Karma One: Beside the fact
that the Matrix (and the human Mind) is his own source ("self
ware" matrix as you said), what is the real source of the
Matrix. Who or what create it and in which true purpose beside
the fact to entrap us? Somebody or something must have the idea
to create it? Who or what is this creator?
David Icke: I would say it is our own collective subconscious
that has taken on a life and mind of its own. An ancient Hindu
myth says that human consciousness had begun as a ripple that
decided to leave the ocean of consciousness – the ‘timeless,
spaceless and eternal'. When it awakened to itself in this
‘disconnected' state, the myth said, it forgot that it was part
of the infinite ocean and felt isolated and separated.
pretty much what I am saying in my own way. In this disconnected
state - like little lost children - we have collectively created
the Matrix and become controlled and deluded by our own
creation. I explain all this in detail in my new book,
Love Is The Only Truth - Everything Else Is Illusion.
Karma One: You say that the Matrix is a kind of self sentient,
conscious being, a kind of entity that is the source of our
consensual reality. What is the true nature of this entity?
David Icke: It is consciousness that has lost its way also. You
could think of it as like a 'Frankenstein' consciousness that
has taken over its creator. We are its prisoners while we remain
in ignorance of our plight and believe that this 'world' is
'real'. It is not. It is a projected holographic illusion very
much along the lines portrayed in the first Matrix movie.
Karma One: Do we really belong to the matrix or to something
else? What are our true origins?
David Icke: Everything is infinite consciousness. At that level
of awareness there is no 'we', only one infinite 'I'. But in
this reality we have been caught in the illusion of separation.
We think in terms of parts, not the whole. This duality and
polarity is the ultimate version of divide and rule. The Matrix
(this illusory ‘world') is what I call the holographic Internet.
Our brains/DNA are like a computer terminal linked to the World
Wide Web. When you log on a computer in China, America or France
you are connecting with the same Internet - the same collective
reality. What you make of it gives you your sense of
individuality, but the basic collective reality is the same. For
instance, we all see the same car or house, but differ on what
we think of them.
Our DNA/brain is like a computer, decoding
frequency fields - thought fields - into what we perceive as a
The 'world' we think is around us only
exists in our brain/DNA - our biological computer. The Matrix
works on the same principle as television which broadcasts programs in wave form that the TV decodes into pictures. The
only difference is that our DNA/brain decode wave forms into
holographic - apparently 3D - pictures.
Karma One: The matrix create
to fulfill the role of the agent Smith toward human being? Why
the Matrix create those agent in such a form? Why the form of
David Icke: They have been created as part of the illusion and
to keep us in the illusion - very much along the lines of Agent
Smith in the first Matrix movie. Reptilian genetics - a computer
program in truth - appear to be very prevalent within the Matrix
for reasons I explain in detail in the new book.
Karma One: If we follow you, because of the genetic blending
and manipulation of humanity, we are in fact also reptilian in
David Icke: Oh yes ... the oldest part of the
human brain is
known by scientists as the 'R' complex or reptilian brain. It is
where we get the character traits of cold-bloodedness, lack of
empathy, ritualistic behavior and all the other traits that you
find in abundance in the Illuminati. It is these characteristics
that allow them to cause such death and destruction without a
thought for the victims.
Karma One: Did the reptilian knows that they are "agents", some
kind of artificial creation without real soul?
David Icke: The Matrix is a multi-dimensional illusion – the
ultimate smoke and mirrors game. What we have on earth with
Illuminati manipulating behind the scenes with even world
leaders not knowing the true story is an expression of the way
the Matrix as a whole operates. Very few know who the real
master is or what they are really serving.
I am convinced that
the reptilians are a biological computer program very much along
the lines of the ‘Woman in the Red Dress' in the Matrix movie.
They are not conscious in the way we understand that term. They
are following their program. So soulless? Yes, in the way most
people perceive ‘soul'.
Karma One: You seems to say that Godhead, Jesus and all this
kind of entity are still creation of the matrix. So, they are
also some kind of "agent Smith"?
David Icke: They don't have to be a perceivable Agent Smith
because these concepts are beliefs. The belief does not have to
exist to control the perception and behavior of the believer.
It is the belief itself that is the source of control.
Karma One: Do you know that
Carlos Castaneda present our
Godhead (Jesus, the Paradise , etc…) the same way?
David Icke: No I didn't.
Karma One: The concept of Paradise is always the Matrix. The
Christian or Islamic paradise is still in the Matrix?
David Icke: Yes. I have a chapter in my new book called
Program that makes this point very strongly.
Karma One: The New Age movement is also a conception of the
Matrix? Do you believe as Clive Prince (Stargate
that there is an hidden agenda to create a one world religion
mixing old Egyptian knowledge, Mystery Religion and obedience to
David Icke: Yes I do think these is validity in this. I think
we have to be very careful about anyone or anything that
presents a case for (a) giving your power away to anyone and (b)
equates ‘One World' with centralization of power. We can come
together as one humanity without having a few dictators running
everything from a central point.
All dictators operate through centralization of decision-making
and the destruction of diversity.
In the case of the New Age, the answer is a another yes. Once
again I have a chapter about this in the new book – Old Age, New
Age – Same Story.
Karma One: All the extraterrestrial beings are trapped like we
are in the same Matrix? The challenge is the same for us than
for them: to get out of this matrix?
