conducted 6 November 2003
Historian and best-selling author Laurence Gardner discusses the
powers of white powder gold,
the Ark of the Covenant, the Knights
Templar and his new sci-fi screenplay cantered around the Shroud of
Number 4 (June-July 2004)
THE WHITE POWDER GOLD OF THE ANCIENTS
Since his latest book,
Lost Secrets of the Sacred Ark, was published
in February 2003, best-selling author Sir Laurence Gardner has been
giving worldwide lectures about the rediscovery of arcane
knowledgeóin particular, the extraordinary powers of white powder
When gold and platinum-group metals are transformed into the
monatomic state, a fine white powder is produced. This substance was
used by pharaohs and kings of the ancient world. It was also part of
the secret knowledge of mediaeval alchemy and the Knights Templar.
Research on this has been forging ahead, and some amazing properties
of high-spin monatomic elements have now been scientifically
This has huge and potentially revolutionary implications. Humanity
now has within its reach a potential cure for cancer without drugs
or surgery, an environment-friendly alternative to fossil fuels, a
means to transform human consciousness, the possibility of low or
zero-gravity flight, space travel by manipulation of space-time, and
access to other dimensions (which scientists have now proved to be
In this interview conducted at
Growing Needs Bookshop in
Glastonbury, England, Laurence talked about some of the latest
developments in this field. We began by discussing how news of its
use as a cure for cancer has begun to spread to the mainstream
ó Atasha McMillan
MONATOMIC ELEMENTS, HEALING AND ANTIGRAVITY
Laurence Gardner (LG): Iíve been talking about gold as an effective
catalyst in cancer treatment for a long timeóand it is now
happening. The World Gold Council is confirming this in its
literature, and the Securities & Exchange Commission, Washington,
DC, is now publishing it in its bullion prospectus. The S&EC also
reports on other aspects that I have written about in the past.
Future applications for gold, it says [reads from S&EC prospectus],
"are in pollution control, clean energy generation and fuel cell
technology. In addition, work is under way on the use of gold in
Atasha McMillan (AM): Are the research tests for this being done
mostly in America?
LG: Theyíre being done all over. Scientific journals from
Switzerland, Germany, Italy, Spain, France, Singapore, Israel,
Britain and America are all commenting in this regard, with
headlines such as "The Amazing Properties of Monatomic Gold". There
are no limitations on this now. Singapore University is making great
progress with gold in cancer treatment, and Rice University, Texas,
has reported amazing success in recent remedial trials with nano-gold.
AM: Youíve said that monatomic elements can be used in connection
with space travel. Can you explain a bit more about that, and about
how research in that area is progressing?
LG: Monatomic transition-group elements were classified some time
ago as "exotic matter" because they have a negative energy density
and the ability to manipulate space-time. Physicists now say that
exotic matter is the key to traveling enormous distancesóseemingly
faster than the speed of light, but with an acceleration rate of
zero. They are looking at the concept of moving the space instead of
the spacecraftóthat is to say, contracting space-time in front of
the ship, with a commensurate expansion of the space-time behind it.
NASAís Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Project is leading the
research in this regard. We also have the aircraft industry
investigating the concept of antigravity flight. Monatomic elements
are operative high-temperature superconductors, and superconductors
will levitate. They have a null magnetic field and will repel
external magnetic fields. The Center for Advanced Study in Illinois
has classified superconductivity as "the most remarkable physical
property in the universe".
So, as the UK Ministry of
Defense has stated, "Anti-gravity
propulsion is now coming out of the closet". In this arena,
is working on Project Grasp at its top-secret Phantom Works in
Seattle, and British Aerospace has its parallel Project Greenglow.
There is also a new UKĖUS joint venture called Project Falcon. Back
in August , British Aerospace and Boeing met at the Pentagon
to talk about their plan for a 6,000-miles-per-hour aircraftóthatís
around five times the speed of the now redundant Concorde.
AM: You have also mentioned the prospect of teleporting matter from
one place to another.
LG: Yes; nanophysics and monatomic sciences are now leading us into
some astonishing new realms. NASA and the Ohio Aerospace Institute
are talking about teleportation as if itís just around the corner.
