Al Bielek, noted lecturer on the famous "Philadelphia Experiment" and the
time travel/mind control experiments of the "Montauk Project," recently
spoke with The Scribe interview team in Yelm.
Bielek gave an update on the current use of mind control and psychic
warfare, and also offered a more detailed account of his experience in the
Montauk Project. Montauk, also known as the Phoenix Project, used
his brother Duncan Cameron, to explore the underground cities of Mars.
SS: Sovereign Scribe
- AB: Al Bielek
SS: Regarding your experience on Mars you walked through the time tunnel,
you take a step and youíre on Mars: What did you see?
AB: Well I was not on the surface of
Mars. We were in the underground. The
story goes back to the
Alternative 3 book, the TV production in England
outlining the fact that we have Mars bases, one or more, provided by a joint
operation with the US. government. I do not know if the Russians are in on
it - and aliens. They are on the surface bases. Itís a World Government
operation really, thatís not strictly the United States government.
After they were on the surface which
was about 1969, they found that there
where entrances to the underground sealed and they knew there was something
down there. The rumors were that there was probably artifacts from an
ancient civilization buried underground because there were a lot of remains
above ground, ruined cities that have been there by NASAís estimates maybe
300,000 years, 250,000 years. But they found the entrances all blocked, all
scaled off to any underground areas. So the word went back through
communications (in the late 70ís) to whomever back to the Montauk and
Phoenix project, "Can you do anything about this for us? We canít get into
the underground of Mars." They said, "Yes, I think we can. Give us some
coordinates on the surface of the planet. Weíll have to run astronomical
computation." Which they did and plugged these all into the computer. They
wanted two people to go and it happened to be Duncan and myself.
SS: Why two?
AB: To corroborate what the other one saw and also in case there was any
problems in the underground. They didnít really know what was down there.
So they sent us and we went up there in the underground. [Using the
Time-Space "Tunnel" device, developed as a result of the
Experiment. (See Scribe issues 9,13 and 14.)] There was a problem with
light. We had to take lighting with us at the time. Later on, if I remember,
we found some of their light sources and turned those on. We found
eventually that the last remnants of the Martians, if you wish to call them
that, died in the underground between 10 and 20,000 years ago by estimate,
and they left everything they had of their civilization underground. We
found enormous amounts of statuary which appeared to be religious.
SS: What did they look like? How big were they?
AB: Typically 6,7,8 foot tall, stone, gems embedded in them and so forth.
SS. These were of human-like people?
AB: Yes. They were quite well preserved. Then we found archives. We found a
lot of scientific equipment. We found electronic equipment down there; tons
and tons of stuff. And the rumor was also later that ... I didnít recall
until Duncan reminded me of it about a week ago. he said, "Donít forget the
17,000 metric tons of Martian gold they took out. According to his
recollection of it, it was very strange gold. It was 5 times denser than
ours. It was worth an unbelievable fortune. Where it went we have no idea,
but it was returned to Montauk and from there it went somewhere. There were
several authorized trips. And Duncan and I got the bright idea since
everything was in the computer letís take a trip or two on our own and do
our own exploring. So we did. After the second one it was found out and we
were stopped. That was when he got into the archives and found enormous
records of the civilization which was buried down there.
SS: What did you find out?
AB: He as the one that read them. I couldnít read them.
SS. He didnít tell you?
AB: No. Well he did at the time but I canít remember any of it now. Itís a
very strange memory. On again, off again, and that part of it was never made
clear to me as to what he really found. Right after that we were removed.
But I do remember some of the other installations we saw down there. They
had very odd, large generators of some type. If you did not see it, I
recommend that you go see the movie Total Recall. In fact it was seeing that
movie that reminded me of the fact that I had been there. Not the colonies
but the shots of the underground where they showed these large, round
canisters where the director said these were probably for oxygen generation.
Iím not quite sure but we think so. I looked at them and said, "Theyíre not
round. Theyíre hexagonal." And I asked myself, "how the hell did I know
that?" So that was our view of Mars from the underground. We didnít see
hardly a thing of it from the surface.
SS: Did you see ice under the surface like in
AB: Ice? No.
