Free Energy Systems: First, I
want to thank you for spending this time with us today. It is an
honor to have this time with you. Thank you.
Andrea Rossi: No, thank you.
It is an honor for me to
speak with you and with your readers. We are all just working
for the best of possibilities for new energy, so I am glad to be
here with you this morning.
FES: We have seen your interviews on your site, heard you
on the radio and read other interviews that you have given.
those interviews, you say that you consider the E-Cat to be a LENR unit and not Cold Fusion. You said that fusion might occur,
however, you do not view the E-Cat as a Cold Fusion device.
first question is what is the difference between Cold Fusion and LENR?
AR: Simply put, Cold Fusion means fusion of nuclea at a low
temperature, while low energy nuclear reactions is a more widely
understood definition. LENR includes nuclear effects, not
necessarily fusions. For example gamma rays emission without any
FES: How did you become aware that LENR existed and that it was
AR: Well, of course you know that in 1989, Fleischmann and Pons
made their famous press conference and that day I received their
information and I tried to repeat their experiment but I had not
been able to repeat their results.
However, from that point on,
I took it up to release LENR and tried to make my own research
regarding cold fusion. This is how I began my experimentation.
Their idea that it should be possible to get LENR was practical
and logical to me.
That is why I decided to invest my time in
FES: So the work actually started in 1989 and the culmination of
the work is coming to fruition as we speak?
AR: Correct, yes it is correct. I started to make it
professionally, investing money in 1990.
FES: Understanding that certain details are confidential, will
you please explain in laymenís terms exactly what the E-Cat does
and why it is so significant?
AR: By means of LENRs, nickel and hydrogen with some additives
we can create a reaction producing heat with a very high
FES: We have read that the E-Cat reached 600 Celsius degrees (C)
for over 45 days and that the E-Cat has reached self
sustainability. Will you please explain what this means?
AR: The E-Cat of the last generation can reach 600 C, which will
allow a more wide utilization, for example, to produce electric
energy or heat. The self sustaining mode of the E-Cat is when it
works without consuming energy.
FES: What will the E-Cat be made out of? What is the chamber/reactor made out of that it can withstand 600 C for any
sustained period of time?
AR: Mainly stainless steel. It is made by a particular stainless
steel alloy which is able to sustain the temperature. Basically,
I can say that it is AISI 310 alloy.
FES: We have read that the E-Cat will start going on sale by
yearís end to commercial clients and that it will go on sale to
private customers in 2013. Is the E-Cat still on schedule to be
sold at these times and do you have further release date
AR: The industrial version of the E-Cat is already for sale,
while the domestic (or home) version is set for 2013. However,
although the certification of the residential version is still
on course we cannot foresee the scheduling because it does not
depend on us.
FES: Who or what agency is currently reviewing the E-Cat for
approval for home use in the United States and in other
countries around the world?
AR: We have to get the certification from an official certifier
for sale in the U.S.
We are under a Non Disclosure Agreement
(NDA) with the certifier and all I can say is the U.S. certifier
works for one of the most well-known worldwide certification
companies and I can not say whom they are because we will be
only be able to explain their name after the certification has
been reached. This is based off of the contract that we have
Now we have to put a distinction between the certification of
the industrial plants, which are the plants of 1 megawatt per
hour of energy and the domestic apparatuses.
The distinction is
due to the fact that when you install the device in an
industrial plant, you give it to certified operators, who have
to take a course, and be examined by us and certified by us.
know that industry is structured to penalize on safety issues in
order to guarantee a proper operation. This is why that
industrial certification will be granted to us very soon as we
have been informed.
The situation is completely different for the domestic market,
because when you sell a domestic apparatus, it goes directly
from the manufacturer to the shop, and from the shop, to an
apartment where there are not professional operators.
most of the public will not even read the instructions, with the
instructions book which will accompany every E-Cat. For this
reason, the certification of the domestic apparatuses will take
more time. And I confirm that how much time will be necessary is
out of our control.
But, I think, and I have record statistics
from the certifiers that after the industrial plants will be in
operation and we'll have accumulated hours of operation, it will
be easier to predict all the statistics that will allow
certification for the domestic apparatuses.
So, this is exactly
FES: Now, with regards to the certification process, you say
that it's an independent organization that is certifying it.
Does the E-Cat also have to get some type of certification from
the U.S. government?
