Martin: Let’s talk about the right use of will. How would you
see that in relationships?
Ghost Wolf: Again, we’re talking about, I call it—life on Earth
is a course in mastership. We can either be "reactionary" or we
can be "causal". When a person is causal, they walk into a room
and the whole room can feel their presence. I’ve seen this with
many speakers. I’ve seen this when Dannion Brinkley walks into a
room, or when I walk into a room, or when Humbatzman walks into
a circle of 200 people who come from all over the world, and
they speak different languages and different paradigm beliefs
and perceptions. He walks into the room—he’s in possession of
self, he does not shift and allow "reactionary consciousness" to
take him over. When he speaks, he speaks focused upon the intent
of the message he’s trying to deliver. When he moves, he moves
deliberately and with intent. There’s no accidental occurrence.
We put purpose into our lives. When we put purpose into our
life, we become causal.
When we move within us—as we were just speaking—the male/female
aspect, in harmony, when we are connected to this incredible
Life-Force that is there for us to constantly draw-upon, it
never, ever runs out. It is never, ever exhausted. But it
requires that you’re in balance to access it! When you’re doing
that, you’re operating from right use of will.
Right use of will has to do with "what is human"—human is flesh
and bone, living in 3rd-dimensional reality, meaning expressing
upon an electromagnetic field.
If it was not the electromagnetic field, we would not have
bodies. What is the condition of the electromagnetic field?
Polarity! Electromagnetic field has polarity. We have polarity
within us on a spiritual level in that we have male/female, we
constantly have a polarity going on. When we move to the center,
when we move to a place of neutrality, this is where creativity
comes from; this is where balance comes from.
When we move to the center, when we’re not on either extreme, we
walk, as they would say 40 years ago, we walk the "middle road".
The "middle road" never meant, don’t have emotion, don’t try,
don’t feel; it meant walk with purpose and in balance. Walk
without getting into either extreme.
The minute that you do that, you’re in contact with the
God-Force. When you’re in contact with the God-Force, everything
that you do comes from the higher octave. Everything that you’re
doing is the Will of Creation; it’s not to suit a personal
agenda, it’s the Will of Creation.
When you’re walking with that Energy, you’re using rightful
will, the right use of will. You will not cause harm, because
it’s senseless. How can you harm your other self?!
The Mayans say, when they look into your eyes, in
l’akesh means "I am your other self". We are ALL our other self!
Remember a little while ago we spoke about every action and
interaction between two people is a mirror image of your own
emotion and your own energies? Well, that’s what it means.
When you’re in harmony, you can only cause life to perpetuate.
There’s a state of IS, and there’s a state of IT. Spirit is
formless. It comes into us on the breath, and when we pass over
to the other world, it leaves on a breath. So, spirit has no
We can see the physical proofs of that here. We are constantly
trying to put spirit into a form, and it has not worked. For
over 35,000 years it hasn’t worked. Spirit will seek its own
fulfillment. Just like love seeks its own fulfillment. It
doesn’t have to have a point-A-to-point-B linearity. That’s
IS is the result of spirit. IS is what is.
Your whole life you spend trying to wake up, to read books, to
study, to do meditations, to do breath, to travel to India, to
travel to the Black Hills, to travel to Maya-land, to travel to
aboriginal teachers, to travel to Shaolin priests, so that you
can fulfill some spiritual longing. And the spiritual longing,
all the time, is right there with you; you’re carrying it.
We simply allow IS—because that’s where we come from. The
Creator IS. The Creator is neither male, nor is the Creator
female. The Creator is not Black, the Creator is not Yellow,
Red, White, Blue, or Reptilian. The Creator is much more than
that, because the Creator is ALL THINGS. We cannot even
comprehend how vast IS is!
What happens with IT—this is where we lose will—is, Light comes
down, it coagulates, it becomes matter. Spirit then resides in
that matter, for experience. In order for it to experience its
environment, it must create an IT to experience in. The IT is
not the reality, it’s the condition. The reality lies in the one
having the experience; the one having the experience is in the
constant state of IS.
Am I being linear? Am I getting—
Martin: You’re doing fine. Keep going.
Ghost Wolf: So, what happens is that when we lose self, when we
lose the balance, we move into a warped perception.
Grandfather Foolscrow used to say to me:
"The problem with man
is that they’re looking at the world through the wrong side of
Now, I spent a long time trying to figure out what he meant by
the statement. And he was talking about IT and IS. When we lose
self, when we lose our connection to Spirit, when we lose our
connection to the Source of Life, the God-Force, the
Creator—whatever name makes you feel good, it’s a matter that
you recognize the feeling—when you lose your connection to that,
what happens is that the IT becomes very big.
All of a sudden it’s the IT that’s causing everything to you,
and everything to happen to you, and every experience that
you’re having, every mishap, every ecstasy, it’s all a result of
the IT. That’s the philosophy of the material world.
In actuality, the IT can change in a moment through the right
use of will, because the IT is simply the result of IS. So you
could say, in a manner of speaking, IT isn’t! All there is, is
This is the state that every spiritually-driven human being
tries to attain. It’s the knowledge; it’s the "Keys of Enoch".
