Gary Voss: Do you want to
give us an intro on how you and Otis Carr came together and what
your background was at the time, and then bring us up to date?
Kerry: And how you worked with Jacques Cousteau?
Ralph: OK. Yeah. That's a good place to start. I got out
of the service in '54. When I was in the service I was stationed
on Guam. And they had the Korean outbreak and they shipped us
out in the middle of the night to Korea. And I made the Inchon
landing and I went through that situation, which was kind of
I got wounded about four times, and had frostbite and so forth.
And I became very, very discouraged with the military. Totally.
Because of, you know, everything. And I was an objector from the
start on killing people, so I'd shoot in the air or whatever.
They didn't care much for me.
While I was on Guam, the Marines would fight with the Army and
the Army would fight with the Navy - at bars. They'd go out and
have fistfights. And I preferred to go down to the beach and
look around and I finally got into scuba diving... skin diving,
actually, with a snorkel, and found a whole new environment
under water and I became fascinated with it.
And so I kept
developing that until the outbreak in Korea.
When I got back to the States I was in heavy weapons. I was with
the 3rd Division, 7th Regimental Combat Unit, which is nothing
more than machine guns, heavy mortars, and big artillery. Even
though I put in for engineering school continuously in my time
in the service, they kept putting me back in the infantry.
So when I got out I didn't have much to go on except my interest
in diving. So I started a diving business, a skin diving, scuba
diving business, in San Francisco and eventually graduated down
to Southern California where my family was, my relatives and
stuff, in Newport Beach and Costa Mesa, California. And I met my
first wife and we got married and had a couple of children.
And I was diving on my own then. I was doing a lot of diving. I
was doing abalone diving, research and development diving, and
recovery diving. And it was going along well but my wife didn't
like the idea that I'd be away for a couple of days on the boat,
and stuff, 'cause the kids were growing up and they needed their
dad, and so forth.
So, to make a long story short, I went to work for the
manufacturing plant, at that time, for US Divers, was located in
Costa Mesa, or Santa Ana. And so I went to work for US Divers
which had developed the SCUBA, you know, Jacques Cousteau's
scuba gear. And right away we hit it off because I am constantly
a researcher and developer myself.
So I went into the research and development department and we'd
take trips out to Catalina. My job was to test the wrap-around
masks, at one stage. Anyway, I got really involved with that,
but we'd stay out longer and longer on research trips. And my
wife was getting very insistent that I get something a little
less dangerous and a little more domestic at home. [laughs]
she found this ad in the paper and said,
"Advance Kinetics is
advertising. They need lab techs, laboratory technicians, and
research technicians. Why don't you go check? Because your
interest has always been in science and you're always 'off.'"
(When I get home I'm always tearing things apart and stuff.)
So I went over there and it was lunch time. Everybody was out to
So I was walking down the hall and I passed the
Director's office, Dr. Weinhart.
And he says, "What are you
And I says, "Well, I'm looking for a job. You had an ad in
And he says, "Well, they're all out to lunch."
And he says,
"Come in. Let's talk. What have you done and what is your
"I don't have any credentials except bumblebees and lizards
and things that I've studied and I've found out that there's
quite a bit credibility to natural law that I apply to
things and it always works."
So he said, "Magnetics? You're interested?"
I said, "Yeah. I've studied magnetics all my life. I love
"Well, you know, coincidentally, the guy that was working
our magnetic project just left."
And, "Come to work tomorrow
morning. You're going on the magnetic project."
And I said, "Fine. Great."
So what it was... I had a bench, a
workbench and there was a cathode ray tube shooting, firing
electrons (and I had an oscilloscope mounted with camera, high
speed camera, high speed everything) through a magnetic field. I
was firing electrons.
And he said,
"Take pictures of them. The
idea, your goal, is to get one electron completely through the
field without deflection, without it being pulled to the
positive or negative."
I said, "Fine," you know. "No problem.
It's an easy job."
So I just kept taking pictures - quite
extensive, and expensive. Every day, you know, it was about
$1,000 worth of work every day that was paid for by the
taxpayers for the research. And I started questioning it.
affiliation with nature told me that they were using force.
Voss: Brute force.
