Jeff Rense ~
Hi once again, everybody. A great program for you tonight as we
always try to put information up for you to entertain with and
to help expand your mind. Of all the extraordinary guests weíve
had in the four years Iíve done this program certainly no one
has created more of a reaction from our listening audience than
Englandís intelligent, articulate author and modern day global
Paul Revere, David Icke. Davidís appearances here have
always left people talking and thinking and tonight weíre going
to go on another expedition into the world of government
coverup and control of the human mind with David Icke
who has been traveling half way around the world researching,
talking, and listening since we last visited with him. That
visit with David coming up in one hour here at Sightings
on the Radio.
Jeff Rense ~ Welcome to hour two of Sightings on the
Radio. One of the topics covered here from time to time is the
issue of government coverup and weíre going to
take a close look at the highest level of research tonight with
a gentleman Iíve known for some time now, David Icke. He
is quite a fellow. Of all the extraordinary guests Iíve ever had
on the program nobody has created more of a reaction from our
listeners than probably Englandís David Icke. He is, of
course, very articulate, eloquent, personable, charming,
sophisticated, and most informally, I would say.... well, heís
One of the most mysterious aspects of our society as many of you
would agree, I think, is the control and conditioning of people
through the mass media. Weíve been talking about that a bit
tonight already and many other means as well. Few of us really
understand how that is done. The control of people is exerted
through the entire gamut of our social fabric from the mind game
to mass media entertainment, from TV to the movies.
David Icke, spelled I-C-K-E in case youíre wondering is a
former BBC correspondent, an author and a
lecturer, and he is back again in the U.S. after a series of
seminars promoting his publications, his books most notably and
most recently entitled "...And the Truth Shall Set You Free"
already tagged by more than a few reviewers as maybe the
most explosive book of the twentieth century. David Icke,
are you there?
David Icke ~ Jeff?
Jeff Rense ~ How are you?
David Icke ~ Well, after an introduction like that I
think Iíll quit while Iím ahead, you know!
Jeff Rense ~ Well, okay. Weíll see you next time. Well,
where have you been?
David Icke ~ Oh, my goodness. Everywhere. Since the turn
of the year Iíve been in eight countries. Iíve come into America
via Iceland. Iím sort of getting everywhere these days. It is
fascinating to see whatever country I go into no matter what the
culture or background is, two things are happening. First of
all, there is a spiritual awakening going on. Not a religious
awakening, but a spiritual awakening. People
are beginning to open their eyes and their minds to the greater
picture of who they are and the nature of life itself. And the
other thing thatís happening is that people are beginning to
open their minds to maybe the world is not quite what weíre led
to believe by the mantra messages that pound at us all the time
giving us a very narrow and I would suggest a very flawed and
distorted view of whatís actually happening in the world.
Jeff Rense ~ These mantra messages that come out to us
all the time can take the form of advertising jingles to popular
music. They are literally wrote after a period of time. They are
memorized involuntarily by most people. Theyíre in there and
they influence people in ways that the average person would
never figure out.
David Icke ~ Absolutely. I mean, Iím sitting here in
Atlanta where Iím talking at two almost simultaneous
conferences. One is about mind control and Satanic ritual
abuse which people have suffered. And the two go
together because trauma is a tremendous form of mind control
including on a mass scale. Itís been shown very clearly that a
traumatized mind is much more open to suggestion so when we have
horrendous, mass traumatizing events like Oklahoma
or what we had in Scotland, Dunblaine, when the guy went into
school with a gun. That really does traumatize the mass
consciousness and makes them more open to suggestion. Whatís
interesting that you can actually observe, Jeff, is it
doesnít matter if youíre looking at... what weíre looking at
here, weíre talking about mind control and emotional
manipulation and thatís not an exaggeration.
What is mind control? It is getting someone to
think and therefore behave the way you want them to. Now under
that criteria virtually everyone on the planetís mind
controlled. And if you look at the way itís done. Iíve done a
hell of a lot of research in the last year into individual mind
control and stuff and thatís continuing here where Iím not even
talking but listening very intently to what other people are
saying and what people have experienced.
But if you look at what actually happens. If you look at
MK-ULTRA and other mind control projects around the
world in the last few decades and you look at the basis of
what happens. You individually mind control someone by wiping
them clean of their sense of individuality, their sense of self,
their sense of uniqueness, their sense of filtering, their
sense of questioning, their sense of coming to their truth. You
want them to come to your version of reality. You then replace
that blank sheet of paper, if you like, with the personality
that you want which is a reactive personality which will react
to certain stimulae as soon as you provide that, the reaction
will be exactly as planned.
