Krapf: I actually was expecting to
go to the Bay Area UFO Expo and talk about the decision to go
ahead. That decision had come down earlier in the year.
So, you know, in January 2000, I had my contact, and there were
humans there in consultation with the aliens, the Verdants, and
they were kicking around some of the problems, and the Verdants
had expressed some concern about some of the things that were
going on, that weren’t encouraging. And so, they were kicking
this around, and then they were going to decide whether or not
they were going to go ahead with it, that was in January 2000.
That’s all detailed in the book, of course, the latest book.
Martin: And I have one of the key quotes right in front of me,
about the reasons why they are discouraged, basically because of
mankind’s moral corruption, etc.
[The Challenge Of Contact, quoting:]
“Well,” I asked, fully aware I
was being childish and petulant, “can you at least tell me
what they might be discussing in general terms that a person
of my limited intellect could grasp?”
“Sure,” Martin replied without skipping a beat. “Children
killing children. A global pandemic of violence against
women. Corporate greed ravishing the world’s resources for
their own selfish ends with no regard for the disastrous
ecological and environmental legacy they leave for future
generations. The airwaves filled with rancor by men and
women, both secular and nonsecular, consumed by hate and
narrow-mindedness. Incivility of massive proportions. Skewed
values and a loss of moral direction. Apathy and unconcern
for the less fortunate, cruelty of all sorts. Unconscionable
terrorists killing and maiming innocent victims.”
[Continuing later:]
“Third-world nations that don’t have the capacity to
adequately feed, clothe, shelter, and provide medical care
for their citizens, squandering their paltry resources on
the development of nuclear weapons. Ethnic cleansing.
Pedophile clerics. The resurgence of religious and ethnic
hatred and massacres. Religious zealots who rant against
government but who would establish a theocracy to impose
their narrow and tyrannical dogmas upon the populace.
“A sapping of the moral spirit, a malaise of the soul.”
Etc., etc.
[End quoting]
Krapf: Things are not going as well as they had expected. But
the decision did come down about a year later, in January or
February of this year. I found out about it, actually, in March,
when I was at the International UFO Congress Convention in
Laughlin. I was told by a human emissary that the decision had
come down. I was overjoyed, of course, because I was going
through a lot of stress myself, because I’m basically the only
one that I know of who has gone public, and put myself out there
on the line.
I was looking for some support, some
back-up.
And finally, when the decision came down that they would go
ahead, then I knew that things would proceed according to the
time-table, so early next year, 2002, I would start getting some
support. People would start coming out.
So I was really, really delighted. I was going to make the
announcement, and they told me they didn’t want the announcement
made yet. Now, I don’t know why. But anyway, in August, I did
get the go-ahead. They said that they would have no problem if I
wanted to release the information, and so, I wrote the news
release, and sent it to Byron to post on the website.
And then I was going to announce it, also, at the Bay Area UFO
Expo. Unfortunately, the events of September 11 changed all of
that.
Martin: Let’s take it from the last
experience that you had, when they told you about this, and then
let’s backtrack from there.
Krapf: Ok. Are you talking about September 11?
Martin: The most recent contact. Let’s go into that in some
depth, because we want to explore that issue.
Krapf: Now, this meeting lasting only about half an hour. It was
very cursory.
I was taken up there. I met with Sarah, Martin, and Gina. Now,
Gina is my personal tour guide and attendant. Sarah was the one
who led the discussions in January of 2000, she was leading the
panel of Verdants and humans, who were discussing these critical
issues. And Martin was a person who—he had an attitude.
Martin: I sensed that from your writing.
Krapf: He represented the minority opinion that we simply
weren’t prepared yet. But anyway, I was watching television, and
then I had come over to the computer in another room, but I
still had the television on and was still listening to the
television.
At that time, the bluish-white light
appeared. I knew it was coming, because it had happened two
times before. And under normal circumstances, I would have been
overjoyed. But this time I wasn’t overjoyed. I knew that this
was not good. I could hear the news in the background. I knew
that I was going on another journey, and so I appeared before
Martin, Sarah, and Gina.
Gina was very sympathetic.
Martin was not sympathetic; let me put it that way.
Sarah was informing me that the events that were occurring were
simply unacceptable, and the decision had been made to put the
“contact” on hold.
And I could understand it, because if we went ahead with the
contact, and let’s say diplomats had met—the efforts to
establish diplomatic relations—and they had met in the suggested
“new city” that was supposed to arrive, they have to be
concerned about their security, too, because even though they
are very intelligent and everything, a bomb still can take them
out, or a sniper’s bullet, or anything else can take them out.
Martin: So that means “Genesis” is on hold, too? [Note: Genesis
was to be a new city, which was to be located somewhere in the
American Southwest. This new city would serve as a central hub
for intergalactic ambassadors and human interactions of all
kinds.]
Krapf: Everything is on hold. The whole plan is on hold. And,
again, it’s encouraging a little bit in that they have not
abandoned us.
Now, this Martin person, he is very pessimistic about the
prospects for our planet. He simply doesn’t feel that we’re
going to make it.
But the Verdants themselves, basically, are stepping back,
taking a look, seeing if we’re going to revert to our typical
ways, or if we’re going to somehow get through this and show
some display of moral fibre.
Martin: What would an indication of moral fibre be?
Krapf: I don’t know.
Martin: What would be a representation of moral fibre? Would it
be challenging the “powers that be”?
Krapf: I don’t know, it wasn’t explained to me. But I can
understand their position at this point, with what’s going on.
If we show our better nature, I suppose. But I’m getting into
speculation, and perhaps I shouldn’t do that.
Martin: No, speculation is fine.
Krapf: And show that we can get through this crisis with the
better elements of human nature being displayed; if we don’t
revert to type and just start slaughtering each other, then I
suppose that efforts will be made, again, to get this thing back
onto track.
