by Dr. Joseph Mercola
May 04, 2025
from Mercola Website

PDF version

Joe Rogan recently sat down with Dr. Suzanne Humphries, co-author of "Dissolving Illusions - Disease, Vaccines, and the Forgotten History," one of my favorite books on vaccines.

I previously interviewed Humphries about how vaccine science has been misrepresented to portray them as safe and effective, when in reality they're neither.

She absolutely crushed it in this far below Rogan video interview...!

I honestly don't think anyone in history has laid out such a clear, convincing, and downright compelling case about the vaccine downsides. After decades of grinding away, her hard work's finally getting the spotlight it deserves, and I'm beyond thrilled to have written the forward to her fantastic book.

Rogan also asked Humphries questions about the history, science and real impact of vaccines, and she didn't hold back with her answers.

Their conversation challenges conventional narratives about vaccines, explores the efficacy of natural remedies and uncovers an important history of medicine that is often overlooked.

The Importance of an Open Mind

Rogan opens the episode by emphasizing a key principle:

avoiding dogma.

"You can't be dogmatic when you're talking about vaccines - or about anything," he says, advocating for a flexible, 360-degree perspective rather than the tunnel vision often fostered by indoctrination.

Humphries agrees, noting that intentional and profitable indoctrination has shaped public perception of medical practices.

• Beneficial practices are often unfairly dismissed

  Rogan praises "Dissolving Illusions" for highlighting the use of natural remedies like cinnamon, which are often discredited as "hippie nonsense."

   

  Humphries explains that cinnamon, a powerful herb, contains significant vitamin C, a nutrient she believes underpinned the effectiveness of many traditional remedies.
  
  She recalls dismissing such ideas early in her career, only to later recognize their value.

   

  Garlic, too, emerges as a standout, effective against staph infections without fostering drug resistance - a stark contrast to engineered pharmaceuticals.
  
   

• This shift in perspective - from skepticism to appreciation - mirrors a broader theme

  The conventional medical establishment has a tendency to reject natural solutions in favor of standardized, profitable interventions.

   

  Humphries argues that doctors should recommend these remedies alongside conventional treatments, citing, for example, vitamin D and vitamin A as important yet underutilized tools.

Vaccines and Vitamin A - A Hidden Connection

The conversation pivots to a striking revelation about the measles vaccine.

Humphries explains that both natural measles infection and the vaccine deplete vitamin A levels in the body.

"They don't tell you that," she says, noting that post-vaccination advice often only recommends Tylenol, which she notes impairs immune response and causes "immunological disturbances."

 

• The medical system prioritizes standardized procedures over holistic care

  This vitamin A depletion, Humphries argues, should prompt vitamin A supplementation to be recommended along with the measles shot, but this advice is absent from standard protocols.

   

  This point underscores a recurring critique of the medical system focusing on disease care instead of health care.
  
   

• Variability in vaccine production contributes to inconsistent outcomes

  This problem is made worse by legal immunity granted to vaccine manufacturers.

   

  Rogan probes this further, asking if the 1986 National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act, which shields vaccine companies from lawsuits, fueled this variability.
  
  Humphries traces the precedent to the 1976 swine flu vaccine fiasco, where injuries forced the government to absorb liability, setting the stage for 1986's broader measure.
  
   

• Post-1986, vaccine makers prioritized profit over safety

  They introduced vaccine enhancers, or adjuvants, like aluminum and, eventually, mRNA technology.

   

  The legal protection afforded under the 1986 Act, she contends, allowed companies to prioritize profit over rigorous safety testing, a theme that reverberates throughout their discussion.

The Polio Paradox - Vaccines or Sanitation?

Polio remains the poster child for vaccine success, but Humphries challenges this narrative with a detailed historical analysis.

Rogan asks what caused polio's decline, questioning the vaccine's role.

Humphries responds that the facts don't align with popular belief.

"Polio is still here," she asserts, rebranded as conditions like Guillain-Barré syndrome - diagnostic criteria shifted post-vaccine to mask its persistence.

