[Then, a day or two later, one more question.]

Rick Martin: I realized there was one additional question that is quite important, that I did not ask you. Iím sure people will be wondering. So, I wondered if I could ask you now?

Red Elk: Why not.

Rick Martin: There are many people who believe that there are enlightened beings who live within the Earth in beautiful cities of light, such as those found under Lake Titicaca, under the Gobi Desert, under the North Pole, and under Mt. Shasta. Is that correct? And if so, who are these beings?

Red Elk: Iím not sure if thatís dead correct, because thatís where the cities are, you understand, some of them. Right, let me make that clear. By saying ďsuch asĒ means that there ARE those kind of cities under there. No! The only crystal cities that Iíve ever seen, in all my life - Iím not even, to this day, sure if I was looking at Heaven, or a great planet, but it wasnít on this Earth.

Rick Martin: Are you familiar with
Admiral Byrd, and his diary?

Red Elk: Iíve been familiar with Mr. Byrd since 11, or so.

Rick Martin: He says that he went into the North Pole, and met with these beings of Light, at the North Pole, within the Earth, at the great entrance of the North Pole. Now, who are these beings?

Red Elk: Iíve never seen them.

Rick Martin: So, you donít really know?

Red Elk: I have no idea if they still exist, or not. There are a type of being that may be on the same line as a Lighted being, and this was told to me by the Queen of the Innerland. At least, she told me the name of them. She called them Rock Flyers. She explained that they are a form of spiritual being, but physical spiritual. They have the ability to fly, and actually live in the stones, within the rocks and stones themselves. And she inferred they are some form of an Angel.

Rick Martin: Now, would that be the entity who is the soul of Earth?

Red Elk: No, no. She said they are the Angels of her people, the fairies and stuff; she calls them the Totems, as we do, and said: ďAs well as your peopleĒ - inferring those who have Totems on the surface.

And, Mr. Waters, of Melís Hole, when he was on the air last [on Art Bellís radio program], he had quite an experience with a living being. And thatís why I went to find out what this was all about. And she said he had a very, very, extremely rare case of one of these Rock Flyers taking shape within this animal, in the only way it knew, in the only opportunity it could, and coming up, and Mr. Waters had an actual healing experience with his Totem, one of these Rock Flyers, that can take on different forms.

Rick Martin: Thatís interesting to know thatís what that was.

Red Elk: Well, thatís what she told me. Iíve never run into Rock Flyers; Iíve seen many Totems.

Rick Martin: Now, again, who told you this?

Red Elk: The Innerland Queen.

Rick Martin: Is she a being of Light?

Red Elk: No.

Rick Martin: Sheís in spirit?

Red Elk: Oh, no, no.

Rick Martin: This is a real being?

Red Elk: Sheís as real as the fairies and stuff. I donít even know her name. Weíve gotten, over time, onto a fairly good relationship. In short, she never gets totally upset with me, or anything. And I donít have to go in there bowing and scraping, and stuff like that. She will send a messenger if she needs to see me, and wants to see me. One of the elders will come and tell me so; then weíll make arrangements for a meeting time.

Rick Martin: There is one person here who I work with, who has done a lot of reading over the years, including the Admiral Byrd material, and heís always been under the impression that in the very center of the Earth there is a Great Sun. Is that a misunderstanding?

Red Elk: The only Great Sun that it would be, that I have actually witnessed, in spirit I have gone right into it, and that would be quite similar to our Sun out here, just molten lava, and heat galore.

Rick Martin: Thatís in the dead center? Youíre talking lava within the center?

Red Elk: The # 1 level or layer, the so-called ball. Actually, it is a ball. Itís round.

As for Mr. Byrdís going in through a hole. Iíve never seen a large depression anywhere around the Earth like that. And I cannot verify that this is true or not. I donít KNOW it.

But I do believe there is such a depression, kind-of like having a large piece of clay pressed and warm in your hand, and press down maybe an inch and a half thick, and then you take your thumb and you press into it. The depression Iím speaking of, then, with your thumb, curl under that depression to make edges. That, if this is true, if there is such a place, that is the way I perceive it as being. In short, itís a great cave, with the lid fallen-in.

Rick Martin: But in terms of these ďlight citiesĒ that people talk about, like under Mt. Shasta, with the Lemurians, supposedly, is that myth? Or, you just donít know, either way?

Red Elk: I could not say, either way. All I know are the cities that I have personally seen, and these cities are of pure stone - no electricity, no plastic, theyíre waiting for the returnees. They have these huge chests that look like what they bury people in Egypt in, a sarcophagus, similar but they donít have that kind of carving and stuff, but theyíre made out of stone, too. And they fit really tight, the lids. And in these chests - and it takes two men, easily, to lift up the lid. In these chests are seeds for planting. And the only ones Iíve ever seen them in are seeds in linen, like cloth, so that when the Long Walkers get there, or the Returnees, if you prefer, get there, they go in with the knowledge of how to plant in the first place. They donít have tractors. Itís just like you could go out there, and you know to make a row of corn. Youíve got nothing to make it with. You can take a stick and make it.

Rick Martin: Now, the Long Walkers - youíre talking about the Hopi and the Navajo?

Red Elk: Yeah. Thatís what the Long Walkers are. But they arenít the only ones who are going to go in. They are the only ones who are called Long Walkers.

Rick Martin: Have you ever made contact with the soul of the Earth? The entity that represents this planet?

Red Elk: The actual entity of the soul of the Earth, as far as I know - definitely no. Iíve never run into an entity called the soul of the Earth. Frankly, the Earth needs no soul. Itís doing nothing wrong. Itís doing itís job. Only those who have the will to do, on a consistent basis, right or wrong, as they will it, have soul. Therefore, all human beings, no matter what planet, have souls. Everything else backs up the life of that human being.

