by Sarah



What follows is a session I recorded of Dr. Neruda on December 31, 1997. He gave permission for me to record his answers to my questions. This is the transcript of that session. This was one of five times I was able to tape-record our conversations.


I have preserved these transcripts precisely as they occurred. No editing was performed, and I've tried my best to include the exact words, phrasing, and grammar used by Dr. Neruda.

(It's recommended that you read the previous three interviews - Nš 1, Nš 2, Nš 3 - before reading this one.)


Sarah: As promised, one of the things I want to focus on in this interview is the Ancient Arrow site. From what you said the other day, the Ancient Arrow site was essentially stripped of its artifacts. Where are they now and what do you think the ACIO intends to do with them?"

Dr. Neruda: "As of the time of my defection, the site's antechamber and 23 sub-chambers were carefully measured, analyzed, and each of the artifacts were cataloged. All of the artifacts that could be taken from the 23 chambers were moved to the ACIO lab for rigorous testing. The initial hope was that they contained accessible technologies that could somehow accelerate the deployment schedule for BST (Blank Slate Technology or BST as some have called it is the ability of removing a thought from the thought process of a subject and replacing it with a passive thought). However, I think that expectation changed following the discovery of the 24th chamber."

Sarah: "You never really talked in any detail about the chambers before. What was so special about the 24th Chamber?"

Dr. Neruda: "What was interesting about the chambers -- apart from the artifacts they contained -- was that the site was as sterile as an operating room, except the 23rd chamber. Remember that these chambers protruded outward from a central corridor that spiraled up through solid rock. From the top of the 23rd chamber to the antechamber below was approximately 50 meters. We knew there were 24 chapters or segments on the optical disc, but we assumed that the antechamber -- even though it didn't have any artifacts -- was included. Thus we falsely assumed that the 24 chambers were accounted for."

Sarah: "They weren't?"

Dr. Neruda: "No. There was another chamber that had been hidden."

Sarah: "How?"

Dr. Neruda: "The 23rd chamber had a significant amount of rock debris on its floor. It had all the markings of being unfinished, as if the constructors had to leave suddenly or simply ran out of patience before they completed their mission. We invested a reasonable amount of time and analysis studying the walls and debris of the 23rd chamber, hoping to discern the methods of construction, but we never suspected that there was a hidden passageway beneath the debris on the floor of the chamber."

Sarah: "So, there was a trap door?"

Dr. Neruda: "Shortly before my defection, a trap door was discovered by some ACIO researchers who were conducting a form of x-ray photography of the interior of the site."

Sarah: "For what purpose?"

Dr. Neruda: "They were trying to determine if there were any structural deficiencies in the site that could cause instabilities for the site in the long-term. We had, in effect, broken the seal on this site and introduced a significant amount of stress to the structure. Fifteen, being the thorough person he is, wanted to be sure we hadn't inadvertently compromised the structural integrity of the site. He felt certain that the site's preservation was potentially critical."

Sarah: "Okay, so these x-rays showed a trap door to another chamber. How was it overlooked before? Was it completely hidden?"

Dr. Neruda: "Not really. We had been told to leave all the chambers as we had found them -- other than to remove the artifacts and catalog everything we found. What we didn't realize was that the six inches of rock chips on the floor of the 23rd chamber concealed a vertical passageway."

Sarah: "It went straight down?"

Dr. Neruda: "Correct. It dropped nearly 50 meters . . ."

Sarah: "But I thought the antechamber was 50 meters underneath the 23rd chamber."

Dr. Neruda: "It is, but not directly underneath. The 24th chamber is only separated by four meters from the nearest wall of the antechamber."

Sarah: "Was there a passageway between the two, or was the only entrance from the 23rd chamber?"

Dr. Neruda: "The only entrance was from the 23rd chamber, which made it near-impossible to get to."

Sarah: "Why?"

Dr. Neruda: "Because the passageway was cut too small for an adult body, and it was a long distance to traverse."

Sarah: "With all your technology, couldn't you have made it wider?"

Dr. Neruda: "It was an alternative, but Fifteen didn't feel it was warranted."

Sarah: "Why not? It seems like a pretty important discovery -- maybe the key to the whole site."

Dr. Neruda: "The ACIO had technologies that allowed us to drop cameras down the passageway and photograph the entire chamber remotely."

Sarah: "What did you see?"

Dr. Neruda: "It was the largest of the 24 chambers -- in all dimensions. Its wall painting was the largest, and like the 23rd chamber, was oriented horizontally instead of vertically. There was a technology artifact that we removed from the chamber that, as far as I know, is, like all the others, inaccessible to the ACIO probes."


Sarah: "Other than the chamber being larger in scale, were there any other differences?"

 Dr. Neruda: "It was very similar to the 23rd chamber in the sense that it was also unfinished in appearance, but it was about three times as large in volume. There were a series of glyphs incised on the wall opposite the painting that were organized in seven groups of five characters."


series of glyphs in chamber 23

Sarah: "I know you showed me photographs of the chamber paintings, did I see this one?"

Dr. Neruda: "No."

Sarah: "What's it look like?"

Dr. Neruda: "It's the most abstract and complex of the collection, and consequently, hard to describe. Like all the chamber paintings, we invested considerable effort and time to decode the symbols and analyze the content of the painting, but we only had speculation as to its real purpose."

Sarah: "Any hypothesis on why the 24th chamber was hidden?"

Dr. Neruda: "Remember that the site was interpreted by most within the Labyrinth Group as being loosely based on our human genome . . . "

Sarah: "Because of the helix shape?"

Dr. Neruda: "That and the fact there were 23 chambers -- the precise number of chromosomes -- or pairs of chromosomes in a normal human cell. These factors, along with some of the detail contained within the chamber paintings and philosophical text we decoded, led us to conclude that the site was designed to tell a story about the human genome."

Sarah: "Okay, but why was the 24th chamber hidden and how does that relate to the human genome?"

Dr. Neruda: "I don't know with certainty, but remember that the 23rd chromosome determines the sex of the individual. The wall painting from the 23rd chamber is the only painting that shows -- albeit abstractly -- the genitalia of both a man and a woman. We assumed that this was deliberate. The fact that the 23rd chamber was unfinished suggested that the 23rd chromosome was also somehow unfinished, implying that there may be some other function of the sex gene that has not been completed as yet."