SS: If I remember the Movie, thatís what they melted a lot of ice to create
AB: It was not ice under there. There were oxygen generators and they also
had some storage. There was a generating system which apparently the
ancients had left. I donít really know much about it. But it was activated
before they moved the surface colonies in. They also melted down the polar
caps. The rumors are that they used a hydrogen bomb or two for that. I donít
know if thatís true. But they did melt down a lot of the polar ice so they
would have some water. Itís still sparse but they have it. The atmosphere is
thin but they have atmosphere. And the temperature is warm enough. In the
equatorial region they have no problem surviving. It runs about 50o and of
course the astronomers have known this for about 50 years or more. Itís
quite livable in terms of temperature.
SS: The lighting that you mentioned. What was that like?
AB: Unknown form of illumination, after we found out how to turn it on. Some
of the power generators are still working. After we turned on the
underground lighting we had no lack of light. Otherwise we had to carry our
own and portable lighting was not all that effective because we were dealing
with larger underground chambers, several hundred feet across high ceiling
and portable lights are not very good for a large chamber like that.
Eventually we found where they had their own lighting. It was very bright.
SS: Have you any information on the face on Mars?
AB: Not that I remember in the underground. Thereís more than one face on
Mars, by the way. They found several. But I remember the NASA announcements
some years ago, about 2 years ago that theyíre receiving a low frequency
radio transmission from Mars. It was about 50 kilohertz, if I remember
correctly. Quite a low level indicating the equipment or whatever it was
that was generating the RF signal, and it was coded, was quite old and
probably nearly worn out, so they were amazed there was anything still
coming out of it but it was enough of a signal that they could pick it up
and put it through the computer and transcribe it. It was a warning.
warning message to humans not to repeat the mistakes they made.
SS: Do you have any feelings about being on Mars? What were your general
AB: We were digging in there remains of an old civilization that preceded
ours and it felt very peculiar. To look at what was left at what was once a
great civilization and realize that they literally died there and left
everything behind and that eventually the thing shutdown. It was in the
underground deliberately apparently was survival because the circle cities
had long since been destroyed and they lived down there and stayed there.
From what I understand of it, a number of the Martians survived whatever the
attack was on the surface eventually took off for Earth and others decided
to stay behind on Mars in the underground. And quite literally their progeny
eventually died out and the whole race that was left behind on Mars died
out. Itís rather a strange feeling to realize that the remnants of a race
died out in the underground totally. They just left all their hardware
SS: In Rod Steigerís book he spoke of March 18th, 1990, as being important
dates in the history of the PSI-Corps. Thatís during those dates their
equipment was zapped and all the psychics resigned March 20th. Could you
explain all this?
AB: Well, basically what had happened was a very strange story. In January
1990 Psi-Corps received some new hardware because NSA has been working on
this for years; psionic-type hardware that boosts the mind and its
capabilities of people who already have a great deal of capability it
becomes quite formidable.
They found themselves, after that infusion of new equipment, after learning
how to use it, with the capability of locating a picture buried in someoneís
files anywhere or tracking a missing file or missing information that they
had instructions to recover or locate. They didnít do the recovery they
merely located it. And how we found out about this was a very interesting
Back in November of 1989, Duncan had told me, he said that I would have the
proof of the Philadelphia Experiment in my hands during March of 1990. Well
it seems like during that weekend, that particular Sunday, preceding the
walk out, I was in Phoenix. I was out for lunch that Sunday and a phone
message was waiting for me that Preston had called and he was in a panic.
When I finally got him on the phone it was already too late. But he told me
that a person had visited him.
You see his father had been a senior scientist in the Navy working on the
Philadelphia project. And that before the scientist died he told his son
what had happened; that he had certain files and that he was turning them
over to his son but he advised his son not to ever tell anyone about it. So
this guy, unidentified to me never fold anyone about what he had.
One week prior to the visitation with
Preston he gets a knock on his door.