You go to the next level and you look at what they do when you
go into the military all over the world. What theyíre doing from
day one is seeking to wipe you clean of your sense of self, your
sense of individuality, your sense of questioning, your sense of
uniqueness, your sense of coming to your truth. They want a
"Yes, Sir!" personality who will just start shooting at
people theyíve never met and have done nothing to them because
some guy in a cap shouts, "Shoot!".
And then you go to the mass level and exactly the same is
happening. We are being conditioned from birth to give up our
right to think for ourselves, to come to our own
conclusions, to express our uniqueness, and to conform to a herd
mentality which is basically a reactive mentality. If you look
at some of the mass mind controlling techniques
and emotional manipulation techniques, youíre
actually looking at stimulae which are designed to get a
And this happens all the time. If they can get you angry, if
they can get you resentful, if they can get you to feel guilty,
they got you because youíre going to react to events or
statements or things that happen in the world which theyíre
setting upon a way that they want you to because, of course,
this is now a science, the manipulation of the mass
consciousness. This organization in London called
Tavistock Institute of Human Relations which
links into Stanford and other places around the
world. Well, thereís literally just... looking at how the mass
consciousness reacts in certain circumstances so they know that
if that stimulae will get that reaction when we need that
reaction, weíll just pull that stimulae. It becomes a very, you
know, cause and effect thing.
Jeff Rense ~ We used to call it íbrainwashingí.
You know, you talk all the time on this program and wherever you
speak on our sense of uniqueness, our sense of filtering, our
sense of individual expression being perhaps the most important
thing as individuals and thatís the number one target of mass
merchandisers, marketing, advertising, whether theyíre trying to
condition people to buy candy bars, buy a specific soft drink,
or vote for a certain candidate itís the exact same technique.
It always struck me as rather sad that even in high schools or
even junior high or elementary schools, basic human motivation
is not being taught. I guess that would tend to let the cat out
of the bag.
David Icke ~ Yeah, and I think, you know, weíre actually
at the heart here of how this planet is controlled by a few
people because it has to be done through the mind and the
emotions because you canít do it physically. Itís just
impossible with too many people. And if you look at it, whatís
happened is that we have actually out sheeped the sheep now. We
laugh at sheep when they follow the one out front and then they
succumb to the fear of the sheep dog and stuff like that. Weíve
actually gone one step further than the sheep because weíve
dispensed of the sheep dog. We police each other.
This means that all you have to do to set the foundations of
running the entire planet in terms of its direction to be able
to control via the education system or what passes for it and
the mantra messages through the media and therefore on through
that to peer pressure where one conditioned group imposes its
conditioning on other groups because itís become a crime to be
And this sets the limits of normal thought behavior and what
have you in the world and because most people just follow the
norms like sheep following the one in front, the baa-baa
mentality and others who question the norms but are terrified of
saying so because they fear the reaction of people around them.
That combination of the baa-baa mentality which accounts for the
majority of sheep and the fear mentality which accounts for the
minority of the dumb media they conform are exactly the two
states of being that control the mass consciousness and turn
five billion unique aspects of infinity into a two legged
bewildered herd which is what weíve become. And then, of course,
you go one step further and you ask, "Who polices the herd?"
Well, the herd polices itself because in whatever area of
our lives weíre talking about, if youíre different then
you are inviting ridicule and condemnation for that what is now
Jeff Rense ~ You know, all you have to do, David,
is go to any elementary school and watch quietly and youíll see
it at work. If one child acts a little differently, he or she
becomes the object of ridicule and teasing instantly.
David Icke ~ Exactly. Because it is the herd mentality.
And many teachers in the education community have not got a clue
that theyíre actually not teachers but indoctrinators. I spoke
in Australia earlier this year and I was standing is this
lecture theatre in Melbourne waiting to start, just sort of
pondering and stuff, and it became very obvious. I just looked
at the scene. In front of me was a bank of people sitting in the
seats and the desks were right there writing their stuff down.
And Iím looking at a free energy machine called education which
just indoctrinates one generation with the knowledge of the
Jeff Rense ~ Yeah, let me ask you to hold it right there,
David, if you will. We have to take our first break. Then
weíll come right back and pick it up right there with my guest
tonight for the second two hours of Sightings on the Radio,
David Icke. Iím Jeff Rense and this is the
Premiere Radio network.
Jeff Rense ~
Weíre back and weíre talking with David Icke who is in
Atlanta tonight. A globetrotter if there ever was one. David,
you were into a story about watching people in Australia down in
Melbourne. Please go ahead with that.
David Icke ~ Yeah. I was sort of standing in front of
this assembled group. It hit me that I was looking at a free
energy machine, an indoctrination machine because, I donít know,
about three or four times a day, someone would walk in front of
those people, students in a lecture theatre. And how many
lecture theatres are in the world. Millions and millions and
millions. And this happens in all of them everyday.
