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Disclosure of UFO Information by Personnel in Military and Government: Stargate International's The Disclosure Conference of the Best Available UFO Military Evidence and An Assessment: An Evaluation of a Possible Military threat to Allied Forces in Europe The Shape Report (Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe)

Welcome back to Award-winning 21st Century Radio's Hieronimus & Co. I'm Dr. Bob Hieronimus.


My better half is Zoh Hieronimus, host of The #1 "Zoh Show" Monday through Friday 9-12. Our Executive Producer and Research Assistant is Laura Cortner. Our Engineer is Robin London-Dean.

Tonight we're focusing on the problem of America's shadow government concealing UFO information from We The People. If you can't accept the fact that our government would lie to the American public and disinform us about UFOs, then you've bought the Brooklyn Bridge. The Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) passed in 1966 has provided all the necessary evidence to substantiate our government's deception and disinformation campaign.


Over 30,000 pages of formerly top secret documents extricated from our the files of the NSA, FBI, CIA, NASA, Air Force, Army, Navy, etc. were once said not to exist. Today thanks to FOIA, these documents prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that the American public has been consciously and deliberately misled by officials on the subject of UFOs.

Remember what Dr. Steven Greer of CSETI said on 21st Century Radio two weeks ago? Over 90% of what we learn about UFOs from researchers, government and the media is disinformation! No wonder, so many nuts and bolts UFO researchers are prone to belittle his important efforts!

But how many journalists and broadcasters read primary UFO research that would tell them this? Many science reporters are gullible enough to swallow the government line that states that UFOs do not exist, and the military would not lie to the American public about UFOs. The reasons for the government duplicity may have been necessary at one time, but today they are no longer tenable.

The FOIA has also provided documentation directly from government sources of the,

  • visual and radar sightings of UFOs over Edwards Air Force Base in 1965

  • visual and radar sightings over Loring AFB in 1975 (Maine)

  • Malmstrom AFB (Montana)

  • Wurtsmith AFB (Michigan)

  • Minot AFB (North Dakota)

  • Grand Forks AFB (North Dakota)

  • Carson AFB (New Mexico)

  • Elgin AFB (Florida) Fort Ritchie Army Base in Maryland

  • a UFO landing at Kirkland AFB, New Mexico (1980)

Another question to ask yourself is: if UFOs don't exist, why has the military made it illegal for their servicemen to talk about unexplained UFO sightings?


In February of 1953, the Air Force issued Regulation 200-2, which instructed Air Force officers not to discuss UFO reports that were unsolved, and to classify the reports at restricted level. By December 1953, the Joint Chiefs of Staff issued a Navy-Air Force publication 146 which made the unauthorized release of UFO reports a crime under the Espionage Act, punishable by up to 10 years in prison and a $10,000 fine.

In 1969 "The ET Exposure Law" was passed under Title 14, Section 1211 during the Apollo 11 Lunar Mission. This law requires that if you are exposed to ETs you can be held indefinitely in quarantine by our government.

Now, how many times have you heard this expression of ignorance:

"If UFOs were real, our government and military would say so -- they have no reason to keep it a secret!"

Next time you hear that, ask the questioner: If our government and military don't believe UFOs exist, why have they made it against the law for their personnel to discuss positive UFO sightings, or even to come in contact with them?

Successful disinformation campaigns to cover up the existence of UFOs have been waged by NSA, CIA, FBI, NASA, U.S. Air Force, Navy and Army and are well documented. Our government and military do not want the American public to know that UFOs can penetrate our airspace and manipulate our missile guidance systems, and they are helpless to prevent it.


30,000 pages of testimony attest to this fact. No government wants its people to know that they are incapable of protecting their defense bases and citizens from an invasion.


The 1960 Report from the Brookings Institute "Proposed Studies on the Implications of Peaceful Space Activities for Human Affairs" which was delivered to the Chairman of NASA's Committee on Long Range Studies concluded that,

"Scientists and other decision makers might interfere with the release of ETI information even to the extent of withholding it altogether."