Martin: Well, obviously—you’re not too familiar with our paper,
but we are well known for publishing very frank discourses on
what we term “the evil elite” controlling the planet.
Krapf: No, I’m not familiar with the paper, quite frankly.
Martin: I’m a little bit perplexed in that the Verdants, as
“representatives” of the Intergalactic Federation, are watching
as—what we will term, for lack of a better phrase—the evil elite
forces, as they implement their sinister plans, as evidenced by
the New York event. There is a whole rest of the planet, which
are well-meaning, well-intentioned, souled beings, who seemingly
are at the mercy of the events of the elite at the top of the
pyramid of power.
I understand that the Federation has a non-interference
directive. However, are we to assume, if there is a hiatus, that
the Verdants will, if the populace, the well-meaning, Godly
populace, does not rise-up, somehow, against this peak of the
pyramid, controlled by evil forces, then basically the planet
goes to hell?
Krapf: As they say, as they have said on many occasions, our
destiny is in our hands.
So, they are not our saviors, and they are not going to step in,
because there is a—I suppose it is a kind of cosmic
Darwinism—you know, you let Nature run its course. And if we
happen to turn our planet into a cinder, I suppose that is just
the way that the Universe works, and you move on to your next
venue.
They, of course, were trying to establish diplomatic relations
with the people of Earth, to try to help us make the transition
as “space-farers”, but they certainly do not want an aggressive,
hostile species out there. And they’re not going to allow it.
And, as Martin said, “You are not going into space.” It’s as
simple as that.
I mean, it was almost a, well, it was a prediction, I guess, of
sorts.
Martin: Well, I’ve heard over the last 15 years, in my research,
I’ve come across the phrase “prison planet” more than once. And,
granted the planet is evolving, changing, and moving into a
higher state of consciousness, but not everyone is moving in
that direction. And there is a polarity of good versus evil,
dark force versus the light, whatever terms you want to use to
describe the polarization of good and evil. For the actions of a
few evil beings to impact the entire forward motion of planetary
evolvement, in terms of intergalactic contact, I don’t know.
I know that the Verdants are not the exclusive representatives
of the Intergalactic Federation; there are the Pleiadians, and
there are a number of others.
Krapf: I don’t know anything about those.
Martin: There are a number of entities who have made contact
over the last 10, 20, 30 and more years.
So, basically, it’s a “wait and see” kind of situation for them?
Are they just going to take-off?
Krapf: No, they said: “We have not given up on you.” They still
believe in the - would you like to take some time to read the
statements just posted on the Internet?
[I had not read them at the time of this interview.]
Martin: Yes, I would.
[Pause]
Martin: You know, I don’t blame them. You’ve got to be
reasonable about this. However, when you look at the firemen in
New York City, just as an example of the best of a rallying of
the human spirit, there can be two ways of looking at this.
There can be the viewing of the crazy people who brought about
this incidence of violence; and there can be the viewing of the
rallying of compassion and love and caring, for the people who
have been harmed, in an effort to help.
Krapf: I think that’s why they haven’t gone away.
In other words, they haven’t just pulled-out, and said “That’s
it; we’re through.”
They’re just stepping back. Anyway, that’s their decision, not
mine.
Martin: I’m not trying to give you a hard time. I absolutely
understand.
Krapf: They just said we’re not ready. And, I agree. Quite
frankly, I agree.
Martin: It’s hard to disagree, from a higher perspective. If you
look at the news, we’re ready to bomb the hell out of anyone we
want, it seems.
Krapf: We’re ready to enflame this whole world. Who knows what’s
going to happen. I hope cooler heads prevail. If they are
criminals and they have to go after criminals, fine. But if they
start just lobbing bombs, and some hothead decides to push the
nuclear button, that’s going to be a chain reaction, in more
ways than one.
Martin: It’s a whole new world, at that point.
Krapf: Absolutely, absolutely. As I say, it was very
disappointing news to me. But I’m still encouraged.
Martin: The title of your book is The CHALLENGE Of Contact. I
think that’s an apt title.
Krapf: Yes, indeed.
Martin: Because this is one of the challenges that are faced,
and you say, in the book, you list all of these things about
mankind that really need work. We have a lot of work to do.
Krapf: We’ve also had warnings. I never thought about it at the
time that I heard them, but these were warnings to us. I look at
those things in retrospect. They were sending signals. You’ve
got a sense of what has occurred.
Martin: I do. Do I have your permission to use these three
announcements, quote them verbatim?
Krapf: Absolutely, yes, I want those to be disseminated. As a
matter of fact, I insisted with the publicity department, and
with my publisher, that they recontact and re-confirm all of my
appearances, interviews, book-signings, things like that.
Martin: Based on this new information, I guess.
Krapf: For people to have the opportunity to back-out. But I
have had them re-confirm all of my appearances.
Also, I told Byron that any books that are ordered, I want
people to be directed to the website, to understand the latest
developments; or I want these things to be printed, copies made
and inserted into the book, so that people are aware of the
latest developments. I don’t want to distribute the book without
people being made aware of this, because they may not be
interested in the book anymore, and I don’t want to sell it to
them under false pretenses.
Martin: You don’t want to mislead. The fact of the matter is,
the recent developments do not negate the contact that has taken
place. The message is still there. The information about our
society is there. The fact that they are there is in print. The
fact that you had contact with these beings is documented.
So, that WAS the purpose of your contact, to document these
events.
Krapf: And to let people know that there is, in place, a formula
for establishing diplomatic relations when we can. Let’s look at
ourselves as, let’s say, a country that we are dealing with.
Let’s say it’s a country instead of a planet. When we show that
we are worthy of it, then you start talking about possibly
establishing diplomatic relations. If you’re a rogue nation, I
understand when diplomatic ties are severed. I can understand
that.
And in this case, now, instead of a country, we are a planet. We
almost are a rogue planet, the way things are going.