And the person standing there is a professor of something or
other who has become a professor because he has spent his entire
carrier telling the system what it wanted to hear otherwise he
wouldnít have progressed to become one. He then gives the
assembled students of the next generation what he has been
indoctrinated to tell them. And they write it all down and
if they donít tell the exam paper what heís told them then they
donít pass and progress within the system either. And then the
whole thing goes into the next generation and so on and so
So itís basically complete nonsensism. My goodness me. At least
in the area of history are taught total total bunkom. It just
gets passed on from generation to generation. The pressure is
just tell the system what it wants to hear or the system will
kick you out.
And, you know, my son is fifteen back in England and he has
trouble with the teachers at his school because he will not be
indoctrinated. He does terrible things like ask them questions
and ask them to justify what theyíre telling him he should
believe. And a few weeks ago I just sent a little note saying
why he had been away one afternoon and I said, "Maybe it might
have been good for him to get away from being indoctrinated and
told what to wear and what to think," because in this school
they sent around a letter to parents saying that for next term,
boys should not come to school with shirts that have two pockets
in them. They must only have one.
I mean, talk about turning out clones. The next generation. And
I mentioned in this letter that I thought an afternoon off from
being brainwashed might be a beneficial thing for him and the
teacher came on the phone the next day and talked to my wife
--unfortunately, I wasnít there -- and completely agasped that
anyone should think that indoctrinationís going on. And twenty
minutes later after sheíd finished explaining how the education
system works to a teacher, he realized that actually
indoctrination was going on and he hadnít even thought about it.
Jeff Rense ~ Hmmm. Well, you made a small chip there.
David Icke ~ But itís... what Iím saying here, Jeff.
The point Iím making is that most people who are serving this
system of indoctrinization...
Jeff Rense ~ They have no idea.
David Icke ~ ... have no idea theyíre doing it.
Jeff Rense ~ No. Theyíre part of the machine and they
donít see it. Theyíre standing right in the middle of it. The
issue of peer pressure, herd mentality. Honestly, in the last
couple of years, I have seen some things that are amazing to me.
What we are seeing now is a syndrome of almost mass mutilation.
Iím talking about the piercing of the human body. Nose. Tongue.
Lips. Other areas that you canít see unless youíre at the beach
and then areas that you canít see even then. If I see any more
people open their mouth with three or four studs in their
tongue, you know, Iím just going to roll out of here. Itís
getting to the point now where these people are absolutely doing
everything possible short of cutting off an ear. I donít know
where itís going, but that and tattoos and then they also have
something called branding which is actually the searing of the
skin. So where is this coming from? This self degradation.
David Icke ~ Well, I think that there are a lot of things
going on which even people who have researched into mind control
and manipulation donít even appreciate. You really got to go
back into ancient history and pick this whole
stream of control up and Iíve done a heck of a lot of research
in the last year into this and Iím just about to start writing a
book telling the story from ancient times right up to the
present day. And you can actually chart indeed right back to the
1200-1300ís and a group called the Knights Templar
at the time of the Crusades. You can chart this
controlling force back quite comfortably to that point and
increasingly beyond that. Basically what you find is that there
has always been a level of knowledge which has been held by the
few and kept out of the public arena.
Years ago, centuries ago, it was maps of the world, for
instance. One of things that people didnít realize didnít
existed as I show in my books and Iíll show in greater detail in
Christopher Columbus wasnít
looking for India and then tripped over and then found the
Americas. He knew it was here. He was connected to something
called the Knights of Christ. His father-in-law
was a member of this secret society in Portugal which was based
in Portugal. The Knights of Christ were just
another name for the Knights Templar who had been
purged in France in 1307 by the king of France. By that time
they rivaled the Roman Church for wealth and
influence which history has kind of written them out. They were
fantastically powerful and indeed the banking system we have
today is pretty much come from their structure.
You also then follow another group of Templars who
got out of France and they went up to Scotland and reemerged as the Scottish Rite of
Freemasonry which today pervades the banking system,
the political system, the business system of the world,
etcetera. So right back there there was knowledge held which was
not available in the public arena. And this goes back to ancient
times. And some of this knowledge relates to mind control,
knowledge of what consciousness is, because the ancients knew
far more than we ever believed.