Ralph: Brute force. And it doesn't work with the laws of nature.
Voss: No. It doesn't.
Ralph: So I said, "This is never going to work. I
can appreciate this guy leaving. He got fed up." And I was
getting there fast. So I went home. And I had gone to garage
sales and collected, you know... I had an audio amplifier. I had
a frequency generator. I had different things at home, and I
tore apart a TV and got a cathode ray.
I started the experiment on a small
scale on my living room floor. And I set it all up and got
everything the way I felt it should work. And, instead of
forcing the electron, I pulsed them. I just gave them a pulse. And that's all
I did. And they, on their own, started a circular motion.
Voss: Traveling in their own pattern, and how much they wanted
to at a specific moment.
Ralph: Yeah. And they went from negative to positive, all the
way through to the end of the...
Voss: Just feeding it back to the source.
Ralph: And I said, "My god, that was simple." Because the first
shot went through. And then I did many, many more and they all
went through without deflection at all. So, I'm happy. This is
going to get me a raise, maybe.
So, then the next experiment: On the bench next to me they were
working on levitation.
Voss: Who's "they"?
Ralph: Other technicians, other engineers were working.
Voss: And what department were they?
Ralph: Advanced kinetics. The laboratory was huge and we had
different work benches. They were working on lasers to the moon,
Voss: So there were different interests involved in some of the
projects as well.
Ralph: The government was funding this. This was all government
Voss: Department of the Army?
Ralph: I don't know.
Kerry: To get back to your story, though. So you had developed
this pulsing, and you're saying, next door...
Ralph: The next bench over they were working on levitation. And
they had... just coils... you know, iron with copper wiring. And
they had steel balls and they would put them on top and fire it
up and they would levitate the ball for, I think, 4 to 8
minutes, and it would burn the coil out.
They were called 'igliotrons',
I believe, was the correct term for them.
And they'd have to go to supply and
get another one, and get another one. And they were burning up
two or three or four of these. And in those days (that was the
'50s) they were like $400 a copy. And they were, just, "We don't
care. We've got plenty of them." And they were
burning these things up.
So the other experiment I did at home was, I took a 15-inch
woofer speaker that I got at a garage sale, or, I don't know,
out of a sound system somewhere. And I put it just flat on the
carpet on my living room floor and attached my audio amplifier
to it and I started experimenting with, like, acoustical
levitation, thinking, you know, they were using this force to
push up, and they were using a lot of power. I'll try sound
waves, I'll try sympathetic vibrations or whatever.
So I fooled around with different objects and I'd have tentative
results. They'd start pulsing and stuff. But then I put a
ping-pong ball in the center and I kept fooling, and I think it
was at 28,000 cycles I got the ping-pong ball to come up.
Voss: Interesting that you mention that because I recall seeing
a news clip back in 1989 showing that scientists "discovered"
how to do exactly what you just described.
Kerry: Which you had done, in the '60s or something? The '50s?
Ralph: The '50s. The solution was quite simple. It could be done
today. It could be duplicated today I suppose. I've never tried
it. I didn't need to go back to it. But it was a very simple
operation because you let nature do all the work. And all I did
was understand what was happening. So, the thing with the
ping-pong ball, once I got it to levitate I was excited as heck.
And my wife said, "Come to bed. Come to bed." So I went to bed
and the next morning when I woke up the ping-pong ball was still
Kerry: Levitating? That's amazing.
Ralph: Levitating. I think it was 28,000 cycles.
Voss: No heat?
Ralph: No heat.
Kerry: Just sound?
Ralph: Acoustical sound. That was all it was.
Voss: Was it audible to the human ear?
Ralph: No. I couldn't hear a thing.
Voss: So you're talking perhaps high frequency levels, or ultra
Ralph: Yeah. Yeah. You know, I experimented down in the lower
ranges and nothing seemed to happen. It would bounce and stuff.
But when I got up...
Voss: In the UHF.
Ralph: [nods] Yeah. Then it happened. So I thank my wife for
pushing into that direction because this is my field. This is
what I always wanted to do. And I think, "We're on to something
here." And I could put my two cents into the pot and help
humanity do something.
Kerry: Way back then, you knew all this.