Because the moment that you’re in the IS, there’s no more
conflict. You don’t have any place to defend. You don’t have
anything to justify. You simply ARE.
And in that moment you realize that your Energy can move all
things, and you realize that all things are a result of how you
feel, and all things are affected by your compassion.
So the healer walks over to the person who has lost their sense
of IS, and they’re caught-up in IT, and the healer lays their
hand upon the person, and through the healer becoming as a
hollow bone, with no agenda—there is no self involved, it’s a
selfless state—the energy of IS moves back into the lost person
and they call it a miraculous healing!
All you’ve done is help bring them back into balance. They did
everything on themselves, on their own, because illness is the
result of disharmony—usually, 90 percent of the time, emotional.
When you remove that imbalance and you come back into harmony,
what happens is that the physical structure, the molecules, the
body, then goes into the state that it was created from, which
is IS, which is Perfection.
In that state of Perfection, illness cannot exist! Illness only
exists in disharmony. It only exists through conflict, and we
can take that to any level. We can take that to quantum physics,
we can take that to biochemistry, we can take that down to what
happens when antigens come in and when they’re fighting
pathogens and when things are happening in the body—and it will
still come down to the same basic understanding of energy,
because all things are energy.
When the energy flowing through you is connected to the IS, the
IT does not exist because you KNOW that IT is the result of IS,
and you’re the only one with access to IS. That’s what makes us
such a walking miracle.
The condition of the world and all maladies that are going on,
and the chaos, and the Earth changes, Y2K—look at all these ITs
that are threatening us, no matter where we go!
Every four weeks I get a new prediction coming across my
computer about "this is going to happen on this date". And we
sit there and I listen, and I go:
"If you choose that to happen, it will occur. What’s wrong with
your hypothesis is that not everyone is embracing the same
thought. Some of us are embracing a higher octave. Some of us
are embracing love and compassion, and we see a brighter
outcome. And you can’t change that, so, therefore, the IT that
you speak about will not occur with me."
How can the healer walk into a sweat lodge—let’s create a
hypothetical situation: You’ve got 14 men. They all have AIDS.
They all have lesions. They’re dying. And yet the healer could
walk in there, perform the lodge, move into the higher octaves
of spirit, and what occurs is that the people come out of that
lodge and they’re healed.
Depending on how long they can hold the frequency of what
occurred there, and not slip back into their own IT, determines
the permanency of the healing. If you keep walking back into
your old patterns, if you keep walking back into your mindless
existence—and ITs mindless existence—you don’t know why you do
what you do—you don’t know why you get angry, you don’t know why
you respond the way you respond. Is the whole world suffering
from post-traumatic stress, that we have no responsibility for
our actions anymore? We have no responsibility for our thoughts
If that’s the case, then that’s called insanity, and there’s
nothing that can be done in a state of insanity. There’s nothing
that can be accomplished; there’s nothing that can be changed,
because insanity is a total, reactionary state. It is the
perception of being "the victim". And, in fact, there isn’t a
victim on the face of the Earth. We ALL were given free will.
Martin: Ok, I’m going to shift this a little bit.
Ghost Wolf: Are we losing it?
Martin: No, you’re fine. I want to shift this just a bit. I know
that our readers are going to want to hear from you,
specifically, about the 5th, 6th, and 7th
Thunders, and Mayan
prophecy. Now, take as much time as you need on this one.
Ghost Wolf: That’s quite an enfoldment.
Ghost Wolf: The 5th Thunder has already occurred. Most of the
people who are familiar with that term, and with me, remember me
talking about it on the Art Bell radio program. And I talked
about it more than once. But it sometimes is very hard to get a
linear conversation out on the show (laughter), because you’re
only given 12 minutes in every half-hour.
[Editor’s note: Those of you who regularly listen to
late-night talk-radio program, especially over the past several
years, have had to endure a steady increase in commercial
messages along with Art’s rising popularity and ever-expanding
listening audience. However, until Robert made the above
comment, the problem was not really brought into focus from the
point of view of a guest on Art’s show trying to get a few ideas
across to the listening audience amidst this tidal wave of
commercial interruptions. Several years ago one could expect
about 21-22 minutes of non-commercial program space per half
hour of show; now that number has shrunk considerably, yet
another reflection of so many other aspects of runaway
materialism in our modern world. And yet we must give Art due
credit for providing a most unique "awareness service" through
his radio show. At least one gets to hear about one such as
Robert Ghost Wolf—even if one does not get to hear too much
directly FROM the guest!]
The 5th Thunder has got to do with the Little Devils, and the
Little Devils come from the sky. Understand that the explanation
of this comes from visions of indigenous people, so there’s an
area of perception and poetic license with how do you perceive
what they’re seeing? When you see a vision, you don’t see things
labeled and named and categorized, you simply see a picture of
The elders saw a green mist coming from the sky. And they saw
the green mist coming to the Earth.