The FOIA has produced substantial proof that this has been and continues to be government policy.

Tonight we'll continue our UFO probe in order that our listeners and viewers can be prepared for some important revelations by our government before the year 2000. From an article we pulled off the Internet we learned that our first guest tonight, former NATO intelligence sergeant Robert Dean, has assembled 20 astronauts, former intelligence officers, generals and admirals who are willing to testify to a Congressional Committee about what they know about UFOs, provided that they are released from their national Security oaths.


The videotaped depositions of sworn key witnesses have been taken by a prestigious Washington, D.C. law firm, and stored in its safe, awaiting public hearings. Mr. Dean is working with CSETI's Dr. Steven Greer in concert with former astronaut Gordon Cooper, another high ranking military officer, and a General, to plan the release of UFO information to which they are privy. Dr. Greer and Sgt. Major Dean are part of a Coalition which has been putting together the best evidence of UFO/ET reality.


The evidence includes not only military autopsies on ET corpses, but also fighter pilots, generals, astronauts and cosmonauts who have witnessed UFOs close up, as well as UFO metal samples and ET tissue samples. The Coalition's plan is to take their Briefing Documents and evidence to world leaders, the U.N. scientific academies and religious leaders for a pre-briefing.


Then the Coalition will make a public Disclosure within the next 12 months. Dr. Greer reports that the White House, the Joint Chiefs of Staff at the Pentagon and the United Nations are being enlisted to assist, and no one has said that this cannot come out.

Is all of this true? That's why we've asked Bob Dean to join us during hour one to discuss this topic and update us on his other projects such as the Coalition for Honesty in Government. Next hour we'll be joined by Dr. C.B. Scott Jones who, according to this same article on the Internet, began the White House initiative to get the Clinton administration to make public what the government knows about UFOs and ET visitation.

Robert O. Dean, Command Sergeant Major (ret.) has been researching UFOs for 40 years. He served at Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe (SHAPE), NATO as an intelligence analyst with a Cosmic Top Secret clearance. After retiring from the Army in 1976, Robert worked for 14 years for the Federal Emergency Management Agency for both Pima County and the City of Tucson.


He is the former Pima County Section Director for the Mutual UFO Network (MUFON) and continues as a member at large. He's also a member of the Center for UFO Studies (CUFOS) and the Ancient Astronauts Society (AAS). Robert is a frequent speaker on local, national and international television programs and conferences around the world.


He has a Masters-Level Degree in Emergency Management and his present research involves the development of a process of synthesis to correlate, evaluate, and integrate data concerning the human/extraterrestrial intimate relationship.

Bob Dean was last with us on July 28, 1991 in our review of what he refers to as "An Assessment" which is basically what NATO knew about UFOs.

Welcome back to award-winning 21st Century Radio/TV News, Bob.

Bob Dean: Hello, Robert, it's good to be back. Thank you very much for that fine introduction.

Bob Hieronimus: You note that your involvement with UFOs began in the Spring of 1961 in a large military headquarters just outside of Paris. What were you doing there?

Bob Dean: Well, Robert, I was not there in '61 when the event occurred. On the 2nd of February in the very early hours of the morning there was an event that took place in 1961. It literally almost began World War III between us and the Soviets. At that time the Air Marshall, who was a Deputy Supreme Allied Commander in Europe, an Air Marshall by the name of Sir Thomas Tike initiated a study, an in-house military program to try to determine what in the world had been going on.


Literally we and the Soviets had almost begun shooting at each other at least half a dozen times because of fly-overs of large, metallic circular objects flying at a high altitude, at a high rate of speed all over central Europe during these Cold War years. Well the event in 1961 was simply the straw that broke the Air Marshall's back, literally. He said "We've had enough of this. We've come too close too many times to start shooting at each other. We're going to have to find out what this is all about."