So, even though we don’t have diplomatic relations that can be
severed, they are withholding efforts to go ahead and establish
diplomatic relations until we get our act together.
Martin: When the student is ready, the teacher appears.
Krapf: It’s as simple as that.
Martin: Now that we’ve brought everybody’s hopes down with the
current news, let’s just back-up and talk about this whole
thing, a bit.
Let’s talk about the craft, the Goodwill. Can you just explain
what it was like to be on a spaceship?
Krapf: [Laughter]
Martin: It’s got to have been just a mind-blower for you.
Krapf: It’s a unique experience and I’m not sure words can do it
justice. It’s awe-inspiring.
And, of course, I had to do a lot of readjustment in my
thinking, and my belief system because, as I’ve said before many
times, I never believed in this kind of stuff.
Martin: And I want to ask you about that. What did this do to
you?
Krapf: It’s hard to say. I’m certainly a different person today,
but it’s more internal than external. I’m still a member of the
human family, so I conduct myself as such. I live in the
suburbs, and I have my car, my house. I’m just retired. I’m just
living kind of a normal, quiet life.
Martin: Not everybody has Gina knocking at the door. [Gina is a
Verdant, an extraterrestrial being.]
Krapf: That’s true. It’s been an exciting adventure, something
that I could never have envisioned, just a few short years ago,
when I just didn’t believe in this sort of thing. I really
didn’t pay too much attention to it, quite frankly. I wasn’t
interested in it. I didn’t believe it, so I wasn’t interested in
it.
When John Mack came out with his book, I thought, “Jeepers,
what’s wrong with him?” Because here was a very prominent,
mainstream person himself, a leader in his field, taking this
position. I was actually kind-of shocked.
Do you remember the old radio psychologist in Los Angeles, Dr.
David Viscot?
Martin: No, I don’t.
Krapf: You don’t? I used to listen to him all the time. I
thought he was really, really sharp. He broke the news one-day.
I guess this was after John Mack’s book came out, and he said,
“There’s something going on, folks.”
This shocked me to hear him say that, an actual “mainstream”
person. I didn’t think anybody who was in the mainstream could
say something like that.
Martin: What about the Disclosure Project? Was that something
that the Verdants were involved in?
Krapf: I have no idea.
Martin: You’re familiar with that?
Krapf: Yes, I am, of course, sure—Steven Greer.
Martin: That seems like a pretty major event.
Krapf: That’s something that I’m not involved in. have no
experience with it. People have speculated about who’s involved,
what their relationship is in terms of the efforts to establish
diplomatic relations, but again, that’s all speculation. I have
no knowledge of it.
It wasn’t discussed with me, by either humans or aliens.
Martin: By any chance, years ago, did you see the movie Starman?
Krapf: Was that with—
Martin: Jeff Bridges.
Krapf: Yeah, oh yeah, sure, I saw that.
Martin: That’s kind-of representative of where we are at. We
send out a probe inviting visitors here, and then they show up,
and basically we shoot at them.
Krapf: People often ask me “Why are they going through all of
these complicated procedures to make contact?” And they use the
cliche: “Why don’t they just land on the White House lawn?”
I never use that cliché, because it is a cliché. Land on the
White House lawn? What I tell people, when they say that, I say,
that’s called “an invasion”.
Martin: It’s called “force”. It’s not allowed.
Krapf: That’s a good way to get shot down. You know how the
military is going to react to a spaceship coming in and heading
for the White House?
Imagine a jet plane from Cuba—they want to establish diplomatic
relations—imagine that they send a jet plane to head for the
White House.
Well, you don’t do that because you’re not going to get there.
As I say, that’s called an invasion. What you do is, you contact
people in that country, or on that planet in this case, and you
say: “Let’s talk; let’s see if we can get something going here.”
And then there’s a protocol, I suppose. I’m not in the
diplomatic corps, so I don’t know what the protocol is, but
there are procedures.
And what you do is, you make contact. You initiate further
meetings. You set up some kind of structure. You get more and
more people involved, and finally you get the leaders of the
country involved. Then, you sit down and try to hammer out
rules, and treaties, and things like that. That’s the way
diplomatic relations are established.
Martin: Well, my understanding is that the ETs, a number of them
from different species, have been in contact with our government
officials since the 1940s, and basically the cover-up has
continued, and the people know nothing about it.
It’s a question of: If Earth is going to be brought into the
Federation of Planets, and become a member of the Galaxy, the
Galactic Family if you will, then it has to happen on an
individual, human level, not with governments; because the
governments are part of the conspiracy of silence, and they’re
also part of the problem.
Krapf: Ok, well, yeah. But I quite frankly can’t see how you can
establish diplomatic relations without actually involving the
leaders.
Martin: You DO have to involve them. There’s no question,
because they are the structure that’s in place.
And, obviously, the Federation has it’s own set of guidelines as
to how these things take place.
And, I’m sure, they can’t go outside those guidelines, because
they are so much more highly evolved than we are; they know what
they’re doing.
Krapf: Now, there are countries that do not get along—but there
are Red Cross people, and charity workers, and humanitarian aid,
and even religious proselytizers who make contact with people in
nations we don’t have diplomatic relations with, which we
consider “rogue” nations—and government leaders are not involved
in that.
Could that be going on between aliens and humans, here on Earth?
I suppose so.
And I’m not saying—this is just an analogy—I’m not drawing a
parallel saying that the aliens are here doing humanitarian
work, or anything like that. I’m just saying that there are
instances where contact between people from different societies,
contact is made. But, it’s done NOT on an official level.
But, to establish actual diplomatic relations, you have to
involve the government. I don’t see any other way.
Martin: When I first read your description of the Verdants, the
description almost was like what are called
the little “Greys”.
