[P.H.] It is a pleasure to
see you here in Roswell. I think that you said that you grew up
in this area. I think you said that you lived here when you were
about 3 to 13 years old?
[E.M.] I lived here from when I was 5 until I went off to
College. We had a family business in the valley. It was between
Roswell and Artesia.
[P.H.] Friends talked you into coming to speak here at the UFO
[E.M.] I resisted for a long time.
[P.H.] Did you resist because it was connected with the UFO
[E.M.] No. I think I’ve reached the point that I‘m convinced
enough of the reality of the ET presence and I’m not going to
deny it and shy away from it. I don’t get into it in detail.
That is not my area.
[P.H.] I know that your area is more the metaphysical.
[E.M.] Well I think it is an interaction there. Particularly
since there does seem to be a non local communication or mental
tie here with some of these functions, whether they are real or
not, I don’t know.…
[P.H.] Can I ask you why is it do they pick you of all the
astronauts? In the media you have been selected as one who
represents the astronauts’ testimony as to this UFO reality
although you mentioned you never saw one in space. Gordon Cooper
talks a lot more about it in his book Leap of Faith. So why you?
Is it by talking about the metaphysical, they have attached you
to the weirdness [factor]?
[E.M.] I think it was the personal connection since I had
personal contacts in this area. I think it is my credibility as
a scientist. I am very very incredulous about what I see. I
can’t throw caveats in. I don’t make blanket statements. I tell
my sources that disclaim my experience as having first hand
But I trust my sources that have first hand
experience. I am very clear about all of these things and I am
very clear about where our lack of knowledge is. What is the
frontier? What are the unknowns? What are the parameters that we
don’t understand and I think this gives me a lot of credibility.
[P.H.] What advice would you give those serious researchers that
want an answer and let’s say dream of harmony with Cosmic
cultures… What advice would you give them?
[E.M.] We are dealing with a difficult process here. The main
problem that we, as an earth civilization, have not come to
understand ourselves, see ourselves in a cosmic sense at all. We
are still very provincial. We fight over religion. In my
opinion, Fundamentalist Christians are just as bad as
Fundamentalist Islam; and at the very core, neither religion is
like that. In the inner core of both of them, these religions
talk about qualities like love and brotherhood.
[P.H.] You are saying that there are more similarities than
[E.M.] Of course. It’s the cultural differences. It is not an
intrinsic difference. It is like I said in my talk last night:
“the transcendent experience is common to every culture in the
world” and the transcendent experience is brotherly love,
nature, harmony, the unity and cultures in trying to define it,
try to define an external deity as opposed to the process.
[P.H.] It is easier that way because you don’t have any
responsibility. I guess a proverb could be: “You can blame it on
the devil or God. It is a lack of taking responsibility for who
[E.M.] Well, that’s right and our ignorance, and it is based on
the egos we have… Transcendence gets you beyond ego. If you go
beyond ego, you see all of this in a more decent perspective and
you can start to put all pieces together. We haven’t done that
yet. Not as a civilization.
[P.H.] That is why you think that contact is not likely until we
get there. Right? Humanity as a species is not there. You
mention in your talk yesterday, if they ask where you are from,
you don’t say from Earth, you say from LA.
[E.M.] Yes. That’s true
[P.H.] So do you think there has to be a one world kind of
[E.M.] Of course that is what got to happen.
[P.H.] People have some commonality. Right?
[E.M.] In due course, that’s what got to happen. If we survive
that long. We might wipe ourselves out before that I don’t think
it is a forgone conclusion that we are going to survive. That is
where the philosophic, the whole notion of determinism and what
the future is like. We are creating the future. It is not
determined. If we get our act together and solve out current
problems, we could have a sustainable abundant future. If we
we could wipe ourselves out. We are on the verge of doing
it with our current politics. It is regressive going back the
[P.H.] I need to ask you a personal question. Would you have
liked to have had Contact with a cosmic culture?
[E.M.] Yes. Of Course.
[P.H.] This is very ironic because you are the chief astronaut
spokesman for the ET presence and have never had contact. Like
me who has been this work for over 30 years now, and [I] have
never seen a UFO.
[E.M.] Yes. I would. I would like to speak from first hand
experience instead of second hand experience.
[P.H.] Has it been lonely for you to have this vision and not
many people to share it with because the vision you have is kind
of a “completion” vision, a kind of overall picture vision, and
it is true that you are spending three quarters of your time
trying to explain it to people.
[E.M.] I would not put it in those terms because I spend ninety
percent of my time trying to explain it to myself.
[P.H.] But you know that is truth for you for you. You are
outspoken about that.
[E.M.] Well, I‘d like to discover “truth” when I can latch on to
something that I think is true… Our Knowledge base is incomplete
and all we do is keep adding to our knowledge base. I think it
laughable frankly that physics community comes up for a theory
for everything. There isn’t one theory for everything. There is
not one explanation. We may eventually have several theories
that can tie things together nicely but there is not a single
theory of everything.
[P.H.] Like the Big Bang being the main theory of creation and
what about super string theory and others…
[E.M.] Well, the Big Bang has gone away but as far as
String, [that] is suspicious for me. It all starts out with the
notion of Big Bang which starts out, if it were true, starts out
with incredibly high temperatures. So they think we need to get
these high temperatures, these high temperatures for this broken
symmetry, all this broken symmetry reunited, and we do not have
enough energy in the whole galaxy to get to those temperatures,
to prove their point.
To me, that is the single flaw in
String theory. Now there are a lot of good points but if it
could hold together any better than the Big Bang theory, I don’t
know. I’m not a physicist.
[P.H.] You are not going in that direction. You are more into
the awareness and what you can accomplish as a human. Is that
[E.M.] Yes. And I also think we are moving into a direction of
quantum cosmology as opposed to starting with “a big bang “and
trying to make quantum physics fit into it.
[P.H.] Quantum Cosmology. That’s a new term.
[E.M.] That originates from Quantum processes. That is, the
quantum fluctuations within an o-point field can start the
process that builds the process, that builds into matter, an
irreversible process. We have some evidence that suggests that.
You don’t have a Big Bang but we have a lot of little pops!
continuous set of little pops!
[P.H.] That is a good metaphor. In your talk, one of the things
you talked about is that the “intent” creates action. The intent
creates your reality which makes us who we are. If that is true,
then that makes us powerful on the planet that has always been
undermined by great powers trying to put down the masses. So is
the idea that “intent” creates, and you can create realities,
and you can also create events.
[E.M.] We are creating. I don’t create yours and you don’t
create mine but we each create “ours”!
[P.H.] In the past we have always given up our power to the
power structures. So would you agree that it is very likely
unpopular to the individual people and that that doesn’t come
[E.M.] You have to tie it with transcendence because when you
transcend the transcendent states, you get past the ego
structure, and at that point you don’t need laws you have
“morality”! You have inborn natural ethics because it is built
[P.H.] That seems to be the secret word...
[E.M.] Yes. that is why the ancient traditions, even
Christianity, say God is love. There is a symmetry here. The
fundamental step where you get into this transcendent state is
this feeling of ebullience, love and caring and unity.
[P.H.] And you do not need laws.
[E.M.] That is the law! You learn to live in that. It is hard to
live in that too when you are in this world that is why the
great mystics go into the mountains tops; to get away from the
world. So they don’t have to deal with it but it doesn’t help
the world that much.