By the use of coupled quantum systems, theyíll soon be able to
teleport matter instead of moving it physically. "By this means,"
they say, "even people could be transported by sending enough
So, by the time we get round to the kind of high-speed antigravity
aircraft they think they can produce, we might not even need
aircraft! In fact, they say that a digital cloning process is also
possibleómeaning that we could actually be in more than one place at
the same time!
AM: And yet the ancient people knew about these things?
LG: They certainly knew about monatomic elements and
superconductors, even if they didnít understand the science behind
them. There were various names and terms for these phenomena in
different cultures. As for the scientific aspects, maybe they didnít
know specifically that these magical powders resonated with DNA or
that they were immune system enhancers but they undoubtedly knew of
their healing and anti-ageing properties. They also told of
levitation, movement into parallel dimensions, communication with
gods, and the like. In so many instances, their descriptions were
commensurate with modern scientific discoveries; they just used
different terminology. They might not have known precisely what they
were dealing with, but they clearly knew about the substances in
AM: You said at a recent lecture that monatomics could
memory and learning abilities.
LG: Absolutely. In fact, some remarkable tests were conducted last
year by the Alphalearning Institute at the World Trade Center in
Lugano. They are specialists in behavioral sciences and learning
deficiencies such as dyslexia and ADHD. Over a number of weeks, they
gave measured doses of monatomic supplements to ten volunteersómales
and females of varying ages. The results were quite staggering.
Their EEG brain scans showed a significant enhancement of alpha
waves, leading to perfect hemispheric left and right brain
This facilitates heightened learning ability,
memory and creative skills, and a substantial lowering of the stress
factor. Their report stated that the results were both immediate and
cumulative, while being a significant aid in exam-type situations,
whether mental or physical.
ARK OF THE COVENANT AND THE TEMPLARS
AM: Was the Ark of the Covenant connected to the
white powder of
LG: Yes; it was all part of the same sequence in Exodus óthe events
at Mount Sinai, when Moses burnt the golden calf and turned it into
a powder that he fed to the Israelites.
AM: Do we know where the
LG: Well, from Sinai, it was eventually taken to
placed in the Templeís holy sanctuary.
AM: Some people say it was stolen by a son of Solomon and Sheba, and
taken to Ethiopia.
LG: That was a concept which arose in a 13th-century book called the
Kebra Nagast ("The Glory of Kings"). It was designed to cement a
Judaic history for the new royal dynasty in Ethiopia, but it was
entirely fictional. It works quite well for the modern Ethiopian
tourist industry, whose representatives say they have the Ark locked
away in a crude 1960s building at Aksum. But no one has ever seen
itónot even the Patriarch of the region. Itís just a story. What
they actually have there is a manbara tabotóa casket that contains a
venerated altar slab. They carry this through the streets annually,
beneath a draped cloth.
AM: Where did the Ark go then?
LG: In biblical terms, it remained in
Jerusalem for many generations
after King Solomon. It is mentioned repeatedly throughout the Old
Testament to the time of the invasion by Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon.
The Ark was then hidden by Hilkiah, the High Priest, before the
Temple was destroyed in around 586 BC.
At that time, the Captain of the Temple Guard was
Hilkiahís son Jeremiah, whom we generally think of as a prophet. Prior to the
Babylonian invasion, Hilkiah instructed Jeremiah and the Guard to
hide the great treasures of Jerusalemóthe Ark, the
etc. In the main, they were secreted in tunnels beneath the
Templeóexcept for the Stone, which Jeremiah subsequently carried
westwards. In Ireland it became the anointing stone of the Scots
kingsóthe Stone of Destiny, transported by the kings to their
new-found Scotland in the fifth century.
Anyway, a record was kept of those items hidden beneath the Temple.
This record was retained within the Order of the Temple Guard, who
were in effect the original Knights Templar. Then, around 1,700
years later, the Templars were reconstituted from French and Flemish
knights after the First Crusade. They established their base in the
Mosque, which then stood on the old Temple site, and excavated to
bring up the treasures. They knew exactly what they were looking
for, and where to look.
Interestingly, they left their own relics for a future generation.