So they initiated a study there in 1961, Robert, and I didn't arrive until 1963. But when I got there in the summer of 1963 and at that time I was assigned to the Supreme Headquarters Operations Center a place we called SHOC. I worked in the War Room and I had a Cosmic Top Secret Clearance. And a lot of the people in there at the time used to discuss this under way program, what it was all about, what it meant, how interesting it was to everybody. And literally, it was a common discussion among everyone in the classified section of the War Room.

When I arrived in 1963, I learned it was underway and Bob, I was there when they finalized it and published it in 1964. They literally changed my life. From that moment on I stopped being just a curious skeptic and I realized for the first time that this was not only real, but my God, this was probably the most important issue in the history of the human race. That's when I got involved with it.

Bob Hieronimus: There were up to at one time, 40-80 disk shaped objects over flying that particular area and that's one of the reasons why WWIII almost happened, is that correct?

Bob Dean: They used to fly out of the Soviet sector in the east. They would come out of Russia, deep in Russia, fly over the Warsaw Pact area, fly over the German area. As you know, Europe was divided right down the middle in those days. And these things would fly at a high speed at a high altitude in formation, very obviously under intelligent control. And for a time, the Soviets thought they were ours, and actually for a short time we thought they might have been the Soviets.


And here we are geared up with our fingers on the triggers and our thumbs poised on the red buttons and the last damn thing we needed back in those years was starting WWIII at the wrong time for the wrong reason. But these things were stirring up all kinds of military trouble. They would fly around our jet pilots, they would fly around our fighters. They would fly over and come over and hover over our Air Force bases and they just stirred everything up something awful. The military finally said we'd had enough of this, we're going to have to find out what's going on.

Bob Hieronimus: Well, we'll get to that assessment after we take a break here.

Bob Dean: Well that's how I finally got involved with it Robert.

Bob Hieronimus: Well, what a dramatic way to do it, Bob!

Bob Dean: What a jolt that was for me.

Bob Hieronimus: Well, we're going to find out what the assessment was. It was 8 inches thick as you note, well illustrated. We're going to find out who compiled it, what was in it, and where are copies of it, if the copies exist today, when we come back.

Bob Dean: Well, that was only the tip of the iceberg.

Bob Hieronimus: Our guest is Robert O. Dean who was telling us about NATO's Assessment of the UFO situation and his plans for a Disclosure Conference for high ranking personnel to go public with their UFO information.......... Robert, "An Assessment" -- the purpose of it was to gather all available information on UFOs so that WWIII would not be caused by misidentification of UFOs. Let's review this document. When was it published?

Bob Dean: Well, they began it in 1961, Bob and they published it in 1964, late summer. I was in the SHOC at the time, in the War Room. When this thing finally came out, they only published it in 15 copies. It was given a Cosmic Top Secret clearance, and it was the most sensitive document that NATO had at the time.

  • Copy 1 went to the Secretary General of NATO.

  • Copy 2 was sent to the office of my boss, General Lyman Linditser (sp?) who was known at that time as the Supreme Allied Commander in Europe.

  • Copy 3 was placed in the vault in the War Room and each and every one of us who were in there and worked there on shifts could see this thing and read it.

And as you said earlier, it was about 8 inches thick. The original document itself was roughly an inch and a half, but it was supported by 6-8 inches of annexes and appendices. It had a sub-title called "An Evaluation of a Possible Military Threat to Allied Forces in Europe".

It was a military study with a very finely focused military goal. To determine did we or did we not have a threat. And when they concluded in 1964, the conclusions were absolutely earth shaking, at least in my opinion. Because not only did they conclude that there was no military threat involved, but my God, some of the indications that they came up with, this study this alien involvement had been going on for an extremely long time.

Bob Hieronimus: Extremely long time -- in the area of thousands of years.

Bob Dean: Well, they said hundreds if not thousands, yeah. They determined, when this thing was published that we were dealing with at least four different groups. Four different alien intelligences or civilizations out there.

Bob Hieronimus: Did it describe them? Where they what we know of today as the Greys?

