19 July 1996, 11pm-4am PT

from MindControlForum Website

 

 

 

  1. Featured Guest: Courtney Brown, PhD
     

  2. Transcribed by: PJ Gaenir

     

  3. Transcriber Notes: This transcription is verbatim. Some limitations based on web site Real Audio transfer and recording audibility are included. Efforts have been made to be accurate. Question marks indicate something which could not be deciphered (or in some cases, spelled).

 

 

[begin transcript]

ART BELL
A few announcements, and then a real cosmic voyage ahead. Because tonight as promised, a tenured PhD professor at Emory University, Dr. Courtney Brown, heads a group of remote viewers at something called the Farsight Institute. And this is one of the most fascinating topics that one can imagine. So all the way from the home of the newly opened Olympic games in Atlanta Georgia, Dr. Brown will come... [discussion of other subjects]
 


ART BELL
This morning's guest, Dr. Courtney Brown, professor Brown, also has a web page, and when you go to my web page this morning to get one of these crop circle pictures no doubt, and you want to know about Cosmic Voyage, about Remote Viewing, we have a linkup, as we usually do, due to the attentiveness of my webmaster, Keith Rowland. You will see that link, and you can jump over to the good Doctor's web page...

 

[discussion of other subjects]
 


ART BELL
All right, are you strapped in, are you ready? Courtney Brown, Doctor Brown, Professor Brown, P-H-D, is an Associate Professor of Political Science at Emory University in Atlanta, specializing in non-linear mathematical modeling of social phenomenon, environmental politics and elections. He held the Charles Grove Hanes's Professorship at UCLA and was a Hewlitt fellow at the Carter President Center.

 

He is the author of several books including Serpents in the Sand, sounds interesting, Essays on the Non-linear Nature of Politics {chuckles}, and - I like that title - and Human Destiny and Chaos and Catastrophe Theories, both published in 1995. The good doctor heads a group of remote viewers at a place called the Farsight Institute, and one of their main targets, I understand, has been Mars, but let us begin at the beginning, Doctor welcome to the program, can you hear me?

DR BROWN
I can hear you very well and Art, I want to say thank you very much for having me on your show, it is truly a great honor.
 


ART BELL
Well, it is a great honor to have you, and I can assure you that over the last weeks and months I have been inundated with faxes and email and so forth and so on forth saying, you have got to get Doctor Brown on! {Brown: ...kind words...}

 

Alright, I guess for our new listeners and we have many, who have not, and don't understand and who have not heard what Remote Viewing is, it would be in order, I've got sort of a written description you sent me here but I'd like to have your words, Doctor, for the uninitiated, what is remote viewing?

DR BROWN
Well, remote viewing quite simply is a mental procedure. Now, it's a trainable mental procedure. It enables a person to extract accurate, descriptive information from distant locations. Now remote viewing it also works across time, in the sense that the remote viewer can actually extract information from the past, present or future.

 

Totally transparent with regard to time, as if time doesn't exist, in fact we know now that that's not a metaphor, we know now that in reality, I'll talk about this as the hours go on but we know now that the actual fact is that time is a limitation of our perception, time is not a real thing.
 


ART BELL
Isn't that time is our invention?

DR BROWN
Well, that's what many people have recently been discovering, that we may in fact in the broader view of things before our lives and after our lives be a species that in fact helped design our current situation and [?] in fact an invention, but I, think I perhaps I should touch upon that a little later on in the show with a little more background to it, the reality is time with remote viewing is not a hindrance at all, you can see anything past, present or future.

 

Scientific Remote Viewing is the version of remote viewing that I'll be talking about tonight. It refers to -- sometimes it's called "SRV," Scientific Remote Viewing -- it refers to a set of protocols that are a modernized version of the original techniques that were used and developed by the U.S. military in the 1980's and 90's, totally for espionage purposes --
 


ART BELL
Alright, I'll stop you there, and those who don't know, Nightline, ABC's Nightline, did a full show on the military's revelations that they had been using remote viewers, remote viewing, doing remote viewing, in an ongoing project for what Doctor, 20 years, something like that?

DR BROWN
Well actually they'd been using operationally during that time the 80's was really when it was at its highest point, but the remote viewing studies, the scientific studies funded by the military had been going on for as long as, as long as 30 years. The military had been deeply involved in this for a, a long time for very very good reasons. First of all, it did just recently come out that the military was involved in all of this, but it was one of the most highly classified secrets held by our government basically since the Manhattan project --
 


ART BELL
-- and I take it no doubt that the Russians were involved as well --

DR BROWN
Well of course, there, you know during the cold war there was something on our side for everything that there was on their side, and vice versa, and they had their own psychic warfare espionage program, but they looked at it from a different angle from the way the United States did it. We approached it from the perspective of developing a set of procedures that could be trained so that you would not have to rely on natural psychics, and the Soviets went a different route, they developed a set of screening techniques that were used for sorting out the very best natural psychics in all of their territory.

 

They in fact did develop a program that was very successful. The U.S. military's program had an operational success rate, variously? reported but in general, 85% of the data had to be correct 85% of the time. {Bell: Wow.} Now that was extremely high, that was nothing remotely similar to anything you get with a 1-900 number {Bell: laughs} and that type of thing, this was a very highly classified project --
 


ART BELL
Well let me ask you this --

DR BROWN
But the Soviets did it differently, they used natural psychics.
 


ART BELL
-- and their success rate?

DR BROWN
Eighty percent. But that means they got to be fairly close to the U.S. accuracy rate. But the Soviet Union came apart, as you know, and it should be noted that their technology for doing this, for setting up a team and getting the procedures set in place that organized the highly trained psychics to get this eight-five accuracy rate which was no small task, those procedures were sold to the highest bidders when the Soviet Union collapsed, and two countries bought them, and one of those is a perceived enemy of the United States, that we have bombed in the past, and so, you can be guaranteed, whether you hear about it in the news or not --
 


ART BELL
Iraq?

DR BROWN
actually, it's so sensitive, there are a couple of topics that I don't want to mention specifics {Bell: and we just [found?] one of them?}, but they are, they are countries that we have bombed, that have, that long memories, that have grudges, and remote viewing will be around for a long time, if for no other reason than for national security interests.
 


ART BELL
hmmmn. what do you say to somebody who says baloney, new age, claptrap, what a bunch of silliness, there's no way to document the kind of success rates that people like yourself claim, I'm throwing the worst at you here {Brown: Sure.}, how do you respond to that?

DR BROWN
Well this is a very common statement, you must understand that it comes from a species that is genetically designed to be almost blind to the "other side" of life. In my book, Cosmic Voyage, quite literally as the subtitle says it is a scientific, scientific discovery of extraterrestrials visiting earth, but you must understand that much of the scientific community is hampered by the very fact that we are genetically set up, so to speak, to be so blind to that other side of life.

 

I call that side of life, that's been called the spirit side or the soul side, I use a more generic term, which is, basically there's a whole realm of life that we've now discovered on that other side of life, the side where we came from, where the soul is, we are in fact part of it, I call it the sub-space side of life, and that has in fact caught on quite well because it describes a whole arena of existence and we are in fact composite beings, with a physical, you know, blood flesh and bone --
 


ART BELL
Alright doctor let me ask you this -- [lack of clarity as Bell and Brown both talk]...
 


ART BELL
...with respect to this side, of life, and I agree with you, that but what I'm not sure about is whether it's something we once had, and have become numb to in modern civilization, and has always been there, or whether it is something we are now refining, acquiring, using more of our brains, is it something new or something old that is just now new again...

DR BROWN
It goes back to the beginning of existence. You see remote viewing is innate in every human, you don't have to be talented to do it, you have to be trained to do it, and it goes back, in fact the earliest remote viewers were the prophets, the ancient the seers, and some of them were pretty good {Bell: Nostradamus}, some of them were very excellent at being able to perceive things across time, across space, in fact many of our biblical stories are in fact fairly accurate remote viewing perceptions.

