skull &
Bones was to lie in manure and recount all of his sexual
I understand thatís an initiation ritual for all members of
Skull & Bones.
You mentioned at the top of the interview that
George Bush was
related to some royal family - is that the House of Windsor?
He is a distant relative of Prince Charles and Queen Elizabeth.
Itís a distant relationship.
In your opinion, what has George Bushís role been in attempting
to implement a global government?
Heís been a criminal, and he has provided leadership for
criminal activity. Heís been involved with creating wars, with
drug running, with pornography and mind control.
Are you aware of any information that George Bush is also a
Cathy OíBrien for instance, who I have visited with,
her daughter spent time with George Bush and other people that
are familiar with the mind control and whatís going on have also
said that the man was a pedophile.
Do you think that people in groups trying to bring about global
control are planning a take-over attempt at a certain point in
time, or do you think they will continue this New World Order
more gradually as they have been doing through expanded economic
blocks and so forth?
Itís a combination of gradual, spiced with some cataclysmic
events. From the vantage point of being a planner, and having
the actual plans and details, you would see that things are
being implemented on a continuous basis. For instance, I have
mentioned previously that the Panama Canal and Suez Canal were
planned by the Illuminati back around 1800 if not before. Those
were things they wanted to implement on the way to a New World
When you see cataclysmic events occur, letís say there is a
nuclear exchange or aliens all of a sudden arrive, they seem
cataclysmic and instantaneous to those of us who are the common
people. But the planning for these events has gone on for a long
time. So yes, it will be gradual, if you are looking at the
implementation of these plans - but the appearance of some of
these things will be rather cataclysmic. In order to bring in
the New World Order as they would like to implement it, they
want us to ask them to bring in what they want. So for instance
in WWII when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour, the Americans
wanted to give away their freedoms to make their government more
powerful. They will be implementing things that will cause us to
ask us to do what they want to do.
What kinds of scenarios are possible?
For instance in Australia - where this madman went in and he
gunned down a lot of innocent people - children and families -
boy - right after that they ramrodded through gun legislation
and approximately half a million weapons were turned in without
a fight by the Australians because of this horrendous massacre
that took place. The same things are going to happen in this
country and on this surface itís going to appear like this is
just a madman who flipped out and he gunned down a lot of
people. But from "their" vantage-point, they have spent a lot of
years planning and programming.
And one could argue that it has already started to happen in
terms of things like the Oklahoma City bombing and bringing in
the counter-terrorism bill immediately after.
Yes. Exactly. I would say yes to both aspects. It will be both
gradual and it will have a cataclysmic impact.
How, in your opinion, could mind control be used in one of these
scenarios to create cataclysmic events?
I use the term "New World Order" but you could also use "World
Order" because the same people who are bringing in the new world
order have actually been controlling the world all along. Itís
really not "new" at all - itís just going into a more intense
phase where the control is going to be more intense, and the
mind control is going to be more pervasive and powerful. These
people have been controlling things from behind the scenes for a
long time. We go back and look at the power the British Empire
had and the power that the French Empire had - and you ask
yourself, well who was running the British Empire and the French
Empire? And you see the same people, the same families. I had
mentioned earlier how many American presidents were related and
how we have really been controlled by these oligarchal families
here in the USA.
How would mind control possibly be used in a take-over scenario?
One way that it could be used is if people look at the
Bronson movie, "Telethon", you will see the end result of this
mind control. A housewife is called, given a fairy-tale ditty,
and she goes out and blows up a military installation. There are
a lot of people with programming to do acts of sabotage and
There are a lot of things that have to be accomplished. The
weakest link in the chain is going to bust - and in order to
implement all of these things from behind the scenes - you have
to have mind controlled people salted in at all different levels
to ensure that nobody reveals the secrets, that people do the
job they are supposed to, that people forget the things they are
supposed to forget. For instance banking - in the last few years
a lot of banks have gone bankrupt. That has been very quietly
covered over by bank mergers. A bank goes belly-up - they will
bring in a bigger bank and swallow it up and call it a merger
instead of a bankruptcy. How do they keep these things secret? I
know some programmed multiples personally working in the banking
system, and I do not know the full extent of what these people
are used for, I can only speculate. They are definitely using
mind controlled slaves within the banking system to hide their
Quite a number of victims of mind control have spoken about
end-times programming. What can you tell us about that?