Sarah: "But isn't the entire genome unfinished? I remember reading that 95% of the genome is unused. Isn't that true?"

Dr. Neruda: "It's true that the instructions contained within the genes are mostly unused, but the genes themselves, as far as their instruction set, are not incomplete so far as we know. There are, of course, genetic mutations that occur from time-to-time, but again these are not states of incompletion so much as spontaneous adaptation to genetic interfusion."

Sarah: "Then what's the case with the 24th chamber? Are there instances when some people have 24 chromosomes?"

Dr. Neruda: "First, it's 23 pairs of chromosomes, and yes, there are people who have an extra chromosome, but it's generally not desirable, and is often lethal. In our research, we've never seen 24 pairs of chromosomes in a healthy, normal human."

Sarah: "But isn't it possible that it's not about pairs of chromosomes? There aren't any pairs of chambers, so maybe they're talking about 24 chromosomes period."

Dr. Neruda: "This possibility was certainly explored."

Sarah: "And ...?"

Dr. Neruda: "There was no reliable evidence, so the theory was discounted."

Sarah: "So nothing human has 24 chromosomes or 24 pairs of chromosomes? Why would the WingMakers construct something so obviously genetic in its shape and make an error like this?"

Dr. Neruda: "No one within the Labyrinth Group believed there was an error. Chimpanzees, orangutans, and gorillas possess 24 pairs of chromosomes."

Sarah: "Apes?"

Dr. Neruda: "Any molecular biologist will tell you that our genome is a 98% match of the chimpanzee."

Sarah: "Are you suggesting that the WingMakers produced this site in homage to the chimp?"

Dr. Neruda: "No. I'm simply relating the truth. Until 1955 scientists believed that humans had 24 pairs of chromosomes just as the chimpanzee or gorilla, but then it was discovered that somewhere in time, humans fused two chromosomes into one... "

Sarah: "And how does this all relate to the discovery of the 24th chamber?"

Dr. Neruda: "It probably doesn't. The human genome is like a set of encyclopedias with 23 volumes. It's quite possible that the 24th chamber, in this case, is the equivalent of the index or navigation volume."

Sarah: "But it's not visible like the other 23 chromosomes?"

Dr. Neruda: "We thought there was significance in the fact that the 24th chamber was hidden, and was only connected by a narrow, vertical passage to the 23rd. It's possible, in theory, that the 24th chromosome isn't a molecular-based gene repository. There may be a genetic mutation that is being foreshadowed in our future, or the 24th chamber is a metaphor for a new functionality of the human species that is -- as yet -- dormant or non-coded."

Sarah: "So, what does Fifteen think it all means?"

Dr. Neruda: "ZEMI had done an exhaustive search of the variables, and I believe Fifteen had more or less accepted its most probable alternative, that the 23rd chromosome was destined to mutate and create or catalyze the creation of a 24th chromosome that would act as a navigation system or index for future geneticists."

Sarah: "And ZEMI deduced all of this from a single painting?"

Dr. Neruda: "ZEMI had 62 different analyses of the 24th chamber painting, and each of them had probabilities of over 40%. This is unheard of unless an object is coded in sufficient complexity, and this coding is consistently applied to produce a web effect of possibilities. This painting, along with the glyphs on the opposite wall, achieved that end. The ACIO calls this phenomenon, Complexity Interlocks, with factors on a scale of zero to one hundred. If an object or event has a CI of 15, it's considered a coded object. The artifacts of the 24th chamber had the highest CI of all the chambers: 94.6. To put it into perspective, the next highest chamber, chamber six, had a CI of 56.3"

Sarah: "Why is that important?"

Dr. Neruda: "Because Fifteen looked at the 24th chamber as the key to understanding the Ancient Arrow site. ZEMI's analysis was very specific, much more so than I'm able to relate in this conversation."

Sarah: "Can you give me an example of how ZEMI determines this CI index?"

Dr. Neruda: "The painting or object is scanned and reduced to its digital components. Color, scale, position, shape, and repetition are all established and analyzed. For example, one of the abstract figures in the 24th chamber painting appears to be floating upside down, and happens to have 23 stars within its mid-section. ZEMI would associate significance to this, and this would become a thread of the web effect. ZEMI would continue to create these threads, looking for a consistent pattern. If a pattern emerges with sufficient mathematical coherence and context, it deduces that the object is designed for a purpose."

Sarah: "In other words, a higher CI indicates a higher purpose?"

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, but especially if the distinction is significant as in the case of the 24th chamber."

Sarah: "If all these pieces are fit together, the picture that emerges is that the Ancient Arrow site was created as a metaphor of the human genome, and that it's predicting a mutation that will produce a 24th chromosome, which leads us right back to our hairy cousins. Wouldn't this be devolution?"

Dr. Neruda: "No."

Sarah: "Why not?"

Dr. Neruda: "The molecular environment of the 23rd chromosome is the most antagonistic and dynamic of all the human chromosomes. This makes it a cauldron for potential mutation. Molecular and evolutionary biologists are only now beginning to recognize this inherent reality of the 23rd chromosome.

"ZEMI's analysis was that the 24th chamber painting was concerned not with our sexual identity, as in the case of the 23rd chromosome, but our spiritual identity."

Sarah: "How so?"

Dr. Neruda: "It would take me at least twenty minutes to explain the rationale. Do you want me to proceed?"

Sarah: "Can you give me a summary?"

Dr. Neruda: "I'll try.

"There are several connections between the 23rd and 24th chambers; the most notable being that the 24th chamber is only accessible from the 23rd chamber. This suggests that the 24th exists as a result of the behaviors and conditions of the 23rd. In a sense, the tunnel connecting the two chambers is a birth canal, and the 24th chamber is the baby.

"Since the 23rd is the sex chromosome, that is, it determines the sexual and physical identity of the individual, its purpose is largely binary. It's quite logical to conclude that if it were to give birth to a new chromosome, it may have something to do with our spiritual identity, particularly in light of all the other information we have about the Central Race."

Sarah: "I get the feeling that you believe this."

Dr. Neruda: "I think it's a viable hypothesis, but the exact purpose of the Ancient Arrow site is yet to be determined with high confidence."

Sarah: “Are there any other sites similar to the Ancient Arrow site that the ACIO got involved in?”

Dr. Neruda: “No, nothing of this magnitude, but the ACIO involves itself in anything anomalous that may have ET influence.”