 

• Environmental factors - pesticides like DDT, arsenic and lead - are primary culprits

  DDT production, she notes, mirrored polio outbreaks, with rural communities exposed through livestock dipping and crop spraying.

"Arsenic causes the exact same spinal pathology," she says, citing medical references that link these toxins to symptoms attributed to polio.
 

• Up to 95% to 99% of polio cases are asymptomatic

  This suggests it's a virus naturally present and benign in healthy individuals.

   

  Humphries cites a study of the Xavante Indians in South America, where nearly all tested had immunity to polio strains without paralysis, implying robust natural immunity negated its threat.
  
  Rogan marvels at this, pointing out that viruses often weaken on their own and become less harmful over time - yet human interventions, like the 1916 Rockefeller lab's engineered polio strain, made it more deadly.
  
   

• The threat of vaccine-derived polio

  This is particularly related to oral vaccines still used in India and Israel.

   

  These live strains, she says, caused more paralytic cases than they prevented in early trials, a fact obscured by redefined diagnostics and propaganda.

   

  This complexity dismantles the simplistic "vaccine eradicated polio" story, pointing instead to sanitation, nutrition and reduced toxin exposure as key drivers of its decline.

Smallpox - A Tale of Sanitation and Suffering

Smallpox, another supposed vaccine triumph, faces similar scrutiny.

Humphries describes its vaccine as a crude concoction of animal pus - often from cows, horses or cadavers - mixed with glycerin and dubbed "pure lymph."

• Far from pure, these vaccines harbored bacteria and fungi

  Contamination persisted into the 20th century. Rogan is incredulous:

"Can you believe that fairy tale?" he asks, as Humphries details how these vaccines spread disease, including tuberculosis, a side effect she dubs "the white plague."

 

• Public health conditions amplified smallpox's toll

  Rogan paints a vivid picture: streets awash with feces, no running water and rampant malnutrition.

   

  Humphries agrees, noting that in the late 1600s, smallpox was "one of the easiest diseases to treat" with supportive care.

   

  The Industrial Revolution worsened conditions, cramming people into filthy slums where disease thrived.
  
  Death rates, she argues, plummeted not due to vaccines but alongside improvements in water, shelter and labor laws.

   

  Death rates from conditions like diarrhea, which had no vaccine, also declined during this time.
  
   

• Doctors of the era often worsened outcomes with toxic treatments

  Mercury, arsenic and bloodletting were prescribed until vomiting or diarrhea ensued.

   

  These "purges," meant to expel illness, instead debilitated patients.

   

  Yet, natural remedies like apple cider vinegar showed promise, with historical reports of doctors using it to prevent smallpox infection - a practice echoing its modern resurgence for gut health.

Natural Remedies Reclaimed

The dismissal of natural remedies frustrates both Rogan and Humphries.

"The hippies seem to have got it right," Rogan quips.

Humphries recounts treating tetanus - a vaccine-targeted disease - with vitamin C and wound care, achieving better outcomes than in vaccinated cases.

Studies, she says, show vitamin C prevents tetanus in rabbits if administered early, challenging the vaccine's necessity.

• Breast milk emerges as a nutritional powerhouse

  This food is rich in stem cells, immune factors and memory T-cells that confer cellular immunity.

   

  Humphries laments its replacement by formula, a profitable industry that downplays these benefits. Rogan agrees, decrying the arrogance of assuming artificial substitutes match nature's design.
  
   

• Vitamins A, D and C recur as unsung heroes

  Humphries ties vitamin A deficiency to vaccine side effects, vitamin D to immune resilience and vitamin C deficiency to hospital-acquired scurvy and more.

"Most people are walking around with subclinical scurvy," she warns, worsened by stress, smoking and poor diets - conditions vaccines can't fix.

The Dark Side of Vaccine Production

How do contaminants like SV40, a cancer-causing monkey virus, end up in vaccines?

Humphries explains the process: vaccines require living tissue - rotten meat for tetanus, monkey kidneys for polio, E. coli for COVID-19 mRNA shots.

