April 2005

from Karmapolis Website


Gerry Zeitlin, an US astrophysicist who create the Internet Site "Open Seti" answers to some questions about the holographic model developed by David Bohn and Karl Pribram that David Icke used to build is own model: the Universe is a Matrix, a 3D predatory illusion.


Icke believes that we live in a "non solid" and virtual reality that we build through our collective subconscious. The Film "Matrix" is a metaphor full of meanings according to David Icke. And if Gerry seems to agree to some of the views developed by Icke about the cruel and alienating nature of reality, he don't agree to compare it strictly to a hologram.


Read and judge by yourself… short and crystal clear…

Karma One: What do you think about the Holographic model of reality that emerge from the research of David Bohm (3D reality as hologram) and Pribram (memory, brain works like an hologram, the "memory" is note store in a precise zone of the brain but everywhere and nowhere) ?

Gerry Zeitlin: It is not a useful model. Bohm and Pribram noticed that certain aspects of nature – quantum systems and brain functions – shared some of the properties of holograms, a hot technology of their time.


No serious scientist should conclude that those systems are holograms, but these two otherwise serious scientists seemed more intent on popularizing themselves, so they did.

Karma One: Matter is an illusion, full of emptiness. Atoms and quantum particles shows us that "solid matter" don't really exist. It is just an illusion. What do you think of it?

Gerry Zeitlin: That's correct, but "solid matter" the way we think of it could not exist. Meanwhile, as long as the illusion continues to behave the way we expect it to, who can complain?

Karma One: Yes but many people complains about reality. They suffer from it and feels that something is wrong ?

Gerry Zeitlin: When I said "who can complain", all I meant was that the illusion is dependable so we can live our lives with it. For example, if it were like a dream, in which a thing is one thing one moment but another thing the next time you looked at it, this could be cause for a complaint in the way I meant it. You couldn't get along if you tried to hammer a nail and found you had a noodle in your hand and the nail had become a gateway to the stars.

And YET... we DO suffer by taking the illusion so seriously. It would be better if we knew that the hammer is not a hammer and the nail is not a nail and all the things of which we are so certain are not at all certain. But, knowing that, we continue to "chop wood, carry water".

I object to calling reality a hologram, though, because a hologram is a piece of 20th century technology. In other words, it falls short.

I notice that Icke says it's really an Internet. You see, that's just the NEXT THING. What will it be in ten years? I fail to see the benefit of treating everything this way.

Karma One: Do you believe that the reality is the result of a consensus between minds, between conscious of each individual. Like Jung says, the result of the collective unconscious?

Gerry Zeitlin: There is no way to know if the consensus is the cause or the result of reality's behaving the same way for everyone, or if the "collective unconsciousness" is real.

Karma One: Do you think that we are trapped in our own believe, our own perception of reality? Some people like Michael Talbot and David Icke think that the reality is a kind of perceptual Matrix, just an illusion in 3D (plus Time dimension). If we change together in the same time the way we decided to feel the world, the reality and the nature of this Matrix will change?

Gerry Zeitlin: I agree that it is a virtual reality display, but it is mediated by our neurosensory system, and therefore cannot easily be changed unless that system itself is changed. Do we have the ability to change our neurosensory systems? I would bet that we do to some varying degree.


For example, the infant's developing neurosensory system changes in response to genetic directives, the environment, and perhaps the inborn consciousness. But for most of us as adults, that system is pretty difficult to change.

Karma One: Do you think that we can say that the "Authority", or what we call the future One World Government and the religion etc. want to reinforce the power of this Matrix by telling us what to believe and to disbelieve, what to like or dislike ?

Gerry Zeitlin: Yes, via elaborate systems that are in place and functioning.

Karma One: Can we compare this Matrix to the Gnostic perception of the World. The man fall in a imperfect universe, an error created by a mistaken Eon and guarded by the Rulers or the Archons?

Gerry Zeitlin: The mistaken Aeon and the Archon rulers or guards occur in many systems of thought, and so there is likely to be a kernel of truth in this story.


It is only too perfectly clear that humans inhabit an "imperfect universe", when seen from the level on which we usually operate. However I believe that seen from a "higher" level there is a purpose to all this and the system actually is "perfect".


Karma One: Do you see the film "The Matrix"? In this film, we are in fact battery, just energy to make the Matrix work. Our fear of being disconnected from the Matrix or abnormal is the best cohesion tool used by the "Agent" of the Matrix to trap us. What do you think about this metaphor?

Gerry Zeitlin: I think it is a very good metaphor. However I sense that the agents don't realize they are themselves being used by a higher system.