Government agents. "We want to search your house." "Well what for?" "Get out
of our way." And they start tearing his house apart. He knew what they were
looking for. He didnít have it there, but he said, "I donít know what youíre
looking for." And they didnít find it. It took several days. And he shook
them. And he went and got his stash of files which contained two roles of
film of Rainbow 3 and Rainbow 4 which were the
two Eldridge tests plus a
stack of papers, still highly classified, apparently, from what Preston
said, because they wound up in Prestonís hands.
So he started calling his friends to see who could take cafe of this and
take it off of his hands because the government agents were right behind him
about two hours right behind him trailing him. None of his friends would
touch it, those that he got through to. And he finally got to the end of a
long list of people and Preston Nichols was at the bottom of the list. He
called Preston and he was home. He said, "Iím coming over to give you
something." "Well whatís this all about?" "Iíll be there at such and such a
He goes over and hands him the file and the film and tells him the story
about his father and the government agents and so forth. Preston says, "Well
what am I going to do with it?" He says, "I donít know. Itís your problem
now. The government agents are about two hours behind me." He takes Preston
out and shows him his car with bullet holes in the door and he says, "Iím
getting out of here." And he left.
Preston in a panic tried to get a hold of anybody he knew that day,
including myself, I was not reachable. Duncan, previous in that morning, got
wind of something, due to his psychic sensitivity, something very heavy
coming down. lie took off from Prestonís, went home, went into his bedroom,
locked the door and crawled under the bedsheets until about 5:00 that
afternoon. This is a fact. He panicked. He would not even answer the phone.
He shut off his answering machine.
So this comes down. Preston canít get a hold of me. Finally when he did get
through (I called him) he said, "Well I called up NSA and told them I had
some very hot material here that I donít want." They asked " What is it?"
And he told them. They said, "Well we donít want it." He says "Iíve got to
get rid of this stuff itís black card clearance level: So he said, "All right
weíll send some F.B.I. agents to pick it up. So they eventually arrived and
he turned it over the them after verifying that they were F.B.I. He got rid
of the whole business. Then I called after that, and I still havenít
forgiven him for it. But the interesting connection to get back to your
question about the Psi-Corps, is that we finally put together the fact that
with the new equipment they were able to identify a photograph if itís in
somebodyís file and apparently they have standing orders to find any
information whatever dealing with the Philadelphia Experiment and make damn
sure I didnít get it. And they spotted something and found out who this guy
was and they sent out the government agents and this whole story ensued
about this man whoís father was the senior scientist. And we donít know what
happened to it. We never saw it again.
In any case, the next day, from information I had, there was a big rumble in
the Psi-Corps, and they were warned by somebody on the outside who was a
little friendly to us to get the blazes out of there, that all of your
installations are going to be melted down, literally. And they were warned
to get out. All of them walked out except ten who were brand new recruits
who had been told to defend the machines with their lives and they did
literally. They died, the rest walked out, out of the governmentís service
and disappeared. There was a panic meeting with the President...
SS: Who melted the equipment down?
AB: Alien thereís none ... let us put it this way -
SS: Do you know who they are?
AB: Yes, but I will not say.
SS. Are these the same ETís that Preston said melted down the buzzsaw
antenna at McArthur airport around the Thanksgiving weekend last year?
AB: Yes, basically. And they took care of four sites in the US. one at
Meade and there were three other locations. I believe one was Atlanta and
another in the New Orleans area and one somewhere in the West. Everyone of
them walked out and disappeared. The locations were melted down.
President had a panic, practically apoplexy, tried to call back the old
director who was in retirement. He said it was an emergency, we need to talk
with you. So he came down to talk with them. Iíll only give this manís first
name - itís Emil. He was already 90 in age. And they told him the problem.
He said, "Iíll look at it but I wonít give you my answer for about 3 days.
Iíll tell you then whether or not Iíll come back and reorganize this, whole
operation for you."
In the meantime they contacted NASA to try to get
NASA to give up their
psychic agents, not Psi-Corps, who are trained for a different mission and
are not trained in pairs but individually. NASA told them to go shave it and
got away with it. They said, "Weíre not trained to do the work youíre doing.