You were describing them as 5 feet tall, large eyes, and that
sort of thing. Then, later, the description was more like
“normal people”. Did you describe them as more “normal looking”
on the ship?
Krapf: Oh, no, no, no. As a matter of fact, they ARE similar to
the Greys.
And I never heard that term before, quite frankly, until after
my experience. I had seen the caricatures, everybody has seen
the caricatures, on TV, on cereal boxes, in magazines, in
newspapers. You see them as novelty items, you know, holding
candy, and you see them in toy stores, and stuff like that.
So, everybody has seen that caricature of the Grey. I did not
know what they were called. I didn’t know there was a name for
them, quite frankly. I just thought they were “aliens”.
And then I found out that they were called “the Greys”.
Well, the creatures that I met were quite similar, based upon
the caricatures, and the descriptions. I can’t say, because I’ve
never seen, as far as I know—I don’t know that I’ve ever seen a
Grey. But these differed in that their eyes were more
proportional to their face, the same as a human eye is
proportional to the human face.
So the eyes were not big “bug eyes”; they were smaller. As I
say, in about the same proportion as on the human face, although
they had a slight slant to them, and a little bit narrower. That
was the major difference that I noticed.
I don’t know anything about the Greys. All I know is that they
didn’t call themselves Greys. As a matter of fact, they didn’t
call themselves Verdants. I called them Verdants.
Martin: Was there a hierarchy that you were aware of? Like, was
there a captain of the ship?
Krapf: I really don’t know.
Martin: You were not exposed to quite that level?
Krapf: No. Remember, there are 30-some thousand people on this
ship. And each of them, being highly intelligent, I would
imagine that any one of them aboard could assume any
responsibility.
Martin: Now, you mention that the Verdants’ maximum life-span is
20,000 years?
Krapf: That’s Earth years.
Martin: Is your perception that the Verdants are biological,
souled creatures?
Or are they
synthetic beings?
Do they have DNA of their own type?
Any sense of that? Are they manufactured beings?
Krapf: I never thought about it. They talk about their marriage,
traditions, about their children, about their reproduction. I
touch them. They were warm-blooded. I have no reason to believe
that they are clones.
But then again, I don’t know. They never told me they were.
Martin: There were variations, physically, as you looked at
them? They did not all look alike?
Krapf: They do all look alike, until you get to know them.
But, actually now, remember, living 20,000 years is not really
unreasonable, when you think about it. In the last century,
during the 1900s, we practically doubled the lifespan of people
in this country. That’s called life extension. That’s quite a
step.
Well, they said that, a long time ago, they lived a normal
lifespan of one or two generations, as a lot of animals do. And
then gradually, as they evolved, they were able to get into life
extension. They were able to extend that by a few years, and
then a few decades, and then pretty soon a few centuries, and
then farther and farther.
Who knows, if we keep going at our rate, I imagine within 20,000
years WE will have a 20,000-year lifespan. But that’s just,
again, speculation on my part.
But that’s not an amazing figure. That’s not unreasonable
because, as I say, we’ve doubled the lifespan in one century.
Now, with the mapping of the human genome, and they get into
genetic engineering and stuff like that, growing new body parts,
that might not even be necessary, after a while. You won’t need
a new one, the old one will do just fine.
That really does not strike me as amazing, anymore; at first it
did, at first it stunned me. That really doesn’t strike me as
amazing, anymore, because we have even, in our own primitive
society, we have made great strides in extending life.
Martin: Well, and you mentioned Gina could only, their bodies
could only digest plant matter.
Krapf: Yes, right.
Martin: Not meat eaters.
Krapf: Yes, their bodies are adapted to eating plant food. There
are carnivores and there are herbivores, and there are
omnivores. They happen to be herbivores.
Martin: When you were onboard and there were other humans
onboard, did you enter into dialogues with them?
How much did you bring back, in terms of memory of your
encounters onboard, in terms of other species contact?
Were there other entities, other than the Verdants, onboard
these ships?
Krapf: I didn’t see any, but I did in my conversations—it wasn’t
in the book. There’s a lot that isn’t in the book.
Martin: I figured that.
Krapf: In conversations I did get the impression that some of
the species in the Intergalactic Federation of Sovereign Planets
have not as yet perfected what I call the “flicker drive”, which
allows the Verdants to get around the Universe in very, very
quick time.
So, since they don’t have the flicker drive and can’t get around
that fast, I get the impression that there’s cooperation, and
different species who haven’t perfected this, yet, do go along
on some of these journeys.
Martin: So they can hitch a ride?
Krapf: As visitors, as guests. Just as we are cooperating with
other countries in putting some of their astronauts on some of
our Shuttle flights.
Martin: It makes sense.
Krapf: Sure it does.
Martin: They’re all members of the Federation; obviously they’re
non-violent and they meet the criteria.
Krapf: They seem all to be very, very individualistic though.
I’ll tell you, because I’m thinking, well, how come other
species don’t have the flicker drive if one species has it?
And, basically, as I say, there’s a cosmic dynamism, a
Darwinism. I think each species develops on its own. There’s
some sharing of technology. And there’s a lot of cooperation, I
guess, but it’s a loose Federation.
If one species is destined to develop the flicker drive, then it
develops it. If it isn’t, then it doesn’t get it from anybody
else. That’s the impression I get, which is kind of strange.
Martin: Were there any discussions that you had onboard the ship
that were, basically, philosophical discussions about where our
planet is going, where we’re headed?
Krapf: Our planet?
Martin: Yes.
Krapf: No, no. There were some philosophical discussions. We
talked about religion a bit.
Martin: Let’s talk about that.
Krapf: All of the information that they wanted me to put in the
White Paper IS in the book. That information was given to me in
formal sessions.
Now, I did pick-up some information in informal sessions;
informal in discussions with Gus, and in discussions with a
small group that I met with on my second visit; and in
discussions with Gina, just chatting, and letting my curiosity
run rampant.