The end-times programming refers to programming geared to
bringing in New World Order and the reign of the anti-christ. It
has a lot of colour programming - the list of people who are to
be dealt with includes a red list comprised of those who are
anti-new-world-order opposition leaders who are to be executed
about two weeks before martial law. The blue list are people who
are against what is being done, but they are going to attempt to
program them, arrest them to see if they can correct their
thinking. Probably a lot of them will be killed in the midst of
reprogramming. The final list, the yellow list, is people who
will be rounded up for re-education camps after martial law.
In the programming there are yellow flags at half-mast; yellow
dog on run; blue fish at home; and I know this from work with
mind control victims. Colour codes are used because they will be
using a lot of mind control slaves, including foreign troops
(eg. Russians) to implement these things. It is easier to use
colour coding. Things will be implemented with activation codes
which also use colour codes, eg. blue ray, red ray, purple ray,
green ray. Those will go to team leaders. If the listeners are
familiar with Amway they understand uplines and downlines - a
team leader can have perhaps four people under him - he calls
them - each of them calls four people. Those will be
colour-coded. Each one of the eg. four will have a colour (blue
ray, red ray, purple ray, green ray). And then some of the sites
are colour coded. Internally within the minds of the slaves,
some of them have internal crystals -- these crystals are timed
-- they could also be rocks -- they are timed to explode or
release certain programming at a certain point in time. These
crystals will have colour codes as well.
If the therapist begins getting into end-time programming,
thatís one of the things they are going to notice. They are also
going to notice mountain-tops are used quite a lot for meeting
place or significant places. A lot of international cooperation
is involved in their plans and programming. Common news events
are often-times triggers -- eg. Lady Diana dying -- Princess
Diís death caused certain mind control slaves to trigger off
that news event.
End times programming also involves (because of the ushering in
of the reign of the anti-christ) demonology involved -- the
Demon "Purson" involved with the programming. His job is the
Revelator of the anti-christ. He will know a victimís system.
You will see "Apollo" -- Son of Apollo is the anti-christ -- so
Apollo is the father of the anti-christ. You will see Escolapius
(sp) - he is the Demon of healing. You see a lot of healing
going on in the Charismatic Movement -- some of the ministers in
this Movement are actually satanists and I know from eye
witnesses that in secret they carry out satanic rituals where
they attempt to gain the power of Escolapius which is a demonic
healing power. When they go into these churches they use mind
control and this demonic healing power to heal Christians and
then tell people "God healed you". They donít state to them
which god ...
Another aspect that is characteristic to the end-times
programming is the involvement of the aliens. A lot of alien
programming, plans with aliens, and a whole series of
programming categories related to catastrophes. I am now
speaking to therapists - when you get into the part of the
system that is involved with end-times catastrophes, you will
get into working with _____ alters. And another area involves a
lot of computer control of people. And I am still only in the
beginning of understanding all of this. There is an actual
computer at 666 Connecticut Avenue in Washington, DC which is
called the Janus 2 computer. When victims start spewing out
their programming they start talking about the Janus coding
which has something to do with tracking and reprogramming, and
ties in with computers.
Then there is the Ambassador coding (sub-codes include setting
fires; suicide; doing an act of violence against somebody).
Emperor coding. Morse coding.
What in a general sense would they be programmed to do.
We are not talking about just running drugs or prostitution --
we are talking about control of society as a whole. One of the
scarier options they have is to bring in a mock alien invasion.
They will have flying saucers with aliens arrive. Because they
control so many different aspects of society, even though a
number of people like myself would say "beware of this, beware
of that" we would be drowned out by this orchestra of people in
different sectors of society (congressmen, newsmen, religious
leaders) saying whatever the plan is for them to say. Of course
there will be controlled opposition. There will be a few people
saying, "I distrust these aliens, or this agenda, or what the
government is doing" but they will be controlled opposition who
will gather all the opposition to what they want to do and raise
the hopes of people who are against this hidden agenda but will
not actually carry through and stop it.
Do you believe that the governments of the world have UFO
technology that they have been developing? This alien invasion
would be a staged invasion using their own military technology
There is no question in my mind about it. Another agenda they
have is to destroy faith in national governments. That has been
divided into thousands of different projects. Jehovahís
Witnesses who go door to door. If you look at their literature,
it works very hard at destroying faith in nationalism. But who
would suspect the Jehovahís Witnesses? Their Watchtower Society
is actually an Illuminati front. In fact one of their members
accidentally stumbled on to a big clue to this - he noticed
there were thousands of hidden occult symbols in the Watchtower
artwork. There would be a picture of a waterfall in a Watchtower
magazine, but when you looked at it really closely you would
realize it was a skull. Itís like Currier & Ives used to have
these hidden pictures - look at a tree and see other pictures.