Sarah: “Can you give me an example?”

Dr. Neruda: “There was an underground installation of engraved stones found in Peru in the mid-1960s. Some of the circumstances regarding this site are similar.”

Sarah: “How so?”

Dr. Neruda: “It was an underground installation of considerable complexity and it contained tens of thousands of stones that had been intricately engraved with pictographs that depicted a vast historical record of earth and a pre-historical culture, all carved on a stone known as andesite.

Sarah: “And was this site also kept off the record?”

Dr. Neruda: “No, quite the contrary, but it was targeted with heavy disinformation and ultimately discredited by academic institutions that no doubt felt threatened by the revelation.”

Sarah: “I still don’t see how a government organization like the ACIO can operate behind the scenes and our own elected officials be completely unaware of both its existence and agenda.”

Dr. Neruda: “Not all of your elected officials are unaware of the ACIO, but you’re right about one thing: they do not know its true objectives.”

Sarah: “So who knows and who doesn’t?”

Dr. Neruda: “It’s not such a simple thing to provide you with a list of names. Those who know, and are elected officials, form a very short list—”

Sarah: “How short?”

Dr. Neruda: “I would prefer not to say at this time, only that it is less than ten in number.

“The world body politic is not divided into republicans and democrats or liberal and conservative parties. They are divided into a stratification of knowledge and vital intelligence. The financial oligarchy of the secret network I mentioned last week possesses superior knowledge, some of which it shares with the military force and some of which it shares with the Isolationist forces.

These three forces are the principal way the world is organizing itself, and the presumed alpha organization is the Incunabula because they control a dominant share of the world’s money supply and hard assets.”

Sarah: Okay, stop a moment because I did some research since our interview Saturday, and learned a little bit about the organization called the Illuminati. Is this the same organization you’re now referring to as the Incunabula?”

Dr. Neruda: “No. The Illuminati is part of the secret network, but it’s not the alpha organization. The Illuminati is affiliated with other blueblood organizations, mostly originating from European roots, but its goals and objectives are not aligned to the Incunabula.”

Sarah: “In what way, because from my reading it seemed like it was the secret network you were referring to.”

Dr. Neruda: “First, you need to understand that the secret network, as I was referring to, is loosely assembled and not well aligned because of competing agendas. Nonetheless, there is a sense of camaraderie between some of the more powerful groups mostly because they share an elite status in business, academia, or government.

“However, these groups are generally designed to help its members build greater wealth and influence through the members’ network of business and government contacts. It is somewhat comparable to a high-powered networking organization.”

Sarah: “Are you sure we’re talking about the same organization?”

Dr. Neruda: “There are many stories about the Illuminati that are based more on legend than evidence. Too many conspiratorial objectives are credited to them, and they are not organized in this way. Their leadership is too visible and carefully scrutinized by the media. When you have this condition, you can, in most instances, dispel the notion that global, conspiratorial objectives are in the works.”


Sarah: “What about the occult references to the Illuminati? Are they true?”

Dr. Neruda: “The supposed leaders of the Illuminati are not occultists or Satan worshippers as they are sometimes accused. Again, this is conspiracy theory run amok, usually by those who seek to define enemies that can embody Lucifer, which in their mind is synonymous with the occult. The Illuminati, while it exists as an elite organization, is made up of men and women that do not conform to one belief system. The spiritual beliefs of their members are not used as criteria to acquire membership. What’s important is a member’s personal network of contacts.”

Sarah: “But don’t they have a tremendous influence on politics?”

Dr. Neruda: “Yes, they have influence, as do the Masons, and Skull and Bones, and twenty-seven other organizations that make up this loose-knit network of the elite, but the people who control the master plan are not directly affiliated with any one of these thirty organizations.

“The reality is that these organizations really operate in one of three forces that do have alignment under the controlling hand of the Incunabula.”

Sarah: “So you’re saying that within these three forces the world’s political stage is organized, and the group with the most money also has the best knowledge and basically controls the other two groups?”


Dr. Neruda:The Incunabula doesn’t dictate to the other two forces. It strategically releases information that lures the two forces in the direction it wants them to go.

“You can look at these three forces as part of an equilateral triangle, with the Incunabula at the apex, and the Global Military Force at one base and the Isolationist Force at the other. This is the real structure of global power.”

Sarah: “I’m not clear about the different objectives of these three forces.”


Dr. Neruda: “The Incunabula is concerned with the globalization of monetary channels and vital supplies like petroleum and natural gas; the Military Force is concerned with spreading and preserving democratization throughout the globe, and in so doing, protecting the self-interests of the dominant superpowers of America and Western Europe; and the Isolationist Force is focused on industry and wealth building for its citizens at the state level.”

Sarah: “But how does the Incunabula lure these other two forces to do its bidding? Can you give me an example?”

Dr. Neruda: “Why do you think Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait?”

Sarah: “To grab its oil wells and make a lot of money.”

Dr. Neruda: “On the surface that is close to the truth. Following the Iran-Iraq War, Saddam had depleted a good deal of his country’s wealth, and to be sure, he was interested in the wealth production of Kuwait, but he also knew that his military was not designed to invade and annex countries, and he was aware that the superpowers would protect their interests in Kuwait.

“Saddam had a real dilemma, he had upwards of a million soldiers that were without jobs after the Iran-Iraq War and there was no place within Iraq’s broader economy to absorb these men. The Military Force was aware of Saddam’s dilemma, and, through a consistent disinformation campaign by the Military Force, Saddam was led to believe that he would be allowed to invade Kuwait without superpower retaliation.

“There are high level operatives within the Military Force that are also the eyes and ears of the Incunabula. It was well understood that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction that it had developed during the course of its war with Iran. The Military Force saw this as a destabilizing element of its long-term policy to bring democracy – American-style – to the oil-producing region.

“The Incunabula does not have control of the Middle East oil. It is the only vital asset in which they do not exercise prime authority. Saddam Hussein was seduced by disinformation to attack Kuwait so that the Military Force could – with the whole world looking on – dismantle Iraq’s defenses. This was a staged event of global impact exercised by the Incunabula and carried out by the Military Force completely unaware that they were being lured into this conflict in the same way as Iraq.”

Sarah: “And all because some elite trillionaires want to control the world’s oil supply?”

Dr. Neruda: “It’s much more complex than that, though that is a part of the equation. I’m not sure how much you want me to go into it.”