Martin: Now, may I just ask you one question? And I hate to
Ghost Wolf: Go ahead.
Martin: Do you think that the green mist is the
ergot mold that Ed Dames and others have seen impacting the plant life of Earth?
Ghost Wolf: I think it’s that and more.
Ghost Wolf: I think that Ed Dames is close, but I don’t think
that he’s looking at the holistic picture. And what I mean by
that is that, some of this—when the elders said "it came from
the stars", one of the first perceptions that we had, when we
first heard this 25 or 30 years ago, was that there was a comet
going to come or something was going to come from outer space.
And, then, if we go back to around the time that the now
Hale-Bopp was up in the air, there were some who talked
about a projectile that seemed to come out of the comet, or
whatever it was, and that it was headed toward Earth.
That brings us into some of the stories, now, about
Cruiser, which is up on my website, which now
and everyone else is starting to talk about, the anomalies of
these strange structures around the Sun that are being seen. Are
they UFOs or are they not? Well, the one thing that we know is
that they’re not natural.
There’s another thing. Some of the technology that we have, that
we’ve developed for bio-warfare, with the chemical
experimentations that we’ve been doing for the last 50-60 years,
some of these things, we’ve created some pretty horrendous
monsters, from AIDS all the way up. There are thousands upon
thousands of genetically engineered, mechanically-constructed
What do I mean by mechanically-constructed viruses? I’m talking
about holographic viruses. I call them "stealth" viruses. When I
looked at a computer analysis, one day, of the different things
that would happen to the computer, and they called it a stealth
virus in the computer, as I was looking along one side of the
board at what was happening to the computer—what was happening
to the loss of memory and the miscommunications between software
programs, the disintegration of work that you’d be working on—I
realized that, as I looked, on the other side, and I looked at
the diseases that were starting to come up, and the new viruses
that were coming up in man, that the symptoms were the same.
At first it scared me. Am I losing my mind, or are these the
same symptoms? Computers are losing memory, people are losing
memory. Computers are having their programs and documents being
eaten-up, we’re suffering from ebola. How come these things are
all similar? I mean, there’s a parallel between each one of
A lot of these things that have been developed, some of them
contrails, regardless of what is said, I know that
I’ve been faced with both sides on this issue. I was talking to
a scientist the other day who said that the whole myth about
they’re killing people with contrails and the diseases that are
coming about, is misinformation. What they’re really trying to
do is—and this is a very high-up NASA scientist, who is working
with the military and talking about the strange weather
anomalies and the contrails—he said that what they’re trying to
do is that they’re trying to repair holes in the ozone.
I said, "Oh, really? That’s interesting." We talked about the
nature of these contrails. We talked about the fungus that comes
out of the contrails. We talked about the phosphorescent type of
clouds that seem to appear, and how, all of sudden these
clouds—you’ll see these contrails go over—and within a period of
an hour to two hours, they’re sometimes shorter, all of a
sudden, instead of contrails, you’ll have a completely overcast
sky. Then, from the overcast sky, you suddenly see these little,
tiny, cumulus clouds forming. And the clouds are always
phosphorescent. And he’s saying that the nature of what they’re
using to try to repair the ozone is what’s causing that to
Then he gave me all these wonderful explanations and I said,
"Well, that’s great. How come everybody down below is suffering
from a whole myriad of illnesses, usually respiratory, usually
And he said—finally he admitted—that
"Well, part of that is a
side effect, but it’s ok, because you have to look at the fact
that if we repair the ozone, we’re going to be saving millions
and millions of lives."
And I said, "So, that sounds like good-ol’ World War II, John
Wayne, military intelligence. If we have to sacrifice 100,000
people to save everybody, well, then, that’s what we’re going to
That’s what they did when they blew up the astronauts, that time
that the 7 astronauts died, when the Shuttle took off, and they
had the problem with the o-ring. They were all still alive. The
order was given that this would probably go awry, and it could
probably land in Tallahassee and would probably kill a quarter
of a million people. So, it was better to do away with the 7
people up there, and a button was pushed. It was a
"self-destruct". And I’ve talked to too many people about that,
from David Adare all the way down the line. Everybody knows what
happened with that one.
And since we haven’t got a lot of time, we might as well talk
about the truth.
I’ve seen the fungus that comes out of these
contrails, and I’ve
seen the effects of it. I’ve seen thousands of birds laying dead
in the woods, up here in the Pacific Northwest, thousands of
birds. They all have fungus on their beaks. They all have fungus
on their feet. I’ve turned around and seen blight on plants, on
vegetables, and in trees, and there’s no reason to have the
You try to grow a garden, and suddenly everything dies and
withers. It looks like it was burnt by the Sun, and you go over
to it and there’s this fungus on it. I’ve seen the fungus on
caterpillars. I’ve seen it on beetles. I’ve seen it on the wood
decks of houses. You turn around, and you pour bleach on it, and
it doesn’t do anything. It comes right back, ok?
Martin: Now, we’re still on the 5th Thunder, I presume?
Ghost Wolf: Yes, we’re still on the 5th Thunder. This all has to
do with these three Little Devils. They happen to be pathogens.