Ralph: Oh yeah.
Kerry: And so you took it to these guys, right? And how did they
Ralph: I took it to Dr. Weinhart himself. I took Polaroids and I
wrote up papers on it, just like I did at the lab and I took it
in to Dr. Weinhart.
And he says,
"Close the door. Come in. Sit down."
He looked it
all over and stuff and he said,
"Yeah, I know it's that simple,
Ralph. I know that. I know that. But this is a government-funded
research facility. We count on the funds to keep us going. We're
not necessarily interested right now in finding the answers.
We're interested in looking for them. And we get paid handsomely
for looking for the answers."
And I said,
"Well, here, look. This works. I mean, maybe I don't
know what I'm doing and maybe it's not right, but I thought if I
turned it over to the boys here we can come together. And this a
lot simpler than $400 a copy for igliotrons and wasting our time
with the cathode that you've got set up."
And he said,
"I can appreciate what you've come up with. And I
didn't think you'd get there this fast with this because of your
interest in natural law but I'm going to have to shred this." (He
had a shredder right there.)
"I'm going to have to shred this and
tell you to go back to work on what you were doing."
Well, right there my whole world collapsed. I mean... I thought,
"Where am I?"
My whole attitude, my whole demeanor toward the
Voss: Yeah. Who are these people anyway and who are they really
Ralph: Right. That's exactly the way I felt.
Kerry: So eventually you actually left the job, right?
Ralph: Yeah. To make a long story short, I went back, I worked
another two weeks and I couldn't stand it. "That's it. I'm
But during this period I started meeting people just
coincidentally. Most people I talked to outside of the lab
didn't want to talk science. They wanted to talk other things,
so I had very limited contacts with other people that were
interested in science.
Except I met this one person that said,
"Well, you know, what you're talking about is exactly what
they're talking about in these meetings that I go to. And the
name of the meetings are called 'Understanding'. And they were
developed by a person called Daniel Fry who was in the UFO
stuff. And they want to understand more. Why don't you come to
one of our meetings and talk?"
Well, I went to the meetings and kind of duplicated what I just
said about where I was working, you know, and they said,
oh, you've got to meet somebody. You've got to meet Mr. Carr."
Voss: What year was this now?
Ralph: I think it was late '59 or early '60.
And they said, "You guys are
talking the same thing. The same
And I said, "Well, OK."
And he said, "Well, coincidentally he just had some bad luck in
(That's where he was trying to demonstrate
the craft, you know, the flying disks. And they started
negatively defining his work. And the newspapers got a hold of
it... "He's trying to get funds to do something that's
impossible." And: "Science has just never heard of such a
thing." And so forth.)
"So we're going to bring him out here and
we're going to get a lab out here, with his entourage. And let's
go, let's try another place, another time and see if we can get
So they did. And I met with Carr and his entourage. He had
Dennis Ripolte, Norman Colton, Wayne Aho. I don't know. There
were about six of them.
Voss: He had a little consortium going.
Kerry: And where was this based now? Where was your group
Ralph: This was in Costa Mesa, California, where these
'Understanding' meetings were and that's where I met Carr. They
found out they were after Carr. He was having all kinds of
misses. They were trying to quiet his efforts.
Kerry: When you say he was having misses, actually people were
trying to kill him?
Ralph: Yeah. They were threatening and then, you know, he'd have
to be very careful where he went because he'd find people kind
of, you know, very curiously observing him, and you know, things
Voss: They already knew what you were up to and they probably
were following you as well as following him.
Ralph: That's a good point and I didn't bring this up but I
think it's important. You've heard by now... it's all over the
place... about three Men in Black?
Ralph: OK. This was back before I'd even heard of such a thing.
These three guys showed up at my door after this experiment and
after Weinhart had destroyed these things. Honest to god, they
were in black suits. [laughter]
And they said,
"We're from the DeWalt School of Electronics and
we've heard about you. Can we come in? We want to know about
your experiments and what you're doing and everything."
And I was a little hesitant but I
invited them in and I started
And my wife said, "No. No. These guys don't feel right."
Kerry: Ah ha.
Voss: She's very intuitive. She had a bad feeling about them.