In 1894, from beneath the Temple of Jerusalem foundations, British
military engineers brought up 11th- and 12th-century Templar swords,
crosses and various items from way down below the El Aqsa Mosque. So
there is no doubt that the Templars were there. Their patron, Bernard de Clairvaux, recorded their homecoming in 1127. They were
protected en route, he said, by a military guard to safeguard them
from papal interference.
Once returned to France, the Templars became the most powerful
organization the world has ever known. They were both influential
and wealthy, establishing the Western banking system on the Islamic
model. They were bankers to just about every royal court in Europe
and, in time, developed the concept of insurance companies in
Scotland. At the same time, they became the primary ambassadors to
the Middle East.
The biggest of all projects that
the Templars undertook was the
building of the great Gothic cathedrals in Franceóthe Notre Dame
cathedrals. Even today, architects are in awe of the extensive,
unsupported roof spans. Many still claim that in theory they are
AM: How did they do it?
LG: Well, we know that cathedral stones are
highly paramagnetic, and
that the Gothic arch design further aids the antigravity thrust of
the buildings. Certain granites, sandstones and other rock types are
also high in monatomic elemental content, and we know that these
elements have levitative qualities óespecially if subjected to strong
magnetism or frequencies, which repel them. Bluestone granite, as at
Stonehenge, is a good example of a stone that can react in some
opposition to gravitational thrust.
Stonehenge, Herodís Temple, the
Giza pyramids and the Gothic
cathedrals all fall into a category of "How did they do it?" They
all contain gigantic blocks of enormous weight, carried to
impossible heights and difficult locations. Even modern cranes would
find such constructions hard to replicate. But none of this is
impossible if one is dealing with stones that can be triggered to
react against gravity and Earth magnetism, somehow pushing away and
thereby reducing their physical weight.
It has been noticed in Templar constructions,
Chartres Cathedral in
particular, that people walk taller inside the buildings than they
do outside. They actually stand more erect ópushing upwards, so to
speakó in the confines of these magical edifices.
AM: Why did
the Church oppose the Templars?
LG: If they were capable of such techniques, if they knew about
monatomic elements and gravity, and if they also had the
Ark of the
Covenant, itís hardly surprising that they became feared by
and the European monarchs. Their patron, St Bernard, was a
Cistercian abbot and, apart from the cathedrals, loads of Cistercian
abbeys were also constructed during the same era. So there is no
doubt that the Templar/Cistercian building methods were fast as well
as awesome. Itís also apparent why the Catholic Church was so
resentful of the monks of Bernardís Order, who eventually linked up
with the more ancient Celtic Church in Scotland.
They were in the final throes of building the cathedrals when the
Papal decree went out against them in 1307. They were kicked out of
France and the rest of Europe, and under papal edict were to be
persecuted in all Catholic countries. England was predominantly
Catholic at that time, but Scotland wasnítóso many of the Templars
went to Scotland under the protection of Robert the Bruce. In 1317
he established a new Order as a cover for Templars when traveling
abroad. They were known as the Elder Brethren of the Rosy Cross. It
was the original Rosicrucian fraternity.
AM: I see from your website that you belong to the
of St Anthony. What kind of role do the Templars play in our world
LG: The Knights Templar of St Anthony is the oldest legitimate
historical order of Templars still in operation. It was founded for
Mary Queen of Scots when she came to Scotland after being Queen of
France, and is still under the protectorate of the Royal House of
Stuart. In the reign of Maryís son, King James VI, they built
Jamesís Hospital in Edinburgh and The Royal Hospital at Leith.
essence, they were a socially orientated fraternity with Scottish
interests at heart. Itís much the same today, really. The Order is
still concerned with Scottish traditions, culture, education and
SPECULATION ON THE ARKíS RESTING PLACE
AM: So when the Pope hounded the Templars out of France in 1307, did
they take the Ark of the Covenant with them to Scotland or
LG: The last historical record of the
Ark is at Chartres Cathedral,
where a relief inscription on an entrance pillar says, "The Ark of
the Covenant was yielded from here". There is no record of it ever
having left that place. It was not buried there, taken from there or
sent anywhere from there. The word used is "yielded", which means
"given up" or "let go". I have discussed this aspect of the Arkís
Lost Secrets of the Sacred Ark and have presented an
hypothesis. It seems perhaps a little far-fetched but, knowing what
we now know about superconductors and monatomic elements, it is a
AM: You think it was moved into another dimension?
