from NewDawnMagazine Website


Dan Winterís background spans a broad spectrum of disciplines. He graduated with honors at the Jesuit University of Detroit, he pursued graduate studies in psychophysiology, and the origins of languages. He has worked as a Systems Analyst with IBM, an industrial metallurgist and a crystallographer.

Dan lectures extensively around the world and recently toured Australia. It was during Danís Sydney series of lectures that this interview was conducted. The object of the interview was to address Danís applications of mathematical modelling to optimize spiritual development as a spin-off of his research on the relationship of emotion to wave length structure.


One important tool developed by Dan is the Heart Tuner which measures or quantizes the onset of conscious self-awareness by virtue of the apparent geometry of the heart harmonics being geometrically linked by progressions based on powers of Phi (the Golden Mean 0.618033989...).

Dan is a prolific writer and much of his work is available on the Internet. The writings on American based websites however, were shut down and made inaccessible to the public on 23 May 2001 by the United States District Court, Western District of New York, as a result of a controversy regarding the generation of letter form shadows of a number of different alphabets. Danís side of the story is at

More information on the interviewer, Tony Mierzwicki, can be found at

Tony: Dan could you tell us about a little bit of your esoteric training?

Dan: Well I was trained in the Gurdjieff school at Claymont, Charlestown, West Virginia, in the Gurdjieff sacred gymnastic []. I lived with very spiritual communities. I studied some of the Ophanim Enochian material with Vincent Bridges whilst I worked with Israel Regardie. Iíve studied spectograms of the Hebrew alphabet and some gematria, some of the Fred Wolf work which I then replicated.


Iíve also been involved in some studies of John Dee and Edward Kelly and also Fulcanelli and the connection with Schwaller de Lubicz and those sorts of controversies. I also worked with and some of the Sir Francis Bacon myth. Iíve also been involved in some of the studies on the Boynich manuscripts and their meaning with respect to the Cathars.

Tony: How about your academic background?

Dan: My academic background? Undergraduate electrical engineering, graduate work in psychophysiology of the origin of languages. My graduate degree was incomplete, I went off to study the Gurdjieff work and then I was trained as a systems analyst with IBM. Then I became a computer animator in multimedia. Iíve done a lot of lecturing on non-linear energy source technologies, psychotronics kinds of communities, so I have a lot of electrical background, so I tend to bridge the electrical with the metaphysical.

Tony: Interesting, because most people tend to consider academic background as very much separated from spiritual background whereas you appear to have successfully merged the two together.

Dan: Well Iíve gone to a lot of trouble. When I met the Jesuit who ran the Fermi Lab in Adamsmasher in Chicago, he said ďOh, I keep my physics and my religion separate.Ē But I was determined not to fall for that schizophrenia so Iíve worked at that. At least itís fun.

Tony: So, what sort of tips could you give people as to how they could improve their own spiritual development? Like, for instance, places where they should live and so on?

Dan: Well, what weíve been teaching here is definition of life force. The description on the main index web, at, where if weíre able to define life force as electricians which I believe we have now. Life force in the Celestine Prophecy was originally all human interactions about charge. But weíve extended that now to mean life force is the ability to attract in self-organized charge. Why is an egg gathering voltage?


If weíre correct about that, and the tool, the Heart Tuner here we use to spectrum analyze charge density here, this Heart Tuner weíre able to measure the harmonic analysis of capacitance using a biological capacitive probe in a pre-amplifier and then when we spectrum analyze that we are able to see when the charge harmonics gather whatís called life force.


So if we are correct, that life force is the ability to attract this charge. When we measure the life force in an egg, before and after we put the egg in a capacitor, the spectrum analysis of charge makes it very clear that the life force in the egg is the ability to suck in that capacitance. So if thatís correct that life force is this fractal attractor for capacitance, then success in architecture, success in making a place to live whether itís choosing a place on the land or choosing a house, is success in building a good capacitor to hold charge density.


The thing is that charge density doesnít converge at one place, plus you have fractality, plus you have paramagnetic materials, with dielectric, etc. So you begin to look at all the factors that make a house a place to live in a land alive and you treat it like an electrical problem, which it truly is.

Tony: So in practical terms, where should people be living?

Dan: People should be living in places where the paramagnetic flux, the magnetism, is able to converge non-destructively. People should be living in places where the charge density is not being bled. Things that bleed capacitance are metal, and sharp points and most synthetic materials.


Things that bend capacitance like a lens and can create cavities and cocoons and little self-organizing field domains are things like paramagnetic stone and certain wood and organic materials that actually hold capacitance and life force. So thatís a big clue as to what your house needs to be made of. It essentially means that heavy metal structures in big cities bleed capacitance so fast that of course people die sooner.

Tony: So basically weíre talking about timber cottages, and stone cottages, like sandstone cottages?

Dan: With almost a total reduction or elimination of metal actually, and a very radical reduction in the amount of wiring, and electricals, and currents, and circuits, and things like that. Because any field effect which does not embed in the earthís magnetic flux, by embedding I mean a wavelength that fits the nest, creates fractionation, loss of attention, and loss of life.

Tony: So, weíre talking about locations by the seaside, in forests?