They have these occult messages hidden in the Watchtower
literature - like a goat leading a herd of sheep, things like
that. Or a thief running off with occult jewellery with an
all-seeing eye and things like this.
They have a lot of hidden messages. Who would think of
Witnesses being used? They use J-Wís to access some of their
slaves. Who can go door-to-door without suspicion? I brought
Cisco out of the Illuminati. It doesnít mean I am the only
person who ever helped her, but these J-Wís will come to the
door, and I will say, "No, donít answer the door." Her natural
inclination would have been, "oh they are just Jehovah
Witnesses." Interestingly the same couple who came to our door,
to try to talk to Cisco, showed up the next day clear across
town at another victimís doorstep - very strange. I know the
Jehovah Witnesses from the inside and how they map out their
territories and how they go door to door - and what happened was
not normal. You had to have a team of people who were trying to
access slaves that were getting free, and their cover was to be
It sounds like I am getting a little bit off track, but what I
am trying to say is - it is in their objective to destroy faith
in the national government. How do you destroy a national
government? You create civil war, create distrust of that
government, bankrupt that government. There are all these
different projects to bring down the American government, and
bring down respect for our government - they play both ends
against the middle.
Implementation of the end-times agendas involves a lot of
agendas and a lot of people scurrying around doing different
things -- until you see the whole picture and how it all fits
together, it just looks like a lot of chaos.
I wanted to come back to your point about them creating a
chaotic situation, such as some of the scenarios you have been
talking about. In order for the public to then ask for the
military to step in, or for the United Nations to step in, and
basically ask for a state of martial law -- is that your take on
how they are going to do this?
We will ask them for what they want to do. People have sat in on
Illuminati meetings where they gave their 20, 30, 40 year plans
-- the key word to all of those plans was that it would happen
"naturally" - as if it was naturally happening. In order to
implement that, you have a lot of mind controlled slaves out
there. Another example, they want to destroy the continuity of
religious beliefs in the USA. The USA was basically founded by a
Protestant majority, there were very few Catholics when the USA
was started. In other words, the people of this country had a
common agreement -- one outlook on morality.
When people have a moral belief system, Buddhist or whatever, if
itís a very strong belief system, itís hard to change them. What
they are trying to do is fragment our belief system. They have
brought in a lot of foreign belief systems into the USA but you
also have all of these New Age gurus popping up and creating
their own little New Age groups. In the bigger picture, itís to
destroy the fabric of a unified moral response, and a lot of
these New Age leaders (eg. Elizabeth Claire Prophet - Church
Universal and Triumphant) are mind controlled slaves. Jay Z.
Knight, thatís who she goes by - the entity she channels - sheís
a mind control slave. These are New Age leaders and they are
gathering flocks. One of the gals who became a friend of mine
who left the C.U.T. and became a Christian, in having worked
with her, I noticed some red flags that maybe she, as one of the
leaders of Elizabeth Claire Prophetís group, was a mind control
victim, and sheís not the only evidence I have that not only are
the leaders under mind control who start the groups, but part of
their flocks are mind control victims who are being programmed
to join these cults.
Imagine if you are a religious leader and you get secret help
from the establishment and you have people being programmed to
join your organization, how that gives you an edge over you or I
starting a religion. So thatís one reason why we have such a
chaotic religious atmosphere out there where all of these gurus
and religious leaders are starting all these small weird groups.
You talked about Dr. Ewen Cameron as being one of the mind
control programmers. I would like to know specifically what his
and McGill Universityís contribution to the development of
trauma based mind control is, to your awareness.
I donít know that I have a great deal to share. I know that St.
Maryís Hospital there in Montreal was used by these people for
programming. In the basement they had what was known as The
Zombie Room, and an isolation room and the Grid Room. From
various victims of mind control I know that various Catholic
Church institutions were used in Quebec. As far as Cameronís
personal contribution, I know that he worked for years assisting
in the programming and research. The things that he researched
were classified, and I donít have a good grasp of what he
discovered. I know that if we read "Journey Into Madness" by
Gordon Thomas, in a couple of places in his book he makes fun of
Dr. Cameron. He says that Cameronís grants hadnít produced any
tangible value to the CIA or that there was a Dr. Gottlieb who
was supposedly investigating the doctor and questioning whether
Cameron had done anything to help the agents. I consider those
kinds of statements the typical kind of CIA disinformation that
is put out. They typically say "we did research but we didnít
find anything of value." I have a hard time believing that Dr.