LG: Yes, I think so. And when you look at the cathedralís original
construction, the set-up could have been right for this.
Seventeenth-century documents from the Acadťmie FranÁaise and the
Royal Society in London relate that there was a great golden plate
in the middle of the famous Chartres labyrinth. Today there are just
the cut brass studs which held it in place. Also, there was a
magical stone of some sort in the roof space above it. This was lost
in the debris of the roof fire in 1836, but was originally placed
there for some specific purpose by the Templars. If it were perhaps
a stone of monatomic iridium crystal or some other energetic
superconductive device, it could well have been triggered to the
transition-group metal below in order to create a flux-tube portal
We know that the Ark
was a very powerful capacitor and, in
conjunction with monatomic elements (the manna placed in the
it could become a superconductor with its own Meissner field. Hence,
as detailed in the Torah and Talmud, it would levitate above the
ground. We also know from recent experiments with monatomic elements
that they can be heat-triggered to move out of our space-time.
Bringing these things all together, therefore, it is possible that
the Ark is still at Chartres, but simply not in our space-time ómaybe
"yielded", for want of a better term, into another parallel
AM: Things can actually be sent into other dimensions?
LG: Yes, and brought back.
Hal Puthoff, the director of the
Institute for Advanced Studies in Austin, Texas, wrote in a report
some years back that when particles begin to resonate in two
dimensions, they should lose 4/9ths of their weight [see "Gravity as
a Zero-point Fluctuation Force", Physical Review A 39(5), 1 March
Subsequent tests with monatomic elements revealed that they, too,
would lose 4/9ths of their weight during thermo-gravimetric
analysis. With increased heating, the weight would reduce to
absolute zero óat which point they disappeared altogether. On
subsequent cooling, however, they would return to a visible state.
We know, therefore, that itís possible to transport matter into
other dimensions. What we donít know is the key to unlocking the
Ark óif indeed it is there to be unlocked. Maybe it was triggered by
a sound wave, maybe a light wave; but either way we would need to
know the resonance frequency. As I said, itís just an hypothesis,
but it is a possibility. In a way, itís the sort of thing that
and others are now working on with regard to the teleportation of
matter, as we discussed earlier.
Interestingly, Royal Arch Freemasonry óor
Royal Ark, as it used to
beó is firmly centered on the traditional mystery of a sacred keystone
and a golden plate.
ARCANE KNOWLEDGE AND SECRET SOCIETIES
AM: Is Arch the same as
LG: In a certain context, yes. The Greek word ark, meaning
"gathering box", is arc in English and arche in French. The Oxford
Word Library defines the word ark as an obsolete form of the modern
English word arc. It was equivalent to the Latin arca, a "chest",
"box" or "coffer". Archaeology was about a quest for the
Storage places are called archives. Ancient mysteries are called
arcane. Ark-based construction, as used by the Templars, became
known as architecture, from which we also get arch, architrave, etc.
Masonic lore was based on arcane architectural geometry, and the
term Royal Arch or Ark stemmed from this.
In Lost Secrets of the Sacred Ark, Iíve included a
color plate of
Templars in 1147, twenty years after they returned from Jerusalem.
The painting, from the Ch‚teau de Versailles, depicts them with
Ark of the Covenant at the Paris Chapter House.
AM: An idea that goes round a lot is that the world is really ruled
by secret societies. What do you think of that?
LG: I donít really see that as being the case. There are societies,
fraternities and establishments which are secretive, and many of our
prominent leaders belong to them, but I donít see the groups
themselves as running anything. They just provide venues of mutual
interest at which to meet. For example, one might say that numerous
of our governors are Freemasons. By implication, therefore, we are
governed by Freemasonsóbut that does not mean their individual or
combined lodges control the world. They do not. I know many
politicians who are members of the British Library and indeed often
meet there. But that does not mean we are ruled by a cabal of book
readers. I have been a Freemason and a British Library member, but
Iíve never controlled anyone.