Now, this goes into the question: how do bugs breathe? Bugs
breathe through their bellies. So, what do bugs do, besides fly
and annoy you? They crawl, they crawl on everything, correct?
And while they’re crawling on everything, they’re picking up the
fungus and they’re breathing-in the fungus. They’re taking it in
with their food supply. They’re excreting it through their
waste. It’s now on everything.
You turn around and you touch something, you eat something, the
rain comes—usually after you see the contrails—it all washes
into the water. You have the fish turning belly-up. You have the
fish growing strange growths on their bodies, all sorts of
funguses, dying by millions. Fish dying by the millions. I just
got a telephone call from a fellow in Texas who said to me:
"Ghost Wolf, you talked about this stuff and I’ve got to tell
you that there’s this really strange thing happening down here.
Is there any sort of enlightenment you can give us about what’s
I said "Well, what’s going on?"
He says to me "Well, all the red-wing blackbirds all died one
I said "What do you mean?"
He said "Everywhere, all over the fields." Everywhere you
went—it’s like a big, popular bird down there, it’s a popular
bird to his people, he’s a Kiawa. And he said "They’re all
I was sitting in Idaho, another incident, and one day there were
at least 30 hummingbirds flying around. And my friend had the
feeders out, and they had been doing this for years.
All of a sudden, the next day, there were NO hummingbirds—in one
day! We turned around and we said "Well, what was it? Did it get
cold last night? Did something strange happen?" Nothing
It appeared that—this is the talk amongst people everywhere,
because the people up here in the Pacific Northwest like to live
in the woods, and they like things that live in the woods, like
deer and birds and rabbits and butterflies—well, it seems that
the hummingbirds are dead everywhere.
Then people started to find them in the woods, and I asked them
to bring them in, and let me see them. They all had this fungus
growing on their beaks, encrusted around their eyes and on their
We’re now sitting, in this country—and the medical proof is
there folks, you just gotta go out and look at and read it—but
greater than 95% of the people in America have tuberculosis. It
may not be active to the point that they can’t breathe from it,
that they’re dying from it yet—but they’re all suffering from
chronic coughs. They’re all suffering from pains in the lungs,
chronic flus, chronic respiratory things. The hospitals are
filled beyond capacity with these new forms of TB that are
immune, totally immune, to any antibiotics that they can come up
We have another thing going on, with these other things that are
going on. It seems that everybody is suffering from a form of
immune deficiency. There is no such thing as immune deficiency.
That’s a pretty powerful statement; you’re stepping out on the
line, Robert. Ah-huh, I think everything’s working fine.
I think that what it is, and from our research and from working
with different friends I have who have capabilities and labs
that I don’t have, and I would say this is what I’m looking
at—the behavioral patterns of what I’m seeing—what’s happening
to everybody’s immune system. How come you have so many people
coming to your house for healing? How come you can’t keep up
with the amount of herbs that you’re making? How come these
people are going to the doctors and the hospitals and they can’t
get rid of the cough, and they can’t get rid of this thing, and
having heart palpitations and heart attacks, and they’re getting
migraine headaches, and they’re all suffering from lack of
energy and intestinal things. What the heck is going on? And
what they found out is that the pathogen—and this sort-of
borders on science fiction—remember
Kurt Vonnegut? Did you ever
read any of Kurt Vonnegut?
Martin: I did.
Ghost Wolf: Well, we’re in Kurt Vonnegut-land now. You’re
sitting here and you’ve got this pathogen that is holographically imprinted into a molecular form, the basic
building-blocks of life, the proteins. They spray the trees,
they spray everything. This causes a fungus, and the fungus
becomes a breeding ground for these pathogens. The pathogen is
ingested or breathed into the body, it’s drunk through the
fluids, because every time it rains everything in the woods goes
down through the creeks. People forget where the water comes
from that they drink in L.A. It all comes from where we’re
walking and looking at it, up here in the hills.
We’re looking at everything, that’s around the water, dying.
We’re looking at the birds dying. We’re looking at the willows
dying. We’re looking at the insects dying. We’re looking at the
butterflies disappearing. We’re looking at ducks and geese
laying by the sides of the creeks dead. We’re looking at
hundreds and thousands of fish laying dead.
You walk along the pathway in the forest, the birds just laying
by the side of the road, and you’re going "Wait a minute! What’s
going on here?!" When we started to open up some of the birds,
we found out that some of the birds—they all had brain lesions
inside, their intestines were all being eaten-up alive. The same
thing that happens when your dog goes out and accidentally eats
It’s a form of ebola. We started to ask,
"Well, what’s happening
and how is this working on the immune system?"
Well, if you, holographically, take the conditions and the frequencies —if
everything is truly energy, and everything is truly
frequency— and you "broadcast" it into the protein, and the
protein then responds to frequencies, it responds to frequencies
but you ingest the protein —whether you take it in through liquid
form, through solid food, or through breathing the dust— it goes
into your bloodstream; it’s sitting in your blood.
