by David Icke
Interview by Publishers Diana and Kenneth Burke,
Leading Edge Newspaper, July/August 1996


LE: David, can you tell us about your new book (...And The Truth Shall Set You Free).

David: Yes. It's about 500 pages of documented information which fits together so many things that appear to be independent of each other... and shows how the same few people actually pull the strings of all of them.


And, at the same time, it looks at the spiritual solutions because the very strong point that I'm making is that the conspiratorial and the spiritual are not isolated.


They're not independent. They are a reflection of each other. I'm a great believer in the idea that we create our own reality. I think we put out a magnetic pulse, a magnetic vibration like a broadcast, which is unique to us. It reflects exactly our sense of reality and our sense of self.


I feel that this magnetic broadcast then attracts to it other magnetic fields (people, places, ways of life, experience), which create, in exact physical replica of our subconscious mind in front of our eyes. I think that all the people and experiences, the things we attract into our lives, are actually reflecting back as part of us.

LE: Yes. We believe that also.

David: And, therefore, and it's increasingly probably true - a very few people control the world... not everything that happens in the world, but its direction toward more centralization of power and erosion of freedom.


Then, that must be a physical reflection of the collective human consciousness and its state of being. I feel it works like this: you can't control 6 billion people with taxes because there are too many people. But, you can do it by coup d'état of the mind, which is to persuade and pressure people through fear to think the way you want them to think, or preferably, not to think at all.


You're like a farmer. You can control a whole vast herd of sheep because most of the sheep will follow the one in front, and those stragglers that don't immediately conform get the dose of fear from the sheep dog.


I have actually watched one sheep dog round up a whole herd of sheep and I thought,

"Crickey! This is how the human race is controlled!"

What happens is that, if you look at all dogmas, all cultures, all societies, they've got what I call a "hassle-free zone."


This is that area within any culture, within each dogma (whether its a religious dogma or whatever), wherein you conform to the accepted thought and behavior of that dogma of that society. You're in the comfort zone (the hassle-free zone).


No one's going to laugh at you or condemn you for being different, for expressing your uniqueness, because you're locked into the herd mentality, and you're conforming to what you're told you should be.


When you step out of the herd mentality and you say,

"Hey, I'm me. I'm a unique aspect of all that exists and, therefore, I'm not going to be frightened," then you immediately face hassle or ridicule or condemnation, or, in my case, all of them in England.

LE: Most people are afraid to do this.

David: Yes. The fear of facing condemnation gets people to conform to what they think is acceptable to others rather than expressing who they really are.


So, what we have in the world, I feel, as a result of this, is vast numbers of people (the majority, particularly in what we call the West), who are walking down the street every day and living their lives, not projecting at the world their really unique elves, but putting on a mask which says,

"This is not really me, but this is what I think is acceptable so I can continue to live my life free from hassle."

Therefore, if we are going to succumb to this fear of our own uniqueness, whoever (and its a very few) can actually set the limits in society of what is acceptable to say, do and think... can control vast numbers of people.

This is how a few people, in my opinion, control the world. They set the limits in society's dogmas of what is acceptable to be, think or say. And because of a fear of being different and facing hassle, most people conform to it.

I believe that the human race has developed a form of collective schizophrenia in which we are not only the slaves to this imposed thought behavior, but we are also the police force of it. The reason most people don't express their individuality and actually deny it, is not fear of what prime ministers think of us or the head of the federal reserve.


It's what their families and their friends down at the bar are going to think of them.

LE: That makes a lot of sense.

David: I personally feel that the cause and the means through which a few people control our world is that we no longer respect our own right to be unique, and we no longer respect anyone else's right

LE: Can you mention a few details of the information you share in your lectures and workshops?

David: What I do in my talks is I connect and link the conspiracy idea with the spiritual. I talk about, first of all, how we're giving our minds away and the means through which we are conditioned to do that.


And I name an enormous number of names and organizations that are very famous, of people who are in the controlling hierarchy, including the President of the United States. I think it's important to do this.


As I say in the book, I'm not doing this out of condemnation, because the people involved, although they're expressing their own state of being at the time, they're also reflecting back to us the collective human mind itself.

LE: You're not condemning anyone for being a part of a conspiracy.

David: Right, I'm not into condemning people.


But I am into pointing out what's going on. One of the things I point out with very much back-u evidence, is how the same people, on apparently different sides of politics, are actually connected to the same organizations.