You canít have our people. "So finally on that following Friday, Emil came
back to the President and said, "My answer is no. Thereís no way Iíll come
back and do anything for you. Youíre in deep trouble as it is and youíre
going to be in a lot deeper trouble in about 30 days." And he packed up and
left. And I presume that that was the last weíve seen of him at least in
But the Psi-Corps remained dissolved until ... they tried to recruit new
people and they did pick up a few but nothing like what they had before
because it takes 4 years now to train them, it used to be 5.
SS. So theyíre building it is back up again.
AB: Theyíve been trying to build it back up. Then before the beginning of
the so-called Mid-East War with Iraq, they made a deal as part of the
situation building up to the declaration of war wherein we got all of the
backing from British European nations with the exception of Germany, they
went to them as part of the deal and asked the British and
Russian Governments, who all had their own Psi-Corps, if they would loan
again numbers to the U.S. Government for their operations. And they did.
They got transfers and built up the whole organization to the original
Now they had a little bit of a shock because the new group tried to bring
somebody back into their group to run the operation, Emil, and from what I
understand, he was spirited out from right out of the midst of them, again
by ETís, and they were told this could never happen under any
circumstances, that they were ultra-secure in their facilities. That shook
them up. They all walked out. They are now at point zero.
SS. So they waked out a second time
AB: Thatís right. Thatís the information I have. And the government is left
holding the bag once more. And as far as Iím concerned they can continue to
hold the bag - empty.
Psi-Corps organization is not vicious, they are not vicious people, theyíre
very well trained, sensitives and psychics who have a mission. The basic
mission has been, in more recent years, not the original one in the first
5-10 years, where they were used for assassination. But they finally drew
the line on this when NSA was formed and they became part of
NSA in 1949-50
because their original genesis was in 1940 under Harry Bennett under the
Roosevelt administration. But they said, "We will not do assassination any
more because you have other organizations and intelligence groups that can
do this much better than we can so we refuse to do it." But everything else
they would still do and that was basically: psychic espionage in this
country, outside this country and anywhere on this planet; obtaining
information about anything that the government wanted to know that was not
obtainable through the normal intelligence channels; or say too many agents
got killed or something; let us say they wanted to look at the inside of
some super secret Russian or Chinese installation or whatever it may be. The
psychics could look inside of it and see what they want. They could read
books off their desks, reports off a desk, filch them out of a file.
SS. They could dematerialize them?
AR: Yes they could. They could start a fire in a filing cabinet a couple
thousand miles away if they wanted to do that or if were so instructed.
SS: They could plant disinformation also?
AB: Theoretically they could. They could transport small objects. They had
their psycho-kinetic ability well trained. It was not that they could move
large objects, they couldnít. But small objects like a piece of paper or a
small package of paper like a report they could handle. They had a lot of
They were also very heavily brainwashed and very heavily let us say,
indoctrinated in the governmentís service and what they were to do and
indoctrinated to the point that they totally accepted the protocols under
which they operated. And this of course meant that they were loyal to the
service, to the government. The only mores and ethics they knew was what the
government told them they had and this was implanted. impregnated,
conditioned into them to the point where thereís hardly an change. Iíve only
known of two people, I will not go into this in detail, who decided to walk
out and succeeded in doing so. But when they surfaced it started the largest
manhunt in the history of this country to find those two and bring them back
into the governmentís service.
Preston saw the police reports, the
F.B.I. file reports because the police
can came into one of the swap meets, drove right up the aisles where thereís
not supposed to be any car, virtually pushed people out of the way, stopped
right at Prestonís exhibit and said, "Youíre friends with ____________."
Preston says "What are you talking about?" "You know what we mean." And
Preston looked down on the police carís front seat and there was the F.B.I.
dossier and the picture of the individual and the names of both of them they
wanted, and if any information is obtained about the whereabouts of these
two, Iíll not give the names, report immediately to the F.B.I. office in
Philadelphia, Pa. They never did catch them. They were much too smart. They
knew what they were doing.
They also stole a few pieces of government hardware in the process including
... I might as well say it... the government has alternate reality
generators, the portable type a person could carry in a small suitcase and
they can ship themselves and that suitcase with them into an alternate
reality and they cannot be traced. They cannot be found.
SS: Kind of park themselves in another...