AR: No, as far as we know, there are no government
certifications that are requested for this apparatus.
had a contact with government persons, but, due to the
characteristics of our apparatuses, which does not use
radioactive material, does not produce radioactive waste, and
does not emit radiations outside of the apparatuses doing the
operation there are no reasons to request any government
This is what has emerged so far. So, the
certification made by a third party, specialized certification
company is enough by law as of today. Of course, we do not know
the future because I cannot predict this at all.
I can only
answer based on what is the situation today.
FES: Now, we have also read that people have had difficulty in
the past, going many years back, getting these LENR and Cold
Fusion devices patented. Has the E-Cat been patented yet, or
where are you in the process of getting it patented?
AR: Yes, we have many patents pending, in the U.S. and in the
We already have been granted the basic
patent in Italy, and this is important because this forbids any
attempt to make or to patent the same thing in any part of the
world. But, the patents outside Italy are still pending and our
attorneys are working on them. And, there is nothing more I can
You know, the procedure of patenting is based on the fact
that between our attorneys and the patent officers, there is a
patent of course on papers based on the requests of more
information, and so on.
The patent job is going on.
Free Energy Sysyems: For peopleís
homes, what will the first released version of the E-Cat be able
Andrea Rossi: Provide heat.
FES: Could one unit heat a whole home?
AR: Yes. Of course it depends on the surface and the volume of
the house. You know, every E-Cat gives a certain amount of
But, total amount needed by a house depends on the
volume of the rooms you have to heat up. So, there is a
calculation that our connectors will make, and so maybe you will
need one or more E-Cats to cover your heating demand.
FES: And so, would someone keep their E-Cat where there water
heater would be currently, in the basement, or something along
AR: The location of our apparatus would be exactly where the
apparatus already exists because we will just attach our
apparatus to the existing boiler or heater and nothing has to be
changed or displaced.
We have just to connect and bypass the
output of the water from the existing boiler or heater to the
inlet of the E-Cat. And, the outlet of the E-Cat goes to a
circuit. So, it is a very simple connection.
FES: Now, moving forward to people being able to purchase the
E-Cat for their homes, do you envision this being sold at a
retail location such as E-Cat stores, or is it your goal to
bring it to existing retail outlets?
AR: Yes. Our goal is to bring it to Home Depot in the United
States. We already have contacts, and they are waiting for the
certification to be done. But, we will sell it through the Home
FES: How much do you anticipate that the first home E-Cat will
AR: Around $1,000 USD.
FES: How big are the home E-Cat units going to be?
AR: First of all, I must start to answer to this question saying
that we will know exactly the shape and the characteristics of
the domestic apparatuses only after the certifier has finished
his work, because we are waiting for all the requirements that
the apparatus will have to respect be certified.
So we are
waiting, on these requirements, you see.
But, as the situation is right now, the domestic apparatus which
we have already manufactured in some prototypes, which we are
testing in our factory is about 12 inches by 12 inches by 6
inches of dimension (30 centimeters by 30 centimeters by 15
It is kind of a box and it is applied to
any kind of existing heating apparatus in bypasses so that it
can get its energy to the circuits, so that the sensors of
temperature of the existing heating system, becomes a sort of a
pick-up will sense the temperature and regulate, if you will,
flow depending on the temperature that the apparatus will be
able to produce.
So that automatically, during the operation of
the E-Cat, the consumption of a fuel, of a traditional fuel,
will be automatically reduced.
FES: When a consumer goes to their local store, buys the E-Cat,
brings it home, do they have to get someone to install it for
them, or is this something where they'll be able to plug it in
or install it themselves?
AR: They will need a professional operator that will install it
properly, and respecting the requirements, and at that point,
also, the operator will give the main instructions so it will
force in a certain way, the customer to read the main topics of
the instruction book.
FES: And will it be the type of situation that once the consumer
brings it home, the operator comes and installs it and gives the
instructions? Will the consumer then be able to just leave it
AR: Exactly. The consumer has to do absolutely nothing.
because every six months, the operator will go to change the
charger, which is a very simple operation, like to change the
refill in a pen.
The consumer has just to do nothing, and call
the operator if he needs to. But mainly, the main instruction is
just to call the operator. The instructions will be how to turn
it off, and how to turn it on and that's all that the customer
will have to do.
And by the way, the E-Cat will be sealed, and we will always
control that seal so that it has not been broken, because in
case we find the seals broken, which should mean that the
customer has tried to open the reactor, I think that he has
absolutely not to do.
In that case, of course, all the
guarantees will be canceled.
FES: Is that to keep the proprietary technology confidential, or
is that to protect the consumer?