SV40, harmless in monkeys, infiltrated polio vaccines via African green monkey kidneys, and remained undetected until Dr. Bernice Eddy flagged it in the 1950s.

Eddy's warnings were ignored and suppressed, and contaminated stocks persisted into the 1990s.

• Now transmissible among humans, SV40 enhances cancer-promoting genes

  It also inhibits cancer-suppressing genes, driving kidney, brain and lung tumors. Humphries links its introduction to rising cancer rates.
  
  Rogan is stunned:

"How could they keep injecting that into people?"

Humphries cites suppression - "any doubts... must not be allowed to exist" - and profit motives, noting research into SV40's long-term effects was axed despite clear correlations.
 

• COVID shots contain compounds that amplify side effects

  These effects include blood clots and stem cell loss in placentas. These issues went unreported amid media silence.

   

  This opacity, Humphries argues, reflects a system that prioritizes industry over inquiry.
  A Doctor's Awakening
  
  Humphries' journey from kidney doctor to advocate began with the 2008-2009 flu vaccine, which she linked to kidney failure in her patients.

"We're not told to take a vaccine history," she says, yet patterns emerged.

Many patients experienced high blood pressure and dialysis post-vaccination. Her requests to delay shots for chemotherapy patients were rebuffed, sparking her research into polio, smallpox and beyond.
 

• Humphries went on to co-author "Dissolving Illusions"

  The book was self-published after multiple rejections.

   

  The book, now in eight languages, challenges vaccine efficacy with statistics showing death rates dropped before widespread vaccination, driven by improved sanitation and nutrition.

   

  Threats followed, but she remains undeterred, determined to spread the word.
  
   

• Rogan, once a vaccine advocate, credits Humphries' book with shattering his illusions

"I would have told you vaccines saved us from polio," he admits, now seeing propaganda's power.

Humphries, meanwhile, urges a return to healing's roots - nutrition, natural remedies and patient-centered care.
 

• This conversation isn't anti-science; it's a call for true science

  It's time for open, unbiased debate, unshackled from profit and dogma. Humphries invites us to question, explore and reclaim health through knowledge, not blind trust.

   

  For more, visit dissolvingillusions.com, where Humphries' work continues to challenge and enlighten.

FAQs About Vaccines

Q: What is the main argument against the conventional narrative of vaccines?

A: The widely accepted belief that vaccines are solely responsible for the decline of diseases like polio and smallpox is oversimplified.

 

Improved sanitation, better nutrition and natural remedies played significant roles in reducing disease rates.
 

Q: How does vitamin A relate to vaccines, particularly the measles vaccine?

A: Both natural measles infection and the measles vaccine deplete vitamin A levels in the body, which may lead to negative health effects.

 

Humphries highlights that this depletion is rarely mentioned in standard medical advice, which often limits post-vaccination recommendations to Tylenol.

 

She argues that vitamin A supplementation should be advised alongside the measles vaccine to support immune health, a practice currently overlooked.
 

Q: What are the concerns about vaccine production and legal immunity?

A: Variability in vaccine production results in inconsistent safety and efficacy outcomes.

 

The legal immunity granted to vaccine manufacturers through the 1986 National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act, which protects them from lawsuits, is also problematic.

 

This legal shield has allowed vaccine manufacturers to prioritize innovation and profit over thorough safety testing, putting public health at risk.
 

Q: What are some of the issues with smallpox vaccines?

A: Early smallpox vaccines were crude, made from animal pus and often contaminated with bacteria and fungi, spreading diseases like tuberculosis.

 

Smallpox declined primarily due to improvements in sanitation, living conditions and nutrition - not the vaccine.
 

Q: What is SV40 and how did it end up in vaccines?

A: SV40 is a cancer-causing monkey virus that contaminated polio vaccines in the 1950s and 1960s.

 

It entered the vaccines because they were produced using monkey kidneys, and the virus went undetected until later flagged by Dr. Bernice Eddy.

 

Despite warnings, contaminated vaccines were used for years, contributing to increased cancer rates. This is as example of flaws in vaccine production and oversight.

Video