Sarah: “It’s hard to stop after you drop this revelation on me. Where is this all headed… I mean what is the end-goal of the Incunabula?”

Dr. Neruda: “Do you mean in the context of the Middle East?”

Sarah: “Yes.”

Dr. Neruda: “They want to control crude oil production. They want to exercise authority over this critical asset that is so fundamental to shaping world economies. They have controls over refining and the distribution of end products, but they lack control over the production, particularly in the Middle East. This is the fundamental goal, but it’s surrounded by the tributary objectives of bringing a Western culture to the region and slowly, but surely, homogenizing the world’s culture. They want this global culture as a framework in which to create global regulation.”

Sarah: “And how long will this take… assuming they’re successful?”

Dr. Neruda: “From the perspective of the ACIO, it has a probability of occurrence no more than 35% within the next 10 years and jumps to a 60% probability in 20 years. Thereafter, it becomes more probable with each passing decade, until it reaches near-certainty by the year 2060.”

Sarah: “And when you say ‘global regulation’, what do you mean?”

Dr. Neruda: “The ability to regulate the vital resources of the planet as a singular, global political body.”

Sarah: “What makes this such a critical goal of the Incunabula?”

Dr. Neruda: “The diminishing oil and natural gas supplies. These are non-renewable energy sources, and what required a billion years to create 3.2 trillion barrels of useable oil has taken 110 years to reduce to 1.8 trillion barrels. The planet’s oil supply is its economic lifeblood. As this diminishes, so does the economic system in which the world’s people live. As the economic conditions erode, instability arises, and if left unchecked, chaos ensues.”

Sarah: “Again you’re saying that this is all about oil?”

Dr. Neruda: “Try to understand that to me it’s astounding that this isn’t obvious. Anyone who knows the condition of the world’s oil supply can perform simple extrapolations and conclude that the world is approximately fifty years away from oil depletion, and that assumes you use the more optimistic analyses. On the pessimistic side, it could be as little as twenty-five years.”

Sarah: “How can that be? I don’t recall anything being said about this in the media. I would think this would be a huge story if it were that obvious and that ominous.”

Dr. Neruda: “There are many versions of this story that circulate in the media, but they never quite capture the attention of the mass media and the masses because they deal with the distant future – a topic not held in high regard by citizens in love with their Western lifestyles. Nevertheless, this future is precisely where the Incunabula place their focus because this is what determines the tactics of the present day.

“The depletion of the world’s oil supply, coupled to the growth in human population, is the dominant influence that is shaping the policies of the Incunabula and its timetable.”

Sarah: “So the agenda of the Incunabula is to control the diminishing oil supply in order to do what?”

Dr. Neruda: “At the highest levels of the Incunabula, the planning horizons are typically twenty to one hundred years, depending on the issue. They are well aware that as the oil supplies diminish, oil will become increasingly more difficult to extract from the planet’s reservoirs, and consequently, require at minimum, a thirty percent delta in refining costs. This will have a profound effect on price, which can have the effect of producing a persistent recession in the world’s economy.”

“The planners of the Incunabula believe that by consolidating control of the oil supply and its distribution it is the best way to impose rationing at a global level without setting off Armageddon.”

Sarah: “It’s really that serious?”

Dr. Neruda: “I don’t mean to sound like an alarmist, but this is the fundamental problem that the world must address in the 21st century. The brightest minds of our planet are well aware of this and have known this for twenty years or more.”

Sarah: “Why then aren’t the leaders of the world, and the brightest minds, working on alternative energy sources?”

Dr. Neruda: “In some instances they are. There’re several alternative energy sources that are under consideration – some are not even released to the public at this time because they stem from technologies that also carry great potential as weapons.

“But the bigger issue is how to change the energy system of our modern-day civilization from petroleum to a new energy source, or perhaps to change the manner in which we live – in other words, our oil dependent lifestyle.”

Sarah: “Why is that such a big deal? I would think that as the world wakes up to the reality of dwindling oil supplies it would be very receptive to a new energy source.”

Dr. Neruda: “Have you ever heard the quote by Machiavelli about the difficulty of changing a system?”

Sarah: “I don’t think so.”

Dr. Neruda: “He wrote, ‘There is nothing more difficult to plan, more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to manage than the creation of a new system. For the initiator has the enmity of all who would profit by the preservation of the old system and merely lukewarm defenders in those who would gain by the new one’.”

Sarah: “Okay, so this requires a lot of preparation and planning, and probably persuasion. But what choices do we have?”

Dr. Neruda: “None. This is the realism of the next fifty years.”

Sarah: “I presume the Incunabula plan to orchestrate this change of systems. Am I right on that?”

Dr. Neruda: “Yes. As I said earlier, they believe the global regulation of energy resources and the ability to manage population growth are the convergent issues of our time that – if managed properly – can avert Armageddon.”

Sarah: “You’ve said that word twice tonight – Armageddon. What do you mean by that? Are you talking about World War III?”

Dr. Neruda: “Armageddon is defined by the ACIO as the chaos of humanity. It is the time when humanity plunges into chaos and the interfaces of global commerce, communication, and diplomacy are destroyed in favor of national self-preservation. If this were to happen, weapons of unusual power could be used to destroy thirty percent or more of the human population. This is the definition that we don’t like to talk about, but it’s well known within the ACIO as a possibility in the 21st century.”

Sarah: “So I assume you have your probability forecasts for this as well. Right?”

Dr. Neruda: “Yes.”

Sarah: “And what are they, dare I ask?”

Dr. Neruda: “I’d prefer not to say. They aren’t really relevant anyway because they fluctuate based on world events.”

Sarah: “But this is what the Incunabula’s planners are trying to steer clear of?”

Dr. Neruda: “Yes. This consumes their agenda more than any other issue.”

Sarah: “What other organizations are consumed by this agenda?”

Dr. Neruda: “There are none.”

Sarah: “What?”

Dr. Neruda: “This agenda is unique to the Incunabula because they’re the only organization that is focused squarely on averting this particular crisis condition based on the convergence criteria I stated earlier.”

Sarah: “You mean they’re the only organization that’s worried about Armageddon as it relates to dwindling oil supplies and population increases?”

Dr. Neruda: “Yes.”

Sarah: “But you’re not telling me that other organizations aren’t worried about World War III or Armageddon, how ever you define it. Right?”