AR: Basically to protect the consumer, because as it is well
known in the science of reactors, that there are powders of
nickel, and powders of nickel are toxic. You know, it is kind of
like, in the batteries.
You know, in the normal use of batteries
that you put inside your cell phone, or in a torch light, those
very common batteries like Duracell, et cetera, if you open
them, they are full of toxic materials. So, they are made in a
way that you cannot open them accidentally but you have to want
to break them and open them.
In that case, you come in contact
with a toxic material.
This is the same with our reactors. They are sealed and closed
and very robust so you have to want to break the seals and open
them. And at that point, your fingers can be in contact with the
toxic material like nickel powders, et cetera, and we have to
And, this is the main issue, because you know the
people that want to make reverse engineering will be
professionals, and the professional will not bother very much to
lose the guarantee and they will open it professionally, and in
a safe mode.
So, our protection is just to guarantee the
FES: When someone brings the unit home, how much will the first
E-Cat cost to operate and what can people anticipate in terms of
its full functionality?
AR: The operation cost is irrelevant.
FES: Will an operator have to come though, once a year, to
refuel the E-Cat?
AR: Yes, it is correct
FES: Okay, so they'll have to continue, every year on year to
refuel it, and then it'll just continue to run throughout the
AR: Yes, because the refueling is also an occasion to check that
everything is alright.
It is not just to refill, it is also to
take a look. Like, you know in a normal gas heater, you have
every year to get an inspection from a professional that has to
come to check that all the connections are correct, et cetera.
So, our inspection, the inspection of our operators, every six
months will have also the goal to control that everything is
alright and to prevent misconnections.
FES: Do you envision a day, in the not to distant future, where
fossil fuels are totally replaced by the E-Cat?
AR: No. I think that the different energy sources will be
FES: Moving forward do you envision a day where you will be not
only able to heat your home with an E-Cat, but in addition to
that, get electricity from the E-Cat as well?
AR: You know the electricity issue is bound to the temperature
that we are able to bring to the wall of the reactor, to have
So, it will be very difficult to make this in
the domestic apparatuses because it is very complex and when the
reactor reaches certain temperatures. I also think that the
certification will be very difficult, honestly.
And, while we
already are ready to make electricity in the industrial plant,
because in these days, we are making very thorough tests, with
very high temperature reactors which will be able to produce
steam at very high temperatures obtaining very good performances
in terms of efficiency.
Therefore, it will be absolutely
possible in a short term, but we make electricity by means of
industrial plants, while to make electricity with a domestic
client is a long shot, because there is a long road map.
First of all we need the certification done for the heating
systems. Then, we will design how to make electricity, which
will be also complicated technologically. Because you know, to
make electricity, you need a turbine to have a good efficiency.
You have to go to very high temperatures, at least.
You need a
condenser. And you know, to put all this in a house, I think
that is very, very, very difficult at the moment, honestly.
FES: Could you envision a day where we had Cold Fusion or LENR
AR: You know, about the future, I can say that this technology
will have many applications. I am not thinking to in this
moment. It is very difficult to know what will happen in the
future. I made this example in another situation. I want to
repeat this example.
The inventors of the laser, when they
invented it, they absolutely could not imagine that the lasers
would have been the main telecommunication systems through the
You know, the inventors of the laser couldn't even
think about that. So, you know, an analogy, in this moment, I
cannot imagine how many applications will be there.
applications to the automotive, in a way, I would think that
there will be difficult states to be overcome with the
certification process. Because the application to engines for
cars, et cetera, all this technology will not have easy issues
for what goes to the certifications.
FES: From your colleagues or the media, possibly anyone for that
matter, have you experienced negative feedback or has everybody
really embraced this revolutionary and evolutionary change?
AR: You know, it is normal, also in physics, that a system
always resists to any external force that is applied. This is a
physical principle and it, as well, an industrial and political
So, we are not an exception in this. But, in any
case, I cannot complain because it is normal and we have
received many sustained encouragements that have balanced the
For example, what you are doing right now with me is
trying to help our development. And, many journalists are
involved. And, many persons, many politicians have, are trying
to help out and of course there are also resistances, which are
But, at the end, I think that what counts is that we make proper
plans, working properly, and as a logical consequence, this
technology will be difficult, but have the very simple reasons
that customers vote with dollars. If a thing works, it goes
through, and if it does not work, it does not go through.
Resistances are always overcome if you apply enough force to
FES: That concludes our interview. Thank you so very much for
AR: Thank you.
FES: We wish you tremendous success, because your success is all
of our success. We all wish you the very best.
AR: Thank you.