David Icke: Those beings that take apparently ‘physical' form,
yes. We and they are already out of the Matrix at the level of
our infinite consciousness. It is our mental and emotional level
that has become caught in the illusion that is the Matrix. It is
not that we need to ‘get out' of anywhere, more to realize that
it is a multi-dimensional computer game that only exists in our
lower mind and emotion.
Karma One: Is it possible to transmute the Matrix in a better
thing? Or do you think that the Matrix will defend herself
because the way "she" worked need to be predatory?
David Icke: When we change our collective perception the Matrix
will change because it is the projection of our own
subconscious. We are our own controllers! We change – it
Karma One: Can we find some messages or messengers who warned
us about the Matrix? Did you find an entity (like some kind of
Jesus Christ or something like that) who try to warn us about
the true nature of the Matrix and the religion?
David Icke: The truth of what is happening is being broadcast
all the time… just as you have the broadcasts from radio and
television stations in the ‘space' you are occupying now. The
trick is to ‘tune' into that knowledge. Most people are not
operating on those higher frequencies, however, because of the
way society is structured and information is suppressed. As we
open to higher levels of awareness we develop a ‘knowing' about
the Matrix by accessing that information from the realms beyond
Karma One: The Matrix seem to be a creation. So, does it start
somewhere or is it an infinite creation without cause, without
David Icke: The concept of starting and ending is
actually a Matrix illusion. There is no time, only our
perception of it. It's more like a circle of experience in which
we go round and round symbolically while thinking we are going
forward. The past, present and future are happening at the same
‘moment'. They are different ‘points' in the circle, the cosmic
merry-go-round that I call the time loop, hence my book,
Tales From Time Loop.
Karma One: Is it possible that other kind of Matrix systems
exist based on fear or on something else?
David Icke: Absolutely, I think there are enormous numbers of
them. They are probably what science calls ‘parallel universes',
although these may be different levels of the one Matrix.
Karma One: Why a kind of "God" or what we can call the Main
Source, The ONE or whatever don't fix the Matrix, don't stop
this process that seems useless and endless?
David Icke: I think we are in process that will lead to this,
but there is a vast amount of knowledge and understanding that I
have not yet accessed and I have as many questions as anyone.
Karma One: You says that we don't need as conscience to
"learn", to live different lives because the One don't need it.
So why are we still pushed, caught or attracted in the Matrix?
David Icke: Why is the moth attracted to the light? Why is the
mouse mesmerized by the eyes of the snake? Humanity is
collectively hypnotized by the illusion, but more and more are
starting to wake up.
Karma One: What is the difference between the concept of Good,
Goodness in the Matrix and Good and Goodness outside the matrix,
in the Infinite, the One Universe?
David Icke: The Matrix is founded on duality and polarity –
opposites, or apparent opposites. So we perceive goodness and
badness, light and dark, positive and negative. In the realms of
Oneness in awareness of itself everything is one. So there is no
good or bad. Everything just is. There is no light or dark, only
the unity of all. I call it ‘isness' and it has to be
experienced to be fully understood.
Karma One: Why human being need to pass through the Matrix and
a alienate experience to experiment life in 3D? To learn
David Icke: They don't need to pass through, they become caught
in the spider's web of the five senses and other related
dimensions and forget who or what they really are. They believe
the illusion is real and once that happens they are trapped. And
you don't seek to escape to something you don't even know
exists. Imagine sitting in a prison cell believing that it was
everything. Why would you seek to leave when you thought there
was nowhere else to go
Karma One: If the Matrix is a trap, an illusion and that our
real belonging is in the Infinite, there is no moral
consideration to prevent myself to leave this world if I
consider it frankly as a lost of time (even if I'm not my better
judge). So, in this system, who or what can prevent people to
David Icke: We can't kill ourselves, except as an illusion,
because there is no death, only a different state of being.
'Physical death' is part of the programming, but because we
believe it in it we experience what we believe to be real.
In terms of taking your own life, it depends on the mental and
emotional state of the person who leaves this world by what we
call death. The Robin Williams movie, What Dreams May Come,
captured this well when his wife killed herself because she was
so devastated by the death of her husband and children.
She went to a realm (another state of illusion) that matched her
and emotional state. It was a deeply dark place that we would
call 'Hell', but it was just the projection of her own mind. In
the same way, if we leave this 'world' by whatever means with a
knowledge of who and what we really are, our experience will
reflect that knowledge, understanding and love.
consciousness and we create our own reality wherever we are.
Karma One: The basic assumption that suicide is bad come from
religions and religion is a believing. A Believing is an
illusion? So, if a life is unbearable for somebody, nobody can
forbid him to kill himself for moral reasons?
David Icke: We are eternal consciousness and death is an
illusion, as I have said. However, suicide is, by its very
nature, overwhelmingly the result of someone who is in a deep
state of depression, fear and anguish. To take your life in that
state will simply take you into another realm of experience that
reflects that emotional trauma. A living 'hell' in this 'world'
becomes a living 'hell' in another. That is why it is definitely
not to be recommended
Karma One: You seems to says that the Matrix became with the
time some kind of independent entity, some kind of Frankenstein
where the creator was overtake, outrun by his creature. You says
that if we change, the Matrix will change. But Let's speculate:
Even if we change our subconscious minds in a snap, don't you
think that the Matrix will defend itself and impeach that?
David Icke: I would say the Matrix is a projection of our own
minds, indeed each of us lives in our own Matrix because of the
way we each interpret reality. The Matrix may have taken on a
life of its own, but in the end it depends upon us, its source,
for survival. Put simply, if enough computers reprogram the
Internet the nature of the Internet must change or even cease to
It is the same with