Now your immune system is checking everything out, and it goes
"There’s nothing wrong. All I see is protein, everything is
fine." It goes right by. Now, what happens is, depending upon
where you have imbalances in your body and the frequencies
alter, it’ll tend to coagulate. As it tends to coagulate, you’ll
come out with a variety of symptoms, based upon what you,
yourself, are projecting. So, if you’re prone to the frequency
of cancer, you’ll produce cancer in your body. If you’re prone
to the frequency of tuberculosis, you’ll produce tuberculosis.
If you’re prone toward having cysts or tumors in your body,
it’ll manifest that way. And it can’t be detected by the immune
system, because it’s, literally, hidden in the protein. It
doesn’t have a form as such. It’s a mechanically engineered,
holographic virus. You can’t see the damn thing under a
microscope, but it will respond to frequencies.
Martin: Well, fortunately, our readers have read enough
interviews that I’ve done with Len Horowitz that this will not
be too abstract for them. They’ll get that.
Ghost Wolf: Len and I have done some work together. This has to
do with the mist.
As we’re moving from the 5th to the 6th, we’re moving into some
of the things that we touched on earlier, which is the higher
octave frequencies, causing a shifting of dimensional realities.
As we shift in dimensional realities, we’re not only having an
experience of different thoughts, we’re not only perceiving
colors that we couldn’t perceive before, but these also have
We’re seeing, upon this Earth, as we come into the 6th Thunder,
things that come from other dimensions being leaped back into
this dimension, such as chupacabra—things that were blocked out
of this reality for so long that they became myth. We’re seeing
new forms of animal life, and we’re seeing the old forms of
animal life begin to disappear at a startlingly rapid speed.
The whales are almost gone. There are certain fish that don’t
even exist anymore. I just had a report here that came into my
newswire service, because we put out a magazine called The Wolf
Report, and they sent me this report. On the East Coast, all of
the lobsters and the crabs, from Maine all the way down to
Georgia, are dead. They’re not there. They grow to a certain
size, then they die.
So, the whole fishing industry back there—never mind all the
other effects that it has on down the food chain—it’s completely
falling apart. And it has been progressing that way over the
last three years, to now they’re just not there.
There’s places where they’re just not there. For the most part,
90% of what they used to use and catch and harvest, is now
defunct. Now that reminds me of things that I heard a certain
lunatic talk about back in 1989, by the name of Jacques
Cousteau, who tried to tell us that 80% of the oceans are dead.
But they took his show off the air after he made that statement.
We’re seeing new forms of life. The new forms of life are
happening in the microbiotic world; we’re seeing new forms of
plankton being formed. They’re mutating—life will mutate—we have
two philosophies to look at life: monomorphic and pleomorphic.
If we go toward the original concepts of allopathic medicine,
and we talk about Pasteur, and we talk about his theories of
mono—everything comes from one cell, everything is related—next
to pleomorphic, multiple forms, that life will transmute to
adjust to the condition. Well, this is what we’re seeing, number
one, in these viruses. These viruses tend to have their own
intelligence. They proliferate themselves. The basic nature of
the virus, as it enters the vehicle, whether the vehicle be the
rabbit or the human, it then takes over the system. It adjusts
the system and causes chemicals and things to be released in the
system to change the environment within the system to better
Then it winds up taking over the consciousness of the person—I
told you where we were going—because, all of a sudden you start
desiring and craving certain foods. You start desiring and
craving certain things that cause certain emotions, that cause
your body to release adrenalin, that cause your body to become
acidic, that cause your body to better "host" this pathogen.
So, what’s happening to you? You’re being taken over. It’s no
longer you telling you what you want to eat. It’s no longer you
telling you what kind of an emotion you’re going to have. You’re
totally reactionary to this mysterious, mechanically engineered
pathogen that’s moving inside of you. This is happening in all
walks of life.
We’re seeing, also, as we’re moving into the 6th Thunder, and
the dimensional shifts start to happen, we’re seeing many people
deciding to leave. I talked about how, all of a sudden, people
would even start leaving in groups. How whole groups of people
would stop having children, because they would realize that the
End Times were imminent, and that the shift was here, and until
we’d gone through the Purification, there was no need to keep
reproducing. Now we’re seeing evidence of that in many
indigenous tribes around the world, where they have simply
stopped having children.
We’re seeing where people are, literally, selling everything
they own and going up to live in the woods because there’s no
point in it anymore. Amongst our own indigenous Native American
people, we’re seeing many of the elders totally stopping what
they were doing. They’re going:
"There’s no point anymore.
There’s just no point anymore. The game’s over now."
We’re seeing thousands and thousands and thousands of people
dying every day, especially amongst the elders who have the
wisdom, because nobody is listening. This would be the beginning
of what they call "the sorrows", because as that started to
happen, there’s a balance that happens in this Earth.