And I asked some questions, and they were pretty open with me.
I didn’t get any other information in the formal sessions,
because in the formal sessions the focus was very, very narrow.
They wanted to tell me WHO they are, WHERE they come from, WHAT
they’re doing here, HOW LONG they’ve been here.
They told a little bit about the name of their planet.
And, basically, they wanted me to just give people a general
idea, in general detail, what is going on as efforts go forward
to establish diplomatic relations. And if diplomatic relations
are ever established, then that information is going to start
coming out all over the world by all of these ambassadors.
And there will be SO MUCH information coming out from each
individual person—who will be in engineering, in medicine, in
the military, in education, and things like that—there will be
so much information coming out that it will amount to
INFORMATION OVERLOAD.
So each of these bits of information would be like the pieces of
a million-piece jigsaw puzzle. Each individual piece might have
some very interesting shape, and form, and color, and things
like that, but it would basically be meaningless without seeing
how it fits into the total picture.
So I saw my job as writing, or drawing, a very crude picture of
what the final picture on the box of the jigsaw puzzle is going
to look like when all these pieces fall into place.
Martin: Let’s get back to the religious discussions.
Krapf: They said that they have a “fact-based” religion. They
have evidence. They believe in a Supreme Being. They believe in
an immortal soul.
This came as a great surprise to me, as an atheist. I could
never make that leap of faith that’s required of Earth-based
religions, simply because, as far as I am aware—and I don’t have
any religious background or training—as far as I know,
Earth
religions are all “faith-based”; that is, there is true belief
in something.
Now, to me, my definition of faith, and other people may
disagree, is that faith is belief in something for which there
is no evidence or which can’t be proven. That’s my definition.
Other people may have other definitions, and they may disagree
with that. I never could make that leap of faith.
But now I would be more able to accept their religion, because
they say it’s “fact-based”. And, if they’re not lying to me—and
I don’t think they are, because they struck me as very honest
and straightforward and very moral creatures—so, if they have
evidence and fact, then I could more easily embrace their
religion than I could an Earth religion, because they would have
evidence and facts.
Martin: Now, they believe in a Supreme Being. Did they ever say
that they come as representatives?
Krapf: No, no, not as representatives, at all.
Martin: They never spoke in those terms?
Krapf: No. They say that they have evidence, and they know for a
fact that there is a God, and that we have immortal souls.
Again, coming from where I come from, that’s hard for me to
accept.
Martin: Was it in your book or somewhere else that I read that
they know where Heaven is?
Krapf: Yes, it’s in the first book, The Contact Has Begun. I
found that out on my first visit to the ship in June 1997.
[Quoting from The Contact Has Begun:]
“You believe in God?” I
stammered. “In an immortal soul?”
Gina’s face became a canvas of expression. I had broken
through. It took a practiced eye, and I would not have seen
it only hours before, but I could not read the very, very
subtle musculature that revealed her emotions.
“Believe?” she asked in wonder. “We don’t just believe. We
know. Our scientists proved the existence of the soul
millennia ago. Our ships have discovered the precise
location of Heaven in the Universe. We have been there.”
[End quoting]
Martin: That’s pretty amazing information.
Krapf: Yes, but again, it was given to me informally. It was not
given to me in a formal session, and therefore I was not
expected to include it.
But when I was writing the book, I hesitated about putting it in
there, because it’s very controversial. People take their
religions very seriously. It can stir up great passions.
And I thought, I don’t need any problems here. The book was
going to be controversial enough the way it was. But I included
it anyway, because it did happen, and it will spice up the book
a little bit, because just writing a White Paper, it’s just
filled with facts, and it’s very formal, and appeals to scholars
and academics and doesn’t get very wide readership.
I wanted to tell the whole story, so I thought, I’m going to
include the informal sessions, as well. There was no objection.
They didn’t “forbid” me from doing so. We didn’t even discuss
it, quite frankly. I just thought, as long as I’m writing this,
I’m going to include it. And that includes the sexual incident,
as well.
Martin: I was going to ask you about that. Obviously, Gina, I
would imagine, appeared in a more human shape than in a little
Grey shape, or am I wrong?
Krapf: Are you talking about up on the ship?
Martin: Yes.
Krapf: No, she appeared the same as all the others. They are
“humanoid”, by the way.
Martin: But down here she took on a different form?
Krapf: She was transformed, yes.
Martin: Was that a holographic projection, or was that an
actual?
Krapf: I don’t think so, and I’ll tell you why. We went out into
public. She got in a car, we went out into public, we passed
people in stores. I don’t see how they could do that as a
holographic projection.
Martin: Did she actually have the ability to shape-shift?
Krapf: I don’t know that they call it shape-shifting, or if that
is what it was, but they told me previously that they know how
to do “genetic transformations”.
I don’t know what shape-shifting really entails. The way I
understand it, they can do genetic transformations as easily as
a human can put on make-up.
Martin: I don’t want to concentrate on this, but when you had
“the encounter” with her, which you reluctantly added in the
book, the sexual encounter, was she appearing as a Grey at that
point?
Krapf: Not a Grey, she’s a Verdant, she’s Verdant, she’s not a
Grey.
Yes, she was in her “natural” state.
But they are humanoid, and their bodies are very similar to
ours. They’re just smaller, more slightly built.
Martin: I see. I want to talk to you about two different things
here.
Let’s talk about the “round-table” discussions that you had
“upstairs”. Obviously there were some really broad and harsh, I
don’t want to call them judgments, of Earthlings, humans, but
there were some real painstaking evaluations. I guess I’ll
phrase it that way, which were taking place.
How did you feel being involved in discussions about humans,
from that vantage point of being on a spaceship?
Krapf: Ok, you’re going to have to tell me what you’re referring
to. Are you talking about the briefing I got, right before I
left, on my second visit, in January 2000, as detailed in The
Challenge Of Contact? Is that what you’re talking about?