 

in my book Cosmic Voyage, for example, I [?] -- there's a chapter on Adam and Eve. And that was a very interesting target to look at, because at first we thought that was just a biblical story --
 


ART BELL
You looked at it?

DR BROWN
Oh yeah, because it's a very important -- we found out a very important thing, because in fact, see the remote viewing done by the early, early seers, they didn't call it remote viewing of course but they just had people who were naturally inclined, they perceived something, but they put it within their own framework of understanding, and these ancient seers perceived in their own trance-like states that there was a, somehow couple involved in the early days of humanity, and that somehow there was a dispute.

 

There was a war of some type, that there was some type of a betrayal, and that somehow Adam and Eve were somehow involved in the beginning, the Genesis of human life, as, as the early remote viewers the early seers knew it, so when we actually did the remote viewing for this, we found that in fact, the ancient prophets were pretty good, they got most of it right, what they didn't get is things that they could never understand within their culture, within their time, what they didn't get was that the couple, Adam and Eve, were project managers of a genetic and cultural uplift project [?...] --
 


ART BELL
Holy mackeral!

DR BROWN
-- they came here with ships, and there was in fact a sub-space, and physical dimensional war, and that the sides did in fact, did have to take sides -- [lack of clarity as Bell and Brown speak simultaneously]
 


ART BELL
Doctor wait, boy this is getting heavy fast, let me stop you -- again just for a second -- so that I understand and the audience understands, a practiced professional remote viewer, how does he do it? -- do you in other words, go into a trance state -- hear my whole question -- I would like to know, and the audience I'm sure wants to know, it it like, are you looking through somebody else's eyes, are you physically having an out of body experience and looking at it with with your own eyes, as though you would stand up in the room, in other words, I want to know how you see, and what it is that you see...

DR BROWN
OK. What these procedures are, very simply, when you're sitting down you're sitting down at your own desk, and the procedures for the remote viewing session, just the mechanical procedures themselves, take about an hour, with prep time of about half an hour, there's a lot, there's some analysis and other things that are done afterward, the total thing takes about three hours start to finish before you're out of there, but the actual procedures themselves start to finish take about an hour.

 

Now, the remote viewing itself, what it is is the following: the best way I can tell you what the experience is like, when someone is remote viewing during that hour of intensive orientation, it's not an out of body experience, that's something different. It is not a trance experience either.

 

What it is, is a shifting of awareness, a shifting of perception, now basically, look at this, what are you looking at now, you don't have to answer, just in general, you're looking at your microphone?, your listeners may be looking at the steering wheel of their car, or they may be looking at something in their homes, whatever they're looking at, they're looking at something, whatever you're looking at, in your mind's eye, keep your eyes open, bring in the image of a pencil.

 

Now with your eyes open, you're still looking at whatever at your look -- now you're also looking at this image of a pencil in your mind's eye, now note the [?] heart label, notice the #2 on the pencil, the metal band around the eraser, the pink eraser, the sharp point at the other end, notice that this pencil that you're seeing, even though your eyes are open and you're not physically looking at a pencil, you're nonetheless seeing a pencil.

 

And what we have found out is that -- this is from the neurologists that found this not, not the remote, they're neurologists -- have found out that inside the brain, there is a physical layer of cells that basically is in the frontal part and goes back of the brain, that the ocular image from your eye is projected onto, literally like a movie screen. And when you see the [?] heart label, the pencil and everything, the remembered image is taken from say, your hard drive of the memory, it's taken from your memory and projected on to that same screen.

 

But notice that image of the pencil, notice it's a little transparent, it's a little {Bell: Right.} translucent in the sense that you can see through it, not as bright an image as the stuff that's coming into your eyes, so the remembered image is dimmer than the actual ocular image.

 

Now, the remote viewing image, you get all the other senses working with remote viewing as well, but the, the basic, the image is dimmer still than the remembered image, it's foggier, it's fuzzier, it's [?] -- what you're doing when you're remote viewing is you're shifting your awareness, even though your eyes are open, you're shifting your awareness, away from the physical ocular image {Bell: I understand.} away from the remembered images {Bell: I understand.}, onto this remote viewing image --
 


ART BELL
I understand, Doctor, Doctor we've got to pause right here... stay right there, Dr. Courtney Brown is my guest and we'll be right back...


[BREAK]
 


ART BELL
And underway, a good, cogent explanation of what remote viewing really is. And for the first time, I'm beginning to grasp where we're going. My guest is Dr. Courtney Brown, Professor Brown from Emory University. He leads a team of remote viewers. You'd be well advised to listen closely, because maybe you too can take a cosmic voyage, I and suspect the answer is yes.

 

[discussion of other subjects]
 


ART BELL
All right here we go again, Doctor, welcome back to the program. I really am able to grasp so far where we have been, to look at an object in front of you, picture the pencil, which I can easily do, and that is as if it is from our hard drive, we have dredged this from our memory. But that is not remote viewing, is it?

DR BROWN
No that's remembering an image from the past. And it's as if there are three different projectors in our own brain, and the three are, the projector that gets images from the eye, another projector with a lower luminosity, a dimmer bulb, that gets images from the memory, and then a third projector with the dimmest bulb, and probably the foggiest lens, and that is the one that gets things from what we call the sub-space side of ourselves.

 

Now, I want to say something that's very important, that most of your listeners are going to really want to key in on this, you know there've been a lot of complaints over the decades, about wasted military spending {Bell: Yes.}, about how our military's spent so much money for a hammer, so much money for a toilet seat or whatever, but I want to tell you that the military, the US Army, the Defense Intelligence Agency, not the CIA, the DIA, every branch of the government has its own spies, even the IRS has it's own spies, but the defense intelligence agency, the DIA, the Pentagon, invested over a couple decades, only 20 million at Stanford Research Institute, now called SRI International.

 

20 million dollars is pocket change as far as the Pentagon is concerned, and for only 20 million dollars they developed over a couple of decades these protocols of remote viewing and let me tell you that if you have no other reason for wanting these protocols around than this, listen here: what the scientists did at Stanford Research Institute, at SRI International, the most, one of the most prestigious defense scientific think tanks, laboratories on the planet earth, what they did is give the world absolute positive proof, certifiable positive proof, in laboratory conditions, of the existence of the human soul.

 

Because you see, remote viewing is not possible in the absence of a soul, because you see don't physically go to any of these places but you can describe these things with "extraordinarily" accuracy across time, space, anywhere on the planet and beyond, exact descriptions, down to the most incredible details {Bell: wait a minute.}, reliably consistent --
 


ART BELL
Right, wait, wait just one second, that really is incredible, but how does it prove it - it - let me ask it this way -- you say it proves the existence of the human soul --

DR BROWN
Because see, the soul has different physics, different physical characteristics, different aspects, than the human physical body, it extends beyond your physical body, we now know that when the physical body dies it sloughs off -- you are not dead, the personality does not go away, the part of you that is in fact doing the remote viewing is the essential self, and that continues on -- and what you must understand is that the remote viewing itself, when you're doing that, we call that other side of ourselves, that is, human, the soul side, the "sub- space" aspect, and that, that is the component of yourself, the essential you that you're using when you're remote viewing, and it's that component that is projecting onto the physical brain, that foggier, fuzzier image --
 


ART BELL
Got you {Brown: that you're using...} but I'm -- but I'm still not clear, in other words, suppose I were to say to you, what you're talking about, I firmly believe, does exist, I believe you can do it, it can be done, people can be trained to do it, but: suppose I were to argue with you and say, it does not establish scientifically the existence of the soul, it establishes scientifically the ability of the brain to accomplish things that, that we have long forgotten --

DR BROWN
Well you see, the brain is a electrochemical physical apparatus [Bell: right], under the normal laws of three plus one dimensional physics, it is not possible for anything electrochemical physical to do what it does with regard to remote viewing, there has to be another component, another aspect, completely un... -- well, not yet completely understood by the science of today, and in scientific terms what you'd say is, there is a hypothesis.