Thereís Heavens for dogs, Heavens for cats, Heavens for horses - Iíve seen many of them; just beautiful. When a dog dies, I donít care how vicious the dog is here, it has done no wrong. It might have been trained wrong, or whatnot, but itís done no wrong. Or, done wrong through madness, like rabies or something, but it is free. It is just free. And these animals, no matter what breed, and birds, and fish, all kinds of things, this Heaven is a mass rolling cloud, for each individual-type animal - you know, dogs for dogs, horses for horses. And I say itís like that. Itís a cloud of pure - say weíre going to dog Heaven, right? It is a cloud of absolutely pure dog awareness joy. It is something else. Iíve had to help some animals into this Heaven, including two or three of my own who were so attached to us, they wanted to stay with us. No, itís time for them to go home and enjoy whatís there for them. So, Iíve had to take them, in spirit actually take them, and show them the place. And they look, cock their heads, and ďWow!Ē

And I say: ďItís ok. Go!Ē And they just run and leap into this, and just become one with this mass of joy. Iíve gone up, occasionally, just to look. And this is the only Heaven that I, literally, go up to on my own. The rest of the time, Iím taken into the Heaven for us. By the way, there are animals in that Heaven for us, too. And what happens is, these animals from Dog Heaven, for instance, theyíre called by their former masters and theyíll just transfer to there, and be with them. But they are not ďlockedĒ into the human Heaven. They can go back and forth. If they get tired of being around: ďSorry, pop, I gotta go. Iíll be back later.Ē And bang, off they go. This Heaven is a kick!

Like Iíve said, Iíve been up there, and suddenly one of the animals, over my lifetime, in this mass of confusion, chasing each other, biting each other on the butt, just having dog-fun, not hurting anything, just having fun - then, theyíll all of a sudden recognize that Iím out there, watching, because Iím not allowed to go INTO this.

And suddenly, word seems to go out: ďHey, Red Elk is out there!Ē And then just out of this massive cloud would bound a little whiff or cloud, and turn into one of my former animals, and just run up, and sit down, and look up at my face, and the tongue would be out, saying: ďIím having fun. Nice to see you. Bye!Ē And thatís that. Itís a wonderful place. But they have no souls. And I hear Penelope Smith and others say this, that animals have souls. No, they donít. They have an awareness and need no souls; they do no wrong.

Rick Martin: Makes sense. Thatís all I had. I just had to ask you that one question about the cities of Light, and I know people will be asking me.

Red Elk: I can honestly say, if there are such places, I donít know of them, here within this Earth. Oh, oh, oh! I take that back. Thank you, Creator. Aho! There is at least one. And that is the one known as Shangri-La.

Rick Martin: And is that under Tibet?

Red Elk: No, itís under the Russian Steppes.

Rick Martin: Where is that?

Red Elk: That is the great wilderness of Russia, the great wilderness, Siberia area. There is a way into it through Tibet. There is a way into it in the Russian Steppes.

Rick Martin: Thatís pretty remote.

Red Elk: Itís not only remote; itís unseeable - unless you go in the right heart, and that unlocks the key; and then suddenly, it is there. If you have that right heart, pure seeking, youíll be led there; if thatís truly where you want to go. There are great Masters there. There are a great many, many of the Essenes still there. The Essenes have never gone out of existence, ever.

And the great Earth Learners. These are people who are alive. Theyíre not spirit beings. They are alive people, alive, who are actually very long-lived, if you want, near, if not totally, immortal. They are great Masters, great Lovers. And Iím not speaking sexual love; Iím speaking love of all mankind, all things. And itís kind-of a parking place for those kinds of people who have walked out to search.

Literally, if you and I were side-by-side, and you had the right heart and I the wrong, you could get up to go to the bathroom or something, and weíre camped out there searching for something tangible that we can see, but your heart is right, and we happen to be right there where itís at, but we canít see it because itís in another kind-of dimension, you could go off to the bathroom, and I could watch you go hide behind a bush, and you simply would walk into air and I could not find you. You make it to Shangri-La; I do not.

And it is a strange world. And the key that you need to get into the city is similar to the key needed to get into the Inner Earth, and to the other cities that I know - and that is a pure heart. You go in the proper area, the proper place, but if you are going with a pure heart - not to conquer, not to explore, but youíve heard, and you hunger to be a part of it, and you love the Creator, and you love everything - and youíre not going to hide from a police record or something. Anyway, with that pure heart, if you get within the general area, you are checked out. It is a city that is within the Earth, and yet is inter-dimensional.

Rick Martin: Now, would this be the city where reside the great Masters who are, forever, on this planet, such as Baba Ji?

Red Elk: Yes, it would be. But, is it? I donít know. Only the people who have set their heart on nothing but goodness and kindness and compassion and love and helping - not all of these people, you understand - but in their searching, they hear of Shangri-La.

Iím looking at it, right now. Iím split. Iím what we call split. And, frankly, the city looks quite a bit like the one in/on this planet I told you about - a crystal, dome-like, inter-dimensional though, city. Itís there, within the Earth, not on the surface of the Earth. And if you and I happen to be in the Earth, at that area of the city, but not of pure heart, we would not know it exists. To us, weíd be walking through the air of a cave, or whatnot. Itís an inner heart way. The key to it is through the heart. Youíve got to be of pure heart.

And that holds true with the other Keepers. Thatís one of my jobs, called Keeper of the Tunnels, which means or infers,
Inner Earth.