Martin: I’m talking about Martin, and some of the others. How
did that feel? What was that like to be involved in that kind of
a discussion?
Krapf: Well, I was really not involved in those discussions.
If you remember, I say in the book that I was excluded from all
of those sessions, and all that I got was a “briefing” at the
end.
And then, they told me, basically, that they were discussing
very, very important, critical issues related to trying to
establish the diplomatic relations. They were kicking this
around.
There was some concern that permeated to the highest levels,
they said. And when they talked about the highest levels, they
were talking about the Verdants, to the High Command. There was
some concern about the way things are going here on Earth, and
so they wanted to get together and brainstorm.
And they got these ambassadors together who represented the
other ambassadors, and they kicked things around, and what the
problems were, and how are they going to deal with them, and
whether or not this will affect the timetable.
Martin: Were you there for that?
Krapf: No, I got a “briefing” on this. I was excluded from those
meetings, because I was told that I really wouldn’t be able to
understand them.
Martin: I remember reading that they told you it was out of your
depth, or whatever.
Krapf: I got a little testy about that.
Martin: What do you mean?
Krapf: Basically they were saying I wasn’t smart enough.
And they’re probably right. I don’t have the education that I’m
sure most of these ambassadors have.
And, especially, these high-level people, they’re leaders in
their fields.
Martin: Are we talking about Earthlings?
Krapf: We’re talking the Earthlings.
Martin: So these are other representatives, from planet Earth.
Krapf: Right. There are 11 of them, in human form. Actually,
there are 12 of them—11 humans, and one other person who
“appeared” human.
Martin: But they are not coming forward, publicly?
Krapf: No, they haven’t identified themselves.
I am the only one, quite frankly, who has gone public.
And, quite frankly, if you are a leader in your field, it takes
an awful lot of courage to come forward, because you’re going to
take a lot of ridicule, and derision, and everything else.
And your colleagues are going to look at you askance, and it
could affect your personal life, your social life, your home
life, your career, your profession. That takes an awful lot of
courage for someone who is still involved in his career.
Now I, myself, am no longer involved in a career, so I didn’t
have that concern.
But no, I’m the only one who has gone public. And this is what
was causing me a lot of stress. I started worrying about what
happens. When are these people going to start coming out? When
am I going to start getting some backup on this?
When they finally announced their decision that the contact
would go ahead, I was overjoyed because I knew that next year
sometime I was going to start getting some backup. And I was
going to be vindicated, in the eyes of my critics, who have been
saying that this is all balderdash.
So, I was going to have the final say.
In August I was able to release the information: “Hey, they are
on their way! They are coming! The contact is on!” I couldn’t
wait until next year.
And then, wouldn’t you know it, 19 days after I release that
information,
the “terrorist” attacks took place. And that dashed
that.
And I also had a new book coming out, and the fact that the
contact was going to take place couldn’t help but help the book,
spread the word, and everything else.
Then the attacks took place and it could scuttle the veracity of
the book.
[Editor’s note:
Could this extraterrestrial contact project be yet another
reason for the misfit elite controllers proceeding with their
nasty shenanigans on 9/11/01 and following? After all, it
provides a sizeable, ongoing public distraction from many other
things—both good and bad— that are occurring right now.]
Martin: You had a pretty serious “trust no-one” warning. Did you
take that to heart?
Did that frighten you?
And have there been any incidents, recently, that have caused
you concern? Probably less concern, now that this recent series
of events have happened.
Have you been followed or watched or anything like that?
Krapf: Well, you know what? If these guys are good at their job,
I wouldn’t know it, would I?
So, just because I say “No, I haven’t been followed or watched”
doesn’t mean it’s the facts of the matter. It just means that
the other people who are doing the following and watching are
very good at what they’re doing.
So, I don’t know.
But yes, when the first crazy phone calls came in, and there
were a couple, when the first emails of warning came in, I
thought “My God, what have I gotten into here?”
But, eventually, I came to be able to live with them. It doesn’t
bother me. I probably walk around with a little more heightened
interest in what’s going on around me, but I haven’t become
paranoid and let it control my life.
Martin: Good. You were just at the Bay Area UFO Conference. Did
you view a conference like that through different eyes, now that
you’ve had this experience?
Krapf: Oh, absolutely!
This wasn’t my first one. I’ve been at two of the Laughlin
conferences, and I’ve been to several MUFON meetings. I’ve
spoken before the San Diego UFO Society. And so, I’ve been
around a little bit.
Sure, I view it differently than I would have when I was just a
newspaperman who didn’t believe in this sort of thing, when I
thought this was a convention of, well, let’s call them
“oddballs”.
I was absolutely stunned when I actually got into the community
and found out that these are very ordinary, traditional people,
who simply have an interest in this sort of thing. Many of them
have advanced degrees, PhDs. I’ve heard from medical doctors.
I’ve heard from an emergency room physician. Now, he has gone
public, and he talks about this, and he attends the conventions.
And he talks about it with his colleagues. When he goes to AMA
meetings, he’ll set-up a booth to get other doctors interested.
He said, basically, they ignore him.
I said,
“How can you do that in your
profession? Doesn’t that affect your professional life?”
He said,
“No. I’m an emergency room
physician, and as long as I keep saving people’s lives,
that’s what they’re paying me for. And so, they accept it.”
I’ve heard from professors,
physicists, engineers, doctors, lawyers, you name it. They come
from every background and they attend these conferences.
I was very pleasantly surprised, very pleasantly surprised to
find out it wasn’t a bunch of nuts running around, with
spring-loaded antennae hats, and things like that.
These are very normal people, very normal. It’s surprising,
surprising.
That’s a story that should get out to the mainstream press.
They’re not going to do it.