Ralph: Yeah. She sure did.
And I said, "Well we can't kick
But they became a little more insistent. Like: "Well, give us
how you did this." And: "I want the details," and stuff. And
they're not giving me anything back. They're just kind of
And she caught this and she goes, "I'm going to have to ask you
guys to leave right now. You can come back later or whatever you
want to do, but you've got to leave right now."
And she kicked them out of the house.
Kerry: [laughs] OK. So you started in Costa Mesa. And didn't you
move out of there, or something?
Ralph: Yeah. The 'Understanding' group had a cabin. There were
lots of people in the 'Understanding' group. There was, I don't
know, a couple of dozen people that would meet... had a cabin up
at Lake Arrowhead, which is down by the riverside, up in the
mountains in California.
And they said,
"We've got to get Carr
and you guys in a safe place. And there's a nice big cabin, and
room enough for everybody. Go on up there and then we'll keep
working on what we're going to do."
So I got up there, talking with Carr and his protégés, his
people that he had with him, and man, I just lit up like a
Christmas tree. I mean, I was on Cloud Nine! Man... he was
answering questions that I had on things and I was answering
questions he had on things and it was just... Man!
Voss: Connected on all kinds of levels.
Ralph: God! It was the most wonderful time of my life. We were
feeding the raccoons to keep our minds... We were so anxious to
get going on the project. And we had a phone call and they said,
"We've got you a place. It's just down the hill from where
you're at, on the other side, in Apple Valley, or Hesperia,
California." Near Victorville. It's coincidentally, because all
these people moved on feelings and spirit, if you will.
Voss: This is the same era, I wanted to point out, that
Van Tassel was having a lot of UFO meetings out at the
Integratron near Joshua Tree.
Ralph: I'm glad you mentioned Van Tassel. I had forgot. I had
ordered from Europe Tesla's big book and it did get to me. And I
was going through all the patents and everything in the big
book. And when this thing happened with my wife kicking these
guys out and everything I got a little apprehensive. And I
decided... I knew of Van Tassel. And I knew a little bit about
his background. This was before I met Carr. So I took a trip. I
got in my car because I was going to try to meet people that...
Voss: Would be more accepting?
Ralph: Yeah. Who were more accepting. And I took this "Bible"
down to Giant Rock, Joshua Tree, California, and met with Van
Tassel and we had a nice talk. And I said, "You know, I'm
supposed to give you this," you know. "I'm out of this phase of
it. I don't know where I'm going or what I'm going to do. This is
And I gave it to him. And I remember it was getting late
that afternoon or evening and I went out and laid on a hillside
and I looked up in the sky. And I saw hundreds, if not
thousands, of whatever they were. UFOs. Spaceships.
Voss: Different, various shapes? Lights?
Ralph: Yeah. Green lights or whatever. I don't know. There was
hundreds and hundreds. They were coming over and they'd stop and
come down and go up and around. And, "Oh my god. This is
really... this is really..." And I said, "What is this for?" And
what I got was: "Because you did what you did." Wow.
Kerry: It was like a kind of thank you demonstration of a sort.
Ralph: And I just chilled all over.
Voss: "If you build it, we will come." [laughter]
Ralph: Oh, man! So than I got back and they had set up the
meeting with Carr and then we got down into the laboratory down
in Hesperia, down in Apple Valley. And we started setting up
shop. We had a little machine shop set up and we had, you know,
all kinds of stuff to do things with, but we had a couple of
models that they brought with them that were semi-operational.
So the first experiment that I saw that just knocked my socks
off was... We set it up on one of the work benches and attached
- not electricity, but sound waves, if you will. Or maybe it
was, I think... I'm not sure. Anyway, this was a small model,
about, was it two feet in diameter? Two or three feet in
And they said, "Well, take a look at this."
fired it up. Hardly any noise, just a hum, a vibratory hum. And
it was made out of aluminum. I touched the surface of it and it
felt good, but I could feel the vibration. And so they kept
increasing the energy and then there was this feeling... Jeez,
it felt like somebody opened a door and a cool breeze was coming
through. It felt really good. And at that time I went to touch
it again and it was like jello, it was getting soft, getting
really, really soft, like I could put my fingers through it.