And incidentally I was in a church up in Scotland
a few weeks ago earlier this month called Rosslyn Chapel
and which was actually built by the Sinclair family which
became the Scottish Sinclair family, a family which are
at the heart of this Knights Templar secret
society. And youíll see in the stone work and Iíve seen
it myself things like sweet corn plants and cactus plants that
were only found in America. And that church and that stone were
done considerably before Columbus left to quote ífind the
Americasí. So thereís so much in history alone that we donít
This knowledge has obviously been passed through the upper
levels of the secret society network while at the same time
through this period of history weíre looking at, this same force
has created institutions in the public arena like
Roman Church and various other institutions to take the
knowledge out. And if you look at what happened with the
British Empire and such like Britain and particularly
Germany and London, are at the heart at this global manipulation
at the secret society level. When the European people came to
America, they basically destroyed it as it was the Native
American culture. They took that knowledge out of wide
circulation. When the Spanish went to Central
and South America, they did exactly the same. When the
British went to Australia and New Zealand,
they did the same. When the Europeans went to
Africa, they did the same. Knowledge of many things were
taken out of circulation. And as it went out of circulation more
and more, the people at the top of the pyramid horded that
knowledge, and it significantly applies to the nature of
consciousness and how to manipulate it, what it is, etcetera,
Jeff Rense ~ Are we at an all time low, David, in
terms of accessible knowledge vis a vis the mass of
humanity even though we have such things as the internet now
beginning to turn that around but in general when you are at the
mercy of the mass media in this country, is our knowledge base
David Icke ~ Well, I think itís desperately low but
improving the more that people stand up and speak out which is
happening more and more now. And thatís fantastic. And
peoplesí minds are becoming more open. Not the
majority yet but more are becoming more open to other
things to try to explain the apparently unexplained things that
go on in the world. But, I think that all over one side is
played up against the other. There is in the Christian
world this idea that there is such a thing as good and
bad knowledge. So something that is different to the norm is
considered "the occult Itís the devil" when itís just
the negative use of knowledge. Knowledge can be used positively
or negatively and weíre throwing out the baby with the bath
water here, I think, with some of this condemnation of knowledge
which is actually the way out of here.
Jeff Rense ~ Yes, indeed. David Icke is my guest
and weíll be right back to talk with David about many
things. Weíll be right back.
Jeff Rense ~ David, in our first hour we had a
chat with Susan Michaels and a gentleman called in and
just couldnít believe there was any kind of a conspiracy. Iím
not belittling that. A lot of people agree with him that there
could not be a conspiracy in the mainstream media to keep the
UFO issue hidden and to actually foment, perpetrate,
and underwrite a fifty year coverup. He said it would be
too big of a secret to keep. The average person doesnít
understand that íthe governmentí, weíll put that in
quotes, is perfectly capable of keeping secrets over long
periods of time and yet the evidence to sustain that concept is
David Icke ~ Well, I think, I heard someone say today at
one of these conferences that governments donít have to keep big
secrets because secrets keep themselves. They have to keep
little secrets. The reason the big secrets keep
themselves is because if you can condition into someone a
certain view of reality which is light years away from the
truth, if the truth does actually come out no one believes it
because itís so far from the conditioned view of reality that
youíve taken on. So big lies, big secrets, they tend to
take care of themselves because no one believes them. "Oh,
no, mate! Thatís too far fetched!" The idea of the
presidents of the United States and leading politicians in
Britain are abusing mind control children as young as 1-2-3. I
mean, that is so far from peoplesí reality, and more than that,
so far from peoplesí desires to accept it, because it says so
much about the world and what have you, that people go into
denial about it, so the big secrets keep themselves.
I have come across actually, talking about the UFO
thing, an interesting quote which was given to me in England
just before I came out here and I havenít had a chance to check
it. But certainly the basis of it seems certainly plausible to
me in my research. A quote by Henry Kissinger which a
Swiss delegate was supposed to have written down at
meeting, this secret, semi-secret organization.
Jeff Rense ~ Oh, I know this quote. Yeah, I know. If itís
true, itís a powerhouse.
David Icke ~ Yeah. About the U.N. troops and stuff.
Jeff Rense ~ Pretty good, if you have it.
David Icke ~ Well, I will. Iíve got it here, but I think,
that the point I made a number of times when weíve talked to
each other, Jeff, and I think is a vital one to keep ramming
home, is this idea of Problem-Reaction-Solution.
Create the problem. Get the reaction. Offer the solution.
And I must say. I have started to look at this UFO
thing and I donít have a problem with the existence of extraterrestrials. I mean, the idea that weíre the only
species that exists is so ludicrous. I mean, you know, come wake
me up, mother. Anyone can try and get us to believe that, but I
think the whole subject can be manipulated especially as we have
our pyramid again with knowledge at the top and the people in
ignorance of that knowledge in the rest of the pyramid.
And I think that particularly applies to the UFO
thing. And I actually started to look. And suddenly thereís all
this suppression of stuff, UFOís and
extraterrestrials and what have you. And yet now
suddenly through Hollywood and other mass audience programs,
weíve had the same prime time in Britain recently, this whole
UFO thing starts to come out. A lot of it has been
fear based. And, you know, Hollywood is one of the greatest
forms of global mind manipulation. I mean, you ask a lot of
people in the world for their version of history and various
historical events and theyíll give you Hollywoodís version. I
remember during the Fifties and Sixties when I was a kid, we
used to have cowboys and indians films on the telly every Sunday
and it indoctrinated people to a totally misrepresented view of
actually what happened in that period like...