These organizations have a proven agenda of a world government, a world central bank, a world army, microchip population, and so forth. I show how these apparent opposites in politics are there to persuade us we have freedom so we don't realize we're in jail. These persons are not opposites at all but are a part of a one-party state.


The book shows very powerfully the connections between the last two U.S. Presidents, who were apparently opposites and on different sides - Bill Clinton and George Bush.


They were both involved with the same organization

LE: Can you speak more about this?

David: The media and politicians have a cozy unwritten agreement that projects a myth to people, which is that prime ministers, presidents and top politicians are the top of the pyramid in terms of decision-making in the world.


The presidents and prime ministers then walk around the world stage and act as if they are the final arbiters of power, and the media goes along with this, which means that the echelons ABOVE the Clintons, who actually pull the strings, never get researched and investigated because they are invisible to the public.


These are the people who decide who becomes President because they own the money and the media. The average person may think the President is the most powerful man in the world. No, he's not. He's only the most famous front-man in the world!

LE: Can you give a specific example of how the media is used to influence public opinion?

David: I mention in the book a mass mind-controlling technique which is used all the time, which I call the "problem-reaction-solution."


A problem is covertly created and you (whoever is doing it) make certain that someone is blamed for the problem. This might be a war. It might be a run on the currency, or a government collapse. It can be anything.


You then use the media to stimulate public opinion in relation to your created problem, so that the public cries out:

"Something must be done!"

At that point, the public will accept anything... as long as something is done!

LE: Okay. What next?

David: At that point, those who have created the problem got exactly the public reaction they wanted. They then openly, in the public arena, offer the solution to the problem that THEY created, and get the solution that they wanted all along.

LE: Can you give an example of this?

David: Okay. If you take the world army scenario (a favorite theme of this group of people), the last thing that the "problem-reaction-solution" required in Bosnia was an effective U.N. peacekeeping operation. If it was effective it could be effective in Rwanda and Somalia. If it was effective, there would be no problem to solve.


So, as a result of the U.N. peacekeeping operation NOT working, there continued to be a problem (and I document this in my book).


The U.N. peacekeeping WAS DESIGNED not to work. The more horrific pictures that came out of Bosnia, the louder came the cry:

"Something must be done!"

And, this was understandable from the public's point of view.


The solution put forward was, and is, effectively a WORLD ARMY... the 60,000 man force... the biggest multinational force assembled since the 2nd World War. I could on and on, but a common theme among all the people who have been the major peace negotiators in Bosnia, is membership in the same organizations that have as an agenda the creation of a world army.

LE: Let's relate the spiritual approach to this type of scenario, if you will.

David: Well, I always operate on two apparently different levels.


One is the here-and-now, the conspiratorial research level. And the other side, of course, is the spiritual, which is actually showing that, if you give your mind away, there are physical consequences.


If we take our power back and stop being a herd of sheep and start to express our individuality, then the ability of a few to control our world disappears.

LE: You know, you would think, hypothetically, that some of the people within the Rockefeller or Rothschild hierarchy might consider how much more money they might make if people were freely allowed to explore their own talents and creativity in a relaxed, fun, fulfilling way.


These people who own the world's money might actually make more money if people were happier expressing their uniqueness and individuality in their lives.

David: From the spiritual perspective that's absolutely correct. But from the perspective of the Rothschild/Rockefeller mind set, which is at the head of this hierarchy in general, they don't think that way.


While the esoteric knowledge of consciousness, energy fields and that sort of thing is often laughed at and condemned as either mad or off the wall or dangerous... the people at the top who control the world work with this knowledge and know this knowledge is true. This knowledge has been passed on across the generations since the mystery schools through the upper levels of the initiations in the secret society network.


What they wish to do is keep this knowledge out of the public arena because it can then be used against people.

LE: That certainly makes sense.

David: Once people realize they can control their own lives, that their own power exists within them rather than outside of themselves... then the game is over.

LE: You mentioned that you have at least some information about how the Rothschild/Rockefeller people use energy and esoteric knowledge to influence people.

David: I think there is some kind of consciousness which is working on a vibration that can lock into people. I find it interesting and I've had some experience with it... through coincidences leading me into the right place at the right time, of some of the knowledge of the higher levels of the secret society network.


What I feel happens is quite obvious when you see some of the things they do. There is an energy field created which allows some kind of vibrational compatibility between the initiate's consciousness and the consciousness that can lock into them.


I think in a sense that it almost bypasses the person's higher self, in a way, and becomes their guide.

LE: That's an amazing observation.

David: I see this malevolent energy, which I don't see as evil, as possibly being the shadow side of the collective human mind.