Remember when we talked about IS and we talked about IT. One of
the conditions of IT is that, when you forget the chain of
consciousness, when you go out and you carelessly take down
grandfather trees without realizing that they are beings of
tremendous consciousness, that they hold consciousness, when you
start losing all of the whales, and the whales hold the memory
of the planet, they hold the memory of all that happened, when
you start losing all of the dolphins, when you start losing all
of the animal forms, when you start losing all of these ancient
things, and you start losing your own people, the mysteries, the
knowledge disappearing with them, what happens?
Consciousness begins to implode.
As the consciousness begins to implode, we would then suffer
from an even greater abnormality. How we could once see along
timelines, and how we could tell what would happen, we would no
longer be able to do, because mankind would have gone in and
manipulated that matrix that they call "the web of life" to such
an extent that it could never be repaired.
We would start to see the fabric of time begin to dissolve, and
we would start to see the consciousness of the planet—which is
US, we are the ones who live on the planet, we dictate the
nature of the consciousness here, at this point—as this began to
dissolve and break apart, there would be a new consciousness
that would come in, but they did not know what this new
consciousness would be. That life would, among certain people,
transmute to those who came and lived in the natural way, who
lived according to the original teachings.
In small groups, life would transmute to be able to adapt to the
new conditions on this planet, like interdimensional shifting.
We would experience even further abnormalities because we would
understand that people, souls, were being inserted into bodies;
that you would be sitting there talking to a person who would
not be a human being. They would look like a human being, but
they would not be a human being. They would not have the
feelings of human beings. They would not have the normal
responses that we do to life of human beings.
I said, "Well, what did you mean by that?" That’s where, in
Winds Of Change, I wrote about what the word waichitchu means.
We’ve all seen the Indian movies, and we’ve seen Dances With
Wolves, and he’s running up to the Indian camp and the woman
goes running back to the camp, and she’s going "waichitchu,
As a colloquialism we have come to accept it as meaning "Oh,
it’s those bad, evil White guys". But it has nothing to do with
that. It has nothing to do with race. It has nothing to do with
Waichitchu means "soul-less beings". This comes from an
understanding that all beings who are here from The Source, from
the Original, gave out emanations, just like Source emanates
Itself. We draw our energy from Source. We, ourselves, are
nothing but vessels through which that Energy moves. Depending
upon our connection to Source and our center, and our right use
of will, we can connect to that Source and we are constantly
replenished. The living proof of that is that, in every culture,
even the Judeo-Christian culture, they talk about how our
ancestors lived for very long periods of time.
But we don’t live that long anymore. Now our life is being
extended because of technology. We now live to be 85. Probably
in 20 years we’ll live to be 150 or 200, but there won’t be as
many of us.
So, what are these soul-less beings? What do you mean,
emanations? If you take a light and you put a light through a
crystal, through every facet of the crystal a beam of light will
come out, and every place that that beam of light hits, it will
reduplicate the shape of the crystal. What that is, is an
emanation of the crystal, but it is not the source of the light.
It is simply a reflection.
What they’re talking about with the emanations is, they’re
talking about beings, literally, being inserted into bodies. So
this gives some credence to the talk about reptilians and other
Yes, things are occurring. They are not strangers to our world.
There is, in every ancient culture, stories of these beings, and
the stories of how they interwove with our society here; the
story of how they interbred with our society here. It’s in every
culture. It’s in every science, even the Judeo-Christian.
But you have to go to the "black robes" and you have to go to
ancient vaults in
the Vatican where all this stuff was hidden,
and then that gets us into the little, interesting stories about
the Illuminati and the
Knights Templar and the Masons and all
the secret societies that we’re not talking about now.
They talked about these souls being transferred in. They talked
about the appearance of "walk-ins"—one of the phenomena that
started appearing in the ’80s with people who would be coming
out and they would be channeling. And they would say "Well,
where are you getting your information? What’s this?" And they
would say "I’m a walk-in".
Well, when I grew up that used to mean that you could walk into
the barber shop and get a haircut, right? Walk-ins accepted.
(Laughter) Now we understand that term from a whole different
paradigm. And this is what they saw happening.
The other thing that they saw happening in the 6th Thunder was
the total degeneration of the human spirit. That the human
spirit—what I refer to as the tonal—the
tonal would begin to
weaken, along with the implosion of consciousness, and when this
happened, other forms of life began to disappear because we were
living without conscience. When they say these things, they’re
not being moralistic. So, we have to understand it from that
perception. They are simply talking, objectively, about why the
result is happening.
Living without conscience means:
You kill 3,000-year-old
cedar trees along the West Coast and you don’t care what
You turn around and you change the course of a river,
and you don’t care what happens.
You go out into the Pacific
Ocean and you do sonar testing and you kill 5,000 whales, and
you don’t care what happens.
It means that you turn around and
you hold experiments by spraying contrails all over millions of
people to see what the effect would be, and you don’t have a
It means that you turn-around and you put
and fluoride and all of these things into the water, which,
people don’t know what they are.
They tell you that it protects
you from cavities. That’s the biggest bunch of malarkey in the
Did you know that fluoride is the same thing that
that the Romans used to put into the water to control the moods
of the people? It’s just a chemical version of it. It’s a
tranquilizer. And what does it do, physically, to the body? It
throws the pineal gland into absolute atrophy. What does that
mean? It means you can’t use your third eye, I don’t care how
many mantras you use. You can’t because your pineal gland is
drugged, it’s totally drugged.