AM: So, are you a Freemason?
LG: Not any more. For many years I was affiliated with the City of
London financial sector, and it was part of the scene to belong to a
City lodge. It was just the same as being expected to fraternize in
this or that wine bar. Business and trades people do much the same
at a provincial level, belonging to the local Rotary Club, Round
Table or whatever. They all provide venues for those with common
interests, but these associations do not run the world óeven if some
of their individual members have a hand in that regard. If a Scout
leader happens to run someone down in his car, it doesnít mean that
the Scouts are training terrorists! It simply doesnít work that way.
Anyway, after some twenty years in
Freemasonry, I resigned in
1984ómainly because I got thoroughly bored with it all. I had
expected to learn such a lot, but actually learned nothing of much
consequence except how to perform ceremonial ritual. I suppose if
one wants somewhere to be every Monday night and a group of people
to be with, then it provides a suitably fraternal environment. But,
in the end, I found better things to do.
All I really discovered in terms of "secrets" was that their biggest
secret is that theyíve forgotten what their secrets are! Even the
ritual maintains that the true secrets of the Craft were lost long
ago. What I never experienced was anything covert in the way that
one imagines a secret society. So, either it wasnít there, or it was
very cleverly concealed from me for twenty years.
There are, however, secretive aspects of government that I really
donít like. Elected politicians are supposed to represent and report
to their electorate, not keep secrets from them.
the Bilderberg Group, for example. Industrialists, bankers and
whoever are perfectly entitled to meet and discuss things which they
are not required to disclose publicly afterwards. We all have such
meetings in our daily lives, but donít feel the need to broadcast
everything weíve discussed with our colleagues.
What I object to is that our elected representatives do attend such
meetings, but then consider their electorate irrelevant óperhaps
keeping secret certain information which they should pass on. Maybe
they feel that insider knowledge gives them an edge for their power
base. But that really bothers me. Do they emerge in a position
whereby theyíre working for themselves and their colleagues, and not
necessarily for us? Iím pretty sure thatís often the case.
So, itís a matter of getting those in positions of elected influence
to recognize that their responsibility is to be servants of society
and not to lord it over society.
AM: How do you think that could be managed?
LG: We keep hearing these politicians issuing statements such as,
"And when we came to power..." Power! Who gave them power? They
represent us. We appoint them. We pay their salaries. I think the
whole political structure needs to be reviewed. Throughout the
so-called democratic world, we have allowed a reversal of the way
things are supposed to be. We ask for guardianship, protection and
economic management, but they give us laws, restrictions and
controls. They totally ignore national written constitutions which
"belong" to the people and whose terms and conditions they are
supposed to uphold.
But whose fault is that? It is our fault. We have allowed it to
happen. What we have to understand is that the politicians will not
change unless we make them change. Itís our car, and they are our
chauffeurs. What we want is an adequate ride, not to be told how to
Nor do we want them keeping secrets ólike, weíre going to run out of
gas at the next turn. But, as I said, they wonít change voluntarily
from a position that suits them. We have to change them by making
our demands fully apparent.
FROM DIANA TO THE KABBALAH AND BEYOND
AM: What do you think of the
Paul Burrell book about Princess Diana
thatís recently come out?
LG: Iíve read some of it. And Iíve read bits and pieces
in the press. From what I can see, there doesnít seem to be much
thatís new or unexpected. What is interesting is that itís coming
from a close-to-home, in-house perspective rather than from an
AM: Do you think Burrell is telling the truth?
LG: I have no reason to doubt it. I donít see that he has any
particular, underhand motive. I think perhaps, if he had been
treated differently by the Establishment, he might have thought
twice about some of the content. But, under the circumstances, he
clearly decided to publish anyway. Iíve not seen anything
particularly offensive against the Royal Family in his work. In
fact, itís taken the edge off things to some extent. Many people
were looking quite harshly at Prince Philip, for example, whereas,
according to Burrell, Philipís relationship with Diana wasnít that
What I do like about Burrellís book is that it has, once again,
prevented the Princess from being conveniently airbrushed from the
historical scene, as many would prefer.