 

An hypothesis is a statement that you want to see if it works out. {Bell: Yes...} And the hypothesis is, if there is a soul that is fundamentally non-physical but exists as real as the head or the foot or anything else, if there is a soul which is fundamentally non- physical then it should be able to do things, such as know things, perceive things, that the physical body cannot do, and so you give it a test, you develop and use these remote viewing procedures and in fact you find out that you have to reject the null hypothesis which is that there is no soul, you have to accept the alternative hypothesis that there is, because you in fact are able to do that which the physical body cannot do.
 


ART BELL
Well...

DR BROWN
That's the nature of the hypothesis testing - if you're wondering about that, I have to say that that's what all of science is out there doing, they're doing these hypothesis, they say IF this exists, then you must be able to this do X, Y or Z with it -- and that's how we build our airplanes, that's how we build our skyscrapers, our bridges, all the realm of physics, all the realm of science is built up, built up on establishing hypothesis, and these hypothesis are what we use to fundamentally come up with what we call our laws.

 

The laws of sub-space are in our, what you might call our state of Genesis, of understanding, we don't understand all of the physics of the soul, we don't understand all of the physics of the sub-space side of life, the spiritual side of life, but there is nothing in any spiritual text where God has forbidden us to ever investigate the physics of the spirituality, or the physics of consciousness, and we're just at that beginning.

 

So part of your question I've answered Art, the rest of the question is to be answered not by myself, but to be answered by physicists, other scientists, as the decades go on, as we unravel every little small piece of this physics of the soul. But we know at this point with absolute certifiable factual understanding, that there is more to us than just a physical body because in fact remote viewing would be impossible without that other aspect of ourselves.
 


ART BELL
Does remote viewing, at any point establish, truly, the immortality of the soul itself?

DR BROWN
Well, just the fact of being able to remote view does not do that. {Bell: Right. Right.} But having remote viewed both myself and re... - and have, and you know we've had over thirty students at the Farsight Institute, that's F-A-R-S-I-G-H-T like seeing far, one word, and we've had over 30 students, and the military itself trained nineteen remote viewers.

 

Having had these remote viewers operational, we now know that in fact we've perceived all sorts of things, that, it's clear as could be that we do not die. It's not just the existence, ability to remote view and train it, it's the fact that we have, once gotten that existence, gotten that ability, trained ourselves, used it perceive, before our own birth, after our death, we have perceived things that deeply go into the realm of the non-physical -- mind you, that everything that I've talked about with remote viewing as originally developed and in training, was always done with verifiable targets, physical hard targets {Bell: Understood.}

 

That you can verify, so when you use these exact same procedures, you get extraordinarily accurate, great accuracy rates, on the more difficult targets, more esoteric targets, things with the realm of life after death and so on, we get very, very good, reliable types of information, using those same, those same procedures that are sufficiently accurate to risk men and women's lives on the battlefield for, you can then use those procedures to answer other questions {Bell: Yes...}, other more global --
 


ART BELL
Alright, before we leave the nature of the soul, I want to ask you about the nature of the soul, obviously you, far sight, with regard to the nature of the soul, Doctor, do we come back, are we reincarnated, are --

DR BROWN
We have, we have found that there is no police force out there that would stop a personality, a sub-space being, a soul, from coming back in physical life if he or she so wished. We have found that in fact many people have had, we have checked it out, we have remote viewed under totally blind conditions and I'll explain that later on in the show, under totally laboratory type conditions, we have found out that in fact, people have existed before, we have found out that they have existed in physical form many times -- you see, the physical body, we know, is just a vehicle, like your car, and after a certain number of years, it wears out and it drops off -- but the driver is still there.

 

The driver, the personality, the sub-space being, you may call it the soul, is there before the physical body is turned on, and it's there after the physical body decays, and drops off. But we absolutely know that the body is just something we live within, we are occupying it, and the genetics of the body is absolutely spectacularly fascinating {Bell: It is!} because our genetics are so structured that, in our particular genetic mix, a lot of ET's we now know, do not have genetic mixes, genetic mixes like ours, our particular genetic mix makes us almost totally blind to the flavor of the soul, to the memory of who we were, who we are in fact, where we came from.

 

In fact, in ET circles we've found out that we are often referenced as a species, as -- and not derisively, not mockingly, but with admiration -- we are often called 'The Masters of Limitation' because we have collective, we have a set of genes that, that develop into bodies that make us almost blind to whatever came before, and whatever comes after, and we don't see past time, we don't see past our physical bodies, our physical experience, and that's because of the genetic structure we have, other ET's have different genetic mixes, and in fact, don't have those problems at all.

 

Well you may say, 'Well that's a problem with us,' but --
 


ART BELL
In fact, I would say, doesn't it mean we're more or less cosmic dummies?

DR BROWN
Well, you could say that, but you see, before we were physically born we knew everything, and after we die, we know everything once again, what would be the purpose of wanting to come into these very limited physical bodies? Well the purpose is, we now know from remote viewing, data that goes back a long time, we now know that what happens when you come into physical form like this, by forgetting everything that you've been before.

 

You basically as far as you're concerned, have a hundred years, approximately, a little less, or more whatever, however long you live, to pack everything you possibly can imagine into that short period of time, every experience you can possibly think of, to make love one more time, to get another car, get another job, to go to the beach one more time, to get, to write one more book, to do one more thing, the point is you develop your personality more in one lifetime as a physical human because you run a race of time, for those few short years of your life you do everything --
 


ART BELL
Otherwise we would be like cosmic welfare recipients sitting around not concerned about packing anything into this life at all --

DR BROWN
We have found out that -- in the sub-space side of life -- you don't die, that there's no real pressure to develop, and development occurs more slowly {Bell: Fascinating.}, this is an acceleration school that we live in, and in fact, I might mention that we have remote viewed a few other species, and in fact when you remote view Adam and Eve, right now of course they're not dead, they're not dead anymore than when they were project ET genetic and cultural uplift managers in their project here, but when you remote view them, and it's an interesting flavor that is sometimes perceived, some of the remote viewers don't perceive much of a change in Adam and Eve when they were back here on Earth long ago and where they are now, and they have a different genetic mix, much more transparent across the sub-space divide.

 

So they knew from the get-go that they were composite beings, two things put together, physical and sub-space, and even when I did the remote viewing on them I sort of said, boy someone needs to put a burr under their saddle, they've not done much in all these thousands of years, so that's what the advantages of being a human is, by cutting yourself off from the past for these short years, you put yourself through the juggernaut of trying to evolve quickly and when you're done, you know I must say that we have found out, this was done, not only through remote viewing studies but also at the Monroe Institute in Faber Virginia, it's an institute developed by Robert Monroe, --
 


ART BELL
I was honored to interview Robert Monroe before he died.

DR BROWN
He's a great being, and when at the Monroe institute they had found out, using different technologies but -- technology that has also been extensively used by the U.S. military -- that when people graduate from the human school, from the human experience, when they go on, and they finally(?) had enough, they are extremely well respected out there, basically it's one of these situations, you find someone that no longer comes back into human form, no longer needs to experience, goes on and does other, bigger better things.

 

I mean infinity is a long time to be around, so they have to keep on doing things, but when other beings interact with someone who's graduated from the human experience, the word has it that they're incredibly impressed, but -- it's sort of like you bump into them and say

"Wow, you're a very impressive person, where'd you come from?" and the person would say "Well, I'm just so&so, but I, I used to be human, but I don't do that anymore" and the other person would say, "A human! you mean, you, you graduated from the human [?], you mean you basically became self realized while you were human, you became, you became aware of who you were inside the human limited form?"

 

And the person would say, "Yeah, that's what I did," and then the other person would say, "Well now wait a sec, this is like amazing, like, start in the beginning, we have to know everything like how'd you do this, so like, you were born? alright, so like, then what happened? -- "

[lack of clarity as both Brown and Bell talk}....
 


ART BELL
...like a monkey can suddenly talk --

DR BROWN
Yeah, it's a, it's a very, an impressive thing when someone graduates from the human experience, that's what we've, that's what Bob Monroe and their Institute found out extensively -- [lack of clarity as both Brown and Bell talk}....
 


ART BELL
...a fairly rare occurrence? {Brown: Pardon me?} Fairly rare occurrence?