They turn around and they’re spraying these chemicals on
cigarettes. Is it the chemicals that are causing the cancer? No,
that’s not causing the cancer. But you know one of the things
that the chemicals absolutely do? They paralyze your thymus.
Now, do you know what the thymus does? What the thymus does is,
the thymus regulates the reproduction of the cells. The thymus
is, literally, the ductless gland—it’s right by where the center
of your heart is, in your chest—and the thymus, when you’re
born, is probably about the size of an apricot pit. By the time
a person is 50 or 60, it’s usually the size of a very small pea,
and it’s all shriveled up, like a raisin, because it goes into
atrophy because of all the chemicals and toxins.
Well, when that happens, what happens is you automatically kick
into your body a "death hormone". It’s an automatic process. The
body doesn’t have a mind. The body comes from IS. The body
doesn’t have an agenda, it comes from IS. It reacts through a
mechanical matrix. So, you throw on the death hormone and you
stop reproducing cells. You stop rejuvenating. Your skin starts
to sag. Your mind starts to slow down. Your muscles don’t
rejuvenate and replenish. You start to get aches and pains. You
can’t move up and down the stairs. You’re not able to pump
enough oxygen through your system, and you’re suffering from
There’s nothing wrong with you except that you’re suffering from
the effects of these things. These are all the things that we
saw going into the 6th Thunder, which was preparing for the 7th.
The 7th has two possible scenarios. In the 7th Thunder, human
consciousness would reach a state of such complete collapse that
we would, literally, be taken over by another consciousness, so
that life would continue here. But as we perceive humanity, we
would no longer be. That could mean, as this world once was, it
would be the home to many people, from many different parts of
There are many races out there who are dying because they have
lost the gift that we had, as humanity. The gift that we had as
humanity was our emotion, or feeling. They don’t know what love
is, they’re bewildered by it. They don’t even have tears. Tears
are like precious gems to them. They come here and they
experiment with us. They experiment with our bodies. Can anybody
deny the rate at which children are, literally, disappearing in
this country? It’s unbelievable. We’re talking about tens of
thousands of children every month. Read the reports.
You see, they fill us with all this other stuff, and a lot of
static, so that we don’t get focused and look at these kinds of
things. But last year alone, in the state of New York, 8000
children disappeared under the age of 16. Where did they go?
That’s only one state.
So, where are all these thousands, and tens of thousands of
children, going? Where are they disappearing to? What are all
these mutilations going on? What are all these
on? And, now, we can sit down and we can talk and we can have a
show, and we can listen to Bud Hopkins and Ed Dames will get on
and a couple of other people, and we’ll realize that, well,
Whitley Streiber is doing a narration, then we realize that,
well, these things are really going on.
Ok, so we’re starting to wake up, but are we waking up fast
enough? If we do not take the responsibility of this Earth, then
someone else will come in and take it over, because it was never
ours to begin with. We just became the dominant species. And
everything in our history, and everything that we’re relating
to, does not come from myth, because you can go to the ancient
buildings that are still there, and the writings are there, if
you know how to look. They’re coming up with discoveries every
day that are talking about things that we’ve thought, even 20
years ago, would have been impossible.
I’m working on a dig, an archeological site, right now, where we
have Grecian, Hebrew, Egyptian, Sumerian art artifacts,
that have nothing to do with Native American Indians. We’re
talking about vessels in jars, and we’re talking about tablets
that have Hebraic writing, Venetian writing, Celtic writing—it’s
right here in the U.S.A.
It’s not something that we found over by the Great Pyramid. We
found 12 chambers. Originally we thought there were only 2.
These things are now coming to the surface. That was something
else that I spoke about in Winds Of Change, which was: all
things hidden shall be revealed.
Two scenarios, I said. To touch on what happens between the 6th
and 7th, I have to touch on something that I’ve spoken about for
many years now, which is: In 1953, something happened near Bear
was President. They made a movie in this
country called Close Encounters, right? It wasn’t based entirely
on fiction. There was information that we got, based upon what
we refer to now as the
Montauk experiments, or the Phoenix
experiments, there were many, many experiments. They’re still
going on. There were thousands of experiments. They’ve
experimented with time.
It started with the Nazis. It started with the Germans. There’s
a major underground complex in
Antarctica. Part of the problem
in Antarctica is that the underground city that they have there
is so big that the heat that’s being generated from it is
cracking the ice. It’s melting the ice. It’s causing it to fall
off in chunks that are unbelievable. They think they just lost a
chunk there, a few weeks ago, that was the size of Rhode Island.
If we go to the ancient teachings of the Mayans and the
Tibetans, we have to understand something first, and be able
to—or, let’s say, rather than understand, we have to be willing
to look at a possible other scenario.