Dr. Neruda: “Every nation’s leadership is concerned about these issues, but it’s by no means the focus of their agenda. It is a small, compartmentalized component of their agenda.

“This is precisely why Fifteen is involved with the Incunabula’s planners, the threats to the human race are both real and persistent, and with each passing decade the conditions are only growing more fertile for fragmentation and chaos – the very kind you would observe in tribal warfare. There is no fundamental difference.”

Sarah: “And the leaders of the Military Force know about this objective?”

Dr. Neruda: “No. They have their own agenda, which is related, but quite different as well. They don’t aspire to regulate oil production; they intend to defend its availability and influence its price as a result. They’re not concerned with globalization as it relates to economic or cultural platforms, but rather, they’re concerned with exporting democracy in order to ensure stabilization in the region, and eradicate instability in the form of terrorists and dictators alike.”

Sarah: “But that seems at odds with everything I’ve heard about the military.”

Dr. Neruda: “In what way?”

Sarah: “You make it sound as though the Military Force is trying to bring stability or peace, when everything I’ve ever read implies that the military feeds off of conflict and instability. If the world is at peace, then the military becomes a simple police force, its power is reduced and its budgets are slashed.”

Dr. Neruda: “I understand your question. However, the Military Force is not the same thing as the military. While it is very pro-military, it operates in a longer planning horizon than military personnel. The Military Force is made up of high-level politicians, business people, intelligence members, academics, think tanks, and so on. Its members are from the United Kingdom, America, Germany, Canada, Australia, Israel, and many other countries. Its cohesion, as a group, is not so much a function of formal structure and meetings, but rather it’s by publishing classified papers that are shared among its elite members. These papers define the platform, goals, long-term objectives, and essentially map out the strategy and tactics by which the Military Force intends to execute its plan.

“The Military Force is working on hybrid defensive and offensive weapons that relate to space, bio-weapons, the Internet, and other environments that are as yet not viewed as battlefield arenas. They would contend that R & D budgets should be increased in order to develop these new weapons in order to secure the rights of free people to live without fear of preemptive attack. They intend to remove this reality from the face of the earth and at the same time, propagate democracy.”

Sarah: “But isn’t this a noble goal?”

Dr. Neruda: “Their goals are not necessarily misguided, but their methods to achieve these goals are. This is all about projecting power, and, as a consequence, dictating the prevailing political platform by which the world achieves peace. It is enforced peace. It is peace through power and manipulation.”

Sarah: “But it’s still peace and it’s still democracy. It’s certainly better than the alternative of wars and anarchy or dictatorship.”

Dr. Neruda: “There are other means to achieve the same end.”

Sarah: “You said that the budget for military spending would only increase over time if the Military Force has its way. How would that happen amidst world peace?”

Dr. Neruda: “New threats will be determined that will create this need even though our countries of the world are at peace.”

Sarah: “Are you talking about ETs again?”

Dr. Neruda: “Among other things. China will likely be the last island of opposition that the wave of democracy will land upon, but when it does, the Military Force desires to have unique weapons at its disposal in order to swiftly bring the changes it seeks. Bio-weapons will likely be the choice”

Sarah: “How is that possible when the U.S. has banned bio-weapons?”

Dr. Neruda: “Unfortunately the discoveries in the human genome are too compelling for the Military Force to ignore as it pertains to bio-weapons development. Research is already underway, and has been for two years, to develop bio-weapons that target certain genomes indicative of a specific race.”

Sarah: “Like Chinese?”

Dr. Neruda: “Yes, but it doesn’t mean the weapon would ever be deployed. It would simply be a known capability of the Military Force and that alone would make the change of regime irresistible.”

Sarah: “I have to stop here and make a confession. Part of me wants to cry when I hear this and bury my head in a pillow, and part of me wants to keep asking more questions. I’m really torn on this one… I don’t think I want to talk about this anymore. Okay?

Dr. Neruda: “I’m only answering the questions you ask of me as honestly as I can.”

Sarah: “I know, and I’m not complaining about you or your answers really. I just needed to say what I was feeling.”

Dr. Neruda: “I understand.”

Sarah: “Do you want to take a break and stretch your legs?”

Dr. Neruda: “I’m fine, but if you want one, I’ll be happy to take a stretch.”

Sarah: “No, I’m fine…

“Tell me more about the Isolationist Force. What’s their story in all of this?”

Dr. Neruda: “Again, I don’t want you to think that the Military and Isolationist Forces are formal groups that have memberships and party platforms. They are informal, tacit coalitions at most, and they operate through the well-placed leadership of Incunabula operatives. Also, it is important to remember that they’re all part of the triad of leadership that the Incunabula have forged over the last fifty-seven years.

“In the case of the Isolationist Force, it’s the least organized of the three forces. It’s designed to spur economic policies and activities that generate wealth for the elite class throughout the world. As a force it is concerned with domestic state issues that drive economic growth and vitality. Its focus is to influence local, state and national governments to facilitate commerce.”

Sarah: “Am I correct in thinking that Republicans are more affiliated with the Isolationist Force?”

Dr. Neruda: “No. These three forces are not affiliated with any party or political organization. Someone can be aligned with both the Military and Isolationist Force and not have any conflict doing so. They are not antagonistic. They’re compatible forces. Also, these forces are not exclusively American. They are global forces – albeit with dominance from American and European interests, but they’re not party affiliations like democrats and republicans, nor are they state-sponsored in any way.”

Sarah: “If the oil production is in the hands of the Incunabula, what will happen to the Arab state regimes that currently hold this power?”

Dr. Neruda: “It depends on the regime. The Incunabula is expert at influence through financial services and legal maneuvering. They will assert their influence slowly, gradually, and in a manner that will catch the royal families and cartel by surprise. Their patience is unmatched, and they operate on multiple levels of influence, which is why they win nearly every time.

“Even at the present time many of the royal families exert influence in domestic affairs, but not oil production. They reap the rewards of the oil financially, but others within their regimes are truly operating the production and interacting with the cartel, developing the core relationships of trust and influence. These are the ones that the Incunabula bring into their fold, and slowly win over as operatives in their plan. The Military Force, at the appropriate timetable, will overturn the regimes in conflict with the plan, and those regimes that are friendly, will be allowed to retain their domestic presence and influence. These are carefully orchestrated events.”