Better than jello, because it didn't stick or anything. I put my
hand in and pulled it out.
Voss: Oh my goodness! And what did it feel like when your hand
was inside of the gelatinous material? Did you feel anything?
Ralph: Well, it was the same tingling that we were all feeling
in this room. We had accelerated our efforts. It was like what
it was doing, we were doing.
Kerry: Oh, I see. So you were speeding up, kind of like in
sympathy to the vibrations.
Ralph: Exactly. Exactly.
Kerry: That resonance that you talk about.
Ralph: Um hum. And after the experiment, Carr... The way he
briefed us on things was just, we'd sit down and have a cup of
coffee, you know? It was just... He'd come out with this
wonderful stuff about the laws of nature and how that is our
whole essence and if we ignore it, we're in trouble. He's got to
understand these laws and how they work for anything.
want a comfortable life, a good life, a happy life, and
especially if you want to get anywhere in technology, you can't
use brute force. And I told him about Advanced Kinetics and
everything and he kind of laughed. He told me a lot. He worked
Tesla. He had known him for a while and worked with him.
And I guess by now you already know about the story of Tesla
going to J. P. Morgan.
Voss: When he showed the wireless tower, how to transmit power
wirelessly, he says, "It's a real good idea, but how are we
going to stick a meter on it?" [laughter]
The essence of "We are in
control." It's really astounding. And he definitely sent the
Ralph: He said, "If we go your way, Tesla, we'll have no more copper
mills, no more lumber, trees for telephone poles, and wire."
And he said, "Well, that's the idea. You can stick a pole in the
ground 30 feet and 30 feet [up into the air]. I'll show you. We
can get electricity anywhere. It's all around us. We're living
And Morgan said, "No way, Tesla. There's no money in that."
Voss: J.P. Morgan, from what I understand, was also one of the
first, one of the pioneers in the military-industrial complex.
He was THE man. And soon afterward, he pretty much picked up the
Bat Phone to Washington and said, "Hey, we've got this loose
cannon on our hands," and the implications of the conversations
pretty much took care of burying Tesla from thenceforth.
guess, from what I understand from reading some of the journals,
they gathered up all his equipment and shipped it off to
Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, and I guess they put him up in
a hotel, the Waldorf Astoria, and gave him a government stipend.
And the agents were always on the crawl, prowling everywhere,
interrupting his conversations and pretty much filtering out any
connections with the outside world to him.
Kerry: Did Carr mention what happened to Tesla? Did he talk to
you guys about that?
Ralph: Tesla became
discouraged because of the lack of interest in, you know... I
mean, he'd take them a new idea, bring out a new idea, and show
them the simplicity, that there's nothing to
it. And they'd say, "Well, there's no money in it. Forget it." I
mean, everything he'd bring up, you know...
Kerry: So it was Carr's point of view that Tesla was
discouraged. But did Carr sort of relate his being hounded, you
know, by the military, or being shadowed and so on? I mean, what
happened to Carr as being the same thing that happened to Tesla?
In other words, did he talk about that at all? Carr? Before he
Ralph: Well, I guess. I don't know. Carr didn't talk too much
about the threats or anything that Tesla had, you know. But I
was under the impression talking to Carr that there were many,
many things happening that were trying to keep Tesla under
wraps, trying to keep him quiet.
And Tesla had told him at one
time, he says,
"You know, I may never make it in this generation
to get these ideas out. This is all just free energy. Free."
You've got four elements: sun,
water, the earth, and the air. They're all free. They have been
forever and they always will be. And we're not using them. We're
inventing ways to put meters on them and sell them. Even selling air at one time, and now
they're selling water.
Voss: Who would have thought, hmm?
Kerry: [laughs] Yeah.
Ralph: So Tesla
"All this that I'm sharing with
(And he thought Carr was brilliant. He thought, you
know, he was grasping everything that Tesla was telling him,
because Carr had been into nature for years himself.)
"If I don't make it," or "When I don't make it, because I
probably won't make it, you take it and pass it on. And if you
don't make it, pass it on."
But it's going to get worse because they've already challenged
nature. Man, way back there, had challenged nature. And what
goes around comes around. Natural law. It will come back on us.