Martin: Let’s talk about
terra-forming. The Verdants, I
understand, are familiar with terra-forming planets. Did they
talk to you about the technology behind that? Or how they go
about it?
Krapf: No, that really, again, was not my purpose for being
there. That was not the focus of our discussions. The focus of
our discussions was to do my job.
The little information that I did pick-up, they simply told me
that they are able to go in and terra-form. And take
inhospitable planets, uninhabitable planets, and reshape the
topography and do whatever needs to be done, I guess, to create
your oceans, and things of that nature—release the water onto
the surface, if it’s tied-up in rocks, below the surface, or
whatever, or in the atmosphere.
But no, we didn’t get into it at all. It was just mentioned
casually and in informal discussions. I don’t know that it was
ever brought up at the formal sessions. It might have been, but
probably only in passing.
Martin: Were there any discussions of consequence in the formal
sessions that you did NOT include in the book, that you would
like to talk about?
Krapf: I can’t think of anything offhand. I think that
everything that was said in the formal sessions, I reported.
Martin: Just, generally, what would you say to our readers—I’m
sure many of whom believe in this type of contact? What would
you say to them to prevent them from possibly being discouraged
by the earlier information?
Krapf: You mean the hiatus?
Martin: Yes.
Krapf: Boy. I’m trying to be as upbeat as possible about it, but
quite frankly, I do get fits of melancholy when I think about
it, an opportunity like this. I hope it doesn’t slip away.
But, an upbeat statement? The important thing is to, I guess,
stay active. Keep the faith. [Laughter] It’s funny for me to be
talking about faith.
Keep the faith, and keep doing what you’re doing. Remain active,
try to get the word spread, because eventually, ultimately, we
have to reach the mainstream population. And the way to do that
is through the mainstream media. And we haven’t been able to do
that yet.
You know, 10-20 years ago, nobody talked about this, I mean,
really substantial people. At least I don’t think many of them
did.
Now I’m surprised by the number of very important people,
high-profile people, who are not afraid to come out and express
their beliefs. You’ve got people like Daniel Sheehan, and a lot
of other people—doctors, and people like that, who I was telling
you about—who are not afraid to take a position these days.
That’s some progress.
But we still have to reach the mainstream, and get rid of the
stereotype that they have, that we’re just a bunch of whackos.
And you do that through the mainstream press.
So people have to stay involved, and as more and more
substantial people start coming out, people with credibility and
believability, and who have influence over vast segments of the
population, why, then the battle will be won, once they realize.
Martin: Of course, our readers are well aware, from previous
stories we’ve done—and this will go, probably, contrary to your
beliefs—that the mainstream press is CONTROLLED by higher forces
of not well-meaning people, who we would call
the Elite
Controllers, the ones who are responsible for a large amount of
evil on the planet.
Krapf: Segments of the press, I think, yes. I would
agree with that, segments of it.
Martin: At the highest levels.
Krapf: But you’re going to have to make a very, very
strong argument to me, because I’m going to have to really,
then, do A LOT of rethinking. Not that I haven’t done a lot of
rethinking, already. But that’s going to be a hard-sell, to me.
But segments of the press, I agree, there are some evil people.
I won’t mention any names.
Martin: We’re basically of the view, here at The SPECTRUM, as a
so-called “alternative” press, that the hope lies with the
alternative press, because that is the only truly free press
that still exists in this country.
All other press IS controlled at a higher, corporate level, and
I would challenge you, as a former journalist for the L.A.
Times, you certainly did not have freedom to write what you
wanted, across the board, without it being very carefully
scrutinized.
Krapf: Well, I was not a writer at the time. I was a simple copy
editor.
Martin: But you’re familiar with the kind of thing I’m
talking about.
Krapf: Yes, I am. And, of course, stories are
assigned by editors. But
there are beat reporters who go out and cover their beats, and
they do stories independently. They do have to go through an
editor. And stories are killed, for various reasons.
I, myself, I have never really experienced, or been aware of, a
conspiracy of any sort to suppress any news, except now, in this
area here [meaning UFOs]; but I don’t know that it comes from
orders “on high” that the UFO community is not covered. I think
it’s just individual choices, by the working news people, who
simply are not “believers”. And if they’re not believers, it’s
difficult for them to go out and do a story that is designed to
educate and inform, rather than entertain.
Now, you will see occasional stories about alien abductions and
UFOs, but if you look at them very carefully, you’ll realize
that the tone of the story is not one of education, not
information to inform and to educate, but simply to “titillate”.
But I think that’s an individual decision, made by the working
news people, who by-in-large do not believe in this sort of
thing.
But I don’t know. And I’m not saying you’re wrong. I could be
absolutely wrong, and you could be absolutely right.
Martin: I’m not trying to upset you or anything.
Krapf: No, no,
no. I, myself, have not seen any evidence of any high-level
conspiracy.
I do know that there are some segments of the media, both
broadcast and print, mainstream, there are segments of it that
are very, very biased, absolutely, no doubt about it.
Martin: I guess what I’m really trying to say is, if we look to
the mainstream press, the New York Times, the Wall Street
Journal, etc., to report stories like The Challenge Of
Contact, with all of its implications, I think hell will freeze
first.
Krapf: I tend to agree with you.
Martin: I hate to say that. It’s unfortunate. It’s a sad state
of affairs, but it is, basically, facing reality. That is just
the way of things.
Krapf: I think it’s a blind spot. I’m not sure how much of a
conspiracy is involved, in terms of trying to suppress anything
in this area.
But corporations do
control most of the media. And corporations
do have an agenda. And that agenda is self-interest.
Now, there is a higher calling in the newspaper business to
serve the public good; no doubt about it. And I think the
working news people try to fulfill those obligations, to serve
the public good, to inform and to educate.
But, again, in this area here, they don’t take it seriously and
I think it’s simply a blind spot on their part. Now, I could be
wrong.