Jeff Rense ~ You know, Iíve made that point before that
Hollywood is by and large responsible for much of the commonly
held views of American history. Hollywood basically invented
David Icke ~ Absolutely. And what weíve got here is a
quote from Henry Kissinger that is appearing to be using
this UFO, this fear of an extraterrestrial
invasion etcetera, as a Problem-Reaction-Solution
scenario. Yet the problem, even if it is a manufactured one like
this, you get the reaction ísomething must be doneí and if you
can get the fear reaction, then youíve really got people and
then you offer the solution and as Iíve talked about and written
about many times one of the parts of the agenda that is
unfolding is the creation of a centralized world army and
central control and the Kissinger quote says this:
would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los
Angeles to restore order. Tomorrow they will be grateful.
This is especially true if they were told thereís an
outside threat from beyond whether real or promulgated
that threatened our very existence. It is then that all
peoples of the world will plead with world leaders to
deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man
fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario,
individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the
guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world
And itís a classic
Problem-Reaction-Solution scenario, this one. And,
of course, back in the Sixties there was a report called
report from Iron Mountain which was reported about
1966, it is said. And it was fifteen experts in various fields
that were asked to produce a report on how to centralize control
and manipulate the mass population without further recourse to
wars which is how it had been done up to that point.
And two of the things which they suggested was 1) a threat to
the global environment: global problem, global reaction which
allows you to offer your global solution. From 1968, two years
after that report was apparently finished, came
of Rome which is an organization set up by the very
people who are running this agenda. And we had the environmental
thing all the way through the last twenty years which has
actually used Problem-Reaction-Solution to get
penned global laws and what have you and the fear of the
environment. Now Iím not saying thereís not any environmental
problem. My question is,
"Why are the
people who are funding and fronting often the major global
environmental reports and events like the 1992 Earth
Summit in Brazil... Why is it the same people who
are quite demonstrably dismantling the worldís ecology?"
And another one of
the report from Iron Mountainís suggestions was,
back in the Sixties now, a threat from an extraterrestrial
force and I think we could be seeing that scenario
unfolding here as this myth is created that we should be
terrified of extraterrestrial invasion which will lead us to
give all of our power away to a world war cabinet and a global
army to exactly as Kissingerís quote says: to give our
power away in fear of what will happen.
Jeff Rense ~ Thatís a remarkable quote. Also the global
financial structure will be quickly retooled to underwrite one
basic financial currency and so on and so forth. This is all
coming. The debit card has now taken charge and is now rivaling
the credit card in this country. (David: Yeah.) Cashless
society. Itís not necessarily... itís almost a natural evolution
when you consider the history of this world for the last two
thousand years and as you have pointed out so many times the
basic same people or same power structure is in place today as
was 500-1000 years or even longer ago.
David Icke ~ Exactly. And when people donít do that
research, I understand it. They think, "Oh, come on!". But you
can chart it back. I mean, you know, it is there to be seen. And
I think that what is happening now is this awakening thatís
going on around the world and people are opening their eyes more
and more. I think this agenda is being pressed forward quicker
Jeff Rense ~ A lot of people agree with that, David.
Thereís a rush under way now to get it in place to create the
problem with as much fear as possible as quickly as possible.
Some people are suggesting it may be a combination of induced
earth changes. Environmental catastrophe could easily be
fomented in the media. Itís bad enough but then they can boost
it up. And then you introduce with holograms or hardware that we
probably have had for a number of years craft, ET
looking craft. It would be so easy to stampede people, itís not
David Icke ~ Oh, yeah. And if thereís anyone out there
whoís listening to this that thinks what youíve just said is
ludicrous, I would refer them to "War of the Worlds",
1938, I think it was, Orson Welles standing in a studio
claiming to be at the scene of a Martian landing. I think it was
in New Jersey and all hell broke loose where he was supposed to
be, but wasnít. And thereís no doubt in my mind anyway, having
talked to lots of people in various parts of the U.S. over the
last year or so, that the government do have what we call flying
Jeff Rense ~ And weíve had guests on the program,
David, very recently that say weíve had it for thirty years.
David Icke ~ I agree with that.
Jeff Rense ~ And what we have now is ultra advanced and
so forth and amazing quotes are popping up. We live in a wild
time. No doubt. David Icke, the guest. Weíll be back in
just a couple of minutes here at Sightings on the Radio.
Jeff Rense ~ And we are back and it is my pleasure to be
speaking to a friend of some duration, one of the most
provocative people Iíve ever met -- David Icke, author of
many books including his most recent best seller "....And
the Truth Shall Set You Free". Weíll give you the
number to order that book and find out about Davidís
other products and hear of his other books in just a few
minutes. Jim is on the line now calling in from
Everett-Seattle listening in on KRKO. Jim, youíre
on the air with David Icke. Go right ahead.