DR BROWN
It doesn't happen as much as it will happen in the future, because when you are in such a limited physical body, that is so cut off from who you were, who you are, it really is tough to fight through it, and a lot of specialized procedures are often used to accelerate that process, remote viewing is one of them, the Monroe Institute offers a variety of others, and in my book, Cosmic Voyage, I actually offer, I also talk about other procedures, meditation procedures that are very compatible in a mechanical sense, non-belief-oriented sense, such as TM, the TM Siddhis program, which are oriented around literally just the concept of self realization.

 

Understand self realization is simply one thing, it's a very simple thing. It something that a person while in physical form became experientially aware of their other side, the soul, the sub-space side, as much as they're aware of their hands and their feet -- [lack of clarity as both Brown and Bell talk}....
 


ART BELL
...it's like you're talking about a sort of a cosmic speed course --

DR BROWN
That's what the human experience basically is.
 


ART BELL
Yes indeed, but in terms of rising beyond or even approaching graduation, you're speeding these souls, these, toward that toward that end, and have you ever been concerned that you are indulging in unnatural, process?

DR BROWN
No, we're learning, and it's not unnatural at all because we're not doing anything that's unnatural, other than learning in the remote viewing sense, to shift the awareness to something that is already there, something that has already been there since the beginning of time, it's just a flavor of information, a sense of data that is coming across, that is mostly ignored except in those intuitive moments.

 

For example: if a woman, with children, any mother will tell you that if something's wrong with her kids, I mean seriously wrong with one of her children, she'll know it {Bell: She'll know it. Yes.}, she'll have no ambiguity something's wrong, or something's wrong with a person's spouse, the other person often knows deep in their heart something's going on, and what that is is the sub-space side of life, the, the, the soul, the sub-space being, that aspect, is picking up remote viewing in a sense, and in a very crude way, bludgeoning through all the electrochemical apparatus that's genetically, that's genetically programmed, bludgeoning through that awareness, into the physical electrochemical brain, so that it comes through finally that's something's wrong, and we pick it up as an intuition.

 

What remote viewing is, Scientific Remote Viewing, the version that we use here at the Farsight Institute, is a way of writing down those intuitions in a scientifically controlled fashion -- [lack of clarity as both Brown and Bell talk}....
 


ART BELL
Discipline? Discipline would be a word wouldn't it, for that? In other words, a disciplined intuition.

DR BROWN
That's a good way of writing, that's a good way of talking about it, you might also add to it a, a discipline with a involved set of mechanical features. So it's not that you simply have to be disciplined like an Army Sergeant, but you're following a set of procedures.

 

We know how the -- we've got the bugs worked out of these procedures, in fact, the procedures that we now use at the Farsight Institute, Scientific Remote Viewing, are much more evolved than the early military, version -- everything changes as it proceeds, and I'm a scientist, more than anything else, which means --
 


ART BELL
Right. Well the only thing I was concerned about with understanding of the nature of the soul, is that in essence you're taking, say a 12 year old prodigy and graduating that 12 year old from college and thrusting that 12 year old out into the world from a soul point of view sort of, and, and that some of your subjects are missing what they should have gone through, now think about that for a moment, we'll break here at the top of the hour, relax, we'll be right back, this is radio, we've got lots of time, Doctor Courtney Brown, Professor Brown, my guest, we'll be right back...


[BREAK]
 


ART BELL
Good evening. Actually good morning for most of you across the nation, evening for Alaska and Hawaii yet. My guest is Professor Courtney Brown from Emory University, he leads a team of remote viewers. Remote viewing is a mental procedure that enables a person to extract accurate, descriptive information from distant locations.

 

Remote viewing also works across time, in the sense that a remote viewer can extract information from the past, present or future. Scientific Remote Viewing refers to a set of protocols that are a modernized version of a technique developed and used by the U.S. Military in the 1980's and 90's for espionage. These protocols allow any normal, well balanced individual to remote view with tremendous precision.

 

Scientific studies using multiple remote viewers employing these protocols can yield results that approach one hundred percent accuracy, consistently. Scientific remote viewing has several distinct stages. Each one brings the remote viewer into closer contact with a target. A target is the location, person, or event about which information is desired. In each stage, different types of information are extracted about the target, and the overall result is typically a complete set of descriptive information, including sketches.

 

In a moment, Professor Brown once again.


[BREAK]
 


ART BELL
Alright back now to Professor Brown, who happens to be in the city now opening the Olympics, Atlanta, Doctor Brown you're back on the air. We talked about remote viewing, the nature of the soul, and the last question I recall asking is, are you certain that you are not, in effect, taking people who are supposed to go through more of these "limited life experiences" and graduating them early...

DR BROWN
Well that's an extraordinarily important question. Two parts to the answer, both short. First of all, we are aware now that most people don't have a few life experiences but many, many lifetimes, or life experiences, and school is not bad, we all go to school, we shouldn't be superstitious about learning, opening one's eyes does not hurt us, but with that in mind, let me say that, I'm going going to say now something that is my opinion.

 

All things of course that I'm saying are something that is my opinion but in this particular thing I want to emphasize that this is my opinion and that the military remote viewers, as much as I love them all, they're, they've all had their moments of genius and their contribution to this entire field, every single one of them has been great, but in my opinion, the military remote viewers were not well served by the exact method of training and procedures that they went through, because they learned remote viewing in the absence of a broader course in the growth in consciousness, it started be - out as a parlor trick, it ended up as an espionage tool, but, you know before -- you know.

 

In my years of exposure to these people, I have yet to find one that spoke to me in terms of them understanding what they were actually doing when they were remote viewing, that they were using their soul to extract the data - they, at least in conversations with me never put the two together and made an understanding that this has a soul, or a sub-space aspect connection, it was always a 'strange new power' --
 


ART BELL
That actually makes sense, and I would expect that's the way the military would approach it, they wouldn't want to get into or even care about, and probably would shy away from, any discussion of what might seem to be of, a religious nature --

DR BROWN
Yes, but the result is, you know, we strip away religion from this discussion and just say, "If it could happen, it's in the realm of science," and what we have to say is, in my personal view that some of the military people were - - well, were, were affected in a, in, in a way that was not always the best, which is regard to the perception was, that I can do this now, it's an ability, I'm different from, better than, capable of doing something other people can't, and then, you know, the normal process of competition within them, egos growing and things like that, this is not, a fault of a personality but, the process itself was not well explained to them, and it's partly the result simply of the fact that we were new and learning the procedures and understanding the ability in the beginning and these things were, were normal.

 

But, as a consequence of my, of my personal interactions with these people that - I have restructured the training program completely at the Farsight Institute, not only have we modernized the actual Remote Viewing procedures, but we also imbed the training with lectures, discussions, presentations for example, with regard to other approaches to consciousness, so that we encourage people not just to learn how to remote view, with great accuracy.

 

But to also pursue growth in consciousness that leads them in the direction of healthy self realization, in that regards, we have a very close and supportive relationship with the Monroe institute in Faber? Virginia, they use a different type of technology that is oriented toward self realization, and we also support the use of TM, Transcendental Meditation, and the TM Siddhis program, the advanced version of that, which is a mechanical approach we've found it to be very compatible with Scientific Remote Viewing --
 


ART BELL
If I may, let me stop you -- before we get away from the military aspect {Brown: Right.}, I know that you don't want to discuss other people, and I don't think we need to, but I did interview Major Ed Dames, who was involved in the military program, and is now out, has formed a company called Psi-Tech, and what he said to me was very interesting, he said, when we were doing the military remote viewing, we were concentrating on very specific espionage- related military targets, it was very, very disciplined, and, but a funny thing happened along the way: we began to see some other things.

 

For example, he said, we saw looking into the future, we saw babies dying. Now, we didn't pay attention to it, we, it was seen, it was noted, and it was dismissed because it was not of interest to the military, and then he expanded on that after he left the military, and he has since gone back and done more work in that area, but would you expect that would be true, that a lot of the military people saw things that they simply dismissed, they simply, erased, as part of the discipline {Brown: Mhmmn.}, to get the target they were after, yes?