I have a city that I am particularly keeper of, the entry way. The first group of Long Walkers are headed for that city, and there are a number of openings to this city. And some of them are actual, physical openings, that you can actually physically enter into - a crack, or cave, or whatnot, and start your walk. And this is what theyíve done. But I have the inner key, the pure heart; therefore, I have the key to the opening that is scant miles from the city. When the time comes, my orders are already known. When the time comes, the Creator will send certain ones to me, at a certain place, and these are the ones from other breeds - other than Indian-American - Black people, it doesnít matter. He knows who they are. They will be called. They will be so compelled, they canít stop themselves. They will do everything they can to get there.

They will meet with me, and then I will open the door, and they will go down. I will then shut the door, and thatís it. My job is done for the inner city work. Iíll stay here. I have to face the music thatís up here. I cannot - I do not know how to open the door, go down with them, and then come back up and open the door, and come back to the surface. I have no knowledge of how to do that. All I do, basically, Iím just the doorman.

Rick Martin: And when you open that door, I presume itís so that they go down into safety?

Red Elk: Yes, and the survivors here on the surface, over time, will interbreed, and there will be ONE COLOR, ONE LANGUAGE. The same thing will happen down there.

Now, the American Indians, Long Walkers, and those of that ilk, they believe that they came from down there, which is very true. Not all of them, you understand, but many of these people were the survivors who were saved by the gods, little g, in reality, here, and from up on our surface, when they warred against the Draconian Lizards and saved the group. They believe that they are the only ones, that they are the only people who came out of the Inner Earth. (Laughter) Boy, are they wrong! There were Africans, and all kinds of people, all around the Earth. Theyíre not the only ones. They are a little cocky, and theyíve got this in their head. I donít know why.

But nevertheless, they believe that they are going to be masters, if you want, of the city theyíre going to. And there are a number of cities, a number of Long Walkers, who are going to be going toward these cities, American Indians - at least 3, at the very least - are going to be going to cities that are deep within our underground.

Rick Martin: Youíre talking about 3 individuals?

Red Elk: Three cities, at least. When they get there, theyíre going to believe that this is for them. Wow! Alleluia and all of that. Theyíll think: ďThe Great Spirit has given us a whole city. We know how to live here. Our ancestors had known how to make knives, etc., and weíve learned those skillsĒ and blah, blah, blah.

Well, at least in the one city that I take care of, that I am in charge of, theyíre going to find, when they get there, thereís others who are waiting for them from our surface, of very many different colors. The same type of colors that are here, same race, breeds, if you want, that are up here on our planetís surface will be going down there. And in my case, they will be there before the Long Walkers get to it.

Now, in the other cities, I donít know. But nevertheless, they will get there, if theyíre not there first. You understand?

Rick Martin: Yes.

Red Elk: And the Long Walkers are going to be very, very surprised. As it stands now, in the first group of Long Walkers, at least five are dead. I just checked recently, and it still looks like only five are dead.

Rick Martin: Five are dead?

Red Elk: Yes, yes. One died of appendicitis. One, I donít know. And three, foolishly, did not pay heed to myself or the Guides that the Inner Queen had given them, and went off exploring on their own. And thereís traps all through these dang tunnels.

And during a big rest-stop, these three saw a huge, at least 3-foot-wide, pure silver vein; and they wanted to explore that. They walked off, and it was a trap-vein, and a cave-in killed the 3 of them. Which is good - what is death? Theyíre ok; theyíve gone on. And it was good that this went on, too, because it really chastised the others to PAY ATTENTION to what I have told their leader, and them, and what the Guides tell them. And it was needed - really, in a sense, designed, that this happened to these three - to warn, and show the others that this is not a game. It might be a long, long walk, but it is not a game; you pay attention. And believe me, they are now!

But, in this group there is an older lady who is, well, she has a big ego problem, and she thinks that SHE should be the leader. And the leadership is given to a younger man, when the original leader abandoned them, and came out of the tunnel, just scared to death. He made big hoopla about, he knew this, he knew that about the Innerland. He didnít know diddly-squat, nothiní - and he, literally, abandoned them.

He came out and said: ďThey are sick. They need this. They need that.Ē And told our Indian people, the Elders, and stuff. And they backed him up with all kinds of stuff - I mean, the guy was loaded-down. And he went back into the Inner Earth, to one of the first small caves, and sat there for several days eating the foods and things that he was, supposedly, bringing back to them.

And he came out and told them: ďWell, I got back to them, but they left. I told them to stay there, and I canít find them in this maze. Theyíre gone.Ē So, the first group is considered to be dead now.

So, they made up a second group to go, and this man was going to lead them in. And I thought ďOh, noĒ when I heard about this.

You know, the guy has got these Elders hoodwinked. He just - oh, I just donít stand this kind of medicine people ego - but a real hero to the people when he came out. You know, a real hero. He made his way out, and heís going back in to ďsaveĒ the group. Save the group my butt! He was scared to death in there.

Anyway, they were going to send him in with a second group. When I heard about it, I had to search him out and put a sickness on him, that put him into the hospital. Iím not allowed to kill or anything; itís abhorrent to me. But, in this case, I had to put a sickness on this younger man. Young, well, heís probably in his early 40s now.

The Elders couldnít understand it, because this guy was going to lead the second group in, and the group was ready, then suddenly heís very sick. And the doctors are scrambling all over to find out whatís going on - the White doctors. Ta-da! The light went on in the head of 2 or 3 of the Elders, and they said: ďWait a minute. This is no ordinary sickness. This is something put on by a sorcerer, or something along that line.Ē

Iím not a sorcerer, but I know the abilities. So they went searching and they did a time-trip on the Long Walkers, the first group, and found out the truth of this man. I think thereís five of them who did this, and they were just astonished that this man was a Judas. He was NOT what he was making himself out to be.