Bob Dean: The group at the time, there were just four that they knew of for certain and the Greys were one of those groups. There was a group that looked exactly like we do. There was a human group that looked so much like us that that really drove the admirals and the generals crazy because they determined that these people, and they had seen them repeatedly, they had had contact with them, there had been abductions, there had been contacts.


These people looked so much like us they could sit next to you on a plane or in a restaurant and you'd never know the difference. And being military and being primarily paranoid, that bothered the generals and the admirals a little bit. That the fact that these intelligent entities could be involved with us, walking up and down the corridors of SHAPE, walking down the corridors of the Pentagon. My God, it even dawned on a couple of them that these guys could even be in the White House! Of course, as I said, being paranoid in those years it really shook things up a little bit.

Two other groups, there was a very large group, I say large, they were 6-8 maybe sometimes 9 feet tall and they were humanoid, but they were very pale, very white, didn't have any hair on their bodies at all. And then there was another group that had sort of a reptilian quality to them. We had encountered them, military people and police officers all over the world have run into these guys. They had vertical pupils in their eyes and their skin seemed to have a quality very much like what you find on the stomach of a lizard. So those were the four they knew of in 1964. But I've been told by friends that are still active in military service that it's well over a dozen by now.

Bob Hieronimus: I think David Webb points to the possibility that there may be scores of different types. Very fascinating. Now, but they are considered to be peaceful and that they are so advanced that they could have taken over our planet by now...

Bob Dean: Those were the conclusions, Bob in 1964, they had studied repeated examples and there were demonstrations of their technology that were repeated continually and I think they were done on purpose. We concluded from the repeated demonstrations of their extremely advanced technology that if they were malevolent or hostile that it would have been over a long time ago.


So they determined that there was probably not a military threat involved. That this thing was involved a lot more than just that, that it had been going on for a very long time and the advanced technology they demonstrated made it very clear that if they had something in mind like taking our real estate, my God, they could have done it a long time ago.

Bob Hieronimus: And also, there was inclusion of a crash retrieval in Bremen Germany? Is that correct?

Bob Dean: Well, it happened near the little town of Timensdorfer in northern Germany. This happened in 1964 in the early spring before they published the study in the late summer of 1964. A 30 meter disk crashed near the Baltic sea just a mile or two from the little town of Timensdorfer and that was in Western Germany but it was very very close to the dividing line, the line that divided East Germany from West Germany. It happened within 1/2 mile of the Baltic Sea.


This 30 meter disk crashed and when the British army got inside of it, they found that there were 12 small bodies inside of this thing and that really shook them up. There was one complete annex in the assessment on the autopsies. I read the reports and I looked at the photographs and as I said, my God, talk about being in a state of shock. I was in shock, in SHOCK, you might say.

Bob Hieronimus: Robert, this is 30 some years ago. Thirty some years!

Bob Dean: Let me tell you something even worse than that, Bob. Yeah, this happened 30 years ago, and the question arises why don't the American people know more about what's been going on than they do? But when we finally found out what was happening, Robert, I was to learn later that the U.S. Air Force and U.S. Army and our government knew basically the same things that we concluded in the SHAPE study in 1964. My government, your government knew these very same things as early as 1949. And they had never shared any of this with the American people.


That's the kind of thing that really bothers me. It's not the alien involvement, it isn't the extra-terrestrial matter. The thing that troubles me the most as an old retiree, as an ex-serviceman, is that I see my constitution being trashed by a few arrogant, elite bureaucrats in government that were never elected to make these policy decisions, Bob. And these guys are keeping the lid on this thing and keeping the greatest secret in history from the American people and that's the thing that I resent the most.

It isn't just the reality of the extra-terrestrial thing. That's a given. As I said, our government knew that as early as 1949. SHAPE learned that in 1964, but when you stop to think that this great secret, this great reality is being denied to the people by an elite group of bureaucrats who were never elected, and who do not have the authority to keep this from the people, that's the thing that worries me and troubles me the most. I see my constitution being trashed and I don't like it one bit and I'm damn near ready to start fighting about it. That's why I'm doing what I'm doing and why we're holding these conferences and why we're pushing so hard for a congressional hearing on this matter.