Sarah: “And once the Incunabula has control over oil production, what then?”

Dr. Neruda: “The dismantling of hard currency. The Incunabula desires to have an electronic currency because it tracks everything and enables a more thorough analytical insight into the affairs of the individual.”

Sarah: “So what do they want to do with all this information?”

Dr. Neruda: “They want to observe patterns and manipulate events in order to protect their dominance as a leadership body, and, as I said earlier, they want to define the new systems and manage system change. Once this dominance is perceived as reaching a critical mass, the Incunabula plans to create a global body of governance that brings stability to Earth and a set of policies that aid humanity at large.”

Sarah: “Again you’re telling me that their goal is to help humanity, but I find it hard to believe.”

Dr. Neruda: “In a way it is the only way they can retain power. If they concentrate wealth and services too much, they will lose control of the population they seek to govern. Rebellion is never far away when empty stomachs grumble in unison.”

Sarah: “How will they dismantle our hard currency?”

Dr. Neruda: “There will be a gradual de-valuation of the stock markets worldwide. Americans in particular have become accustomed to easy money production within the stock markets, as well as lavish lifestyles. This will not be permitted to continue indefinitely. Recessions will occur in waves until the value of currency is called into question. This will begin in third world countries first, and as these become the initial victims of feeble economic policies, the Incunabula will essentially force these countries to sell their assets at rock bottom prices in return for helping them out of economic crisis.

“In the best of times, the world economy is a fragile patchwork of economic systems that run at different rates without a smooth interface or a macro system in which to operate. In the worst of times, it is a house of cards vulnerable to the faintest of winds. Hard currency and the monetary system that supports it will become a scapegoat of the economic slowdown, and electronic currency will increasingly become the solution to the general malaise of the global economy.”

Sarah: “I’m not an economist so I don’t even know what questions to ask, but it leaves me with a queasy feeling in my gut. I get the feeling that there’s only one real power in the world and it’s the Incunabula, and we’re all just puppets of this elite group of moneymen. Isn’t that pretty much the subtext of all your comments here?”

Dr. Neruda: “No, not at all, but I can understand how you arrive at that conclusion given that we’ve been focused on the Triad of Power, or TOP, as we refer to it within the Labyrinth Group. TOP is a reality on earth, and it probably will be for many generations to come, and it’s certainly in the best position to dominate world affairs and development, but there are other powers that can intervene and bring fresh opportunity to the world’s people.”

Sarah: “Like religious powers?”

Dr. Neruda: “Yes, that’s one, though they will never rival the Incunabula in terms of impacting on world affairs.”

Sarah: “So who’re you talking about? Give me some names or examples.”

Dr. Neruda: “The rise of personal computers and the Internet was never intended to occur according to the Incunabula. It was one of the developments that genuinely surprised the planners within the Incunabula and proved to be a very vexing issue for nearly a decade. Computing power was supposed to remain in the hands of the elite. The Internet grew organically and at a pace that no one thought possible, and it caught the Incunabula completely off guard.”

Sarah: “So technology is a power that frustrated the plans of the Incunabula?”

Dr. Neruda: “It’s one example.”

Sarah: “I imagine the ACIO is another?”

Dr. Neruda: “The single greatest weakness of the Incunabula is its lack of scientific expertise within the ranks of its leadership. While it has technical and scientific members in special projects within the Global Military Industrial Complex, they are not leaders, and it is the leadership of the Incunabula that establishes its agenda.”

Sarah: “But I thought you said that Fifteen was part of the Incunabula.”

Dr. Neruda: “Yes, but the ACIO is simply seen as a resource to the Incunabula. Fifteen is perceived as an anarchist whose vision could never be aligned with the leadership of the Incunabula. They don’t even identify with his vision.”

Sarah: “If the Incunabula relies so heavily on ACIO technology, and they need scientific leadership, why don’t they replace Fifteen and place someone they can control better?”

Dr. eruda: “They originally tried to have a Director who would be more compliant, but it didn’t succeed.”

Sarah: “How do you mean that?”

Dr. Neruda: “One of the first Directors of the ACIO was a member of the Incunabula’s Military Force and was very much an insider in terms of working with some of its higher ranking leaders, especially in America.”

Sarah: “Can you disclose his name?”

Dr. Neruda: “Vannevar Bush.”

Sarah: “How do you spell his name?”

Dr. Neruda (Spelling it out.)

Sarah: “Is he related to President George Bush?”

Dr. Neruda: “No.”

Sarah: “So he ran the ACIO when it was still in its infancy?”

Dr. Neruda: “Yes.”

Sarah: “What happened to him?”

Dr. Neruda: “He was too visible, and it was rightly feared that he would not be able to retain secrecy.”

Sarah: “Why?”

Dr. Neruda: “Dr. Bush was a gifted individual who exercised both technical vision and leadership skills. He had access to the leadership of the government and the Incunabula. He could manage a large team of scientists and engineers as well as anyone could. He essentially built the infrastructure for military research, but his celebrity status was troublesome to the founders of the Incunabula.”

Sarah: “Give me a sense of the timetable because I've got to admit I’ve never heard of this man.”

Dr. Neruda: “It was right near the end of World War II that Dr. Bush was asked to head up a team of research scientists that had been assembled from the NDRC and SPL to reverse-engineer a recovered alien spacecraft that had been recovered in 1940 off the coast of Florida. These were actually top scientists from the newly formed ACIO. The spacecraft had been placed in cold storage because of World War II. As the war ended, Bush became privy to this discovery through his network and offered his leadership to the project. As I understand it, he was just coming off the Manhattan Project when this opportunity presented itself.”

Sarah: “So he was considered a security risk and that ended his tenure at the ACIO?”

Dr. Neruda: “Yes.

“This reverse-engineering project was held in the highest possible secrecy. Dr. Bush ran the operation within the SPL through special funding from the OSS, which was the forerunner of the CIA. However, after a year’s time, little progress was made and there were rumors attributed to Bush that alien spacecraft consumed his agenda.

“Bush reported directly to James Forrestal, who at the time was heading up the Navy, but shortly thereafter became the first Secretary of Defense. Truman was president.

“The spacecraft that had been recovered was sufficiently intact to conduct reverse-engineering studies on its propulsion system, which was the most critical knowledge that Forrestal hoped to extract from the project.”

Sarah: “What year are we talking?”