Kerry: Basically Carr did exactly what Tesla asked him to do. He
took it forward.
Kerry: In a sense you are taking forward what Carr...
Ralph: Oh, you bet.
Kerry: You seem to be the person that is like a descendent of
Carr. In that line. Am I right?
Ralph: Yeah. I would say so.
Kerry: It's so amazing to me that you're so unknown.
Ralph: Well, there are many reasons for that.
Kerry: Because we would like to actually know why you're so
unknown. You know what I mean?
Ralph: OK. I will tell you. They were all hit-and-miss. But Carr
was always on and I'd stay up all night. We'd be looking at the
stars and talk all night and never need any sleep. I mean, I'd
go to work the next day and just feel pumped up all the time
talking to this guy. He was just... wow.
And I said, "You know,
don't worry. We're going to get this thing going here."
And they said, "They're closing in. They know he's in California
now." And some of our experiments on some of the craft... We
operated different principles. And some of them would create a
corona on the outside of the... We'd operate these little...
Voss: The dielectric principles. The ionization process.
Ralph: Right. And so even though it was daylight sometimes
[makes sound of object moving fast] you'd see these things. And
the people in the valley were... That was the era of flying
saucers and stuff and so they thought, "Oh my god, this place's
got flying saucers around here," and stuff; well, that and the
fact that the "powers" that were trying to reduce Carr's
activities were following him, trying to find him. So he said,
"We're just going to have to keep working on this."
Carr had made arrangements and I went with him to meet with a
representative of General Motors car company. I think that was
at Riverside. The guy committed to meet with Carr because Carr
told him a few things that interested him. So I went with him.
And Ripolte was there. And I think Aho was there.
And in a very precise way Carr said, "You know, we can levitate
these machines now. We can get off the Earth. We're killing a
lot of animals. We're destroying the plant life."
"Within a year we'll have these things going. We can start with
the automobile. That's obsolete. We can get these things going.
And then the homes." (Which is my interest. I've always wanted,
you know, why not? Like the Jetsons, for instance, you know,
floating homes. And then maybe cities, and then maybe countries.
Who knows the end of it?)
But this guy got real, real
aggressive and said, "You put them up there, Carr, and we'll
shoot them down."
That was his words. "You put them
up and we'll shoot them down."
Ralph: And I was flabbergasted. Like... why? And he says,
"You're advocating an energy field that there's no money
involved. We can't..."
Voss: We have no means of controlling it, was his premise.
Ralph: Right. "You're pulling energy out of the air which is all
around us and using that to transport, or teleport, or
Kerry: So you guys just basically walked out of there and said,
"OK." What did Carr say? Did he say, "OK. I won't do it any
more?" What did Carr say? I'm curious, after that. Sort of a
Ralph: No. Oh, I don't remember his exact words, but he was
very, very good, the way he said it to this guy.
Kerry: Oh really?
Ralph: Yeah. He said, "It's only a matter of time until it comes
Voss: "You can't stop us. You can't stop IT."
Ralph: Yeah. "It's here. Whether it's here today or tomorrow,
it's here. It's rapidly approaching the point where is HAS to
be. Not "want to be," but HAS to be."
And he said, "I'm sorry
you don't see our point because we were willing to work with
you. You could find us and we could show you what we can do."
And the guy wasn't interested. So we just left. And that was,
you know, another acquaintance that I had with the system that
we live in that, you know, I could never accept.
We went back to Apple Valley and said, "Let's get the 45-foot
craft going. Let's have people onboard. And we'll document it
and have the proof and then we'll have the 'Understanding' group
finding ways to let people know what we were going to do. We
were going to have live demonstrations eventually."
To make a long story short, we went through stages and we
finally got to the big craft. [film shows technical drawings of
various craft] There was actually two of them but there was the
one craft that we were ready to try an experiment with.
Kerry: And how big was that, again?
Ralph: 45 feet in diameter. And we were by that time... You
know, we didn't have any fences or anything around us and you
could see the thing from the road, and stuff, and we knew it was
only a matter of time before the looky-loos started getting
there. But we didn't care. We knew we had to do something
because now General Motors was going to go tell whoever what we
were proposing it wouldn't be long before they found out what we
Well, he said, "Come on. We're going to go."