Not only do I believe that the people have the right to know the truth, they have a need to know the truth and I believe their government should be honest with them about this.

Bob Hieronimus: We're going to get to those conferences in just a minute. I just have a couple more preliminary questions to set it up. Your belief in UFOs caused you some extreme problems job-wise. Tell us what unfolded in Pima County in 1990-1992?

Bob Dean: That was quite a case, wasn't it?

Bob Hieronimus: That was terrible, and yet I'll mention what a caller who called in to Zoh's show last week mentioned, something right after you relate this story because I think it's very significant how this was handled.

Bob Dean: I had retired from the military in 1976 and in 1977 I began working for Tucson Pima County Emergency Services. At that time we were funded by the Federal Emergency Management Agency and we became a part of the Pima County Sheriff's Department not long after that. I was a professionally trained Emergency Services Manager for many, many years. But in 1991, my boss retired after with more than 30 years of service with the city and the county.


His job was open and I and about 65 other people applied for it. Well, we went through the whole hiring process and what happened finally was that the number one person who had been selected for the job was a friend of mine, a young woman who worked in Phoenix. She turned the job down and number two on the list was myself. They never gave me the job. They never offered it to me, and I'm standing there with my mouth hanging open wondering what in the world is going on.

I applied for it, went through the whole hiring process and at the end of this thing they denied me the position and I took them to task. I said why? Well, they never gave me an honest answer. Finally I filed a grievance, got myself an attorney, went through the county hiring procedures, went through the county civil rights procedures, even went to the state of Arizona. And I got continual support from everybody indicating that I was the most qualified, I should have the job, they should have given it to me.


I finally got my attorney to hold their feet to the fire, Bob and we found out that they denied me the position because of my interest in UFO research. My attorney at that time had a fit. He says what in the world does this have to do with anything?

Well, we went through two years of litigation. It took me $31,000 of savings. I had to take a second mortgage out on my house. In 1993, one week before a jury trial, they decided to settle with me out of court. They knew that they were going to lose this thing if we had gone to a jury trial. So one week before the jury they settled with me out of court. I got the job, I got the back pay, I got the retirement, I got all of the things I had asked for and I expected.

But damn it Bob, I had to fight these people for two years, going in debt and I had to stand by for two years and watch the chief law enforcement officer of Pima County be defended by the county attorney's office for violating the law. And on top of that, the county attorney's office was defending the sheriff with county funds for violating the law! And boy, that stuck in my craw. I mean, I couldn't believe that they were so arrogant about this and the fact that I had been denied the position because of my interest in the UFO matter.

Well, finally I won the case as I said one week before the jury trial and after that was over with I decided I didn't trust these guys anymore. I couldn't work with them, I didn't have any respect for them so I retired. I took my retirement, I took the years of service, my pension and I walked away. I was so angry at that time that that's when I literally came out of the closet in a big way and began speaking out about this issue. Bob, I consider this matter to be really the most important issue in the history of the human race, and that's why I'm speaking out so openly and so bluntly about it and I'm encouraging other old codgers, other retired servicemen like myself to do the same.

Bob Hieronimus: Well I'm glad you are, Bob, I really am. But in my introduction to this hour I read from an Internet release that claims you have assembled 20 astronauts, former intelligence officers, generals and admirals who are willing to testify at a congressional committee about the UFO experiences. Is this statement true?

Bob Dean: That's true.

Bob Hieronimus: The release also noted you were working with Dr. Steven Greer on this project -- correct?

Bob Dean: Steven and I have been friends for some time. I admire that young man, he's got a lot of drive and he feels very strongly about this issue as do I. I've been a member of his organization, CSETI for some time. So I support Steven in his efforts and he's been supporting me in mine. Together we have made some progress. We're both members of a coalition, CSETI and Stargate International, which is the organization that I founded.