Dr. Neruda: “This would have been between 1945 and 1946.”

Sarah: “So what happened?”

Dr. Neruda: “Bear in mind that my knowledge of these events is based on my study of the ACIO archive. I wasn’t personally involved in any of these happenings, so I’m not vouching for their absolute accuracy.”

Sarah: “Understood.”

Dr. Neruda: “Dr. Bush was asked to replicate the propulsion system of the recovered craft in 12 months, and was given the resources of the ACIO in order to do so.”

Sarah: “And did he succeed?”

Dr. Neruda: “Only partially. The electromagnetic fields were not fully replicated in terms of their sustained intensity levels in metals because of electron drift, which, and I’m struggling to keep this in layperson’s terms, were the primary reason it failed. Nonetheless, there were prototypes built that replicated aspects of the alien craft’s propulsion system, and these were sufficient to galvanize funding and support for the ACIO.”

Sarah: “Then why didn’t Dr. Bush join the ACIO?”

Dr. Neruda: “He knew it would require that he go underground and essentially become anonymous. He didn’t want anonymity because he was a prodigious inventor and liked the limelight accorded him from government officials as well as the scientific community at large. Also, I don’t think the head of the OSS thought his mental capabilities were sufficient to the task. Bush was a great organizer of talent, but he lacked the commanding intellect in physics to lead the ACIO as it was envisioned in those days.”

Sarah: “How many people knew about this project?”

Dr. Neruda: “I’m not sure. Perhaps five or six knew the total scope of the project and another fifty knew elements of the project. It was, as I said before, a very well guarded secret.”

Sarah: “How do you keep something like this a secret?”

Dr. Neruda: “There are entire departments within our government that have responsibility for this. It’s a very well engineered process that includes legal contracts, clear penalty reminders, and known deterrence factors that include very invasive technologies. In the worst case, if vital information was disclosed, a different but related department would step in that would masterfully spread disinformation. It was, and still is, virtually impossible to bring this information to the public.”

Sarah: “They had invasive technologies even in 1945?”

Dr. Neruda: “Yes. While the invasive technologies were more crudely applied, they were certainly effective. There was nothing more vilified in these undisclosed organizations than traitors. The entire organizational culture was designed to reward loyalty and severely punish disloyalty in any form.”

Sarah: “I want to switch topics for a moment. It seems that we’re in a new stage of world peace and economic stability, but when I hear you talk, it seems that this just isn’t possible given the nature of the Incunabula and the triad of power that you were talking about earlier. Is this true?”

Dr. Neruda: “It is an illusion. There may be lulls in the movements of war, but look at the past one hundred years. Isn’t it an assemblage of wars?”

Sarah: “And all because war feeds the triad of power as you call it?”

Dr. Neruda: “No. There are forces that truly believe in good and evil. In their view, countries – like people – are essentially cast into three categories: good, neutral, and evil. Those that are good must dominate the world political structures and ensure that those that are evil are identified and reduced to a non-threat status.”

Sarah: “But the cold war is over, right? The Soviet Union is no more, and what’s left of it seems more or less friendly to the interests of the free world. Isn’t this true?”

Dr. Neruda: “When power is concentrated in a single person, and that country or organization develops long range missile technology, it immediately becomes a target for concern within the intelligence community.”

Sarah: “And am I correct in assuming that the intelligence community you’re referring to is global and managed by the Incunabula?”

Dr. Neruda: “Yes, but it is not formally managed by the Incunabula.”

Sarah: “I understand, but the results are the same, right?”

Dr. Neruda: “Yes.”

Sarah: “I apologize for the interruption.”

Dr. Neruda: “The perceived enemy is missile technology in the hands of a concentrated power. There are many, many countries that have this technology so it ensures distrust. Organizations like the U.N. (United Nations) are not sufficiently empowered to deal with these threats, so multilateral coalitions are developed between nations to deal with the perceived threats, often completely undisclosed to the public.

“Iraq is a perfect example. North Korea is another, but it lacks the strategic geography to place it on the top of the list. So, geography also plays a central role in this assessment.”

Sarah: “So essentially the world is coalescing into three camps. I understand that, but who determines who is evil, neutral, and good? I mean isn’t this a terribly subjective call?”

Dr. Neruda: “Whoever exerts the greatest global leadership in terms of projecting military force, economic vibrancy, and foreign policy makes this determination. And yes, it is certainly subjective, but it’s precisely why the U.S. has adopted its imperialist attitude. It wants to define good and evil for the world, and in so doing, it can more effectively export its own definition of peace and democracy.”

Sarah: “Sounds so simplistic when you put it those terms.”

Dr. Neruda: “It’s a natural outgrowth of how a state engineers its power. The state requires its enemies in order to convince its citizens to accept its authority over their lives. The greater the fear the state is able to provoke in the hearts and minds of its citizens, the more power its citizens are willing to give to it in order to protect them from its enemies. All states, to varying degrees, do this.”

Sarah: “Are you saying that the U.S., just to pick an example, engineers its enemies? You’re really saying that America creates its enemies in order to increase its power domestically and internationally.”

Dr. Neruda: “I don’t mean that the U.S. literally creates its enemies. The U.S. has potential adversaries in many parts of the world. Its policy of military presence as a global protector is all that’s required to create enemies. Its forceful export of its political belief system is also troublesome to many countries that see American interests as a prelude to cultural colonization.”

Sarah: “Because we’re the only remaining superpower?”

Dr. Neruda: “No. It’s because the U.S. has a global military presence and economic lever that it wields with relative virtuosity. It is skillful at aggression without appearing aggressive. It protects and defends, and sometimes it will do this in a pre-emptive strike and sometimes in a reactive countermeasure that is usually at a force response that is several fold the original intensity. America’s self interests have become the standard of the free world, and there are those who fear it will dominate to the point of imperialism.”

Sarah: “How does all of this fit into the work of the Incunabula or the ACIO for that matter?”

Dr. Neruda: “The Incunabula uses the U.S. as a force for globalization. It is the lead horse pulling the nation states of the globe into a common economic and political platform.

“As far as the ACIO is concerned, it has thoroughly analyzed the various scenarios presented by U.S. global domination and find that there are only two scenarios in which the United States can achieve its ambitious aims without catalyzing a world war and plunging the global economy into a severe depression.”

Sarah: “Can you disclose these?”

Dr. Neruda: “No.”