AB: Park themselves in another universe, so to speak, parallel to our own,
very similar to ours as Iíve gone into in my lectures, the parallel reality
thing. The government has the hardware for this, portable. Theyíve had it
for years. I donít know how long. And they had it and used it to keep out of
sight and they would every so often look in on what was going on and find
out the police were there and theyíd say, "Well, they can stay there, weíll
stay here." The final outcome was these two people whom I knew from years
before under circumstances I wonít go into or it might identify them,
eventually hitched a ride off planet and took a shuttle. There are shuttles
regularly from this planet to Alpha Centauri 4 which by agreement is a safe
haven for people wanted by the U.S. Government. Thereís a treaty. It takes
about 12 hours to get them. Apparently they took all of their family which
meant sisters, brothers, father, mother, whatever, with them. As far as I
know theyíre still there.
SS: Who runs the shuttle?
AB: Presumably the Alpha Centauri Government, but I donít know. But itís on
a regular basis twice a week. The landing point I have no idea where it is.
Of course they guard it secret.
SS: What is their body form like?
AB: Alpha Centauri? Like humans, exactly the same. Thereís a much lower
population on their planet. Theyíre not overpopulated. Theyíre an advanced
civilization, a little ahead of us - not a great deal, but somewhat ahead of
us. They donít like things like government headbashing and that sort of
thing and they way they treat some of the government agents they no longer
have any use for or whatever, if they are approached, and I donít know how
itís done, if they are approached and asked for asylum, if they issue the
card, you just get on the shuttle and thatís it, youíre there. Beyond that I
donít know. I havenít seen them since.
Thatís a very interesting little side issue and our government doesnít like
it particularly but there is sonic kind of a treaty and they honor it.
Apparently there is that type of treaty with other governments elsewhere,
and I gather it is all Earth governments or includes outside governments Iím
not sure. I have the feeling it includes outside governments too. Thereís
regular communication, I donít know if Preston went into this about the
Super Luminary Communication Systems that were developed by
ITT in the
1960ís. Itís another one of those little developments that come out of all
of this business evolving from the Philadelphia Experiment and the spin-offs
from that and research done by ITT because they were involved in the
background of that program to some extent. They were very involved and were
the principle contractor for the Phoenix Project, but they also had a lot of
other little games also. One of them was building a whole new communication
system. This was research based on higher order energies and the effects and
the propagation rates and studied all this and found out. This is all very
interesting. With a sixth order energy we can develop a communication system
with a propagation rate C6, thatís C to the 6th power. They now have one C8,
C to the 8th power.
SS: C being the speed of light?
AB: C is the speed of light, to the 8th power. Thatís so fast they can
literally communicate clear across our galaxy with nothing more than a phase
shifter. There is essentially no delay. With the Cí system there was a delay
so they went to the 8th. 50,000 light-years across our galaxy and they can
do it in a fraction of a second.
So Einstein was wrong in one sense. Nothing can go faster than the speed of
light? It can. Itís long since been done. It was probably done long since he
made the statement. Einstein did relent of some of his statements in earlier
years before he died but it was not publicly stated that he had.
SS: Speaking of
aliens and technology, do you know which aliens
AB: The Pleiadians basically that was one of his principle communication
groups. Also a group called the K group. K stands for
the best literal translation of English. They were sort of light green
skinned humanoid like with no hair. If you put them up in the right garb and
bleached their skin and put an old fashioned wig on them theyíd pass very
readily for an Englishman. Not that Iím trying to cast any kind of
aspersions on English people but they most readily pass for English. And the
dye or powder or whatever they put on their skin didnít last more than two
weeks. Then there were 2 others and I donít know who they were. When you
start calling out into space you donít know who is going to answer. And they
did. Tesla knew 11 or 12 languages and I presume these people communicated
back in English but I donít know that for certain. I wasnít there I only
heard the stories from 2 other researchers who had worked with him before he
died. Iím told of the equipment and the fact that he did communicate on an
almost daily basis with somebody from the outside.
SS: You mentioned
Reichian Programming in your lectures. How would one know
if one was hit by it?