Bob Hieronimus: As a matter of fact, we're going to get to Stargate International in just a couple of minutes after we take our break. Is it allowable to give any of the names of these generals, admirals and astronauts without putting them in any jeopardy at this time?

Bob Dean: I can give a few names of those who have put themselves in jeopardy already. I will be glad to share that. Many of the others are still hoping for an open hearing in congress. And they're hoping for congressional immunity. Some of them in this old boys network still have kids in college and they're paying off mortgages on houses in Virginia and so on. These people don't deserve to have this sword hanging over their head like this. Just simply for telling the truth. So I'll get into that detail...

Bob Hieronimus: Go right ahead.

Bob Dean: What we call it is the Old Boy's Network. The latest count I had was about 185 of us altogether. We lose someone along the way from time to time. It's the old story of the Grim Reaper. Many of us are in our 60's, some of us are in our 70's. We lose an old buddy now and then but we still have about 185 people and in that group we have admirals, generals, retirees from all services. We have about 10 astronauts that are active members of this.


We even have 4 cosmonauts from the Soviet Union, Bob, who have volunteered to participate with us on this program. One of them is a three star Russian general who is still on active duty. His name is Pavel Popovitch (sp?). Pavel is willing to fly over here and testify in an open congressional hearing on what the Russians and the Soviets knew about this subject for many, many years.

As I said, we've got a few people in this group that are still active. They're major generals, there's one that's a brigadier general in the Marine Corps. There's a major general in the Air Force, there's a three star general in the Army who is planning to retire very soon. Some of these guys have kids in college, they have mortgages on houses, and as you mentioned earlier, they face 10 years in prison, a $10,000 fine, and a forfeiture of all pay and allowances forever, literally! That's got to stop, Bob.

Bob Hieronimus: Well, you know, Robert, most American people are not aware of that, that's why I brought that out in the very beginning of the show because most of the people that I've talked to in the past, the people in the media don't read. You know that all too well. They don't do any research, especially in this particular area. They get government release in their hand and that's fine. If NOVA does something on PBS, they take the information from NOVA as being gospel and it's over.

Bob Dean: I fault the media for that. I don't like that and I raise a little hell about that.... I was just about to mention some of the names of some of the astronauts that I've seen bandied about. Some have joined us in the past. Gordon Cooper has...has been very open and very honest about it. As you probably know, Gordon's health is not good. I think he's suffering from Parkinson's disease. He's two years older than I am.


Gordon feels the same way I do that, damn it, it's time to tell the truth that the people have been lied to far too long. So he's been very outspoken and very honest about it. There's another one, Ed Mitchell who founded the Noetic Sciences Institute, who walked on the moon. Ed Mitchell has been very candid and honest and forthcoming about his views and his feelings and the knowledge that he knows. But we've got a whole bunch of others that are teetering right on the edge.

Bob Hieronimus: Is James Lovett going to come out?

Bob Dean: Well we're hopeful. We've got Brian O'Leary, the young man who was part of the Mars program for a time. He was supposed to be one of the astronauts flying to Mars. Brian has been very open and honest about this matter. So we've got a number of them that are quite outspoken but we expect to have maybe 15 or 20 more within the next year.

Bob Hieronimus: One last thing about Gordon Cooper and Parkinson's disease. Is he in any way treating it homeopathically or through acupuncture or anything like that?

Bob Dean: I don't know exactly what his medical treatment is Bob, I know that he has it under control. I talked to him just a few days ago, and he's active in business. He's trying very hard to keep his hand in.

Bob Hieronimus: We need to take a break here then when we come back, we're going to talk about Stargate International and then Coalitions for Honesty in Government. Now these are two very important programs especially Coalitions for Honesty in Government because boy, do we need it! We have a bunch of people within government that are not paying attention to,... many of them, I would say, Robert do not even know what the constitution is. They're willing to give it up, they don't seem to understand it's importance especially with respect to what America has achieved, planetary wise.