So they understood the sickness, and chose another to lead the second group in, which is well on its way now.

And this one here, somehow - I donít know how - word has kind-of filtered out of the great Elders pow-wow, heís kind-of like a dog with his tail between his legs, down there in Indian land. Heís lost all status, all status. Heís out of the hospital, but heís locked out of ever doing this again. And he will never enter in. Heís not a true-heart. He will never enter in.

Meanwhile, the lady thinks she should be leader. So, what is going to happen - I see the future of it, Iíve been shown the future of it. They will get emerge from the entrance into the great cave, where this huge, huge, huge area of beautiful land is - water, with fish, animals, and by the way, these animals are not like our animals. These are Mastodons and stuff.

Anyway, they see the city in the distance - not huge distance, you know, 20-30 miles away - and making their way to it. All of a sudden as they get close, they see that there are people there who are not Indians, who are Black people, White people, all different colors. And theyíre ďshockedĒ, just literally shocked. And the Indian woman then will cause an uprising within the group, and there will be a split.

And if this woman has her way - and I donít know beyond this future - she has either got to somehow be convinced into staying with the group, or coming back to the half-group theyíre split from, now, and live in peace. In short, take it as the way it is. Just roll with the punches. We werenít expecting it either, but come on back. And she doesnít want to. I know this.

Or, she will take her son, and some of her other followers, splitting-off, and they will cause the first wars in the Innerland.

Or, she must be killed, or die in a natural form, to stop the wars she will be making because of her hatred of the races that she sees, and her hatred of the Elder who is much wiser than her, who actually has the authority and is leading the group. Itís just hate; sheís jealous and full of hate.

Rick Martin: Really unfortunate.

Red Elk: Yes, very unfortunate, very unfortunate, indeed. And I know that peace will try to be made, but I do not know if it will succeed. And the only hope is that she dies, and her son dies. Heís not anywhere near as bad as her, but sheís got the son convinced sheís the leader. Itís very, very sad.

Luckily not everybody goes with her. Actually, just a little less than half of those who actually make it out of the hole - some 16. But therein enters war. While the others will, all over our world, will meet with others from our upperland, and they, too, will interbreed.

The same color that is on our surface, will be on their surface; the same language on our surface will be on their surface. All nations will disappear.

It is the Red man, the Red manís nation - the knowledge that we give out. My job is to teach the abilities that all human beings have; the knowledge is what will be left of the Red manís race. That inner touch, how to make fruit out of a piece of dead branch, that happens to be an apple branch. I teach how to do this. I give them the knowledge. I do not do it for them. Iíve taken my lessons. I know what I can do; Iíve seen it work. Iíve tested it. I know how simple the lesson is, and therefore lies the biggest problem on how hard it is to do it. Itís so damn simple that nobody can believe it. Excuse my language, but you understand what I mean?

Rick Martin: Sure I do.

Red Elk: Our world is full of the idea that itís got to be complicated; weíve got to have scientists do it; weíve got to have a great inventor do it; itís got to have millions of dollars behind it - ah, bull crap. Itís just got to have your heart and your mind, and thatís that!

So, anyway, thatís where that stands.

And, before we go, my brother, there is something that I wish I had told in this interview.

Aho! Thank you, Creator. Aho!

Boy, I just love Dad. He has a pretty good head.

Rick Martin: Heíll remind you.

Red Elk: He says, like the Crystal City inside, and this, what Iím going to say, wasnít just a reminder. It was like a toilet plunger just pressing down. Itís a very permanent reminder.

And that is the fact that I speak, in the interview, quite a bit about what people would call Christian things.

Well, the Inner Heyoka learned at the feet of the Son of God. Thatís where our original society originated. Christ himself. You call him Christ. We call him Pale One, or Pale Teacher.

So, I am one of only twelve who carry on the traditional way of purity. I understand our Indian nationís main ceremonies. Not all ceremonies are based on this, but our main ones, like Sun Dance - where it comes from, how it connects with Christ, how it connects with the Bible. Iím the bridge. Iím not supposed to understand these things.

And, if youíd like to put why I talk so much about the Bible, being on the Indian side, Iíd gladly explain one of the great bridgings, one of the great misunderstandings between Indians and Whites, both.

Rick Martin: Tape is rolling.

Red Elk: The Sun Dance consists of a very large circle scratched into the Earth. And in the center is a hole, to receive the center pole, the tree. And what happens is, when it comes time for Sun Dance, the Elders will get together and pray, and send out scouts - young bucks, if you would.

I donít think that we like that word, but the White man will understand it.

Nevertheless, send them to look for the proper tree to fill this hole. And these people will go out and search the countryside, sometimes for many, many miles, 2 or 3 days. They will come back and report: ďI found this tree, I found that tree.Ē

They are busted up into small groups and go out in 2s, 3s, 1s, and report back. And then the Elders will take these reports and go and check on these trees, the Elders themselves, to see which tree is the right tree. When the right tree is found, then they send for a whole crew of guys - good, strong guys, young men, and a virgin, a young woman; sheíll be dressed in white. And they do their prayers, and give thanks for the sacrifice of cutting the tree, and everything thatís involved, which is a lot more than is normal for us when we take the life of a tree or plant. Even more so with this, because this is a very special tree.

The tree is not short. Itís not some little 15-foot tree; itís up there in height. And they will give the young virgin an axe, and in ceremony, with this axe, she will run up and strike the tree; if I remember right, 3 times, but it varies.