DR BROWN
Yeah - Well actually, the story that you just said is, is very interesting, and it literally every single one of the military remote viewers has their special mark in history with regard to this whole thing, and, and the story that you just said is very interesting, because, that is exactly what occurred, many things were happening in the sessions when they were doing it, and things were being observed, that they didn't know how to - how to place - for example, they would for example be trying to locate [?], a terrorist, or they would be going after, the location of Mohamar Khadafi, or they would be trying to do some type of operational, thing with regard to Desert Storm, and in the process of doing all of this stuff, some of the remote viewers, many of the remote viewers, most perhaps -- and -- although I do not, uh.

 

I myself was not in the unit, I was not in the military, so, I didn't have personal contact with every one of them, but perhaps all of the remote viewers, did notice things sort of over their sub-space shoulder, over their remote viewing shoulder, light beings, other things happening, things that were happening on the sub-space side of life, and in fact, they were not capable of dealing with that information, so they dismissed it --
 


ART BELL
The military, the military didn't "want" them to deal with it --

DR BROWN
They didn't want them -- they didn't know "how" to deal with it, it -- remote viewing itself didn't fit into the normal accepted paradigms, and certainly the stuff that they were getting didn't fit into the normal accepted paradigms, and one of the things that has happened with Scientific Remote Viewing, is that we have changed, at the Farsight Institute we have changed some of the procedures, most of the language, making it more easy to teach, making it simpler, but in the same sense we've expanded the procedures, and, we've expanded the types of information that we get so we explicitly in our sessions now have places for, and recording.

 

We explicitly have procedures for recording the things that were dismissed by the early remote viewers, all of the sub- space activity for example, we have explicit places for that information to be recorded, we don't dismiss it any more, I might say just as a vignette on that interesting topic that you raised, is that there was a -- I, I don't really want to talk about personalities, but there's one personality I will mention.

 

There was a brilliant general, two star major general, Albert Stubblebine, who was in charge of the area under which the remote viewing unit was assigned {Bell: Okay.} in INSCOM, and the, the problem with General Stubblebine from a job perspective, was that he was doing his job, perhaps a little bit too well --
 


ART BELL
Meaning what?

DR BROWN
I have been in -- pardon me? Well in the sense that he ran into a lot of problems within the military when his remote viewing teams began to come up with data, results, and he as the good General started to report it, and some of the data dealt with some of this information that was being discarded, that was being not used, no place for it, not within the right paradigm, and some of the military higher-ups.

 

Looked at General Stubblebine with not, not complete favor, and he ran into some, some professional problems, really due to no fault of himself, the information he was carrying was a little bit too different for a lot of those people, and so, you know, within any institution there are types of information that are accepted within that institution, that's not just the military but any institution, and some of the remote viewing data absolutely stretched the military's levels to it's very edges --
 


ART BELL
I bet it did -- I mean, if you were trying to figure out where Saddham Hussein was, and you had a team concentrating on that, and somebody came and talked to you about Adam & Eve --

DR BROWN
-- yeah, or while you were remote viewing Saddham Hussein you saw a light being over your shoulder, they'd think you were nuts.
 


ART BELL
That's right.

DR BROWN
But the reality is, life is more complicated than we thought, with our simple, narrow, limited three dimensional plus one 1 time expectations.
 


ART BELL
Believe me, military careers can slow to a crawl over things like that.

DR BROWN
Yeah, and, and General Stubblebine was one of those people who took a little bit of flak, and there was, you know, all of these people, every one of them, had their great moments in the history of this development.
 


ART BELL
well that would be true, and probably suffered greatly for it, like most founding groups or fathers.

DR BROWN
Well stated.
 


ART BELL
so now you've got a private organization -- Farsight Institute is private, is it?

DR BROWN
Right, what we, what I did was, I had, when I wrote Cosmic Voyage, a Scientific Discovery of Extraterrestrials Visiting Earth, that's, that's under the [?] label, it's a Penguin Book, when I wrote that, I was originally going to treat this just as any other book, the only difference between my use of Remote Viewing and the military's was that instead of looking for terrorists or bombing targets or whatever, I used those same procedures, but aimed them up, towards the extraterrestrials, the ETs, the UFO phenomenon, the enigma, and I focused just basically on that.

 

But, when I did it, I had the expectation, as controversial this book would be, and I knew it, I had the expectation I had to walk away from it, start my next book, right after that, just like all academics do, we write one book, we finish it, we go onto our next project. But at the very last stages of, right before the book went into production, it had gone through all of its editorial stuff, it had gone through everything, I had a conference call with, my editor, and the lawyers, the best legal minds available in New York on literary matters {Bell: I'll bet.} and they're the lawyers of Penguin, and there's the conference call.

 

And they said,

"Doctor Brown, we have one last thing: you have described to us your procedure, what you went through to get training from some of these military guys. Well, there aren't many of them out there, and you know, what you had to go through, was something that may be difficult for a lot of people, to go through,"

...in terms of finding them and getting things going at least at the time, that I was doing this, it was very difficult for me to get the training, but I finally got it, and, and they said, "and the people that are available for training don't do it the way you would suggest it to be done," now, the whole thing about Science is replicability, that's the fundamental characteristic of science, is you've got something going on the laboratory, you've got to be able to replicate it --
 


ART BELL
Absolutely.

DR BROWN
-- under the exact type of conditions. So they say,

"Doctor Brown, we need an institute, there's got to be an institute for doing this stuff the way you think it should be done, that's the whole clai], I mean, we're going to put ourselves, this is a major press, Penguin, we're going to put ourselves on the line and push this book, and don't you think we need an institute?"

...and that was the lawyers saying this, and then I said, "Well an institute, but I don't have an institute {Bell: laughs}, I just do my research and I go onto my next book," and then there was this, long, pregnant pause, and my editor chimes in and says, "Boy we'd sure like to sign off on this book today, Dr. Brown," and I said, "Oh. Is that it?"

 

So the implication was that if I didn't [?] an institute [?...] there'd be -- so I basically just squeaked out, "Ok, I'll do it," but, you know, I realized what that would mean, that would mean hiring secretaries, I'm just talking about organization -- but I did it, and I'm glad it actually happened that way, so we now have an institute, a regular, full-fledged academic institute where we teach people, anyone who is interested, from scientists to reporters to just plain interested people, how to do the most modernized form of the originally military derived, remote viewing protocols, and we have regular classes, we've had a variety of classes.

 

We've trained so far 31 remote viewers, and I must say, that 28 of these remote viewers have given us written permission to post their results up, or parts of their results up, the results that are understandable and can be presented easily on the Internet, to post these results up on the Internet, and, to date I've got, we've got 11 results, partial results, posted up on the Internet, so people that go to your web page, and then snap over to the Farsight Institute web page, you might -- you mentioned my web page -- people that go over to my web page, they can go to a section called the Student's Corner, and they can see 11 results, and all done under totally blind conditions, which is what we use at the Farsight Institute.

 

Art - I hope you ask me one time what that actually means, 'cause that's very important, your viewers are going to want to know, what does this, how do we know this really works, to know that you have to know what blind conditions is all about --
 


ART BELL
Doctor, you have Viewers, I have listeners.

DR BROWN
Okay. {Bell: laughs} I'll, I'll do it then. What blind conditions is, that the Farsight Institute only uses blind conditions. Now what that means is, now get this: we have a target that we want to send someone to, to perceive, to accurately describe in minute detail, say, the great wall of China, or the Eiffel tower, or the assassination of J.F. Kennedy, anything that you can think of, we can go to. And we have, that target, but we don't want to tell the viewer what the target is.
 


ART BELL
You don't?

DR BROWN
No. Because then the viewer's mind, the conscious mind, is going to be all activated and everything in memory is going to start flooding out, and they'll start saying, oh, I remember what this is, and so, it'll be more difficult for the remote viewer. So what we want to do is to give them the identification of the target without telling them what the target is. So what we use is two four-digit random numbers. The reason is, these numbers come from a random number table, or from a computer program that we use --
 


ART BELL
Alright doctor, we must, this is network, and we must break here --

DR BROWN
I'll describe it right after the break.
 