Cameron who was on the leading edge of mind control and who was
in touch with the top mind control programmers of his day and
learning techniques from them - that the man was of no value to
the CIA. I am not trying to put down Gordon Thomasí book because
I would recommend it to people, but this is the type of
disinformation that spews forth from so many different sources.
Why was he head of the prestigious American Psychiatric
Association, and the World Psychiatric Association? Why was he
put in charge of so many very powerful organizations by the
establishment if he was so worthless to their agenda?
Just in a general sense, what were the types of institutions
that were involved in the development of mind control across
Good question. I can quote them.
Admiral Stansfield Turner, on
August 3, 1977, told a Senate Investigating Committee that in
the USA, prisons, pharmaceutical companies, hospitals, 44
medical colleges, American universities and corporations were
helping the CIA carry out the mind control experiments. I
believe that using the word "experiments" is a little bit of
disinformation. This was operational programming. They were
taking the people who were coming out of these mind control
experiments and using them. They were far more than just
experiments. But those were the kind of institutions that were
assisting in the programming.
Can you make a statement about the role of psychiatry in the
development of mind control?
They have been very important to develop the mind control from
being more what we would call training to being placed on a very
scientific basis. There has been extensive research into the
mind by psychiatrists. That research has been invaluable for
developing the mind control technologies. Behavior modification
(Skinner, Pavlov, etc) findings were directly implemented in
teaching various alters to do certain things. If you read our
Volume 2 book and the Deeper Insights book, I go into how each
of the different alters are created (ie. Gatekeepers). At some
point a Gatekeeper alter will be taken to a door and then using
behavior modification techniques, severely torturing the alter,
they are taught not to step beyond the door, but hold their
place at that door. The research that shows that this type of
training would be effective came from behavior modification and
Do you think that some psychiatrists may have been unwitting in
helping develop this technology?
There are several different levels of participation. People who
are just plain evil; people who are coerced, blackmailed, mind
control victims themselves; then a level of people below that
who are unwitting dupes of the system. My father was never part
of the system in the sense of he never joined any occult
societies, he is not in favour of a New World Order,
philosophically heís not aligned with them. Heís just somebody
who believes in science and he believes science can help the
world. He wanted to help the world, make a positive difference.
The Illuminati deflect what these researchers want for good and
use it for evil purposes. I have a hard time with one scientist
I was talking with earlier this year. He developed biological
weapons for the USA (viruses, anthrax, etc.). He said knowledge
is neutral, it is neither good nor bad. Itís how itís used. I am
thinking in my head, "are you that stupid, that you donít
realize the people you are working for and who are going to use
this stuff are going to use it for evil? ..." A lot of these
scientists are so focused on the tiny little details of what
they are trying to research, and ego plays a part in this. They
want to discover something - their ego, pride, concentration in
the research doesnít allow them to step back and say "what is
this going to be used for?"
The information that we have been talking about has been quite
depressing, and I think a lot of people are going to be affected
by it. What message of hope do you have for people after
learning about all of this?
Thereís two sides to a coin, and we have been talking about the
negative side of the coin. The positive side is that a lot of
the technologies that have been developed could actually be used
for the advancement of mankind, to benefit mankind. Another
positive is that in spite of the forces that are trying to
destroy humanity, there are a lot of positive forces. There are
quite a number of independent researchers, and they havenít
gotten much media attention except ridicule - people have been
researching free energy, and they have made a lot of
advancements - so the common person would not be dependent upon
the establishment for any of its energy. Another area of
research is alternative medicine, amazing discoveries that
really liberate people from establishment medicine. You have the
internet and photocopy machines which have given the common
person the ability to transmit and gather a lot of information
without being part of the establishment. You have home
schooling. There are developments that are taking place that do
not rely on the establishment monopolies. These monopolies are
fragile and they can be broken.
Another positive is that in spite of the monumental power they
have, people like myself have been able to slip through their
control cracks and have been able to free people from the
deepest depths of the organizations. I have been able to get out
so much information exposing their methods and their agenda. I
am saying this to show these people are not invincible.
I would like to thank you very much for joining us on this radio
series. Itís been absolutely fascinating talking to you, and I
would like to thank you for bringing this information out.
I very much appreciate this chance, and I want to congratulate
your courage and your love for the truth in bringing this to the
Canadian and the American people.