Dan: Yes, weíre talking, this is in addition to what has been known as sacred space, that any place that holds charge has been called sacred, because the field effect is sustainable. And in practical terms, what it means is you go there and you feel your aura unpack, because in fractals, packing and unpacking is non-destructive. And the unpacking of your aura which is electrostatic and capacitive is the unfolding of a field effect that then becomes your nervous system. Your body literally inhabits the land.

Tony: So, are sacred spaces naturally existing, or can they be created?

Dan: Both. Sacred spaces are naturally existing in the sense that Mother Nature has maximum life force in where charge density has already been made into a fractal, and sacred space can be created by using paramagnetic materials to fabricate capacitive cocoons that hold life force. An example of that I believe was the Garden of Eden in Sumeria, which was an experiment in maintaining life force by arranging capacitors.

Tony: What about optimal places for being born and for dying? You mentioned those in your workshop.

Dan: Well we use the example that the Cherokee shaman looks for a place where the little hill looks like the mountain in the distance because you could die there and your biological magnetism could unpack non-destructively from the small to the big.


And thus your soul, the amount of electrical field effect coherence we call a soul, is able to unfold and distribute itself in the land and thus not be fractionated, in other words, become immortal. So that applies to both birthing and dying. Essentially if you miss the mouthpiece of a megaphone, your voice is not amplified. A megaphone is a name for a fractal.

Tony: What sort of advice would you have for people who are doomed to live in the cities and not live in an idyllic situation either by the sea or in a forest?

Dan: Well if youíre forced to live in the city there are obviously places of power there which are places of capacitance. Carlos CastaŮeda describes some of the psychological indicators of a place of power. But to begin to be able to do some dowsing yourself is an excellent way to begin to be able to feel magnetism which I consider to be survival required. Once you are able to do that youíre able to locate the places in the city where the magnetism is most alive and thus steer your life around to those choices.

Tony: What sort of techniques would you recommend for dowsing? Would you use a couple of willow wands, or how would you go about it?

Dan: I personally am a big believer in not using wands at all, or a pendulum. But Iím not religious about that, I just think that if you start from the very beginning by noticing that you feel the presence of a magnet in your hand, that presence of feeling magnetism is your survival because itís how you will navigate when you lucid dream or die. Using that skill to feel magnetism directly you begin to prehend magnetic flux lines in your bed, in your house, in your park, and your city.

Tony: Are there any easy techniques that people can use to better sensitize themselves?

Dan: Yes. Feeling a magnetic line is not unlike seeing an aura. The more capacitance in your body the more likely you are to become sensitive, because you literally become more coherent mathematically. So sitting under an old growth tree predicts your likelihood of new clairvoyance from Celestine Prophecy. The same thing applies to being able to feel magnetism.


So if you took a relaxed nap and some deep breathing in a pristine spot under an old growth tree your likelihood just after that of newly being able to feel the magnetic lines in yourself is increased. So if you combine that with going some place where you know that there is a strong magnetic line you begin to feel them for yourself, and that in my view is the beginning of living.

Tony: Are there are many trees that are more suited for the purpose that youíve just described?

Dan: In general the principle is that the closer the grain structure of the wood, the more the fractal density of the charge and therefore, self-awareness of the structure of the tree electrically. The tree is the name for a fractal branching algorithm of electricity basically. The fern tree was the first fractal.


So the more fractal the tree, the more close the grain structure of the wood, the more it is paramagnetic, hardwoods for example. The oak tree is another example of a tree thatís classically known to be highly magnetic, the Druids used them. But there are many such trees.


Actually weíre able now to spectrum analyze the charge at the base of the trees and we find trees which are more responsive to human emotion than others. In general those are the trees that are larger, older trees that still have a lot of life force and have been relatively pristine in their not being exposed to too much magnetic pollution.

Tony: So apart from oak trees what other trees would you recommend?

Dan: Well a living pine tree can be very fractal as well even though it is a soft tree. Iím not really an expert on trees so I donít have a detailed enough answer to that question I suppose. Actually weíve been making quite a few measures on trees using this capacitive transducer for the heart tuner. The Heart Tuner is at


But I would say in general, look for a tree that literally is attracting life force and you can feel it pulse under your hand. The same way a sacro-cranial practitioner can feel the long wave currents in your spine, you feel the pulsing of the tree.

Tony: In your workshop you talk about the negative effects of strong magnetic fields in houses. What are the best ways to get around those magnetic fields?

Dan: Well we talked in the workshop about using highly piezo-electric stones like quartz and granite and amethyst and in key nodes around the house to bounce a geopathic magnetic line around the house so it does not go through your bed.


We talked about moving the electrical devices to one quarter and living in the other, reducing the metal in your house, reducing the amperage flow in magnetic devices, turning off the main circuit breaker at night, there are various techniques. Often if you canít find a magnetic line thatís going through the house because itís so weak, when you track magnetic lines around the house, youíre literally able to get an idea of where theyíre trying to go through the house.

Tony: What sort of diet would you recommend for people who wish to embark on a spiritual path?