Now, this young virgin, dressed in white, represents Mary, the mother of Christ. She hits the tree because it is the enemy upon which her child was killed. They cut the tree down, then. The young men have to line-up so, when the tree comes down, they have to catch it. They canít let it drop on the ground. This is a big, green tree, with leaves and everything.

Then they catch it and de-limb it. They have to carry it all the way back to the circle, no matter if it is days or nights. They cannot let it touch the ground. So they shift, they have people who shift, depending on how far away that it is. They represent those who helped carry the cross of Christ.

The tree enters the circle. The circle represents the circle of all Creation, all life - every planet, every people of those planets, our own planet, our own mitakuye oyasin, one relation. And when we say we are one relation, we are not inferring only human-to-human, we are related to the worm that helps to aerate the earth by eating our bodies that are buried in the earth. And, therefore, the water gets into those little holes and helps feed the grass roots and stuff, and the animals come and eat it; and we eat the animals, or we eat the plants. And, literally, we are ingesting our dead sometimes. You know? In a sense, weíre the top of the food chain, and the bottom. Both! But anyway, we mean everything when we say mitakuye oyasin; weíre talking everything - the rain, the mountains, the stars, the dirt, everything; not just people.

So, anyway, this great circle represents all of this. And itís in a circle because everything runs in a circle. The hole is in the dead center of this circle. Well, they bring the tree into this hole, and on top of the tree is a live branch, with the leaves on it. Thatís the only one thatís not taken away from the tree. And then they put the tree in, and with great ceremony they plant the tree.

The tree represents the cross of Christ. The green branch on top represents life, up there. It is connected into the Earth, from our Mother, our Mother Earth, to the Heavens itself, is the connection. And the connection is the Christ.

Well, they donít have a cross-piece on it, but they tie lines to it - those who are going to dance. These dancers prepare through fasting and a lot of prayer, because itís a pretty painful dance.

Certain people, by each dancer, are pierced, and bone, or sticks, or whatnot are shoved through these pulled pieces of skin; and one of these lines are looped around these sticks in such a manner that it catches both sides of the stick. This represents the piercing of Christ.

Then the dance begins. And they start dancing around, asking the Creator for forgiveness for themselves, or whatever, but asking the Creator to be with ALL. Some dance, not for themselves, but for others who canít dance. Itís a beautiful time, but itís rough. And theyíre leaning back on these sticks, on these long, long lines. Meanwhile, everybody is praying and pow-wowing, and kind-of partying, and rooting for the people there, dancing on.

In the old days, they used to dance day and night. But today, they take them down during the day - they take the skewers off, on some of these. They donít do it anymore like in the old days. And now they let them rest during the night. In the old days, they were at it day and night. If they had to sleep, theyíd just fall asleep right there on the ground, and someone would come and cover them.

Anyway, they pulled themselves loose from these skewers, or these lines on the skewers. And if they canít, by jerking back, literally rip those two holes from side-to-side, then others will come in and pull them back. Itís real easy to pull the skewers out and just release them. But thatís not the way of it. Their sacrifice for the prayer, for the people, for all Creation, is so great, it is very, very painful. Each one are representing the Christ.

So they are ripped-off the cross. And others might have to help them. And I tell you - you go into great pain on this thing. And then they are taken for healing time. In this healing time, it generally lasts for three days. Christ was buried for three days. And then they come out, doctored and cared for, and are considered very special people, very holy people. And our people will touch them, and honor them with gifts, and thanksgiving, and ask for special prayer.

The whole thing is the ceremony, because of what the Bible talks about; because we had no words to write down. So we did it in ceremony, to remember what we can now read in the Bible.

This is what American Indian ceremonies - a vast majority, well, all ceremonies - are, literally: words in plays, in acts, like watching Shakespeare. But, over the centuries, even our Indians have forgotten what some of our ceremoniesí origins or roots were. They have the most beautiful meanings, but well off the mark.

As for the Inner Heyokas, there were 13. In time - Iím not sure if I said this earlier - Christ had left 13 of what you would call apostles, over there in the Jerusalem area.

Over time, all the Indians learned a lot, my ancestors of the society learned a tremendous amount. And they would come to us for healing. And, at first, they would honor us with gifts, food-stuffs, and things that are needed for life, just to exist. But, in time, they just expected it from us. And it got to the point, theyíd rattle the new claws on the teepee, on the lodge, in the middle of the night: ďHey, I need your prayers. Come on out.Ē And we started to go from something of being respected greatly, to dang near a slave. And that, to this day, is still the case.

Our families - weíre spending more time healing than going out and getting a hunk of meat to feed our kids and wives. And this got one of the 13 ticked-off. So, the next time somebody wanted him, when someone came to him and said: ďLook, basically, we need you over at this Nation, a couple-day trip.Ē

He said: ďYeah, you tell them Iím going to come, but Iím not coming at this minute.Ē He had gotten a great idea. He grabbed drums, and rattles, and he had already planned this. He had made a mask, and everything else. Well, he packed-up and went.

He went into the village, and these people are expecting kind-of Paul the apostle to walk into this thing, ďThanks, guysĒ and walk home again.

He came in and he, literally, began chanting and drumming and singing and rattling and doing a whole hoopla of things; it became a vaudeville act. And then he did the prayer that he was going to normally do, anyway. Well, this was so awe-inspiring to the people there, they paid him - my gosh, not only a healing, but entertainment, to boot.

This is where tradition started. Tradition started out of purity and need - not trust, though. 1 of the 13, the original 13, started tradition. He became a damned clown. But, in time, it grew with more respect.