He got us in the
briefing room and he told three of us... I don't remember who
the other two guys were now. It wasn't Ripolte. It wasn't
Colton. It wasn't Aho. But there were three of us. And he said,
"What you're going to do, you're going to get onboard. We're
going to go
downrange." (We had a 65-mile range in Apple Valley. Where we
eventually wound up was about 10 miles, I think, down range.)
said, "You're going to get on board and we're going to go some place
and then we're going to come back, and that's all." And he said,
"But I want to tell you ahead of time your brain will no
Voss: Be the same?
Ralph: [laughs] "Well, you will lose it because it won't
understand and it won't comprehend what's happening. So use your
mind, use your feelings, come from your heart. Meditate. Go into
a focus point and go to your higher thoughts and feelings, you
know, rather than worrying about what was going to happen."
said "It's going to be a strange experience for you, but it will
happen and we'll document it."
And so we got onboard and what it was there onboard was just
like a small crystal ball in the center. (It wasn't actually in
the center. It was off center a little bit.) And it had a... I
think it was a laser; I don't know. But there was a white light
coming up from the bottom of it, shining up through it. And it
just beautifully broke the color spectrum from infrared,
red-red, orange-orange, yellow-yellow, all the way around 360
degrees. Anywhere you wanted to go, any degree you wanted to go
in, the color spectrum was there.
I thought, "Boy. That's
beautiful!" And we'd been briefed on it but until I saw it I
didn't realize what was going on.
And he said, "OK. Just relax. We're
going to go to an area that
symbolizes..." (He used to use symbols a lot. I mean, he'd say,
you know, "Talking is useless. You have to use
higher-than-talking symbols to reach the mind.")
Voss: Thinking in pictures.
Ralph: In pictures. Right. In fact, off the subject for a
minute, when I used to read a lot one of my greatest people was
Kahlil Gibran. He wrote the book, The Prophet, and in there one
of his sayings was,
"Half of what I say to you is meaningless,
but it's necessary so that the other half may reach you."
And I thought,
"Oh, now I get it. You have to come from the soul
or the heart or it's no good. It's just going around in
Kerry: Was there something about choosing the blue spectrum in
Ralph: Aquamarine. We were in touch. I don't know if we had
walkie-talkies, but I remember that we were in touch, and he
said, "OK. We're going to aquamarine. That's over there.
[gestures right] Hang on, boys, let's go."
So we set there. I'm
just doing this from memory...
Voss: So you're all collectively focusing the same collective
thought, to feed this energy into a center focal point which is
Ralph: Right. And this ball, then, started just closing down
[with hands demonstrates a sphere getting smaller] and focusing
on aquamarine. The whole thing became aquamarine. "My god, how
did he do that?" He told us later that we were a part of doing
it because we were focused on it. I thought, "Oh, oh, oh, this
Voss: Like a biofeedback mechanism is synergistic.
Ralph: Yeah! So we got focused on it and then I was waiting for
the thing to move now. And nothing seemed to happen.
And then Carr said, "OK, boys, get out of the craft and see
what's going on."
"Didn't it work, or what happened?"
He said, "Come on. Get out of the craft."
We got out and we were down range 10 miles where this aquamarine
Voss: I'm guessing that this whole process, you're talking about
probably a few minutes.
Ralph: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'll get to the timing in a minute.
So he said, "All right. Pick up
rocks. Put them in your pocket.
Take some grass or whatever you can find. Some tumbleweed.
Whatever you can find and get acquainted with where you're at.
Because when you get back you're not going to remember any of
That was the gist of the whole thing. So we did, and we got back
on board and then [makes sound of fast movement] we were back.
And we got out of the craft, went in to debriefing, and said,
"Well, what happened? It didn't work, did it?"
"You don't think it worked? Check your pockets."
And so we checked our pockets. And here's these dang rocks. I
had grass stains, I had everything. I said, "Oh my god."
Voss: But you didn't have memory of this?
Ralph: No memory. No memory at all. I remembered later, being
there and picking up the rocks. It was just like...
Voss: Like it was a dream or something.