There is no doubt that the alternative press is the one that is
carrying this story, and dealing with this subject. And it’s not
a mainstream story. There’s no doubt about that.
I still believe that it’s necessary, in order for this to
succeed, it’s necessary to reach the mainstream. And to reach
the mainstream, you have to have the mainstream media.
Now, if the mainstream media do not do it, but the mainstream
people are reached by the alternative press, then the
alternative press is no longer the alternative press but the
mainstream.
Martin: Occasionally we have discussions around here about what
it would take to increase public awareness about this kind of
possibility. We never talk in terms of landing on the White
House lawn, because that is a ridiculous scenario that’s been
used far too often.
But the discussion has come up, from time to time, that perhaps
there should be a mass fly-by.
Well, even a mass fly-by, on some level, is representative of
force, once again. Although part of me thinks that would be
great, to see a whole bunch of ships fill the sky.
It’s just undeniable. Every eye would see then. Every person
would be aware.
Krapf: I think you would have absolute world-wide panic.
Martin: It would be panic, and that, again, is contrary to the
“prime directive”.
So, I don’t know what the answer is. There are no simple answers
to this.
Krapf: The people would not know what the motivation for this
was. And so they would see it as “doomsday”.
Martin: Like Orson Welles’ infamous 1938 Halloween radio
broadcast of H.G. Wells’ The War Of The Worlds.
Krapf: Oh, yeah. This would be terribly frightening. You’d fill
the asylums in no time. People would be going crazy with
something like this happening.
This would be the end of the world. That’s not the way you do
it.
The way you do it is, you have their people contact our people,
and you then build from there; and continue the contact, and
keep building and building, until you finally reach a formal
agreement.
But one of the things that the alternative press can do is
continue to publicize those very high profile individuals who
are involved, because this is a moderating influence upon the
population.
[Editor’s note: We
agree. And that is one of the important reasons for this feature
story. Another is because, as I (E.Y.) said early in the
front-page story last month, choices and conditions being made
right now on planet Earth may well accelerate the timeframe for
certain kinds of extraterrestrial interactions by, at least,
those who have the responsibility for babysitting our planetary
societies. You can be sure the depraved and desperate choices
made recently by the elite misfits—including such events as what
happened on 9/11/01—are being turned into learning/awakening
opportunities for all who are honestly seeking The Truth.
Several of the spiritual messages, elsewhere in this issue of
The SPECTRUM, address this matter as only our Higher Teachers
can do so well.]
You’re not talking about radicals, and anonymous Montana
ranchers; you’re talking about people who are leaders in their
field, people who have great credibility, people who are
respected.
This has to have an effect upon their peers. It has to have an
effect upon those segments of the population who respect either
their positions, or their personal reputations, their names.
So that’s the important thing, to keep these high-profile people
in the news, and to try to encourage other high profile people
to get involved, too.
Martin: Part of the challenge of contact, there are many people
over the years who have said that people like
Gene Roddenberry
were guided and influenced from higher dimensions to write
stories, like Star Trek, to bring into mass consciousness the
“possibility” of these other things, and GRADUALLY bring the
society up in awareness, through fiction, through what would
SEEM to be fiction, and allow an acceptance of the possibility
of a Universe teeming with life.
And, I think, that is, in fact, what has been taking place.
And even with shows as wild as The X-Files, and movies like
CONTACT, and other things along that line in the film industry,
and in television, there is a “bringing-up”, if you will, of the
consciousness to allow for an openness as to possibilities.
Does that make sense?
Krapf: It makes absolute sense. It sounds like a really good
plan, yeah.
Now, I’ve heard the stories about Gene Roddenberry and
everything, but I, of course, have no information or knowledge
myself about it. But that sounds like a good plan to me.
Martin: So it seems like that is, more or less, what is taking
place; not the old, physical representation of what would be
perceived as force, but rather a very subtle, gradual, long-term
EDUCATIONAL process.
Krapf: In that way you don’t shock the nervous system of people.
You get them gradually used to it, over a period of time.
Just like when I broke the news to my wife. I didn’t tell her
right off.
Martin: “Hey, honey, I was just on a spaceship.”
Krapf: I told her over a period of three or four days.
I started out with:
“I had the strangest dream.”
And then we talked about it.
And then, as we were watching something on, say, the Discovery
channel about UFOs, finally I got around to saying:
“You know,
there may be something to this after all.”
Now, this was a radical change for me. I was an absolute
skeptic, before.
But to soften my position, I said:
“There might be something to
this after all.”
And then I said:
“You know what? I think my dream was really
more than just a dream.”
And then, finally, I told her:
“You know what? It happened.”
So, I softened her up. I didn’t just shock her system.
That’s exactly what you’re talking about there, getting people
used to the possibility and the idea of it.
Martin: Well, I’m encouraged that it’s a hiatus. A hiatus I can
live with. Everybody needs a sabbatical, even the guys watching
us for a thousand years.
It’s not “We’re leaving!”
“We’re leaving” would be extremely discouraging.
Krapf: I’ll tell you, though, my personal opinion, if the
nuclear exchanges start, I think they’re out of here. I think
that’s the end of it.
Of course, WE’RE out of here, too.
That’s life in the Universe. Move on to the next venue.
Martin: There is no death. The soul is eternal.
Krapf: That’s what they say.
Martin: I imagine, now, you probably believe that idea, too. I
don’t know if you do.
Krapf: I’m still dealing with it.
Again, I can more easily embrace their belief than I can ours.
But, again, I’m not sure where I am. I’m not sure I’ve been
totally convinced. I guess I have to overcome so many things to
finally accept that.
Martin: There’s a time for every season. Everything in its
proper time.
Krapf: That’s right.
Martin: I wish you all the best! And thank you for taking the
time to speak with me and, in turn, share your thoughts with our
readers.
Krapf: You’re welcome.