The more we fear and the more we get aggressive and the more we seek to impose and dominate, the more we are generating the vibration which is adding to the power of that shadow.


On the other side, the more we love, and I have experienced this, the more we are balancing out that negative polarity and using the positive aspects of the negative energy rather than having it dominate us.

LE: In your experience, by loving the negative energy we help bring it into balance.

David: Yes. I feel the balance between positive and negative, male/female, and yin/yang, whatever people call it, at that balance point you can find wisdom and you find you are taking positive aspects from both energies.


The more you get out of balance to either extreme, the more you go into the land of ignorance because you are denying yourself the knowledge and understanding that the other polarity (that you are denying) has to offer.


So, if you go to the negative polarity and you are denying and keeping out positive energy, then we get this malevolence, this wish to dominate, this conflict-creating fear which feeds itself with more and more negative energy.


If you go so far to the other extreme, of the positive energy, you get what I call "feet-off-the-ground" kind of energy in which you're in some kind of spiritual mist.

LE: And you're not seeing reality as it is...

David: You're not bringing your spiritual values and grounding them here on this Earth plane.


The negative polarity, if used as a balance rather than a dominating thing, will ground that positive energy in this Earth vibration so we can express it physically rather than be in on some plane that doesn't actually lock into this physical level.


When I meet people who are investigating the conspiracy but are not into the spiritual, I find people full of paranoia, full of fear, who are giving this conspiracy and the people behind it enormous power, and they can't see a solution to it because they can't see the spiritual solutions. I also find the mind set, which understands so much about how the conspiracy works and what its goals are.


They actually want to meet the energy that has created the conspiracy with another version of that same negative energy.

LE: Yes.

David: So, basically, they're also adding to the very energy that is creating the mind set that is creating the conspiracy.


When I meet so many people in the New Age area, while I share all the metaphysical ideas as a basis, I often find people who, so often, think that if you address the negative, then that's really bad. You must only address the positive.

LE: We know a lot of people like that.

David: But if you don't address the negative, either the negative gets more negative or stays as it is. What you don't do is change it.

LE: You integrate it.

David: Integrate it, exactly. I feel there is a kind of consciousness that has now moved beyond the New Age, that has taken the metaphysical basis, that has left behind the jargon, the irrelevant ceremony... although not all ceremonies are irrelevant, of course.

LE: The airy-fairy stuff...

David: The bull, you know, and this consciousness is taking the spiritual values and the spiritual understanding in the world that we live in, this dense physical vibration, and changing the nature of the so-called negative physical world, rather than denying that it exists.

LE: Beautiful!

David: I feel that this consciousness is at the front of the snow plow of the transformation of our planet, and it's saying:

"Yes. There's a conspiracy going on, and this is its goal and these are its methods. But, hold on a minute! We've created this!"

LE: Exactly. We've created it. We've created it. We're a part of it.

David: Yes, we're a part of it. So, let's stop condemning and let's stop saying,

"It's someone else's fault," and say instead, "If we're giving away our power and giving away our responsibility... that has allowed the conspiracy to happen... then let's take back our power and take back our responsibility."

Then we remove the means through which the conspiracy takes place. What my new book is saying is,

"Yes, this is happening, but, look, this is a solution to it, and you don't need a gun. You don't need another political party. You don't need another smoke-filled room."

All you need is to celebrate your uniqueness, de-link from the herd mentality, and respect everyone else's right to do the same. Suddenly, we've removed the (energy) vehicle through which a conspiracy can operate, which is our collective herd mentality.

LE: David, you've certainly shared a lot of food-for-thought material. Where do you get your information, if you can tell us?

David: Many people within government and intelligence agencies, and the military even, have known what is going on and have not known what is going on and have not known what to do with the information. They are choosing to give it to me.


They know that I'll put it out. I keep saying to people the worst thing that can happen to me is that my consciousness moves to another time/space reality, and that's the worst thing that could happen!

LE: We feel honored that you're sharing with our readers, David. And we know you're planning a tour of the U.S. to share more with our countrymen.

David: Yes. I feel that America is where it's at in terms of changing consciousness because of its effect on the world consciousness as a whole. If consciousness can be changed in America, then the world will follow, no doubt about it.

LE: We understand that an American edited your book.

David: Yes. Streams of coincidence got me on the phone to a book editor in Santa Fe, Sara Benjamin-Rhodes. She edited "...And the truth shall set you free," and she did a great job!

LE: Thanks for sharing.