ART BELL
That's good -- stay right there. Professor Courtney Brown, author of Cosmic Voyage, is my guest, Remote Viewing the topic, we'll be right back.


[BREAK]
 


ART BELL
My guest is Doctor Courtney Brown, a tenured PhD professor at Emory University. He runs the Farsight Institute, a group of remote viewers. It is a fascinating topic. And we're going to get back to it in just a moment.


[BREAK]
 


ART BELL
All right, now back to Professor Brown. Professor, if you had not been a tenured PhD, at Emory, after Cosmic Voyage was published, would they have blown you out of there like a bad dream?

DR BROWN
Well that possibly could have happened, but you know, to give a good story about this, John Mack, a tenured professor of Psychiatry at Harvard, Pulitzer Prize winning author, founder of the department of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, when he came out a couple years back, year and a half ago actually, about two years back, with his book "Abduction," which was about the basically one species of G- of ETs called Greys...

 

Fascinating book, when he came out with that, Harvard went through an academic inquisition no less, and that's unheard of these times, where basically they dragged him through approximately forty closed-door hearings, lawyers-only type things, where they were trying basically no-holds-barred to get him removed {Bell: Right.}, now --
 


ART BELL
M-Hmmn. Actually it was a very close call.

DR BROWN
It was a very close call, and after a year and a half of closed door meetings and really, nip and tuck as far as John Mack was concerned, Pulitzer Prize winning author or not, he almost lost his job, and what finally happened after a year and a half, the dean finally put closure on it, and said ah, I guess this is an academic freedom issue, and, you know just closed the -- closed the door on it, said this is it, let's not hear any more about this, John Mack can do whatever he wants, but by doing that, John Mack actually set out a principle for all universities {Bell: Ah.}, because by doing that, he forced Harvard to make a statement saying that people studying these high, advanced level subjects of consciousness and extraterrestrials, ETS, UFOs, that this is legitimate within the range of scientific inquiry.

 

By forcing Harvard to do it, he saved the careers of an awful lot of other scientists, because no other university's going to do something that, that Harvard finally at long last decided not to do. Now understand Harvard is, is not known for its innovation. Harvard basically hires people that are, that have done their creative work and you know, they are, really, often their creative work has been done elsewhere, and then Harvard hires them, you know, after they become you know very big --
 


ART BELL
Very conservative.

DR BROWN
And in that sense Harvard is very conservative, not the, the bastion of innovation and creativity as much as they are the defense of the orthodoxy, and they have a prestige to defend, and you know the harder, the higher they come, the taller, the harder they fall, [inaudible] --
 


ART BELL
What about Emory? Have you run into any --

DR BROWN
I've run into no problems with Emory, I don't know how much of it is because of Emory's long standing commitment to academic freedom, which really is there, or, and how much of it is due to the fact that my book came out after, right after John Mack forced Harvard to make that decision [inaudible] --
 


ART BELL
Alright, let us return now to remote viewing. You were telling us that in order to insure that there's not a lot of false information flying about in the brains of these viewers, they are assigned targets by numbers. Now I can't understand that, how would a series so -- so make me understand --

DR BROWN
OK that's fine. So this is what's called blind conditions. What we have is, we have a target, the Great Wall of China, the Eiffel Tower, the assassination of JFK, [?] whatever, and that's our target, that's what we want to get information about. Now we don't tell the remote viewer that this is what the target is. What we do is, we say well let's go to the computer program or to a table of random numbers and get two four-digit random numbers.

 

Why two four-digit?

 

Well it goes back to the old military days, it's a tradition, where they thought coordinates were needed, geographical coordinates, latitude and longitude, so that's a leftover from those days when we have two four-digit random numbers, but they're totally random, they mean nothing to the conscious mind.

 

And on a piece of paper, right next to whatever the target may be, say you know, Nagasaki destruction event, we put down those two four-digit random numbers. Now. We then go over to the remote viewer, and we say, here is the target, and we tell the remote viewer those two four-digit random numbers, say, 7275-5131.
 


ART BELL
There is your target --

DR BROWN
And the remote viewer writes those two four-digit random numbers down. Now. That's "all" the remote viewer is given about the target. Now. The physical conscious mind, the electrochemical brain has no way of knowing what those numbers mean {Bell: For sure.}, that, that, that they mean the destruction of Nagasaki or Martians, [?] {Bell: I understand.}, ETs, Greys, President Clinton in the Oval office, [?] St. Louis, whatever it may be -- has no knowledge of what those numbers mean.

 

But: the sub-space component of the remote viewer, you might call it the soul, or some people call it the unconscious, we have found that the vast other part of ourselves, the essential being of ourselves, has instant awareness of all things, including what those numbers represent. And what we do is we send the remote viewer through this set of procedures, mechanical procedures, on those numbers, beginning with those numbers, and the information that comes across through the soul, through the sub-space aspect, projected onto the brain, dimmer, foggier, fuzzier.

 

But nonetheless the remote, the remote viewers are trained to recognize it and to write it down, that information is written down, and what we do at the end of the end of the session is we have a complete description of what that target is, and the remote viewer was never told what the target was, and then at the end of the session after all the information is down on the piece of paper, in indelible ink, can't be erased, after all the information is down we then, the remote viewer says "whew! That's over. What was that?" and we tell them, that was --
 


ART BELL
OK now let's get to the scientific repeatability aspect of it: can you take Remote Viewer A, and assign them, Target A in, in one room, and Remote Viewer B, C, D and E, in separate rooms, and assigning them the same target, and establish roughly the same report?

DR BROWN
That's exactly what we do! Except, we don't do it with two. At the Farsight Institute we typically do it with eight students at a time, all separated, so they can't see each other working, they're all separated physically with barriers, but the point is, we teach them the procedures, and then we give a target, and then all eight work on the target {Bell: Right.} in silence, all separated, they can't see each other, and then at the end of the session, when we say put your pen down, put your pens down.

 

We then collect everybody's session up, and then one at a time we put them on the table and everybody looks at everybody else's session. You can often hear a pin drop when they look and they say -- you know, you can always discard your own work, they say - you say, ah I must have done that by chance, how could I have done that, but when you see eight other people in the same room coming up with the same information, it's just awe inspiring.
 


ART BELL
Alright, give me the numbers with regard to your research so far, what percentage of accuracy can you reputably demonstrate?

DR BROWN
Well, it varies as you get better at it, so when you first start it, but, but, I should say this, to start with, we have not had a single person in our institute, of 32 that have come through, that have not been able to learn it, and have not been able to do it, every single one has -- can do it. We know how to work this now, we've got all the bugs worked out of this. Secondly, information at the end of training is as good as the military people "ever" were.

 

But: the requirement is that the people at the end of training have a professional monitor, someone to remind them of which procedure comes next, there to make sure that no mistakes are made. After the initial week, intensive training that we give, we have another course, called Farsight Seer, which is the professionalization course, where even that limitation is removed because they become monitors themselves, they become, they become experts, they become professionals, and then we even have a teacher training course, and we're actively teaching.

 

We're actively developing a large teach -- group of teachers -- so the point is that a professional, someone who's gone through the introductory course as well as the professionalization course {Bell: Yes.}, those people -- and if we do, everything that we suggest especially, and don't do anything wrong, we do not have a "single" unexplained missing of the target. In the sense that, as long as nothing was physically done wrong, like a blunder as might be done in say the introductory parts of training, as long as there's no physical blunder, no gross mistakes, in the execution of procedures, which is very rare among professionals, we don't have a single case of anyone completely missing the target. We know how this thing works.
 


ART BELL
So you're saying repeatable --

DR BROWN
Replicability is the bottom line.
 


ART BELL
A hundred percent of the time?