Well, people were bringing the clown in: Here, letís have a song and dance and healing too, and weíll give you good stuff for it. And it caught-on with others who are lesser medicine people, who are not of the inner 13. And this is where tradition started.

Well, it left us with only 12 who remained in purity, who remained in the ability to do tradition. We knew the songs and dances, too, over time. We learned it, but that didnít mean we did it; we learned it, we knew what it was all about. But we prefer to not use it. We prefer to go up and pray.

Well, todayís White world has ruined even the prayer of purity. They went in and said: ďSure, Iíll pray for youĒ - meaning well, but not asking the Creator if they should do so; or, if so, how to do it. What does He want done? They donít do that.

But Christ said: I ask and then do. What Dad tells me to say, I say. What He tells me to do, I do. If not, I donít do it.

The Christians donít follow Christ. They claim to, but they are liars, unintentionally, but they are liars. So, today, when people come to me for prayer, I go to the Creator, every single time. And I say: ďSir, what do YOU want? Am I to do this for this person? Or, am I to be a part of it?Ē

And then I listen. Itís that simple. You ask and then you listen. Just shut-up and listen, and expect an answer. And He gives you an answer. And if itís ďYesĒ, then I ask Him: ďWhat do you want me to do about it? How? How do you want me to go about it, sir?Ē

And He tells you. And in many cases He says: ďThey came to you as Indians, asking for it in the Indian way, i.e., the way of tradition. So, give it to them in that way.Ē And then He explains exactly how He wants me to go about it. And I do so. And the people are happy, because that same kind of traditional method cured grandma and great auntie and on and on.

It really wasnít that, because thatís all a vaudeville act; but they believe it. It was the prayer that did the work, and the prayer didnít even heal anybody, it was the fact that the prayer was given by the Creator, and He healed. We donít heal a thing.

Thereís where tradition became, and also, itís where itís going to go back to - purity. Already, some of the medicine people are approaching me, saying: ďRed Elk, we know this is dying. We know that the future holds no more plants for us to use, no more of this or that. How are we going to survive? How are we going to remain being medicine men without all of this stuff ?Ē

And I laugh, and I say: ďYouíve never needed it in the first place!Ē And I explain. And itís hard on them, but they see the truth of it. Theyíre going to have to go through something new to them - purity.

So, anyway, it is no trouble for me to swing back and forth between Indian and the so-called White manís religion. And itís no trouble for me to go into Muslim and Buddhist.

The Creator looks at a personís heart. I have, now, people who are Buddhist, and people who are Muslims, and Wiccan, and atheists, who are Christ-followers. Thatís what the word Christian means; they use the power of what Christ gave the people: love. That was his sacrifice, his teaching, and his love. Therefore, anyone who loves, not hoping to get something back, but just plain compassion, they, at that time, are a Christ-follower, whether they know it or want anything to do with it, or not. CHRIST IS LOVE. CHRIST WAS GOD. GOD IS LOVE. Even the Bible says: ďGod is the spirit of loveĒ as well as many other names.

Right now I have a Buddhist - an active one who loves the religion Buddhist/Christian; and I have two Muslims who love their way, Muslim/Christian. God doesnít care how you go to Him; He cares about your heart.

Rick Martin: Intent.

Red Elk: I have people who are atheists, who to this day will not admit that there is a God, but they follow Christ, because they do so out of just pure heart-love purity. Do you understand?

Rick Martin: Yes, I do.

Red Elk: I wish people would leave everybodyís way of going to God alone. And, knowing what God is, purity love, knowing what Christ was, Him, in purity love on two legs, and knowing what that purity love does to you, it gives you compassion and the willingness to love without any recompense on your part, with much sacrifice, often.

Never mind if they get on a piece of cloth and bow to the East. Allah is the name of God in that region, for Heavenís sake! Itís this in-fighting of religion thatís terrible, but even worse is, in those religions you have, like Taliban, and your other Muslim types, itís in-fighting; itís denominationalism within the Muslim faith, a splitting-away and causing in-fighting. And itís nothing more than what we have here that we call denominations. Let us unite as mitakuye oyasin - one people, in love. And never mind how we go about it, go about touching Godís ear.

So be it. I felt very strongly, I came on more like a preacher than an Indian, and they wouldnít know where I came from.

Rick Martin: Itís always good to clarify.

Red Elk: Iím doing CDs and tapes, professional, on how to do certain things. The first three are professionally taped: How to teleport; How to do telepathy, on demand; and How to fly, or levitate - both 101 and advanced. All people have to do is to test it, to find out if it works.

You do me a favor. You pray about it [whether to include the following information]. Iím not in this for the money. Thank God Iím starting to make some money. But Iím not in it for the money. Itís almost a sin for me to make money, and itís awful hard on me, because the Bible says: ďFeed your hawks.Ē And this big, old, dumb ox, Iíve been working for years for nothing.

Nevertheless, I have other ones coming up. Next month Iíll spend a whole day taping a bunch of other ones.

Then, the one I have now is called The Agendas, as you know (a 24-page booklet, $33) that gives nothing but knowledge. And knowledge that nobody else is presenting, and really knowledge thatís so deep that, whoís going to believe it? The only way that youíre going to find out is to wait, and that way you wonít be so shocked as it happens.

I donít set the price on these things. The Creator sets the price, and Iím ashamed at the price; Iím so shamed. But he told me: ďNo! I mean, literally, No!Ē He said: ďI want only those who are truly interested in learning to receive these.Ē And that means that if people canít afford the price themselves ($33 for a 24-26 page booklet), they can always find 2 or 3 others who would like to share the cost.