Caller - Thank you, Jeff. Thanks very much. And
David too. Question about the
Problem-Reaction-Solution scenario that you just
mentioned, David. A lot of talk about these created
events that are coming that are prophesied namely through remote
viewing. And thereís a gentleman who has talked about a problem
in North and South Korea of probable or possible war. I noticed
the network news are talking about that and this guy -- I donít
know if you want me to mention his name or not, but --
Jeff Rense ~ Go ahead, Jim. If he doesnít mind, we donít
Caller - Ed Dames.
Jeff Rense ~ Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Caller - Prominent, prominent remote viewer who talks
about the first use of a limited nuclear device in the North
Korea theatre as a result to spread mayhem and terror, and so
forth. And I just wondered if that sits into the scenario that
David talks about.
David Icke ~ It certainly does and Iíve been talking to
someone who would be aware of things that are going on in the
Middle East and he is absolutely convinced that there is a quote
íterroristí scenario there that involve some sort of an
explosion probably at the Mosque on Temple Mount -- of course,
that which held sacred by the Moslems but sacred by many other
religions too -- the supposed site of Solomonís Temple
and Herodís Temple and what have you. And, of
course, if something like that happened and it was put at the
hands of the Israelis then there would be a bloodbath in the
Middle East beyond words. And that would draw in Europe.
Now weíve already set the precedent here:
Problem-Reaction-Solution. Weíve gone from a U.N. peace
keeping into a NATO led peace keeping operation.
60,000 strong world army in Bosnia. And as Iíve pointed out in
talks with Jeff before. If you look at the main peace
negotiators in Bosnia from the start to the end of that
conflict, and I donít think weíve seen the end of it yet myself.
Youíre looking at, whether theyíre U.N. or
European Union appointed people, they are members of the
The Bildeberg, the
Trilateral Commission, the
Council on Foreign Relations,
the Royal Institute of International Affairs in
And thereís nothing that changes society more than a war and
thereís nothing that creates fear more than a war. So I think
this Korean thing certainly fits in. And I think that the China
card could well be played because for a long time we had the
cold war and what was kind of funny, I just come down from
speaking in Iceland and I actually spoke in Reikiavik right next to the house where Reagan and
Gorbochev met. You remember they talked about the
(unintelligible). Well, Iíll tell you what I found fascinating.
These people work with these energies and they know about the
Earth energy grid. They
know about astrological energies. They know about all stuff.
They never meet anywhere in anyplace at anytime unless it all
works out that way. And things like Freemasonic lodges
are actually built on vortex points on the Earth grid
and ley line points. And Iím speaking at this hall
in Reikiavik and on one side of the hall is the
main Masonic temple for Iceland and what thirty seconds walk
away on the other side is the house where Reagan and
So this whole Cold War thing was actually a
setup to create fear on both sides. And Iíve talked to some
people who actually were staggered to realize -- on the
peripheries, nothing like the top of the pyramid of the
Intelligence community, but enough to be in on this sort of
stuff -- but technological transfers were going on through the
Cold War from America to the Soviet Union to keep the parity so
the justification for more arms spending and fear was there. And
then, of course, then came the point in this agenda unfolding
where NATO and the European Union
were doing this agenda to start encompassing the countries of
the former Soviet Union. So, of course, we
couldnít have the evil empire anymore and this was part of what
Recuvich was about. We had to produce Gorbachev,
a close associate of
David Rockefeller and
Henry Kissinger, to start smiling a bit and become the first
Russian leader who didnít look like he had just come back from a
funeral and everyone sort of just got comfortable and the Berlin
Wall came down and suddenly the whole evil empire was
dismantled very, very quickly.
And then what has happened? NATO and the
European Union are talking about encompassing those
countries which basically leaves one major power left that could
be used as the Soviet Union was used before and
that is China. And I think that that and the fear
of the Muslim world which is an old one thatís
been predicted, actually could be played. Because I think that
what Jeff has said is absolutely right in that weíre
coming now to a point in this agenda where certain things
need to happen. People are waking up.
The challenge is coming into all this knowledge and actually the
agenda unfolding of what it is. And I think everything is going
to be thrown in the next few years to create and fear which will
just leave people in a position of where theyíll just say,
"Something must be done to stop this!" and theyíll accept
any solution. And that will be world army, world central
bank, world currency, world government, and a microchipped
population. And that starts the agenda.
Jeff Rense ~ Alright. Coming up on a break. Jimís
going to hang on. Weíll give you another shot here (David:
Thanks. Jeff Rense ~ Sure) right after this three minute
timeout here at Sightings on the Radio. My guest,
David Icke, and weíll be right back in just a couple moments
so stay with us.
