Karma One: What do you think
about the Holographic model of reality that emerge from the
David Bohm (3D reality as hologram) and Pribram
(memory, brain works like an hologram, the "memory" is note
store in a precise zone of the brain but everywhere and nowhere)
Gerry Zeitlin: It is not a useful model. Bohm and Pribram
noticed that certain aspects of nature – quantum systems and
brain functions – shared some of the properties of holograms, a
hot technology of their time.
No serious scientist should
conclude that those systems are holograms, but these two
otherwise serious scientists seemed more intent on popularizing
themselves, so they did.
Karma One: Matter is an illusion, full of emptiness. Atoms and
quantum particles shows us that "solid matter" don't really
exist. It is just an illusion. What do you think of it?
That's correct, but "solid matter" the way we think of it could
not exist. Meanwhile, as long as the illusion continues to
behave the way we expect it to, who can complain?
Karma One: Yes but many people complains about reality. They
suffer from it and feels that something is wrong ?
Gerry Zeitlin: When I said "who can complain", all I meant was
that the illusion is dependable so we can live our lives with
it. For example, if it were like a dream, in which a thing is
one thing one moment but another thing the next time you looked
at it, this could be cause for a complaint in the way I meant
it. You couldn't get along if you tried to hammer a nail and
found you had a noodle in your hand and the nail had become a
gateway to the stars.
And YET... we DO suffer by taking the illusion so seriously. It
would be better if we knew that the hammer is not a hammer and
the nail is not a nail and all the things of which we are so
certain are not at all certain. But, knowing that, we continue
to "chop wood, carry water".
I object to calling reality a hologram, though, because a
hologram is a piece of 20th century technology. In other words,
it falls short.
I notice that Icke says it's really an Internet. You see, that's
just the NEXT THING. What will it be in ten years? I fail to see
the benefit of treating everything this way.
Karma One: Do you believe that the reality is the result of a
consensus between minds, between conscious of each individual.
Like Jung says, the result of the collective unconscious?
Gerry Zeitlin: There is no way to know if the consensus is the
cause or the result of reality's behaving the same way for
everyone, or if the "collective unconsciousness" is real.
Karma One: Do you think that we are trapped in our own believe,
our own perception of reality? Some people like Michael Talbot
and David Icke think that the reality is a kind of perceptual
Matrix, just an illusion in 3D (plus Time dimension). If we
change together in the same time the way we decided to feel the
world, the reality and the nature of this Matrix will change?
Gerry Zeitlin: I agree that it is a virtual reality display, but
it is mediated by our neurosensory system, and therefore cannot
easily be changed unless that system itself is changed. Do we
have the ability to change our neurosensory systems? I would bet
that we do to some varying degree.
For example, the infant's
developing neurosensory system changes in response to genetic
directives, the environment, and perhaps the inborn
consciousness. But for most of us as adults, that system is
pretty difficult to change.
Karma One: Do you think that we can say that the "Authority", or
what we call the future
One World Government and the religion
etc. want to reinforce the power of this Matrix by telling us
what to believe and to disbelieve, what to like or dislike ?
Gerry Zeitlin: Yes, via elaborate systems that are in place and
Karma One: Can we compare this Matrix to the Gnostic perception
of the World. The man fall in a imperfect universe, an error
created by a mistaken Eon and guarded by the Rulers or
Gerry Zeitlin: The mistaken Aeon and the Archon rulers or guards
occur in many systems of thought, and so there is likely to be a
kernel of truth in this story.
It is only too perfectly clear
that humans inhabit an "imperfect universe", when seen from the
level on which we usually operate. However I believe that seen
from a "higher" level there is a purpose to all this and the
system actually is "perfect".
Karma One: Do you see the film "The Matrix"? In this film, we
are in fact battery, just energy to make the Matrix work. Our
fear of being disconnected from the Matrix or abnormal is the
best cohesion tool used by the "Agent" of the Matrix to trap us.
What do you think about this metaphor?
Gerry Zeitlin: I think it is a very good metaphor. However I
sense that the agents don't realize they are themselves being
used by a higher system.