Again, you pray about it, and if you put it in, you tell them you prayed about it. Iím going to leave it in Creatorís hands and out of mine.

Rick Martin: This is a good place to end. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with our readers.

Red Elk: Aho!

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On Wednesday, January 22, 2003, we received a telephone call at The SPECTRUM from renowned Native American leader Red Elk, who felt compelled to share the following message with all of our readers.

Many of you will remember Red Elk as Rick Martinís featured front-page interviewee for our April 2002 issue. That provocative article was titled Red Elkís Medicine Message Of Worlds Within Worlds: Old Mysteries, Powerful Truths For Today. Red Elk teaches and lectures extensively and has several times spoken to the vast listening audience of Art Bellís late-night talk-radio program about both spiritual matters and the many layers of activity going on right under our feet.

Rick Martin answered Red Elkís call and, once the intent was understood, quickly grabbed his tape recorder so that we could share the following information and dialog with you.

Is it timely? Thatís a matter of personal value within the Larger Play thatís rapidly picking up speed. It seems that teachers from all directions are being urged to step forth and do their part to help guide those who are awakening to an awareness of the Cleansing Spirit moving ever more surely over planet Earth.

As Red Elk says, conditions shall be such as to encourage all of like mind to work together toward the renewal of Mother Earth - for all our relations.

RED ELK on 22nd January 2003 (Website: www.redelk.org)

Red Elk: What Iíd like to say, if at all possible, is to the people:


The line IS drawn. Capitalize IS. There will be no more fence-straddling. Youíre either going to be for Good, or for self.

Basically, weíve only got about 2Ĺ years before war comes to our shores, and WE lose. But it wonít be a total loss.

The Great Hand of the Creator will slap-down on the foreign armies that occupy the USA. It will slap-down three times, and every foreign personnel who are connected with taking us over will flee. But, nevertheless, war is due.

There will be a M7.2 earthquake on the West Coast. Somewhere rolling in from the Portland, Oregon area. Now, I do not know if thatís Portland included, but from that particular area, up toward Washington. Date or year unknown, but it will be early on a beautiful Spring morning.

Mount St. Helens will blow again, going through the lava tubes, wiping-out Cougar, Washington - going towards Portland. I donít know if the winds catch it before or after, and then blow it along the coast, and inland again, East, as before. Time and date and year unknown - but it will be. It will be as before, on a beautiful Spring morning, between 6:00 and 10:30 a.m. More towards Summer, I think, because itís a very beautiful day.

Mt. Rainer will blow approximately just under 1/4 of its top, like an arrow shooting up. And then it will turn around and come down and fill the gap that it had left, creating air pressure far into the inlands of Eastern Washington, Kittitas County. There will be holes from a few mere inches to 60 feet or so across, that are blown out with just air pressure, nothing to do with lava. This will happen sometime approaching or during elk season, which is Fall time. Again, the time and year unknown.

But weíre in for one heck of a ride. This should take place before the war.

Planet X will not flip the Earth. Itís only one of three events. It will be a contributing factor only. It is there. Weíve known it in Native medicine knowledge for many, many, many - well, foretold for centuries. When will it come? I donít know if itís on the date everybody is talking about; I have no idea. All I know is that it will be coming. And it will cause great disturbances on the Earth. But it will not cause the Earth to flip, though it will be a contributing factor.

When will the Earth flip? I donít know. It will flip within 23 years, anytime within 23 years, and AFTER the events just described.


And itís going to be Bad versus Good, Good versus Bad, Unconditional Love versus Self Gratification.
The Christian churches will break up. There will be the true-hearts who will leave, leaving the modern-day Christian way, in the church buildings. The true-hearts will start meeting in homes, again. They will stay in the traditional Christian churches until they canít stand it anymore. But they will be a Light within the Church for a short time, and then they will pull out.

Again: the line is drawn! Thereís no more fence-straddling, at all. You make up your mind now which way youíre going to go: Good or Bad.

You still LOVE the Bad. They can call you enemy; but you donít call them enemy.

The year 2012 is NOT the end of civilization as we know it; that I can see. But it is the Year of Confusion.


So many probables. Mankind can go in so many different, strong ways that the Mayan, the Aztec, etc., just did not see which way they were going to go. They were all such strong possibilities to go. So, they more or less threw their hands up and said: ďWe donít know.Ē

Thank you, my brother, thatís the best I can do.

Martin: I have one question for you.

Red Elk: No, Iím not pregnant. [Laughter]

Martin: [Laughter] Our upcoming March feature concerns the year 2003, primarily.

Red Elk: Yeah, there is something that is going to be done in 2003. I donít know what.

Martin: There is a lot that people are seeing, a lot of apprehension for the first half of 2003. Some people are apprehensive because of Planet X, some people are apprehensive because of the possible war in Iraq, and yet there are other factors coming into play, not the least of which is time manipulation.
Do you have a sense of what peopleís apprehension is about 2003?

Red Elk: Most of the apprehension is caused by the Earth, inner great shifting. We are of Earth. We are made of dirt, and stuff, originally. So we are, therefore, very much in tune with the Earth, regardless if you are aware of it or not. The grading, and all of the movement of our Earth, sheís getting ready to roll. Itís causing a sympathetic vibration in the human body.

Also, people are going into parallel times and places, actually doing it - and shocked: ďWhat was that all about?Ē Because it only lasts a moment, to several minutes. Are they going crazy? No, itís just they are not aware of what is happening.

[Editorís note: This last comment is very similar to what Al Bielek and Preston Nichols say in Rickís front-page feature story.]

Martin: Thereís a lot of that.