I do a lot of work now with the Mayans and with the
reason why I do the work with them, extensively, is that they
never denied the existence of star people. They never denied the
existence of the great teachers in the other world. And they
never denied that we are, actually, the children of the stars,
and that means literally—that the beings who came from the stars
came here and created us. They’ve never denied that; they’ve
never lost that knowledge. They’re not so steeped in
traditionalism that they do not talk about it to the outside
The Mayans speak about it freely. There are not that many
left, who are true Hopi, who are Hopi Sinom. Last year I lost 8
elders, including Chief Dan Evahema. He’s the last Hopi chief.
They have no Hopi chief now. He was the last high priest. So,
the Hopis, right now, are in a sad place. They’re waiting for
the children to come up. But the children are coming up in a
world that the Hopis never thought they would come up in.
There’s no one to turn over the information, there’s no one to
hand down the information to them. The Mayans have been luckier
When we experimented with time, when we traveled
interdimensionally, when we moved the U.S.S. Eldridge in the
Philadelphia Experiment from one place to another, we ripped
open holes in time. Beings came here from other places. They
exchanged knowledge with our leaders, because they needed
something. They needed to repair what they had that got here
that was damaged. In the exchange for what they needed, they
gave us information that they never thought we would do anything
with. They never thought that we would be able to figure out and
calculate time-travel. But, we fooled them. We did it. Despite
all the bad qualities, you know, of being an American and not
being cultured, and not being smooth, and being crazy cowboys
and yanks, we are tremendously ingenious. We can figure out
anything. And we figured it out. When we did that, we changed
In exchange for the information that we kept getting from the
ETs, the ETs asked that they would be able to experiment with
us, with our cattle, with our planet, in a relationship with
them, with the world leaders, so that they could help their own
dying races, they could help their own situation. The abductions
began, the mutilations began. The contracts that were made,
whatever those contracts were, the date that those contracts
were up is 1997.
In 1997, things started to happen, in the UFO world, if you look
back. All of a sudden there were sightings everywhere. It wasn’t
Billy Meier talking about things, these things were
everywhere. I mean, we were getting reports from the Swedish
airport, from Mexico, from Argentina, from China, from Paris for
crying out loud, from England, everywhere. The ships were being
found everywhere, they’re everywhere—10, 12, 20 at a
time—almost, sometimes, on a hourly basis in some places. It
began. And what they began was, they turned around and they gave
us an ultimatum. The ultimatum was that we had 2 years to get
this Earth back in order, because it was so environmentally
unbalanced it was set on a time-clock for self-destruct. If we
did not get this Earth back in order, if we did not get our
social orders back in order, they would intervene.
The 7th Thunder—we have two alternatives. Again, if we do not
get our planet in order, if we do not come back to our original
understandings, teachings—understanding that the value of life
and the importance of it being based upon your spiritual
evolution, not the technological evolution—if we didn’t stop
enslaving our own people, if we didn’t stop manipulating our own
races and consciousness to build slave races, that those who had
original claims to this place would return. There is much talk
in many cultures where the term is used "This will be yours
until the end of time" or "This is here until the end of time"
or "May the Gods be with you until the end of time".
literal, it wasn’t metaphorical.
The time-space continuum, if we understand what time is, time is
not linear. Time is spherical. The other peculiarity about time
is that time stands still. Time goes nowhere. What gives us the
perception of time passing is our moving through time. If we go
into the studies of ancient geometry and the ancient texts of
the Mayans, the Tibetans, or the Egyptians, we understand that
moving through time, moving through dimensions, didn’t have to
do with angles, it had to do with curves. We understand the
different sciences and the physics. Now we have this incredible
new school, or church, that was started by the great priest
Einstein, who talked about relativity: E=MC2.
You see, he understood energy. He understood the holographic
universe. He understood so much about it that he couldn’t even
communicate to half the people around him because, back then,
they didn’t know what Albert was talking about. But he was
talking about the very knowledge that we’re talking about now.
We have, within our bodies, 22-24 strands of DNA. Some of the
new children being born into the planet have
24 strands of DNA.
They are immune to every disease and every stealth virus. At the
age of 4, 5, and 6, they can speak 3 or 4 languages, they can
work out calculus and mathematics, they can play music. They’re
absolutely amazing. These children are being born up in Canada,
they’re being born down in South America, they’re being born in
what we would call the "outback" countries. You know, not where
the sophisticated technology is.
We tend to think a lot that the whole world is Silicon Valley
and nothing exists beyond it. And that’s a fallacy. Because, in
reality, that whole part of reality at this time is the smaller
part of life on the planet. But, because we do everything on the
Internet, we do everything through the media, and we do
everything on television, we do everything in the movies, we
don’t go out and experience life for ourselves, so we’re buying
the package. We’re buying the programming of limitation. We don’t
realize that that represents less than 20% of the planet. That
the other 80% is living a totally different reality.
These new children that are being born with 24 strands of DNA,
again, have tremendous abilities that we’re seeing thus far.
This has been going on for the last 10 years. We’re seeing,
also, that they have tremendous telepathic powers. They also
have abilities to turn around and control their parents, at