Our guest is Robert O. Dean who is telling us about NATO's assessment of the UFO situation and we're going to get to his plans for a disclosure conference for high ranking personnel to go public with their information. That's 185, as he calls them: Old Boys Network. It's just wonderful to know that we still have those kind of citizens in this country.

...Stargate International you note was created to present educational forums to the public on ET visitation and contact. Will you tell us about it, please?

Bob Dean: Yes, Bob, I'll try to give you a little bit of a background on Stargate. It was made up by myself, my wife and a few close friends who decided that the time had come, literally for the truth to be told and the people to be educated about what's really going on in this country. I agreed with your statement earlier that the American people literally have not been paying attention. They've been allowing their constitutional system to be whittled away on them by these damn bureaucrats that were never elected to make policy. I think that they need to be educated.


We're starting this Stargate program literally an educational program to take it into the schools and the universities and to take it to the grass roots people and travel throughout the country and provide them information, factual information, films, books, videos, photographs, all of it we have, and tell them look, you've been asleep, you've been dozing, you're being lied to by your government. It's time to wake up and realize what's been going on here. We've got the most important issue in the history of the human race and you've got to get involved, you've got to pay attention, you've got to inform yourselves as to what in the world is happening.

Well, that's basically what Stargate is all about. As a result of that, Stargate has sponsored a conference or two over the last couple of years. We've got another one in the mill we're going to try to present this coming October. Initially we were trying to target sometime in June for this thing, but we've got so many people who want to attend and so many of the Old Boys who want to participate that we're going to probably have to do it in October rather than June.


We're going to have this disclosure conference right here in Tucson. We're going to have the stage filled for three days with a whole lot of old retirees, men hove been in very important positions over the years. I'm hopeful to have a general or two on the podium. We're going to do that this fall [Ed. note: postponed due to illness] and we're going to try and bluntly tell the American people the time has come to wake up, the time has come to participate, pay attention, involve yourself in this matter and I figured that if they won't listen to a bunch of old retirees, I'm talking about Navy, Air Force, Army, Marines. If they won't listen to us, my God, who in the world will they listen to?

Your next guest on that program is a friend of mine, a guy by the name of C.B. Scott Jones. He's a retired Navy Commander. I'm hoping that maybe C. B. will join us, but I know he will be a part of it on the hill when we get to open congressional hearings. I know that he will be part of that. He's been doing a great deal of work in this area. I commend him for that. When he comes on, give him my regards if you will.

That's what Stargate is all about, basically. The other thing that Stargate is pushing, not just the conferences and the open hearings but we want an open hearing, Bob, on Capitol Hill. We want it either in the House or the Senate and we will be happy if it would be a joint effort. We want open hearings, no more closed doors. We had too many of them. We want these guys to be given congressional immunity for violating their National Security Act.


Literally, we want the threat of going to prison removed for them for simply telling the American people the truth. That troubles me a lot. That somebody like myself and I'm teetering on the edge here. I'm threatened by this every time I open my big mouth. That you can go to prison for 10 years and pay a $10,000 fine and lose all of your pay, allowances and retirement simply for telling the American people the truth. Well, I think the time has come, Bob for the truth to be told and that's what I'm involved with.

Bob Hieronimus: Doesn't it seem strange that most Americans when they hear of such laws, first they don't that such laws exist. Doesn't it seem strange that if UFOs didn't exist, why in the world would it be necessary to have such laws as 146 or 200-2 or any of the others. If UFOs didn't exist, why would you need these laws?

Bob Dean: That's part of the absurdity, you see. Why in the world would you need laws like that if UFOs weren't real? Well, if anybody were paying attention, Bob they would immediately know that there must be something behind this. Why would you pass a law like that? Well of course UFOs are real. Of course alien intelligence is here. We've known that for over 40 years but it's a lot bigger story than that, Bob. It's not simply the extraterrestrial involvement. It's a whole complete history of the human race that's involved here.