Dan: I teach something called the Twinkling Eyes Lifestyle which divides into four categories, the hygienes to make bliss possible, which I believe is charge density. And those are divided into diet, and Feng Shui, the geomancy of backyard, and the posture of kinesthetics of bliss, and enough knowledge of soul purpose to be able to follow your bliss.


In the diet area what I teach is that the diet should be mostly made of live food and high quality protein; drastically reduced intake of wheat, corn and soy and all mono-cultured foodstuffs; a drastic reduction, almost elimination, of all stimulants; drinking only spring water and fresh squeezed anything; lowering the quantity of carbohydrate intake; increase the intake of fresh fruits and vegetables.


I eat nuts and fruit and fruit juice for breakfast and usually guacamole and avocado for lunch to help me through, and then a fruit salad sometime there and occasionally some raw fish, those kinds of things. I do recommend a trace mineral supplement and I use Microhydrin [a broad-spectrum antioxidant] occasionally and things like that.

Tony: What sort of meditation techniques would you recommend?

Dan: I recommend that entering the stillness is a good way to get charge density. One of the best ways to enter the stillness is to do the fractal of high heart rate before low heart rate. So I recommend meditation should usually be preceded by posture work and the kinesthetics, the yoga, the sacred circle dance, the Eurythmy, the Tai Chi, the sacred gymnastic, the movement for bliss so that the meditation doesnít become stuck in the head.


And also that way the meditation does not cost you heart rate variability because the ability to have harmonic inclusiveness in the heart rate is not served by a sedentary lifestyle.

In terms of meditation, my personal experiences of intense kundalini experiences was brought on by the Gurdjieff sacred gymnastic and the breath work to some extent, so my life has not been so focused on how to find that so much as how to not let it burn me up. So I may not be just the perfect person to ask about how to meditate, but indeed the Heart Tuner, for example, does show the relationship of your breath to your heart music and that is a big indicator of when your body can embed in the training.

The essence of meditation is simple, you need to have a very long wave that can then embed short waves. To embed yourself in a long wave is the function of ritual and meditation, as is myosis and mytosis, embedding in a long wave. So that process of getting yourself phase aligned with very long waves is sometimes called rapt, or rapture, or raptor, where you have a vice like sort of grip that you feel electrically when you get really still. And that is a way to commune with the infinite.


The risk is that if you do that communion without coming back and bringing it into the world which is called grounding, and grounding is access to a fractal for psychologists or electricians. That if you come back without finally delivering that information youíve picked up by entering the stillness, it becomes fractionating, that the only way you avoid the hive mind is when you come back and individuate what youíve learned and find a way to share it practically.

Tony: Is there (are) a practical meditative technique you could share?

Dan: One simple technique where you can experience the spin path to the zero point the wave of collapse which produces fusion and embedding is called the Phi Breath, the Golden Mean Ratio Breath. And if you were to visualize a caduceus where you have a long wave, and then a shorter, and then a shorter, which is a spin path to a zero point.


The caduceus is the symbol of the medical profession. And if you were to do a breath based on that geometry, you take a very big breath, and then a smaller breath 0.61 as deep and as long, and a smaller breath, and then a tiny breath, you create a continuous spin path into stillness. And from the stillness you can enter the field charge.

Tony: Youíve talked about the Heart Tuner quite extensively, what are the other applications of the Heart Tuner?

Dan: The Heart Tuner, again at, is able to measure the coherence in EKG, EEG or life force of plants or trees, itís also able to measure electro-smog with an inductive probe, itís also able to measure the fire in the pineal with the capacitive probe.


The Heart Tuner itself is a 2 channel programmable pre-amplifier which dumps to very innovative computer software in the Heart Tuner environment which by using a second order power spectra called a Septrum is able to measure internal coherence in a way thatís never been done before.


So while people like the Heart Math people talk about coherence, they in fact cannot measure it, whereas my device actually measures the coherence in the heart. Whatís fun is when the heart is coherent, it literally appears to measure the kinesiological response so that the ability to have coherence in the heart in terms of a flashlight to a laser is directly related to finding a shareable wave of pure intent.


Itís kind of a lie detector for the body. The heart tuner is an incredibly powerful tool, and I say that not just as the inventor because itís simply the truth.

Tony: What is the one most important message which you would like to see go out there?

Dan: I think the one most important message Iíd like to see go out there has to do with the relationship of surviving compression, sometimes known as the rapture, or death, or solar maxima in being able to follow your bliss. Because the DNA, being a self-organizing magnetic shape-shifting worm, when it has implosion at the centre is able to become self-organizing, and self-steering electrically.


And that gives the ability to lucid dream, travel in time, survive death, and all the fun stuff. But if you havenít found a path which includes passion and bliss, then literally your DNA is not ignited and it costs you that tornado we call getting a soul. What that boils down to is the hygiene for bliss which in principles is a simple science replacing religion in that sense.


We donít need the fairy tales, the miracle worship, or the personality worship. We need the hygiene for bliss, we must be able to teach our children bliss, and ultimately groups, like soul groups, that form and do bliss process together, and fusion experience is then what enables soul groups to migrate and travel through the sun into stars. So it is survival related to be able to find your bliss and follow your passion. Thatís my message.