Ralph: Like it was a dream. Exactly. You advance your
imagination to a point and then you'd forget about it.
And so I thought, "This is the most incredible experience I've
And he said,
"No, no, it's simple. Your brain is there to
operate your body. You're in a vessel here. It's an illusionary
vessel that people don't realize because we're creating it in
microseconds. From one second to the other these shutters are
opening and shutting, creating all this reality you see around
you, but it doesn't really exist. It's all spirit. It's all
energy, but we're creating it."
And he was blowing us away.
But he said,
"Your brain has a capacity limit. It goes to a
certain point of its responsibility and unless it's in touch
with the Mind, unless it consents to be in touch with the
Kerry: The Greater Mind.
Ralph: Yeah, that's the Mind of all of us, because we're all
One. "Unless it gets in touch with that, it doesn't know what's
Voss: Am I to presume that at that moment that you had that
flight of 10 miles distance, your brain was being stretched like
a rubber band, but when you went back, you went back faster than
the memories of the experience could come back and your brain
could realize it?
Ralph: Yeah, something like that. Yeah.
Kerry: I don't know. Days later, months later, you could
remember, like you said, picking up the rocks, then?
Ralph: Yeah, but I don't remember any movement whatsoever.
Kerry: You don't remember the craft moving? Or you don't...
Ralph: I'm sitting there and the ball turned to aquamarine and
he said, "Get out of the craft." We got out. There was motion,
but I don't remember too much of that. I remember being outside.
And then I guess we got back in and back to the base. But to us
it was at least 15 minutes.
Voss: Normal time.
Ralph: Normal time. Yeah. I figured we'd been gone about 15
Voss: So there is a time variation going on here.
Ralph: And Carr explained it.
He said, "Well, like, it's simple.
People don't realize that Man in a sense created time. Time
doesn't exist, in essence. It does when we create it and we have
a beginning and an end to something. We call that time. But in a
greater reality there is no time."
Kerry: That's like the eternal Now.
Ralph: Yeah. We pegged it at 15 minutes and he says just a few
seconds. We just went outside and back in time. I mean, it's
what you call it. What you create is what it is.
And since then I've had experiences that have told me just don't
talk about it to anybody because, you know, most people are not
interested because they're tied up with the creature comforts
and so forth. And a lot of people, when I start getting close to
it, they get a little fearful because they don't understand.
they, of course, think I'm...
Kerry: What happened after? I mean, you made that test flight,
Kerry: And so you didn't make that many test flights after that.
Is that right? You guys got closed down somehow?
Ralph: I did the one test flight and then we did some things
that were there at the plant. But we didn't go down range or
anything because it was just about within two weeks after that
that the FBI and whoever these other guys, CIA or whatever, they
came in to the plant.
They came over with all their bells and
whistles and said, you know, "You're shutting down right now."
And we asked them why and they said "Because of your threat to
overthrow the monetary system of the United States of America."
That was their ploy.
Voss: Issues of national security and what have you.
Ralph: Yes. "And we're confiscating everything." And they went
into the offices and they went into the lab and they started
just confiscating everything. And then they debriefed us and
told us, in essence, "You guys are wrong. You're attempting to
overthrow the monetary system."
Voss: And this is what we're going to do to you if you don't
cooperate. Sign here.
Kerry: Well, did they have you sign something?
Ralph: No. I don't remember signing anything.
Kerry: And what about Carr?
Ralph: Yeah, they might have had him... he got really, really...
His health started going fast after that happened, and I don't
Kerry: You were working on this night and day, pretty much, at
that point? So you guys disbanded based on these people coming
Ralph: And they said, "You are no longer allowed..."
Voss: In no uncertain terms you will cease and desist.
Ralph: In no uncertain terms. "We are watching you."
Kerry: So what did you do then? I mean, what did you do? Did you
just go home? Did you try to work in secret at all at that
point? Or anything like that?
Ralph: I tried to do it on my own, which I found out you can't
do it. You've got to have other people.
Kerry: So, you and Carr, did you stay in touch after that?
Ralph: Well, they told us not to. Through understanding I was in
touch with Carr. We'll get together again. But he was really...
He said, "Nah. I don't think we're going to make it this time."