Sarah: “Why?”

Dr. Neruda: “They are based on a mixture of remote viewing
, advanced computer modeling, and preliminary BST tests. I am not willing to disclose this information at this time. Perhaps at a later date.”

Sarah: “I fully realize that we’ve gotten completely off the subject, but you seem to be leading me into this conversation. I can’t help it.”

Dr. Neruda: “I understand.”

Sarah: “Are there plans for making this all happen? I mean does the Incunabula actually engineer the globalization or does it sort of happen as a result of a nudge here and a nudge there?”

Dr. Neruda: “It’s a carefully orchestrated process. The planning is deep, penetrating, and exhaustive. It is not flawless nor is it carried out with perfect precision. Nonetheless there is certainly a plan and it’s executed by the triad of power as I stated earlier.”

Sarah: “And you’ve seen this plan?”

Dr. Neruda: “I know of it through the Labyrinth Group. Fifteen requires each of us to know these plans on an intimate basis.”

Sarah: “Can you disclose any of this plan?”

Dr. Neruda: “I think I have been alluding it to it this interview.”

Sarah: “Yes, but you haven’t been clear about how events will culminate in such a way that the Incunabula will rise to power.”

Dr. Neruda: “It is not pre-ordained. There is no certainty in what I am about to disclose. It is a plan. Albeit a plan created by very ambitious and capable people.”

Sarah: “Duly noted.”

Dr. Neruda: “There are serious flaws within the global economy, and the United States will, within the next seven years, begin to express these flaws in ways that ripple through the globe and cause financial unrest. The best way to ensure that these flaws are controlled is to tighten corporate loopholes that allow greedy executives to exploit their shareholders, and to seize control over the price of oil.”

Sarah: “Wait a minute, I thought the greedy executives were exactly the profile of the Incunabula. Why would they lock down on their own turf?”

Dr. Neruda: “The Incunabula leadership is not comprised of greedy executives. It is made up of anonymous individuals. They are not sitting on corporate boards. They are not the Bill Gates of corporate America, nor are they the Bluebloods of European royalty. They are anonymous, and through their anonymity they wield great power. They are the strategists of the triad of power who plot and plan at such a level as to make corporate executives and politicians seem like preschoolers fumbling to hold a pencil.”

Sarah: “So if you gave me a name of the leader of the Incunabula, I couldn’t look him up. He doesn’t exist?”

Dr. Neruda: “That’s correct.”

Sarah: “So these people are not really very different from those of you within the ACIO.”

Dr. Neruda: “They are very different. They produce globalization and uniform economic and political platforms, while we produce breakthrough technologies. They practice hegemony, while we practice science.”

Sarah: “I didn’t mean to offend you… I thought you said earlier that the Incunabula used White Papers and think tanks to promote its vision for the future.”

Dr. Neruda: “No, it is the Military Force that does this. The Incunabula is multi-tiered, as I’ve said before. It produces ideas and frameworks that produce the right conditions for the think tanks and other forces of the elite power base to exert influence. It is a very complicated process. If you would like me to go into it, I will.”

Sarah: “No, I sort of interrupted you. You were talking about the Incunabula’s plan.”

Dr. Neruda: “They desire a paperless currency coupled to a global leadership, and to carry this out they require a restructuring – or perhaps more precisely, a complete reengineering of resource and power sharing.”

Sarah: “Can you elaborate on this a bit?”

Dr. Neruda: “The plan requires new leadership in the Arab states. There is general concern that the Arab states will consolidate much like Europe is in the process of doing, and new superpowers will be created out of this consolidation. Multiple superpowers make consolidation of the global economic platform a thorny proposition.

“Because of its natural aggression as a superpower, the United States is the spearhead of the Incunabula to usher in the required changes of their plan. It will be positioned to exert a strong military and cultural presence in the Middle East and Asia. Partly for oil considerations and partly for the purpose of gradually westernizing the indigenous cultures.”

Sarah: “Hold on a second. Our military bases are as much for the protection of our allies as for ourselves, and as for culture, we may export our movies and pop stars, but other countries are just as eager to be trend setters in the culture game.”

Dr. Neruda: “There’s a difference. The U.S. protects and defends because it can establish military bases in those regions after it is done defending. Agreements are made – sometimes without the public’s knowledge – to have military bases and protective forces therein for domestic peace issues and normalization. The U.S. has over 170 military bases on foreign soil. This number will continue to grow as dictated by this plan.

“In regard to the export of culture, yes, you are right, the U.S. is not alone in this, but it leads the way through its capitalistic leverage of pop culture. No one does this as well as American corporations. They have set the world standard for monetizing content and brands. Other countries mimic this standard and add their weight. Collectively, the culture of capitalism reaches the Arab nations, China, North Korea, Southeast Asia, and the people of these countries – especially the new generations – are seduced by its allure.”

Sarah: “I can’t help but get the impression that you’re not very patriotic.”

Dr. Neruda: “The plan I share with you is rooted in the success of the United States to secure unilateral superpower status by the turn of the century. The U.S. will, as a result, be required to assert itself because there will be many challengers and discreditors. However, in this process, it will increase its worldwide presence as the leader of the free world. This is the goal that many throughout the world hold dear to their heart, whether they voice this sentiment or not.

“I don’t hold any grudge against the U.S. for this assertion. Any nation would do the same thing if given the opportunity. The United States is relentlessly aggressive in all the important dimensions: military, culture, capitalism, applied technology, foreign policy, space, economic policy, and intelligentsia, to name the most critical areas.

“In Nature, the alpha male dominates through strength, cunning, and aggression. It is no different in the world of humans and statehood. The alpha male also has a responsibility for protection and sustenance. And the Incunabula planners selected the U.S. as being the most suitable country to lead the pack of other nations to the global platforms it has designed and is readying.”

Sarah: “Okay, it sort of makes sense, what you’re saying, but the Incunabula wants the U.S. to lead the world to a global community of free, democratic states with a global culture based on capitalism. How do they know the free world will elect them to govern them?”

Dr. Neruda: “They don’t. There are, as I’ve said many times here tonight, no guarantees. All I can say is that they don’t miscalculate very often, and when they do, they adjust to the changes presented them. Again, the planners of the Incunabula, the real architects behind these events, are not interested in being the leaders of earth in terms of visibility. They want to appoint the leadership while giving the world a sense of choice.”