Bob Hieronimus: One other thing that I wanted to ask you. You worked with FEMA and I think that's obviously going to stand you in good stead in the years to come because I don't think our planet is going to be the same in the years to come as it is right now.

Bob Dean: I'm afraid you're right.

Bob Hieronimus: So that you know how to prepare yourself to survive, is that right?

Bob Dean: We're teaching other people to do the same thing.

Bob Hieronimus: Would you recommend that people learn more and more about survival as the years go on here?

Bob Dean: Well Bob, I'm glad you asked that because that's a very important issue. Having spent 14 years with FEMA, I'm a great believer in preparedness. We are in for some very difficult times ahead. There's no question about it. Not only geologically, we are in for some rather blunt surprises from mother nature herself, I'm afraid. But the sociological chaos in the years ahead is going to be pretty tremendous. I simply advise people to use a little common sense. I ask them to do what your grandfathers and great-grandfathers and mine did years ago and that is simply be prepared for a bad day.


Stock a few candles. Stock a little bit of kerosene for the lamps. Have a little extra emergency water on hand. Put a little bit of extra food aside. Get some stuff that won't spoil, dried beans and rice and a few things like that. I believe this is simply good common sense. It's what people are faced with when they have a terrible flood or an earthquake or a fire. Your ancestors and mine and most of the Americans who settled this country knew these things. They always had a larder, they always had a storeroom with a few basics in it. As a professionally trained Emergency Management Specialist I would simply ask people to be a little bit prepared for these things.

Bob Hieronimus: I can't think of almost anything that's more important if you love your family, your children, your friends.

Bob Dean: We have a number of good Mormon people out here in the west. A lot of them are my dear friends and they've taken that very same approach. The Mormon church teaches plan, be prepared because things are going to be very difficult. If you care about your kids, I mean damn it, you want to put a little bit on the side so you can help them through some difficult times. That's only common sense, Bob.

Bob Hieronimus: You and your wife, Cecilia, have been serving as honorary directors of several research expeditions in 1996 through Beyond Boundaries. You've already gone to Puerto Rico?

Bob Dean: Oh, yes.

Bob Hieronimus: You know what's going on down there... Could you tell us what's going on down there?

Bob Dean: Bob, that's another scandal. I don't know what we can do about it unless we can get the people to wake up and pay attention. As you know, Puerto Rico is a territory. It doesn't have the same privileges as a state. There's U.S. Federal representation everywhere. There are Army bases, Air Force bases, Naval bases all over the island. But there's also something else very, very strange going on down there. When I was down there I visited, was a guest of Jorge Martin, a young researcher down there in San Juan.


We visited a beautiful mountain down there just outside of San Juan and the place was literally crawling with Wackenhut World Technology Security people all over the place. Now these people are the same guys that guard Groom Lake, Site 51, and every time I turned around, I was seeing Wackenhut Security keeping Jorge and I under the glasses and once or twice I even turned and walked toward them and they turned and drove away real fast.


But there's something weird going on in Puerto Rico and the government's up to it's ear bones in it. It involves extraterrestrial involvement. The American people have a right to know what in the world is going on down there. Damn it, the truth has got to be told, Bob. I ramble a bit about this matter then I get so angry I'm a bit fractious about it. But the time has come to tell the American people the truth. The greatest story in history is unfolding and they're totally ignorant about it.

Bob Hieronimus: In your opinion, when will the U.S. Government disclose the fact that UFOs exist? Do you think it will be before the year 2000?

Bob Dean: Yes, I think it's probably going to be before the end of 1997. I think things are going to be happening Bob that are going to force them to come forward.

Bob Hieronimus: I wish we had more time. I want to thank you for joining us Bob, and I hope you will join my wife, Zoh in the coming months to update us on your progress and perhaps in late September, 1996 you'll join us once again to promote the disclosure conference because we think that's extremely important.

Bob Dean: Thanks for inviting me Bob, and give my regards to C. B. Scott Jones.