DR BROWN
Well, what we're saying is the following: like when you ride a bicycle, you fall down in the beginning. So do you say, well is the bicycle going to be stable 100% of the time, well in the beginning, you fall down, but you know, look at the Olympic bicyclists, it's a very rare damned -- it's a very rare moon whenever they fall down off a bicycle, you know they're good at it -- so the point is, when people do everything that we say [?], that, that we tell them to do -- you know it may be in the future that we'll find out that you know, certain percentages of the targets don't work very well, but the reality is, when people become professional using this stuff, we - and they don't make - and there's no gross mistakes being made in the procedures - we don't have a single case yet where people have completely gone off target. {Bell: That's quite a claim.}

 

So we really understand this, and, I must say that I am a scientist, and all science evolves, so that what we know now is an improvement over what was going on in the original military program, and what will go on in ten years and in twenty years will be an improvement on what we do now. So, science is constantly evolving.

 

There is no original perfect set of procedures that [good?] for the rest of time, everything evolves, and that's why we look at the - at the Farsight Institute as a real academic institute where research is going on, where we constantly innovate and do things -- by the way I should also mention, that we have a medical course that we anticipate to offer in the beginning of 1997, and the procedures are being used, very accurately and productively in hospital settings today.

 

And you know, you never do it if somebody has broken a leg, if it's a broken leg you just fix it --
 


ART BELL
Diagnostics?

DR BROWN
But, but for very complicated diagnostics where you don't have the foggiest reasons, idea of what to do next, doctors can use it, and actually come up with very, very important information about what's wrong with people.
 


ART BELL
Really remarkable, alright, let me take you in a sort of a side direction for just one moment. {Brown: OK, sure.} Having established what you can do scientifically, and I think you have established that, let me ask you about ethics a little bit.

 

If I were not an ethical person, and I came to you and I came, and I went through your course, and I went all the way through your course and became "very" good at what I do, could I not, with my talents, attain great power, great riches, great everything -- in other words use this, ability, for personal gain -- must I be ethical with it, or is the very process itself driven to do, to an ethical boundary, or stays within an ethical boundary, you see what I'm trying to ask, I'm sure --

DR BROWN
The point is that we truly live in a free will universe, and the remote viewing procedures are mechanical, they are not belief oriented, so anything is possible, including what you just suggested -- with that said, however, I want to state that at the Farsight Institute we take particular efforts, very great efforts to explain remote viewing in the realm of larger growth of consciousness.

 

For example, we now know that it is literally the sub-space component of all of us, the sub-space side of us, of our composite nature, two things put together, our soul, that actually does the perception. And if you look back at it, what did the military use it for? -- now this is not a criticism, this is just, this was their business and they had to do it this way, but what did they do it for --
 


ART BELL
Wait doctor, the same sort of thing that I'm going to ask you about right now, bringing you back down to ground level. I go through your course. I go to work for some microchip company. {Brown: Right.} I say look guys, how would you like to have the latest research, two or three years ahead of what you're doing, going on in Tokyo right now -- I can give it to you, I can give it to you, $500,000, a million dollars, whatever it is, I can give you this technology.

DR BROWN
That's already going on.

 

There is a, a remote viewer that a military remote viewer, Joe McMoneagle, who's out at the -- who can be -- he often shows up in classes at the Monroe Institute in Faber Virginia -- he's a natural psychic, he's not trained, he's a natural psychic and he has an accuracy rate of about 80% -- but he works for contract for private companies all the time, and there are a significant number of patents out there where people hire him, and some other remote viewers, for technology transfer, but most of all from off planet and from the future.

 

And patents are, people are making money on patents with regard to this stuff -- there's another professor, such as myself, but this is a full professor at a very prestigious, one of the most prestigious engineering universities, colleges in the country, that is getting patent after patent after patent using a remote viewer, and he has actually tried to show some of his colleagues how they're getting the information.

 

But the colleagues just don't want to listen, they just say, just take your patent, I don't want to know how you get it, but you know, the point is that, he with the remote viewer has found, has, has found an ET, an ET library, believe it or not, a library, and they're -- works on the level of consciousness and they're just tapping into it -- [lack of clarity as Brown and Bell both talk]...
 


ART BELL
...again, the ethics, now, if I go to a company and I say, look guys, I can steal the latest for you, the key word there is steal, theft, it is theft, if you're able to remote view somebody else's technology then assume it for your own, that, Doctor, is theft.

DR BROWN
Yeah -- well you understand that this level of secrecy that you're talking about being broken only exists within the limitations of our genetic makeup. Once you break that, there are no secrets anymore. I'll give you an example --
 


ART BELL
At that plane, yes, but here on earth Doctor, that is theft.

DR BROWN
No, on earth now, we've broken it now, on earth, in the physical level, we're no longer limited by this anymore, we can remote view anything. So all those secrets are no longer secrets --
 


ART BELL
No more secrets.

DR BROWN
Let me give you an example. In my book, Cosmic Voyage, there's a chapter, I was monitored by a former retired high ranking member of the military during the entire process of writing this book, of doing the research, and this monitor sent me, under completely blind conditions, into the white house, into the oval office --
 


ART BELL
Oh really...?!

DR BROWN
And I described that session. And it took 25 minutes for me to go through the procedures, and finally I said to the monitor, I'm sorry, but the only thing I'm getting is that I'm in a room, it's round, and I'm standing in front of the president, President Clinton is here, what am I supposed to do now? And at that point the monitor ended the session, as that indeed was the target, and he told me afterwards that's the target, that's end of session, took 25 minutes, and then the monitor says, yeah we could have done some interesting things, I could have sent you into the mind of the president, but you know, being former military types we still have some respect for the commander in chief {laughs}.

 

But the reality is, he could have sent me right into the mind of the president to extract any information that was necessary.
 


ART BELL
Seems to me Doctor, if you can really do that, you could be killed for that.

DR BROWN
Well, no, it's not because of me you see, we're teaching people how to do this now -- [lack of clarity as Brown and Bell both talk]...
 


ART BELL
You could be killed for that.

DR BROWN
Well I have a respect for our president as well, so I don't do things like that.
 


ART BELL
But maybe not all your students will.

DR BROWN
Well actually, to be quite honest, we do teach them how to enter the minds of people in training, that's part of the training process, it's {Bell: Really.} called a deep mind probe, and I just had a student the other day --
 


ART BELL
No fourth amendment problems here eh?

DR BROWN
Well, we have to understand science is changing and, and, you know you could have said, in the old days, you could have said, well when technology changes does the rest of the world has to stop, but we now know that when technology changes, and remote viewing is a technology now, our physical realm has to adapt, and --
 


ART BELL
Alright now, hold it there, we're going to break, and we need one after all that, we'll be right back, Doctor Courtney Brown is my guest, don't move...


[BREAK]
 



ART BELL
My guest is Professor Courtney Brown. He is a tenured PhD professor at Emory University. He has written a book called... isn't that terrible? {laughs} It's cosmic -- is it Cosmic Journey? Cosmic Voyage? It is... a Cosmic trip, that's for sure.

 

And what we have done, in the last in the last two hours, is to establish the scientific validity of remote viewing, the ability to look, at a distant geographic location, the ability to look at a distant person or object, the ability to enter their mind, the ability to read into the future -- see, literally, into the future or the past -- and without without going through all of the discussion of the past two hours I will tell you, if you have been listening, you should be, by now convinced, of the scientific reality and viability of remote viewing.

 

We have not yet talked about some of the targets that Doctor Brown has viewed. That part is coming up. I could not have done that, ladies and gentlemen, in my view, without having established the base, the scientific repeatable base of proof for the existence of remote viewing. Having done that, and I think, having done that, we will indeed begin to ask about specific targets shortly.


[BREAK]
 


ART BELL
Doctor Courtney told us that under scientific conditions it is possible to take eight trained remote viewers -- I said eight, in separate rooms, assigning them a target, not one that they know of, but a number that relates to a target, or more specifically actually does not, and the eight remote viewers will go to their target, report the information, then these eight will be gathered together, the notes, the information on the target will be identical, it can be done with trained pros to the point where it is or can achieve near 100% accuracy.