Red Elk: Yes, there is a tremendous amount, and it is growing, and growing, and growing.

So some of the apprehension is due to our Mother Earth. And the fact that our people came from her belly - in that sense, we ARE connected. But most people are not aware of the total connection.

But another thing: How do I say it? There is also occurring manipulation through ďother forcesĒ - those who in turn are manipulated by Luciferian angels and he himself, who are trying to manipulate the humans to be afraid.

Martin: True.

Red Elk: Youíre supposed to run to the government; they will ďprotectĒ you. Youíre damn right they will! Theyíre part of the other ones, the Bad ones!

You are being controlled simply by fear - theyíre trying to, anyway. Big word: fear! FEAR!

And those who learn to overcome that fear, and walk in the Light of Love and Unity with The Creator - shoot - this will be a piece of cake.

It will be like walking through a cloud instead of hitting a mountain. It will only cause you to waiver a bit; then off you go, right through that mountain! Itís nothing more than energy in the first place, just as you are energy. You become an unstoppable force, going right through an immovable object!

Itís all mind, God-mind stuff. It is, literally, thought energy. You match energy and pass through. And we can do that - but it takes a heart relationship with Daddy to do it. It really does; Iím not kidding anybody. It really does!

Put that down, however you want, brother, if you will.

Martin: Iíll be glad to.

Red Elk: The line is drawn! Thereís no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Our skies havenít turned red, yet. I think that Planet X is going to help along in that way.

Iím not sure if itís going to be a nuclear explosion that causes this. Although, the wavering of our Earth, and this Planet X coming by so close and causing what it does - makes the Earth shake and rattle and roll even more.

And since everybody is on edge anyway, somebody might, might hit the wrong button and we will have a nuclear war. And Iím talking PRIOR to Armageddon.

So, the skies will turn red, day and night, for a number of days in a row. What actually causes it? Iím not sure. It hasnít happened yet. We can still change everything if enough people of the planet got right with The Creator; we could stop everything.

Planet Earth can go out into space like a slingshot. Mamma would calm down and say: ďAh, the fleas are resting.Ē And not shake us off. Otherwise, weíre on our own.

And I tell you true: the line IS drawn! Itís not a matter of going to be, or a little line here, a little line there, like it has been - people here, people there, praying for Mother Earth, not knowing that thereís five more, six blocks down the road, doing the same thing. Theyíre not yet connected, a bunch of little lines.

But now, they are going to connect as One! Those who are for Good will connect as One, in some super-huge kind of meeting.

And theyíve got to learn that, when they connect, they cannot - I repeat, with big CANNOT - say: ďWeíre all here for helping Earth and mankind, and this is the way you must do it.Ē

Theyíve got to realize - Iím talking medicine people, spiritual people, Iím talking wiccan people - I donít care, as long as they are for Mamma Earth, and for unity of Love, I donít care how they go to The Creator.

But, Iím telling you this: There is a great problem in the world today, amongst the so-called ďspiritualĒ people. They have a problem with: ďMY way is right; so weíll do it this way.Ē

They are not living Mitakuye Oyasin [for all my relations]. They just talk the word.

The world is a body, in a sense. We are the doctors, in a sense. All doctors, to be regular doctors, all go to the same kind of basic training to know the body before they branch off to be a brain surgeon, a heart surgeon, a foot doctor. But they all have to take the same basic training before they branch-off.

They are forgetting that we all have the same basic training; weíre all working with the same body. And sure, some know how to do brain surgery; some know how to do foot work. But that does not cure the body; it only cures that part.

They must realize it takes all, working together, on the whole body! The brain surgeon, the heart surgeon, the guy who heals broken bones, the guy who takes care of intestinal disorders - without all of them truly working together, no ONE is right.

They must unify! Then the body has a great chance of being healed; otherwise, itís just partially crippled. Right now the body is spastic. We must work together to make the body whole. Work TOGETHER, not against each other. None of this ďmine is right, yours is wrongĒ attitude.

And until they can do that, these who call others together to meet for praying for Mother Earth, and all that, but they still stay in their specialty and fight each other - how can they be so stubborn and yet claim to heal all?! They must accept every bit of each otherís little individual - or great - amount of work on the body.

The nurse who gives the aspirin, she is very much needed. And so is the brain surgeon. No one is more important than the other. We must unite!

Now, people world-wide are getting awfully antsy, scattered, frightened. As I said, itís designed to be that way, so they can be controlled.

They must be FREE, SELF-THINKERS, and TOTALLY FEARLESS. And they canít do that without the total spiritual contact with our Creator. And that Creator is 100% real! Theyíve got to reach that point of KNOWING!

Make that Creator - however you call The Creator: He, She, Cosmos, Allah, God, whatever - make that one Daddy. Make Him REAL in your heart! Humanize Him to the point where you can run and jump on His lap, and hug Him. But do it with great respect; thatís what He wants. You are His thought! You are His child! You wouldnít exist if He didnít want you in the first place!

So make Him an approachable Daddy. Donít keep Him at such a distance, pushed away with some kind of artificial reverence. Talk to Him in a respectful manner. But then, regard Him as you would your father, human father, who you love dearly. You want to go to Dad and give Him a hug.


Or, you want to be able to say:

ďDad, I donít understand this or that; help me.Ē

And if youíre in the wrong and donít admit it, youíre going to get your butt spanked. Heís Dad! He wants you to grow up right!

You might as well get up on His lap and apologize, and love Him, instead of standing out there in the doorway. Get in there and hug the Guy, this Great Being. He exists!

Well, Iíve said my piece. A lot more than I intended to say. Take it down as you choose.

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