Jeff Rense ~ Okay. We are back. Letís go back up to
Jim in Seattle listening in on KRKO. Go ahead.
One more question, Jim, if you like.
Caller - Thank you. David, weíve just got a few
minutes here and maybe take time after the break here at 8:00
and go on with this question, I hope, if you talk about it. Iíve
heard you speak about
the Federal Reserve (David:
Yes.) in the United States and the unique way that it mystifies
and hoodwinks the American public but especially when you talk
about in your unique way the national debt or the budget debate
as being nothing more than fresh air. And if you could elaborate
on that at great length I think the people listening would
Jeff Rense ~ You know, why donít we do this. Letís do
that money story. Itís a lengthy story as Jim said. Weíre
gonna start on it now, but youíve got some great lines, David,
and thatís really the mechanism by which this whole thing is
held together and manipulated. Itís money and the fact that
every individual needs it.
David Icke ~ Yeah. I tell ya, and we go back to what we
were talking about teachers earlier. I spoke in Vancouver
earlier this year and when I was talking about this I noticed
one guy got up and left at the back of the theatre. And after I
was finished the guy who put up the whole meeting, he said, "You
upset a friend of mine." I said, "Really? In what way?" He said,
"When you were talking about the money, and how money didnít
exist, and what a great con it was, and that weíre actually
paying interest on fresh air, he walked out because he said it
doesnít work like that." And I said, "How does it work?" And he
couldnít really tell me. He says, "But Iíll tell you what that
guy does for a living. Heís an economist. Heís advising
people on the economy and on money etcetera in Vancouver
And he doesnít know how moneyís created. Weíre told first of all
that governments print money. Thatís the thing weíre led to
believe. They donít. Moneyís created in a very simple way.
Itís by private banks owned by the same people issuing non
existent money called credit. And so you go to a bank and
theyíll give you a loan, say a hundred grand, but all they do at
that point is not print any paper or mint any coins or move any
precious metals a single inch. They just type into your account
$100,000. Thatís all they do. So from that moment on youíre
paying interest on $100,000 thatís just figures on a screen. And
what weíve actually done is give complete control over the
creation of money to private banks, which as I show and as
others have shown, are actually under control by the same
Now if you look, what is the difference between a boom and a
bust, itís one thing. During a boom thereís abundance, jobs,
etc. Thatís when thereís enough units in circulation to allow
economic activity to take place that allows that to happen. When
we have a bust or depression, the only difference between that
and a boom is the number of units of exchange in circulation is
far less therefore thereís not enough money to go around to
exchange for goods and services and create that economic
activity. The people who decide how many units of exchange are
in circulation or not, in other words whether we have a boom or
a bust, are those banks who decide if theyíre going to let lots
of loans go at low interest or not many loans at high interest.
And, of course, the Federal Reserve, this European
owned fascist organization, set interest rates in this country.
So basically, you have a boom. You get people in debt and all
that stuff. And then you have a bust and you reap all the wealth
of all the bankruptcies and what have you. The real wealth.
Land. Buildings. Businesses. And you get that in exchange for
Jeff Rense ~ And then you set it up and start all over
again. When we continue David Icke will talk about how
banks can loan money. And you say banks canít loan more money
than they have on deposit, can they? Well, weíre going to talk
about fractional banking and all of that as we continue here at
Sightings on the Radio here tonight with Englandís David Icke.
And weíll be back after the news.
Jeff Rense ~ And we are back, talking with Englandís
David Icke whose book "...And the Truth Shall Set You
Free" is considered to be a very dangerous book by some
people. We were talking about banking and the money game and it
is the biggest and probably oldest game there is. When you go
into a bank and ask for a loan and you qualify, whatever
qualify means anymore, youíre given a certain amount of
money. But are you? Are you given anything? No. Simply digits
are changed in your bank account so to speak or a check is cut
to you. Again all numbers. What are the rules, the alleged
rules, David, that a bank has to follow in order to make
loans to the public about money on deposit and assets and so
David Icke ~ Well, there is virtually none now. I mean,
as a rule of thumb, you could say that they have to have ten
percent of what they loan but in truth they often need far less
than that. We go back to this whole scenario. The Knights
Templar and the 1200-1300ís, they started loaning people
money that didnít exist and then charging interest on it. Going
back that far. You can go back to Babylon and the
ancient world and find the same thing.
And itís always been used as a form of control because if
you can get people in debt, you have got them under control. You
can have companies all over the world, and small businesses
particularly, having to pay back interest on money that doesnít
exist, loans to the bank to keep the businesses going then you
are for a start inflating the price of every single product that
is sold because everyone in the production process of that
product, from making it, to transporting it, to marketing it, to
selling it, is adding extra to their cost to service interest on
money that doesnít exist which they borrowed. So that
combination of people in debt and higher prices than
necessary means youíre pressuring people to serve your system to
earn the money to pay these prices youíre inflating and this
debt that youíre creating.