AB: You wouldnít after it was over. They pulled this system on
for certain maybe more than once and we have a friend back east who worked
in a hospital whoís seen the equipment, know what it does and what itís
capable of. Prestonís checked into the records and found that this
particular type of advanced technology, electroshock therapy equipment is
what they officially call it. Itís now very advanced computerized with
floppy disks and very small electrodes instead of the old big patch pads
they used to put on people and tape the down. They now have tiny little
probes 50 millimeters square and they attach them to certain critical
sensitive points on the body, about 8 of them. And thereís a computer
program they now use which will induce the Reichian orgiastic state by
electronics and hold it to that state and in that condition a human mind
from conscious to subconscious is completely aligned and opened.
Consequently you can remove buried information in the subconscious,
reprogram the person, do whatever you want in that sense. And when the
program is over they close it down, restore the person to the so-called
normal state with either blocks on memory of the whole thing happening or a
whole total implant of what went on that day as a substitute to memory or
whatever they want to do. They usually put in a substitute memory. Itís
happened to Duncan once. We had quite a time running that down but we did.
They can do this to anyone they want. They grab them physically and take
them off to one of the hospitals. The law is that any hospital or
institution in the U.S. that accepts federal funding must by law have one of
these machines on their premises and there must be certain personnel, very
limited, trained in its use. Now it can be used for "nominal" electroshock
therapy in the normal mode which doctors use, thought itís much more
sophisticated now and less damaging. Or they can use it for reprogramming,
the same piece of equipment. But to do the reprogramming requires a special
floppy disk, which is kept under lock and key and can only be used by
certain government personnel.
When they do this number of the reprogramming itís done by government
personnel. It is not normally shown [in] their records and there is never a
charge made back to a hospital organization or to a hospitalization fund or
medical fund of any kind, that is paid for 100% by the federal government
and the recordís swept under the rug. They put it once on Duncan and they
tried to do it again.
SS: They physically snatched him?
AB: Oh yes. We had quite a time tracking this down that one Sunday. But they
did do that. Itís based on Reichís principle, his old theories. The original
programming techniques were more physical, but now they can do it
electronically. Itís much clearer, so to speak, much easier to accomplish
and much easier to cover the tracks. And the law says these instruments,
pieces of equipment, shall be made available to non-federally funded
institutions. They recommend that they have them but thereís no requirement.
SS: Before going on, how do you feel about all this? Do you want to get
revenge on these guys? Where do you stand personally on this?
AB: I would love to get back at some of ... Well, where do I stand? Number
one I feel itís long since time that the public knows the facts about how
their government has lied to them practically about everything from politics
to science to cover-up of secret projects and the abductions of People by
the government, Iím not talking about aliens, by the government for
reprogramming - plugging them into special projects against their will. Then
when theyíre done with them they either return them to normal life or deep
sexing them in many cases.
SS: You sound angry. Are you?
AB: Oh yeah. Iím very angry about it because they wrecked my life, they
wrecked Duncanís life, they wrecked the lives of a number of other people
who I knew who were on that project, the original Philadelphia Project. They
didnít wreck so many lives from the Phoenix Project in terms of breaking
family relations and all this sort of thing. But they did eliminate a number
of people who were involved in the Phoenix Project. They were literally
killed, some accidentally, some deliberate and otherwise reprogrammed and
shipped off the God knows where. And a lot of them were shipped off to
another time frame so they never were returned to their original point of
origin and live their life out wherever they are, under what conditions who
The massive redistribution, if you want to put it that way, of people,
reprogramming them is something which is totally alien to our Constitution
and our concepts, not only our religious concepts of freedom, hut our
political concepts of freedom as we have known it under the Constitution for
almost 200 years. The Constitution has existed longer but I say almost 200
years because these government programs have come into play since about 1947
and they get worse every year and theyíre not restricted to the U.S. But the
U.S. seems to be the most vicious in it, by far the most vicious. The
suppression of men and the control of the men media is by far the worst in
the U,S. Itís much worse than in Russia. Thereís more freedom to speak in
Russia than there is in this country. Iím speaking of the last year or two
Interview provided courtesy of
and The Sovreign Scribe