AM: So thatís the
Burrell book. How would you describe your own
LG: I feel that, because of what I research and write, I have a
particular responsibility to the readers of my work. This means that
when I discover interesting or important things I feel obliged to
pass on the information. So thatís my primary consideration. Apart
from the fact that I enjoy my work, I have the advantage of being a
totally free agent. I am not running for any office, nor bound to
any masteróso the only people I need to please are my readers.
AM: Where do you do all your research? Is it all publicly available?
LG: Thereís very little that isnít publicly available. And if it
isnít, I make it publicly available by writing it. The main problem
is not lack of accessibility, but of how easily accessible some
things might be. I might find something thatís available in some
monastery in Tibet óso itís publicly available, but how accessible is
that for you? Researching and writing is what I do, just like other
people are lawyers, carpenters or whatever. So, I just get stuck in
and work at it, following the leads like a detective of sorts,
trying to discover "who done it and to whom".
AM: Do you have any idea what youíre going to do next?
LG: Each book in my Grail series has been designed to answer the
most asked questions that arose from the previous one. So Iíll be
continuing on the same basis. Iíve been traveling a lot during past
months, but am planning to write the next book this year. In
previous editions, I have dealt with Grail-related religion,
history, mythology and science. The next book will look more closely
at philosophies such as the Grail Code and Kabbalah. Also, a lot has
happened on various scientific fronts since I wrote Lost Secrets, so
Iíll be including some updates in this regard and very possibly
getting back into some of the sacred geometry that I introduced in
the first edition of Bloodline of the Holy Grail.
Right now, however, I am currently involved with the making of a
Hollywood movie based on Lost Secrets of the Sacred Ark. We are
casting now and should begin shooting in the summer, so that will be
pretty time-consuming this year. It has also been suggested that I
should write a novel to parallel the film. So thatís another
possibility if I have the time.
AM: What kind of film is it?
LG: The Hollywood Reporter has classified it as a "sci-fi
adventure", which just about sums it up. Itís an action thriller,
based essentially in modern Los Angeles, but embodies many
scientific aspects from Lost Secrets: time warping, parallel
dimensions and the like. In general terms, it concerns the
historical and current aspects of monatomic elements, but within the
wrap of a fictional story.
AM: Can you tell us anything about the story?
LG: Thereís a related page on my website, with a link to the
production companyís site. Basic information and progress updates
are being posted as we go. Currently, thereís a scene-setting video
trailer online, prepared by Living Element Pictures of Los Angeles,
but this will be replaced with something more directly
representative in time.
The film is currently under the working title,
The Christian, and
the basic format for the story is given as follows [he reads from a
promotional poster]: "Since the inception of the DNA Crime Lab in
San Diego, California, over 592 crimes have been solved by DNA
match. But one puzzling case remains a mystery. May 16, 2003óa
30-year-old white male, identified only as Chris Doe, was arrested
on burglary charges in LA County and later released on $1,000 bail.
Chris Doe has a positive DNA match to the Shroud of Turin. He is now
wanted for questioning by the authorities and by the scientific
AM: I read an interesting book called
The Second Messiah, which says
that the image on the Shroud of Turin is really of Jacques de Molay.
LG: Thatís a book by Christopher Knight and
Robert Lomas óone of a
number of suggestions about the Shroud. Others reckon it might be
Leonardo da Vinci. Various ideas have been put forward over the
years, but the traditional view is that the Shroud was the burial
cloth of Jesus. The weave of the cloth and the type of material are
certainly old enough, and pollen has been found embedded which is
undoubtedly Syrian. At present, no one really knows the true origin
of the Shroud, and even scientists argue about various aspects of
For our film purposes, however, we are concerned only with the
analysis of the blood embedded in the cloth, and with the blood
group. These have been specifically identified, and the DNA tests
were done in the 1990s at the University of Texas. The information
is actually held on file by the San Diego DNA Crime Lab, so it ties
in rather well with our screenplay.
In a recent email about this film project, Laurence said:
going well to the extent that the film producers have now also
optioned my other three books. It rather looks now as if screenplays
will become very much a part of my life as well as writing books."