And this can be seen in America and all over the world at the
government level where fantastic amounts of taxpayersí money
every year is going straight into the coffers of the
Federal Reserve banks to pay back interest on fresh
air. People go hungry and people go homeless. I mean, this
is such a con itís unbelievable. Itís possible because America,
like Britain, is a one party state. If you at whether the
Republicans or whether the Democrats are in, or the Labor or
Conservative in Britain, the same agenda keeps unfolding.
And this agenda is for the global centralization of power at a
very, very complete level. And fundamental to that is control of
money because that controls peoplesí ability to purchase,
ability to live their lives.
So if you go back to the time of William of Orange in
Britain who was brought over to be king of England by a
secret society among others called the Orange
Order from Holland, when itís the Orange Order who is
very much involved in the conflict, and what have you, in
northern Ireland to this day. And what William of Orange
was brought over to do was to create the Bank of England.
And he signed a charter. I think it was in 1964. And this
banking system started to motor. And the Federal Reserve,
of course, as it has been well documented, was actually created
by European bankers not least the
House of Rothschild.
And what governments can do because theyíre the government is
print its own money interest free and put it into circulation
interest free so that money takes on its positive aspect which
is as a unit of exchange for exchanging contributions to
society. What happens, however, because the people that are
controlling the politicians own the banks. Governments borrow
money from private banking cartels and pay interest on it.
íAll this interest....this national debt.í Excuse me? Itís
fresh air. It doesnít exist. íWe must reduce the deficit.í
There is no deficit. Itís fresh air. Itís a complete con. And
what has happened, of course -- you just look at the Presidents
of the United States as an example -- you need kookooland
amounts of money to run for President. Who provides that money?
The people that run the banking and business community are the
same people and you get paid by the piper. You dance to his tune
when youíre in office so this legislation has gone on being
passed over the few centuries which allows banks to lend what
they donít have. Very simple example...
Jeff Rense ~ How do you phrase it, David, "Never
did.." Youíve got a great line. The money line. "Never did
exist. Doesnít now."
David Icke ~ Oh yeah. We are up to our necks in debt on
money that has never, does not, and will never exist. And if
anyone doesnít believe that a few people canít control the
world, they should just look at the power we have given these
bankers over the control of our lives. Weíre in a situation
where the politicians have passed legislation that allows banks
to lend fresh air, money they donít have and get rewarded for it
and if you look at the way itís unfolded over the years. It
means because of this turkey shoot idea whereby you create a
boom, you get people into debt, you get governments into debt,
you get individuals and businesses into debt.
And people say, "Oh, itís boom time. Well, Iíll have a bigger
car, bigger house. Weíll have two holidays this year cause
things are going well. I havenít got the money, but things are
going well. Iíll be able to service the debt so weíll just have
a loan." And then businesses say, "Thereís all this kind of
economic activity. People want to buy our products. Thereís lots
of money in circulation. Weíll borrow more from the bank to get
better machinery and then weíll increase production."
at that point the people who put the money into circulation,
take it out again. They stop making as many loans. They make
sure interest rates go up and
the Federal Reserve,
I repeat, has complete control of that. And basically
units of exchange are taken out of circulation. People havenít
got the same amount of money to spend. Economic activity falls.
The demand for products falls. But those loans which have been
taken out during the boom time still have to be serviced and not
only that the interest rates youíre paying on them now are
higher. So people go bankrupt. People lose their money. People
lose their businesses. And the banks get all that wealth that
This boom-bust con which the economists on the big CNN
say, "This is just this point on the economic cycle. Itís very
natural." Itís complete manipulation. It means the real wealth
of the world has been sucked to the top of the pyramid which is
why the real wealth of the world is owned by so few people. And
so weíre in a situation now where weíve given complete control
over whether we have a boom or a bust to a handful of people who
run the global banking system and the global political system
and the transnational corporations.
And I just say to people, "If you think this is all nonsense and
actually money does exist and this is all not happening, then
you try en masse tomorrow morning taking out of the bank what
you theoretically have on deposit. If everyone in the world
tried to take out tomorrow the money they theoretically have on
deposit in the banks theyíd be slamming the doors at half past
nine because they have not got it. And yet thatís the debt that
weíre up to our neck in. And thatís what the third world debt
is. The third world debt which is crucifying
environmentally and in human terms what we call the third world
is debt on money that has never, does not, and will never exist.
Jeff Rense ~ That may be the most insidious of all the
debt structures, what is happening to the third world. I know
people who live in Brazil and are Brazilian tell
me that Brazil is not owned by Brazilians anymore, itís owned by
the transnational corporations.