 

That's scientific, it's repeatable, and I guess it's real, and it's kind of, it's kind of frightening, isn't it doctor, for the uninitiated --

DR BROWN
Well, for the uninitiated, it could be a little bit new, and all new things are a little bit surprising, but I want to say just to help clarify something, that the results necessarily are not, are not necessarily identical across remote viewers, and that is because the personality of each remote viewer is involved in what they particularly go for.
 


ART BELL
But isn't the goal to suppress as much of that, --

DR BROWN
That's right, but let me explain: Every remote viewer goes to the site and gets aspects of the site that are clearly, clearly, unambiguously related to that site. But not every remote viewer goes to the same aspects of the site.

 

For example, if you're to target the blowing up of the 747 that happened couple days ago, then, and you're to send eight remote viewers there and figure it out, what's going on, you may write the target in such a way that all eight remote viewers, they'll all get an explosion, they'll all get people dying, lives, people falling out of the sky, they'll all get a jetliner blowing up or something like that, some aerial explosion, but some of them may, if this thing was a missile for example that blew it up, some of them may give you much more detail about the missile whereas others won't even have any detail about the missile.

 

If it was a bomb inside the airliner, some of the remote viewers might actually pick up how the bomb was actually placed in the, in the jetliner, where as other remote viewers wouldn't, wouldn't have gotten that particular information. {Bell: Alright, so that's clear.}

 

So, the personality of each remote viewer gets different aspects (Bell: That's clear.), so that it's not that we're all carbon copies, also when we do things at the Farsight Institute, we sometimes put people in separate rooms, but other, but we also have training where all eight people are in the same room, but it's a very large room and they're all separated by barriers, so they can't see each other, so but nonetheless your description is correct in the sense that right after that they are separated from each other, and right after that they come together and review everybody's work. It's really quite a moving experience for everyone when they first start seeing that.
 


ART BELL
I brought up the subject of the effects of it, and somebody sent me a fax here that says, "Knowledge can't be owned. It's not theft. It's merely the universal database and access to it."

DR BROWN
In fact, getting into some of our targets, ET related targets, we have to understand that the big difference between us humans and advanced ETs is, as a rule, technologically as well as experientially, they are self- realized, the ETs, they have complete understanding of the composite physical and [inaudible] --
 


ART BELL
Are you sure they are --

DR BROWN
They have no secrets.
 


ART BELL
Are you sure they are -- well there are no, in your world there are, there are no secrets in it, there are no longer any secrets, that's a frightening prospect. Are you sure they are ETs? I know many have seen beings of light. Different beings, how can you be sure these are really extraterrestrials in the very purest form of the meaning, they are living on or have been on other planets in other systems?

DR BROWN
Good question. Art, there's no ambiguity about this.

 

With the exact same procedures that are used to put men and women's lives at stake on the battlefield -- and the military had a minimum eighty-five percent accuracy, eighty-five percent of the time -- that was better by the way than some of their normal spy stuff, because you know, when you get physical spies out there, a lot of the physical spies are given disinformation {Bell: Yes.}, not everything you get is correct, so the remote viewing data was very competitive, often superior, than the information they got from their regular ordinary spies.

 

So, with that same level of accuracy, and above, we've used this same procedures to target the extraterrestrials, and one thing I want to tell you and you do not have to believe me, science is not a matter of belief, it's a matter of replicability under controlled scientific laboratory conditions, and, we do not have just me as a remote viewer doing this.

 

Besides the military folks, the former military folks, we have thirty one, thirty two remote viewers, thirty two remote viewers at the Farsight Institute who have become very proficient at getting information from physical targets that are just normal, Eiffel Tower, whatever, using the same procedures on ET related targets, and getting very, very accurate results in the sense of compatibility.

 

Meaning, if someone goes to Mars and is supposed to be looking at something life-oriented around Mars or on Mars, you get all the same people describing the same thing, using the exact same procedures. Now if the procedures didn't work, we'd have no business committing men and women's lives on the fields for this. {Bell: That's right.} the procedures do work -- [inaudible]
 


ART BELL
OK here's a hard question, a hard question for you, on the subject: it is my understanding that the military is now, or claims, that they have ended their remote viewing project, correct?

DR BROWN
That is correct.
 


ART BELL
If it's so damn effective, then why have they done that? If it's better than human assets on the ground in many cases, with regard to intelligence matters, why in the world would they end the project? Or is the answer, they really have just ended the public, knowledge --

DR BROWN
That last part is [inaudible] -- there is, there is still an operational capability within the military. There are people still in uniform who are remote viewers, and one in fact that is a very high ranking military officer. With that said, I must say that there are three different reasons for the, for the elimination of the actual unit.
 


ART BELL
Let's hear them.

DR BROWN
The first is, that the Generals themselves have their own traditional belief systems that the remote viewing stuff really goes right against. They're like anybody else.
 


ART BELL
Religious... ?

DR BROWN
All types of traditional belief systems {Bell: Alright. I can buy that.} religious and stuff like that, and when you start bringing in remote viewing stuff, you start challenging basically "all" belief systems, because you're bringing in vastly new information. {Bell: OK. I can buy that.} And so some of the Generals have a difficult time with that.

 

The second reason for it is that politically, remote viewing is not easy to do, to accept on the political popularity reasons. What is the problem is that the American government {Bell: In other words, getting money for it?}, might not want a scandal.

 

They do not want people saying, oh this is another way of throwing money down the drain and the military's investing in psychics, and {Bell: Yes, OK...} the government wants to avoid things like that, because it takes too much time to explain it.

 

You're having me on for over two hours {Bell: Right...}, people are basically just now getting it right, but in the normal news, you've got a ten second, thirty second sound bite at most {Bell: That's right.}, and it's just too difficult to explain, and the government says, I just can't explain this. {Bell: Well that's why I hate TV.}

 

So well basically that's the problem, so the government has eradicated these types of controversies.

 

The third reason for this is that the government is now backpedaling a lot with regard to this program. They're acknowledging the existence of the unit, but they are very, concerned about what happened to the members of the unit. The unit was supposed to be very highly classified. {Bell: Oh? And it's all broken out.} And it's everywhere.
 


ART BELL
But still doctor, I can't believe they'd stop it -- look our CIA, bless their hearts, they've got the morals of an alley cat, and if they could get information about what's going on in Russia or China or whatever, I'm just absolutely certain they've still got a program going on somewhere, maybe not the military one that accounts for your beginnings, but --

DR BROWN
There is no training program going on, I know that. The only -- there is no training program going on right now within the military. Really they're trying to distance themselves from what has occurred as the former, now retired, remote viewers, are, a number of them, not all of them, there were you know, nineteen people that were trained by, Ingo Swann.

 

The original military group, and their, you know, the military right now is trying to backpedal as fast as they can from some of the people that were in the unit that are now coming out publicly talking about it. Basically we're talking about breaking security oaths, we're talking about coming out publicly writing books, trying to make movies, things like that, on something that was one of the most highly classified projects ever {Bell: Right.}, and the government's not happy with that, and the military itself is not, not looking [inaudible section] all this information coming out from its trusted spies --
 


ART BELL
Then how come, how come Ingo, Major Dames, all the others, whoever, why are these guys still walking around, why aren't they --

DR BROWN
Well they've actually clamped down on all the others, they have their own, they have a few Internet outlets, one of them has almost become what you might consider the former military's home page {Bell: {laughs}}, you can get to it by going under Yahoo and looking under, under remote viewing, just search remote viewing under Yahoo on the Internet, and you'll get two institutes,

  1. one is mine, the Farsight Institute. Actually I can't just say it's mine anymore, there's so many people working

  2. the other is the Controlled Remote Viewing home page of one of the former military people

{Bell: Right.}, ...and the whole history of the unit, all of its bumps and everything, warts and everything, can be found there. And you know, the government's not very happy about that.

 

In fact the Controlled Remote Viewing web page of this retired unit, was actually decimated once by a hacker that got into the internet site where it's housed, got through all the firewalls in fell swoop, went to the home page, eradicated it without eradicating anyone else's, so badly that it couldn't be rebuilt, and had to be uploaded originally again --

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